[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[stonehedge]

Good morning from London fellow Dashers

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[stonehedge]

... especially when I started getting trolled by name here, was with really inspired me to speak out against this crap.

I'm not attacking, I'm trying to understand.  Can you post the quote of the poster who trolled you by name on this thread?

God, that sounds like a pain to find that. I'll see.

I think it was this one, where he was responding to my comments on the dashcoin thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg10708741#msg10708741

I don't think I've ever posted on this thread before that, except maybe once or twice during some BCX drama.

So Stonehedge was commenting here on your posts in the DashCoin thread?  And that was enough to start this rampage?  Seems like overreacting to me.

Wow, I started this?  I thought you would have had thicker skin that that Smooth.  For the record, I stand by what I said in that post. 

I've had Smooth on ignore for a few weeks, only saw this because you quoted him/her.

[oaxaca]

It would be if it were a "rampage". I don't see it that way. I give my opinions, which are frequently disputed, denied or attacked, or responded to by attacking another coin in some non-responsive way.

If opposing views were welcome here and not treated as "trolls" things might go differently. I hate to keep borrowing a term from iCEBREAKER but he's absolute right that attack-the-attacker is the usual MO around here when anyone presents an opposing view.

Furthermore I don't really know that it makes sense to lump together all of the DRK skeptics who are posting here these days (not sure if that's what you meant by rampage either). I certainly don't have any connection with them.

I'm not lumping all the sceptics together.  I'm just having a (hopefully) polite public conversation with you.  As you are aware, there are a variety of opposing views both here and elsewhere.  Some people ask questions.  They mostly get answered.  Some people point out problems.  This can lead in a number of directions.  Some people holler "instamine" a hundred times.  What are we to do with them?

[shojayxt]

I don't normally reply to these... but monero also had distribution problems.  The open source mining code was extremely inefficient, allowing insiders to mine with advantage.

No, it wasn't "insiders" at all, it was an expert computer scientist (dga) and his miner partners, who were able to spend a lot of money and make more money from that, but the overall supply curve was not affected at all. Plenty of other people (including me) were able to mine with the regular miner and still be profitable, which was quite remarkable, but the market was very hot at the time too. It's all well documented (including the non-involvement of the insiders; in fact we were thwarting their efforts as quickly as we could) on his blog somewhere.

EDIT: here:

By the time I got into it, developer "NoodleDoodle" (hey, this is crypto, people can pick whatever names they want -- Satoshi Nakamoto?) had already untwisted the first "de-optimization" with the AES encryption key.  

...

[in comments, in response to a suggestion he was an insider with a special advantage]
This would be a very reasonable thing to assert if I had anything to do with Monero.  I don't.  In fact, to the best of my knowledge, none of the people who profited from early optimized Monero mining had anything to do with crippling the code in the first place.

Think of it this way:  You step in and inherit a legacy codebase for a promising and interesting new cryptocurrency.  You're immediately beset with demands -- fix bugs, release binaries, answer help questions, etc.  In retrospect, it turns out that the code you took over had been de-optimized by its original creators.  Is that your fault?  Of course not.  What's the standard that we should hold the Monero developers to?  To fix any bugs or deliberate weaknesses as fast as they can after they become aware of it.  To get up to speed and review and understand the codebase they inherited as quickly as a reasonable developer can do.

I'm going to back smooth up and validate his claim that it wasn't just insiders.  I mined tons of bitmonero during the first week well  before the name change to monero.  I think there were only a few of us mining.  Noodledoodle, mickeyminer, and myself likely got the most.  I ended up selling what I mined for about 80 btc total in the end.  I sold most of that off when btc was around $600.  I don't have a single monero now but it was the coin that made me love cryptocurrency.  Talk about being in the right coin at the right time.  Nobody was mining it because it wasn't the standard coin.  People looked at it and dismissed it.  I'm glad they did.  

I know for a fact that   thankful_for_today released bitmonero fair.  Some of us mined it but most just ignored it.  What happened after that and the way that they took the coin from thankful_for_today is questionable.  But the launch was fair and the coin was basically ignored while some of us mined it.  It wasn't until the questionable takeover happened and an exchange was made to trade it that the value went crazy.  But as far as the launch is concerned it was a fair launch and anyone had a chance to mine.  

Here's the original bitmonero thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563821.0

[oaxaca]

Wow, I started this?  I thought you would have had thicker skin that that Smooth. 

Good morning Stonehedge.  All is well, Celtic are 5 points clear.  Your DRK is in the bag.

[smooth]

... especially when I started getting trolled by name here, was with really inspired me to speak out against this crap.

I'm not attacking, I'm trying to understand.  Can you post the quote of the poster who trolled you by name on this thread?

God, that sounds like a pain to find that. I'll see.

I think it was this one, where he was responding to my comments on the dashcoin thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg10708741#msg10708741

I don't think I've ever posted on this thread before that, except maybe once or twice during some BCX drama.

So Stonehedge was commenting here on your posts in the DashCoin thread?  And that was enough to start this rampage?  Seems like overreacting to me.

Wow, I started this?  I thought you would have had thicker skin that that Smooth.  For the record, I stand by what I said in that post.  

I've had Smooth on ignore for a few weeks, only saw this because you quoted him/her.

It's not about thick skin or not. Since I've gotten dragged into this cesspool of a scam coin and looked around some more, its looked shadier and shadier. When I didn't really know much other than some vague notion of an instamine and some snake oil anonymity concept called masternodes I was content to mostly ignore it. But now that I've seen what I've seen, I won't be ignoring it.

Quote: "If you see fraud and don't shout fraud, you are a fraud"
   -- Nassim Taleb (author or Black Swan and Anti-fragility; credit to opennux for the quote)

[Majormax]

So, no, this has little to do with XMR vs. DRK to me.

I quite simply don't like how the whitewashing of the instamine continues (especially with the rebrand apparently intended to go after wider markets who probably don't understand that kind of scams that come out of crypto), didn't like the aggressive and arrogant attitude against dashcoin (opened my eyes to how disgusting many of the people who support this coin really are), and don't think the technology is worth much either.

Hmm.  So the "DRK instamine" was just fine with you for a year.  You didn't feel the need to post even once.  Now, it's an all-hands-on-deck alert?

Pretty much. I was aware of the instamine and other scammy dealings here for a while, as they were occasionally mentioned on Monero threads but I generally ignored it, occasionally traded posts with illodin a few times as he can attest. The bashing of dashcoin, and especially when I started getting trolled by name here, was with really inspired me to speak out against this crap.

'Instamine' as it is called, is often a positive. The originators and developers should have a large pool of available funds, otherwise they are undercapitalised. They can continually sell into the market, improving distribution.

Numbers of users and community size is everything, and DRK is amongst the top 10 cryptos for that (probably number 5).

Can you enlighten me as to the fraudlent dealings ? (comparative to other crypto)

The tech is as good as any. Trolls are attracted to any big thread.

[kointrend]

Otohcoin.org

Evening, hope the world of Otoh is doing hunky dory  
I can't resist asking, have you got any immediate plans for further wall extensions in the near future, should we prepare ourselves in the appropriate manner just in case ?  

Evening, many thanks, yep everything in the world of Otoh is always sunny

https://goo.gl/tRvrs

Even when BTer isn't giving me back the CNY/DRK that I requested a withdrawal on 11 days ago as yet

I've had no walls, or even bids, up since the 200 BTC worth at 0.0145 & it's nice to see the price just doing what the market wants with absolutely no input from me at all.

I'm always looking at my hand and the game in general, so could decide to up my bets at any time if it looks good in the moment, but rather than placing lower walls it's more likely to be large buys at market plus walls at the top in this hotter environment, the same as I did last time, if I think that the price has slipped back too far relative to value.

But anything is possible and I won't be sitting on the sidelines for too long I expect

My lord   ...hope the BTer issue is only matter of time. 

[oaxaca]

...snake oil anonymity concept called masternodes...But now that I've seen what I've seen, I won't been ignoring it.

Welcome to my ignore list.

[stonehedge]

Wow, I started this?  I thought you would have had thicker skin that that Smooth. 

Good morning Stonehedge.  All is well, Celtic are 5 points clear.  Your DRK is in the bag.

Thank you so much for that.  Sorry I didnt thank you earlier, was away this weekend with just a mobile for net access and couldn't find your post.

Great idea btw!

[smooth]

Can you enlighten me as to the fraudlent dealings ? (comparative to other crypto)

Comparative to other crypto I have no idea, nor do I particularly care. It bears some vague resemblance to the Bytecoin scam I happen to be familiar with, in that a fake cover story was created in order to "sell" the instamine/premine. Now obviously the details are different. (I don't think anyone here is claiming darkcoin was created by aliens.) In general though, it is totally impractical for me to actively police coin scams. I don't go around examining every coin or other crypto-related scam to see what sort of questionable or outright deceptive practices I can find.

What I come across, I come across.

As for this particular coin, I've addressed it previously on this thread and I will be subscribed here now, so I'll reply on topic as various issues are discussed.

More discussion is on another thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=999886.0

Research continues.

The tech is as good as any.

Not in my opinion nor the option of any credible experts I've discussed it with or heard comment on it. Kristof Atlas's review was mixed at best as I interpret it. No doubt it was/is spun more positively here.

But it doesn't surprise me that no one here is interested in those sorts of things, as you say, comparative to other crypto, not much different. Everybody wants their coin pumped and doesn't want to hear negatives.

[qvan]

... especially when I started getting trolled by name here, was with really inspired me to speak out against this crap.

I'm not attacking, I'm trying to understand.  Can you post the quote of the poster who trolled you by name on this thread?

God, that sounds like a pain to find that. I'll see.

I think it was this one, where he was responding to my comments on the dashcoin thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg10708741#msg10708741

I don't think I've ever posted on this thread before that, except maybe once or twice during some BCX drama.

So Stonehedge was commenting here on your posts in the DashCoin thread?  And that was enough to start this rampage?  Seems like overreacting to me.

It would be if it were a "rampage". I don't see it that way. I give my opinions, which are frequently disputed, denied or attacked, or responded to by attacking another coin in some non-responsive way.

If opposing views were welcome here and not treated as "trolls" things might go differently. I hate to keep borrowing a term from iCEBREAKER but he's absolute right that attack-the-attacker is the usual MO around here when anyone presents an opposing view.

Furthermore I don't really know that it makes sense to lump together all of the DRK skeptics who are posting here these days (not sure if that's what you meant by rampage either). I certainly don't have any connection with them.

Greed can make people irrational especially when you are holding some heavy DRK bags  

[illodin]

When for a long time your life revolves around one thing only, and you are consumed by it 24/7, every little issue can grow to massive proportions. Meditate on that, and you'll gain some perspective on how the general public will really feel about an "instamine".

[smooth]

When for a long time your life revolves around one thing only, and you are consumed by it 24/7, every little issue can grow to massive proportions. Meditate on that, and you'll gain some perspective on how the general public will really feel about an "instamine".

You're delusional or pumping (or both) if you believe this coin is anywhere remotely near "the general public." The likelihood that ever happens is remote as well.

However, its entirely possible that whether a coin is tainted by a fraudulent or at best questionable history will make a (necessarily small) difference to whether that happens.

[JGCMiner]

...snake oil anonymity concept called masternodes...But now that I've seen what I've seen, I won't been ignoring it.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Not sure why you where trying to reason with him anyway. He keeps calling this coin a scam yet I still can't figure out who has been scammed. Where are the undelivered upon promises, the tech that doesn't work like it should, the promised returns that never pan out... I see none of that here. Oh, right... in the future the dev team is supposed to dump on our heads when they held all the way up to $15 and continued development as we fell back down to $1.

And for DRK/DASH supposedly having crap anonymity nobody has traced a transaction even though any big Monero investor has an obvious motive to break our system.

Give me the dev team that continues to push out new tech over the one that stoops to the level of crapping in other coins threads.

[shojayxt]

...snake oil anonymity concept called masternodes...But now that I've seen what I've seen, I won't been ignoring it.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Not sure why you where trying to reason with him anyway. He keeps calling this coin a scam yet I still can't figure out who has been scammed. Where are the undelivered upon promises, the tech that doesn't work like it should, the promised returns that never pan out... I see none of that here. Oh, right... in the future the dev team is supposed to dump on our heads when they held all the way up to $15 and continued development as we fell back down to $1.

And for DRK/DASH supposedly having crap anonymity nobody has traced an transaction even though any big Monero investor has an obvious motive to break our system.

Give me the dev team that continues to push out new tech over the one that stoops to the level of crapping in other coins threads.

When it was $15 there were plenty of people dumping.  Mostly people that had been holding for some time.  They made a fortune.

[Sub-Ether]

Otohcoin.org

Evening, hope the world of Otoh is doing hunky dory 
I can't resist asking, have you got any immediate plans for further wall extensions in the near future, should we prepare ourselves in the appropriate manner just in case ? 

Evening, many thanks, yep everything in the world of Otoh is always sunny

https://goo.gl/tRvrs

Even when BTer isn't giving me back the CNY/DRK that I requested a withdrawal on 11 days ago as yet

I've had no walls, or even bids, up since the 200 BTC worth at 0.0145 & it's nice to see the price just doing what the market wants with absolutely no input from me at all.

I'm always looking at my hand and the game in general, so could decide to up my bets at any time if it looks good in the moment, but rather than placing lower walls it's more likely to be large buys at market plus walls at the top in this hotter environment, the same as I did last time, if I think that the price has slipped back too far relative to value.

But anything is possible and I won't be sitting on the sidelines for too long I expect

Glad you doing well,thanks for your market update I didn't realize bter still aren't paying out, I lost trust and stopped using them after the hack, was wondering if people got their btc back also ?

P.S. Nancy has great screen presence-what class, a different era altogether (compared to Lady Gaga or Christine Aguilara, I mean really?!). 'My boots are made for walking' does it for me  
https://youtu.be/PCoCVYrJWYU

[Sub-Ether]

Good morning from London fellow Dashers

And good morning from Peak District poor Northerners 

[toknormal]

I don't see it that way. I give my opinions

Is that what you call them ?

I'd call it the petulant wailing of a highly conflicted troll who thinks that burying a perfectly good technology in cryptographic 'tar' somehow equates to making it more funginble and who can't see for red mist when he looses the argument with the market.

[smooth]

...snake oil anonymity concept called masternodes...But now that I've seen what I've seen, I won't been ignoring it.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Not sure why you where trying to reason with him anyway. He keeps calling this coin a scam yet I still can't figure out who has been scammed. Where are the undelivered upon promises, the tech that doesn't work like it should, the promised returns that never pan out... I see none of that here. Oh, right... in the future the dev team is supposed to dump on our heads when they held all the way up to $15 and continued development as we fell back down to $1.

And for DRK/DASH supposedly having crap anonymity nobody has traced an transaction even though any big Monero investor has an obvious motive to break our system.

Give me the dev team that continues to push out new tech over the one that stoops to the level of crapping in other coins threads.

When it was $15 there were plenty of people dumping.  Mostly people that had been holding for some time.  They made a fortune.

Let's see. You start with 2 million coins you got for nothing. You hold to $15 and dump say 100K coins to take a little bit (i.e. $1.5M) off the table and hold the rest (i.e. 1.9 million coins) for a bigger (or at least another) pump later. Maybe buy back lower, but probably not.

Sounds like a pretty good gig to me.