[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[D05GTO]

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[naxin]

This also completely ignores the concept of pruning old transactions, which can be done if need be.

Is there a consensus that pruning is actually possible and doable?

Yes. Transactions which have had all outputs spent and have had ? transactions past them are no longer needed to be stored.

Speaking about the competition (a lot) gives it importance.

If that is the attitude darkcoin wants to have, we might as well give up now. In general, pretending competition doesn't exist results in one thing, and one thing only. Absolute failure.

That's not the attitude of Darkcoin, that's my opinion. And when I say "speaking" read "criticizing" don't twist it.

Im with you on that, reading about xyz coin on the darkcoin thread is getting really annoying, can we please just focus, its really great that all the other coins are doing this and that .. there has been a whole lot of discussion about every anon coin out there, but really ? Why post it here, Isint it enough already. If I would want to check it out I would go to theyr thread to read up on it.

Concerning the FUD, I agree. However given the novelty of anonymous coins, having a constructive conversation of the tech behind competitors is critical to ensure the long term strength of darkcoin. Unfortunately that doesn't happen, because most of the conversation is worthless FUD, and is incredibly annoying. But what isn't FUD typically is shot down immediately by posts like this, which is incredibly unfortunate. If better technology is implemented by someone else, it shouldn't go overlooked because people weren't willing to discuss it.

[Icebucket]

This also completely ignores the concept of pruning old transactions, which can be done if need be.

Is there a consensus that pruning is actually possible and doable?

Yes. Transactions which have had all outputs spent and have had ? transactions past them are no longer needed to be stored.

Speaking about the competition (a lot) gives it importance.

If that is the attitude darkcoin wants to have, we might as well give up now. In general, pretending competition doesn't exist results in one thing, and one thing only. Absolute failure.

That's not the attitude of Darkcoin, that's my opinion. And when I say "speaking" read "criticizing" don't twist it.

Im with you on that, reading about xyz coin on the darkcoin thread is getting really annoying, can we please just focus, its really great that all the other coins are doing this and that .. there has been a whole lot of discussion about every anon coin out there, but really ? Why post it here, Isint it enough already. If I would want to check it out I would go to theyr thread to read up on it.

Concerning the FUD, I agree. However given the novelty of anonymous coins, having a constructive conversation of the tech behind competitors is critical to ensure the long term strength of darkcoin. Unfortunately that doesn't happen, because most of the conversation is worthless FUD, and is incredibly annoying. But what isn't FUD typically is shot down immediately by posts like this, which is incredibly unfortunate. If better technology is implemented by someone else, it shouldn't go overlooked because people weren't willing to discuss it.

If you read the last 1200 pages then you will see that we are more than willing to discuss the tech behind every other coin. Just me personally think that we could use our time better by finding some creative solutions to darkcoin rather than debate what xyz coin is doing.

[AlexGR]

In general, pretending competition doesn't exist results in one thing, and one thing only. Absolute failure.

Evan is aware of how the "game" is played. If you have a weakness, others will capitalize on it and say "ohh but Darkcoin is this or that but we are sooooo much better on that"... so you want to be able to maintain your lead.

In terms of anonymity we'll need strong IP obfuscation + encrypted communication, enhancements that -if possible- disallow the node from knowing what's going on or from where the original requests came from, and superior management of change to prevent linking after a future spend.

The denomination pools solve a problem on how inputs seem alike and thus are more resistant to analysis (as evidenced with the article analyzing coinjoins with different amounts of input) yet present an issue on requiring more money than one wants to send which could be an issue on larger amounts as was discussed a couple of months ago.

May I suggest a further mode of mixing, "scheduled mixing" at something like "the Dark Moment" / "Dark Hour" etc... it'll be like you leave the wallet open and it will activate a time delayed transaction at the nearest "Dark Moment"... this could be two times per day or four times per day (03:00 / 09:00 / 15:00 / 21:00), in which a lot of accumulated transactions will take place simultaneously. This will allow for more mixing due to larger volume. This could also be programmed in a different scheduled way in which parties will mix only if there is interest from at least another 5-10-15 parties. So a queue is formed and when the seats are taken the mixing occurs.

Concerning the FUD, I agree. However given the novelty of anonymous coins, having a constructive conversation of the tech behind competitors is critical to ensure the long term strength of darkcoin. Unfortunately that doesn't happen, because most of the conversation is worthless FUD, and is incredibly annoying. But what isn't FUD typically is shot down immediately by posts like this, which is incredibly unfortunate. If better technology is implemented by someone else, it shouldn't go overlooked because people weren't willing to discuss it.

The competition is pretty lame as it is, but DRK should not in any way "bank" on the failure of others. It must rely on doing its own thing and excelling on it.

As for the scaling issues of CN coins, it's not FUD, it's reality. The scaling is not only in terms of blockchain size, but also of speed and ram use of the client. Some aspects are been worked but others seem to be DOA. Should that be something that DRK can "bank" on? No. The incompetence of others is not our business - it's the market's business to avoid them and choose DRK, while DRK works to provide the best anonymity possible.

[hashnine]

FUD suck

i lost my fucking reputation to trying to bring the peace between DRK and XC.

The most part of the peoples is stupid.... when the bad peoples will be killed by good peoples the world will be better.

I hope the most part of the peoples will die soon because i'm tired 

 

[oblox]

Screw the indicator talk, I'm digging the 4hr ascending triangle with breakout above 182.

[toknormal]

jeez..Spain trounced.

[Coinasaur]

Should change the title of thread. DRK doesnt have working anon. So after today is is definitely NOT the first anon coin

true anonymity enhancements late July .  

Also heard that the darksend feature transactions have been successfully traced, I can find the link somewhere easily. Late July is too long of a time frame in the crypto world. Thousands of new features will be implemented by then and this will be old hat.

Should change the title of thread. DRK doesnt have working anon. So after today is is definitely NOT the first anon coin

Oh really? Do explain.

what is to prevent someone whos running a node to make off with the mixer coins? what if they dont know enough about security? what if they just plain stop giving a shit? There are so many possibilities that could go wrong by trusting that many people with the entire basis of the coins theory.

Plus you cant forget the fact that the Dev can instamine any random amount he chooses at any time, but Im sure youll just call this FUD. I actually hold a few hundred DRK but I know their claims are all just hype and they are not delivering anything original in a speed that will keep DRK relevant.

[toknormal]

Screw the indicator talk, I'm digging the 4hr ascending triangle with breakout above 182.

Yes, I agree.

182 is a key resistance level. In fact the 4 hours chart is a kind of carbon copy of this one...http://nicknasad.whotrades.com/blog/43640817527

[toknormal]

There are so many possibilities that could go wrong by trusting that many people with the entire basis of the coins theory

You mean like entrusting the integrity of the entire Bitcoin network to a morass of Tom Dick & Harry's running CGminer on their home PC's  

[Coinasaur]

There are so many possibilities that could go wrong by trusting that many people with the entire basis of the coins theory

You mean like entrusting the integrity of the entire Bitcoin network to a morass of Tom Dick & Harry's running CGminer on their home PC's  

if you think that is what holds up the BTC network then you guys know less than I thought. 90% of the network (likely more) is major mining firms and ASIC manufacturers testing their new products until they are no longer profitable. Perhaps the first year that was true, but they weren't "tom dick and harry" they were people in the technological "know" that knew this was something game changing.  THAT is what holds up the BTC network, my friend
EDIT: also, miners cant steal or cause a major problem if they decide to go away or screw with the system maliciously. How do we know that one node host cant just change some code on his node and fuck up the entire system?

[Icebucket]

Also heard that the darksend feature transactions have been successfully traced, I can find the link somewhere easily. Late July is too long of a time frame in the crypto world. Thousands of new features will be implemented by then and this will be old hat.

Please share the link if you are claiming this

[illodin]

what is to prevent someone whos running a node to make off with the mixer coins?

How do we know that one node host cant just change some code on his node and fuck up the entire system?

Because the system is trustless by design.

Plus you cant forget the fact that the Dev can instamine any random amount he chooses at any time, but Im sure youll just call this FUD.

Dunno should I cry or lol.

[toknormal]

if you think that is what holds up the BTC network then you guys know less than I thought. 90% of the network (likely more) is major mining firms and ASIC manufacturers testing their new products until they are no longer profitable. Perhaps the first year that was true, but they weren't "tom dick and harry" they were people in the technological "know" that knew this was something game changing.  THAT is what holds up the BTC network, my friend

The point isn't whether they're kids in their bedrooms or exotic mining firms. The point is that they are all uncontrolled third parties. ALL crypto currency networks are maintained by uncontrolled third parties - that's inherent in the term "decentralised".

I think what you're trying to say in a kind of roundabout way is that there is less redundancy in a heterogeneous network than a homogeneous one. That is certainly true but it isn't a showstopper, particularly when that heterogeneity is supporting a network-specific service.

I think it all depends on the implementation. It might be a weakness, on the other hand it might be very bullet proof. Look at the myriad of client-server or peer-to-peer applications on the internet that are very stable despite being "operated" under a wide range of hosting environments and end users.

I don't know enough about the master node implementation to know what its strengths and weaknesses are - I suspect you don't either. But the software should be robust enough to tolerate "what if they dont know enough about security?" and  "what if they just plain stop giving a shit?" scenarios 100 times over just like any critical network software should be.

At any rate, we're soon going to find out because it's going live in a week so you'll be able to observe it in action.

[Kai Proctor]

what is to prevent someone whos running a node to make off with the mixer coins? [...]

[...]

Thanks for the questions. It does seem like you're missing something. Although, it might not be your fault. The whitepaper is definitely out of date. We've done a lot of work at tweaking the trust model so that it can't be exploited. I'll try to explain how it works briefly, then hopefully if I get time I can revisit the whitepaper soon.

- Masternodes don't have any power over the transactions. They just coordinate the signing. All parties must sign in order for the transaction to be valid. So there's no way to cheat and take the money.
- Users submit collateral. At a later phase if a user doesn't provide the signature as agreed, the transaction will fail. Without colateral this could be done over and over bringing the system to a halt.
- Masternodes have the ability to take the collateral transaction if they wish, but it's paid to the bounty fund. So it doesn't benefit them, it just benefits the community. This removed the incentive to cheat and take the money.

There's no relying on pools at all anymore. Payments to masternodes are done with a voting system embedded into the blockchain. It would take 51% of the mining power to pay the wrong masternode, or another party (because the last few miners to solve blocks must agree on who should be paid)

Transaction currently require 3 parties to be created, so there's a short wait. There are no fake transactions to make that quicker, although this could be done. There's usually 5 or so transaction per 2.5 minutes, so the network should be able to function pretty efficiently under these requirements.

Hoping that helps . Thanks,

Evan

Something to add to the FAQ.

[phzi]

Also heard that the darksend feature transactions have been successfully traced, I can find the link somewhere easily. Late July is too long of a time frame in the crypto world. Thousands of new features will be implemented by then and this will be old hat.

Please share the link if you are claiming this

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/deanonymization-of-coinjoin-article.1183/

http://www.coindesk.com/blockchains-sharedcoin-users-can-identified-says-security-expert/

Lots of info around about this, but that should get you started.  DarkSend-style mixing isn't anonymous unless you use it very careful (which is exactly like bitcoin).

[illodin]

Also heard that the darksend feature transactions have been successfully traced, I can find the link somewhere easily. Late July is too long of a time frame in the crypto world. Thousands of new features will be implemented by then and this will be old hat.

Please share the link if you are claiming this

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/deanonymization-of-coinjoin-article.1183/

http://www.coindesk.com/blockchains-sharedcoin-users-can-identified-says-security-expert/

Lots of info around about this, but that should get you started.  DarkSend-style mixing isn't anonymous unless you use it very careful (which is exactly like bitcoin).

But those don't apply to darksend.

[phzi]

Because the system is trustless by design.

"Trustless"... "Closed-Source"... I must be missing something (or wait... that's you.)

[phzi]

But those don't apply to darksend.

DarkSend is a variant of CoinJoin, using a new scheme of centralized mixing nodes.  It does apply.

[ddink7]

But those don't apply to darksend.

DarkSend is a variant of CoinJoin, using a new scheme of centralized mixing nodes.  It does apply.

Oh good, you've seen the source code and gone through it. Very impressive.

How about that other link, where the author of that report, when asked if it applied to Darkcoin, said "Probably not."