[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[eltito]

Can someone please rebut this, or at least parts of it? It keeps getting mentioned in IRC and trollboxes, apparently smart people are believing it and I can't find any counterproof to point to.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Altcoin#Application_Built_on_top_Of_Cryptocurrency

Bitcoin is a lot like HTTP. It is an application layer protocol and tools can be built on it (like websites can be built on HTTP). There is a class of cryptocurrencies that promise features like casino websites and exchanges and anonymity protocols to be built on top of them.

When creating a new website, one doesn't make a new protocol unless it is necessary. For example, HTTPS is an encrypted version of HTTP, therefore it is useful and necessary. When creating an app such as "DarkSend", one doesn't need to make a new protocol such as "Darkcoin". This is synonymous to making an HTTPS alternative (eg. HTTPSX) for your new website for encrypted chat and not adding any new security or functionality to HTTPSX.

Because Darkcoin is by far the most popular cryptocurrency of this class, the Darkcoin example will be covered in this section.

The Darkcoin devs created a tool called DarkSend. DarkSend is an implementation of coinjoin (an anonymity feature originally implemented in Bitcoin[4]) which utilizes the Darkcoin network to organize the coinjoins. If DarkSend becomes open source and is useful, it will be ported to Bitcoin with a few small modifications. Currently DarkSend masternodes are paid 10% of the block reward after they hold 1000DRK in order to become a masternode.[5] This is flawed because while purchasing 1000DRK is trustlessly verifiable, a user running a DarkSend masternode isn't trustlessly verifiable. It is also costs bandwidth to run a masternode, therefore there is an incentive to buy 1000DRK and get a chance at the 10% block reward masternodes are being paid, but not actually act as a masternode. For this reason, DarkSend would work better if the masternodes were paid by those they were helping coinjoin, or if there wasn't a masternode at all and everyone collaborated in a decentralized fashion. The better implementation not vulnerable to the attack described is compatible with Bitcoin, therefore, the Darksend protocol serves no purpose.

It looks like they think that it's possible to fool the network by creating a masternode that doesn't actually function as a masternode in order to collect masternode payments that you didn't earn.

The collateral payment scheme built into the system prevents this, they appear to simply be ignorant of its existence.  It actually costs you money to act in this fashion.

[Ozziecoin]

Well, I believe Darkcoin's privacy implementation is technically superior to Litecoin's, which is zero! LOL

But I also think Darkcoin's protocol is technically superior to bitcoin's from a purely privacy perspective.

So yeah, I think Darkcoin should most definitely overtake litecoin (and eventually bitcoin if the bitcoin devs don't roll out a proper privacy implementation).

do u think bitcoin will try to be anonymous? i can tell u now it will not be, any coin with anonymous transactions goverment will ban asap, using it in stores will be illegal, black market will grow and u think any goverment will let it go?

Let them ban Darkcoin.  LOL.  I see P2P still flourishes.  People have a right to privacy and the presumption of innocence.  These are key elements to Democratic systems.

[oblox]

I don't see bitcoin forking again (security flaws excluded). Look at the last time it forked what happened.

[techsolution]

Well, I believe Darkcoin's privacy implementation is technically superior to Litecoin's, which is zero! LOL

But I also think Darkcoin's protocol is technically superior to bitcoin's from a purely privacy perspective.

So yeah, I think Darkcoin should most definitely overtake litecoin (and eventually bitcoin if the bitcoin devs don't roll out a proper privacy implementation).

do u think bitcoin will try to be anonymous? i can tell u now it will not be, any coin with anonymous transactions goverment will ban asap, using it in stores will be illegal, black market will grow and u think any goverment will let it go?

Cash is anonymous, have they banned cash transactions?

So try to get cash from country to country, like from Germany to Switzerland, try to buy drugs for cash with no fear, always u leave something they can truck u, u r not anonymous anytime in this world: cameras, chips on credit cards, and u think anonymous cryptocoin will be left and shady people will have paradise? Personally i think, technical news in cryptos are perfect, but in this controlled world nobody will let u be anonymous.
Somebody can pay for killer for his job and what? Terrorists can use it as transfering money and what? If u have and invested in DRK maybe u dont care, but other especially gov will care about that. Sorry, but there is no anonymous transaction and there will not to be. Look at this from the law side, any country law. It would be good if all people globally were honest and good.

[Ozziecoin]

So try to get cash from country to country, like from Germany to Switzerland, try to buy drugs for cash with no fear, always u leave something they can truck u, u r not anonymous anytime in this world: cameras, chips on credit cards, and u think anonymous cryptocoin will be left and shady people will have paradise? Personally i think, technical news in cryptos are perfect, but in this controlled world nobody will let u be anonymous.
Somebody can pay for killer for his job and what? Terrorists can use it as transfering money and what? If u have and invested in DRK maybe u dont care, but other especially gov will care about that. Sorry, but there is no anonymous transaction and there will not to be. Look at this from the law side, any country law. It would be good if all people globally were honest and good.

You're making the FUNDAMENTAL error of ASSUMING it is POSSIBLE to ban Darkcoin.

[thelonecrouton]

Well, I believe Darkcoin's privacy implementation is technically superior to Litecoin's, which is zero! LOL

But I also think Darkcoin's protocol is technically superior to bitcoin's from a purely privacy perspective.

So yeah, I think Darkcoin should most definitely overtake litecoin (and eventually bitcoin if the bitcoin devs don't roll out a proper privacy implementation).

do u think bitcoin will try to be anonymous? i can tell u now it will not be, any coin with anonymous transactions goverment will ban asap, using it in stores will be illegal, black market will grow and u think any goverment will let it go?

Cash is anonymous, have they banned cash transactions?

So try to get cash from country to country, like from Germany to Switzerland, try to buy drugs for cash with no fear, always u leave something they can truck u, u r not anonymous anytime in this world: cameras, chips on credit cards, and u think anonymous cryptocoin will be left and shady people will have paradise? Personally i think, technical news in cryptos are perfect, but in this controlled world nobody will let u be anonymous.
Somebody can pay for killer for his job and what? Terrorists can use it as transfering money and what? If u have and invested in DRK maybe u dont care, but other especially gov will care about that. Sorry, but there is no anonymous transaction and there will not to be. Look at this from the law side, any country law. It would be good if all people globally were honest and good.

Darkcoin by itself isn't going to make you perfectly anonymous in every conceivable way, and the world isn't perfect.

 No shit.  

You sound like the guy a few hundred pages back who said that Darkcoin was inferior to wearing a hat and shades for your privacy.

[techsolution]

Well, I believe Darkcoin's privacy implementation is technically superior to Litecoin's, which is zero! LOL

But I also think Darkcoin's protocol is technically superior to bitcoin's from a purely privacy perspective.

So yeah, I think Darkcoin should most definitely overtake litecoin (and eventually bitcoin if the bitcoin devs don't roll out a proper privacy implementation).

do u think bitcoin will try to be anonymous? i can tell u now it will not be, any coin with anonymous transactions goverment will ban asap, using it in stores will be illegal, black market will grow and u think any goverment will let it go?

The rich and powerful will welcome anonymous transactions the most, they don't give a damn what the little people do with their crumbs.

And Darkcoin is perfect for businesses because it lets them keep their business private, unlike bitcoin, which is why, after years, so few businesses will touch bitcoin.

So crypto idea is to favore shady people? If I have nothing to hide why should i use it? Darksend is made for people who has somethink to hide? All says goverment still money and now u say rich and powerfull will be happy? So u are happy they will be happy?

[coins101]

Well, I believe Darkcoin's privacy implementation is technically superior to Litecoin's, which is zero! LOL

But I also think Darkcoin's protocol is technically superior to bitcoin's from a purely privacy perspective.

So yeah, I think Darkcoin should most definitely overtake litecoin (and eventually bitcoin if the bitcoin devs don't roll out a proper privacy implementation).

do u think bitcoin will try to be anonymous? i can tell u now it will not be, any coin with anonymous transactions goverment will ban asap, using it in stores will be illegal, black market will grow and u think any goverment will let it go?

Cash is anonymous, have they banned cash transactions?

So try to get cash from country to country, like from Germany to Switzerland, try to buy drugs for cash with no fear, always u leave something they can truck u, u r not anonymous anytime in this world: cameras, chips on credit cards, and u think anonymous cryptocoin will be left and shady people will have paradise? Personally i think, technical news in cryptos are perfect, but in this controlled world nobody will let u be anonymous.
Somebody can pay for killer for his job and what? Terrorists can use it as transfering money and what? If u have and invested in DRK maybe u dont care, but other especially gov will care about that. Sorry, but there is no anonymous transaction and there will not to be. Look at this from the law side, any country law. It would be good if all people globally were honest and good.

The US government has been asked about anonymous digital coins, and they have said its ok

Commenting on anonymity within crypto currencies, Jennifer Shasky Calvery, Director, Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, United States Department of the Treasury, confirms that financial privacy is a real an important aspect of all financial transactions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7bbDpwlTws&feature=youtu.be&t=11m48s

~12mins

Also, have you considered that governments might actually want to use DarkSend? How do you think they pay for international expenditure? Remember the Iraq war where the USA was sending bags and bags of $billions to give to locals to fight, pay-off and reward bounties? Now they can just go to Mintpal and buy a few million Darkcoins and get the job done in seconds.

[techsolution]

Well, I believe Darkcoin's privacy implementation is technically superior to Litecoin's, which is zero! LOL

But I also think Darkcoin's protocol is technically superior to bitcoin's from a purely privacy perspective.

So yeah, I think Darkcoin should most definitely overtake litecoin (and eventually bitcoin if the bitcoin devs don't roll out a proper privacy implementation).

do u think bitcoin will try to be anonymous? i can tell u now it will not be, any coin with anonymous transactions goverment will ban asap, using it in stores will be illegal, black market will grow and u think any goverment will let it go?

Let them ban Darkcoin.  LOL.  I see P2P still flourishes.  People have a right to privacy and the presumption of innocence.  These are key elements to Democratic systems.

Yes, i agree, but how can u be sure only good people will use it, mostly people who has something to hide try to make it anonymous:)

[t3a]

It won't. It requires a hard fork and Bitcoin will not hard fork for DarkSend, nor jeopardize regulation issues.

It doesn't require a hardfork if the coinjoin organizers aren't paid by block reward, but instead by those they are coinjoining for. Or better yet, it would be decentralized and no one would be paid at all.

Misbehaving nodes don't get payment. So false.

The reason PoW works so well is because you can prove it. You can say "hey, here is the block header I have and here is it's hash. As you can see, it's hash is below the target, therefore I have created a block".

Coinjoin organization is a series of messages. You could (A) have a central authority see if the masternode is facilitating coinjoins and keep a log of behaving masternodes, or you could (B) just trust that the miner is right about whether the masternode was behaving at block X, or you could (C) trust your peers. Option A invokes trust in a central authority, option B allows miners to pay themselves (assuming they're operating as a masternode) every time and option C opens you up to sybil.

TL;DR PoR is an oxymoron because you can't construct a proof that you are offering a resource.

[coins101]

Well, I believe Darkcoin's privacy implementation is technically superior to Litecoin's, which is zero! LOL

But I also think Darkcoin's protocol is technically superior to bitcoin's from a purely privacy perspective.

So yeah, I think Darkcoin should most definitely overtake litecoin (and eventually bitcoin if the bitcoin devs don't roll out a proper privacy implementation).

do u think bitcoin will try to be anonymous? i can tell u now it will not be, any coin with anonymous transactions goverment will ban asap, using it in stores will be illegal, black market will grow and u think any goverment will let it go?

Let them ban Darkcoin.  LOL.  I see P2P still flourishes.  People have a right to privacy and the presumption of innocence.  These are key elements to Democratic systems.

Yes, i agree, but how can u be sure only good people will use it, mostly people who has something to hide try to make it anonymous:)

Show me your bank balance, and how much you get paid by your employer.

[Kai Proctor]

So crypto idea is to favore shady people? If I have nothing to hide why should i use it? Darksend is made for people who has somethink to hide? All says goverment still money and now u say rich and powerfull will be happy? So u are happy they will be happy?

You like the privacy of your home, yet you are not hiding to do something illegal. Here you go.

[Ozziecoin]

do u think bitcoin will try to be anonymous? i can tell u now it will not be, any coin with anonymous transactions goverment will ban asap, using it in stores will be illegal, black market will grow and u think any goverment will let it go?

Let them ban Darkcoin.  LOL.  I see P2P still flourishes.  People have a right to privacy and the presumption of innocence.  These are key elements to Democratic systems.

Yes, i agree, but how can u be sure only good people will use it, mostly people who has something to hide try to make it anonymous:)

We can't make sure of anything.  That is not the role of money.  Moreover, bad things are happening in the world everyday.  Let the wheat be separated from the chaff on judgement day.

[fearcoka]

Ok lets clear something here fellas.

I think the concept is good but the gov will not buy a few million Darkcoins...

They will copy the logistics behind it and implement it in todays world.

What we should be working on is this system but for actual money.

Paypal - Amazon purchases, Ebay etc.

Transactions made by a software using this anonymous ideology or something like that.

[Ozziecoin]

Ok lets clear something here fellas.

I think the concept is good but the gov will not buy a few million Darkcoins...

They will copy the logistics behind it and implement it in todays world.

What we should be working on is this system but for actual money.

Paypal - Amazon purchases, Ebay etc.

Transactions made by a software using this anonymous ideology or something like that.

Ummm, darkcoin IS money.

[techsolution]

Well, I believe Darkcoin's privacy implementation is technically superior to Litecoin's, which is zero! LOL

But I also think Darkcoin's protocol is technically superior to bitcoin's from a purely privacy perspective.

So yeah, I think Darkcoin should most definitely overtake litecoin (and eventually bitcoin if the bitcoin devs don't roll out a proper privacy implementation).

do u think bitcoin will try to be anonymous? i can tell u now it will not be, any coin with anonymous transactions goverment will ban asap, using it in stores will be illegal, black market will grow and u think any goverment will let it go?

Cash is anonymous, have they banned cash transactions?

So try to get cash from country to country, like from Germany to Switzerland, try to buy drugs for cash with no fear, always u leave something they can truck u, u r not anonymous anytime in this world: cameras, chips on credit cards, and u think anonymous cryptocoin will be left and shady people will have paradise? Personally i think, technical news in cryptos are perfect, but in this controlled world nobody will let u be anonymous.
Somebody can pay for killer for his job and what? Terrorists can use it as transfering money and what? If u have and invested in DRK maybe u dont care, but other especially gov will care about that. Sorry, but there is no anonymous transaction and there will not to be. Look at this from the law side, any country law. It would be good if all people globally were honest and good.

Darkcoin by itself isn't going to make you perfectly anonymous in every conceivable way, and the world isn't perfect.

 No shit.  

You sound like the guy a few hundred pages back who said that Darkcoin was inferior to wearing a hat and shades for your privacy.

Sorry but i am not this guy, but can tell u one, maybe it will bring more cash, but will make more easy to do bad things, because as u said world is not perfect, dont u think darkcoin is only special because of anonymous transaction? Nobody will track u if u use crypto without it if u will be ok, they track it in case like silkroad etc

[Kai Proctor]

Yes, i agree, but how can u be sure only good people will use it, mostly people who has something to hide try to make it anonymous:)

How a government can be absolutely sure that cash is not used for illegal purposes ?

[techsolution]

Well, I believe Darkcoin's privacy implementation is technically superior to Litecoin's, which is zero! LOL

But I also think Darkcoin's protocol is technically superior to bitcoin's from a purely privacy perspective.

So yeah, I think Darkcoin should most definitely overtake litecoin (and eventually bitcoin if the bitcoin devs don't roll out a proper privacy implementation).

do u think bitcoin will try to be anonymous? i can tell u now it will not be, any coin with anonymous transactions goverment will ban asap, using it in stores will be illegal, black market will grow and u think any goverment will let it go?

Cash is anonymous, have they banned cash transactions?

So try to get cash from country to country, like from Germany to Switzerland, try to buy drugs for cash with no fear, always u leave something they can truck u, u r not anonymous anytime in this world: cameras, chips on credit cards, and u think anonymous cryptocoin will be left and shady people will have paradise? Personally i think, technical news in cryptos are perfect, but in this controlled world nobody will let u be anonymous.
Somebody can pay for killer for his job and what? Terrorists can use it as transfering money and what? If u have and invested in DRK maybe u dont care, but other especially gov will care about that. Sorry, but there is no anonymous transaction and there will not to be. Look at this from the law side, any country law. It would be good if all people globally were honest and good.

The US government has been asked about anonymous digital coins, and they have said its ok

Commenting on anonymity within crypto currencies, Jennifer Shasky Calvery, Director, Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, United States Department of the Treasury, confirms that financial privacy is a real an important aspect of all financial transactions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7bbDpwlTws&feature=youtu.be&t=11m48s

~12mins

Also, have you considered that governments might actually want to use DarkSend? How do you think they pay for international expenditure? Remember the Iraq war where the USA was sending bags and bags of $billions to give to locals to fight, pay-off and reward bounties? Now they can just go to Mintpal and buy a few million Darkcoins and get the job done in seconds.

ok, so darksend is helpfull to make shady goverment transactions, great for crypto:)

[Ozziecoin]

Sorry but i am not this guy, but can tell u one, maybe it will bring more cash, but will make more easy to do bad things, because as u said world is not perfect, dont u think darkcoin is only special because of anonymous transaction? Nobody will track u if u use crypto without it if u will be ok, they track it in case like silkroad etc

Let them track. If people are doing wrong things then they should be caught. Darkcoin is money. That's it. I will not be using it for anything illegal.

[eltito]

Yes, i agree, but how can u be sure only good people will use it, mostly people who has something to hide try to make it anonymous:)

What are you the gestapo?  This sort of thinking is a sickness, IMHO.  I don't have anything to hide either, but that doesn't mean I want you or anyone else - especially the government - in my business.  It simply doesn't concern you (or them) and that is the only justification I need.