[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[camosoul]

Camo I value your opinion and appreciate the response.

I see POW as a giant waste of resources, and a remnant of networks needs from the PAST. I can see why POW brings value to coins that aren't blessed with a MN network. We trust MN network to denom our coins and sign transactions, but we can't trust it create blocks? I see value in the hybrid solution, but it seems like a much less elegant solution. Think of the security gains of having a perfectly distributed block generation between 900-3000 actors. It just seems to me like POW is a remnant from past times and not necessary for us.

Your view suits you, but it isn't a big-picture view. It concerns only that which you hold valuable.

Many people who live in the city see my way of life and backwards and stupid simply because they are so detached from reality that they have no idea that people like me are the reason they're alive. Without me and my way of life, none of the stuff they take for granted and mooch off of would even exist. There are very, very good reasons why PoW should never be done away with. "Anybody can contribute" is the top of the list. It allows anyone to put in hashpower and be a part of why it can't fail, and they get something back for their trouble. If they don't want to, they can run a MN instead. It's important for  people on one side of the hybrid proof not to get too arrogant and forget that they wouldn't exist without the other. We could use any single proof system, but that will never be as good as a combination of proof systems working together, even if they are vestigial and artificial in nature.

It's software, the whole thing is made up and not real. I just trapped a squirrel. It's gonna be nummy. Cruel? Backwards? Barbaric? Not full of chemicals and hormones, tastes awesome, didn't burn gas driving to a store, didn't spend any money, can use the guts to setline me some catfish, use the catfish guts as bait for... You can easily find ways to knock something, but that ignores the upsides... Just because you don't do it or you don't like it or you can't understand it, doesn't mean it's bad or worthless. I wouldn't expect many people to hunt squirrel with a shotgun in the inner city... So, the lack of experience begets a lack of understanding. You're always expending resources, it's just a matter of where you get them and if you waste them. Waste not, want not... I was homeless a few years ago, now everything is paid for. What backwards hillbilly am I, while all the fools I shared the street with are still homeless or dead... Apartment dwellers are still barely making it month-to-month, making excuses why it's everyone else's fault...

Don't walk away from something that works just because you can't/won't figure out how to leverage it. PoW is brutality paradox genius and should always exist, it's a "damn nature, you scary" way of doing things that many people just won't understand because they're too detached from the truth; humanity is the lowest animal. Mining takes greed, selfishness, and stupidity and turns them into a strength for the coin. It lest the coin feed of of humanity's lowest truths, whether humanity wants to admit what it is or not. The fact that mining can be so crude and still be so bulletproof shows us what we really are. Denying that won't make it go away, and won't make PoW worthless.

[georgem]

Exactly. There is no reason that a network supported by masternodes would be less secure than POW. Masternodes are already more decentralized than POW block finders, and if a change away from POW were to happen, there would be a multitude more masternodes added to the network because of the added profitability of owning one, even further increasing the level of decentralization.

Full disclosure, I am a miner AND masternode operator. I would continue to mine other coins in order to buy more masternodes

Servers are inherently LESS secure than any miner.
I am not afraid that someone takes my miner over. I am afraid to not sufficiently enough secure my masternodes.

[camosoul]

So you guys want to centralize the network, and fuck the miners who got the coin this far, just to enrich the core group of node holders? If this is the current strategy it is no wonder the coin is tanking.

Miners have been taking advantage of a defective system. The fact that it may or may not be fixed, to the detriment of those miners who exploit and abuse it, is not a bad thing.

See what I said about the truth of humanity, and why PoW should never die? Miners are scum. We must twist their base interest into a benefit against their will...

[smoothdoger]

How's the debate going? I've been busy getting people into the Dark.....

It's an uphill struggle Tao, but so far none of the dinosaurs have credibly justified why they're 4x as valuable as the upstart mammals.

Thats just an ignorant comment.
we are all on the same side here and want to see dark succeed

There are problems with a PoW system and there are many unknowns about this masternode system and likely it has its own problems that need to be discussed and worked out
you may not be wrong but you will not convince anyone with that attitude towards the miners that got you here in the first place

[eahmadov]

Good news for traders:

Moolah @moolah_io  ·  37m ago "Don't forget, all traders are entitled to 60 days of fee-free trading at the new @MintPalExchange"

[thelonecrouton]

Yes you can.

Go place a 1000000DRK order on an exchange, if you have enough BTC/fiat. Get back to us about what that does to the price of DRK.

A masternode serverfarm has to be setup too. Crazier yet, since you don't need to transfer the DRK to the masternodes, but can keep them external, imagine a really clever hacker who gets a few thousand unsecured webservers into his control, just to use them for this masternode takeover operation. He wouldn't even need to buy or rent the hardware...
He would just need to collude with rich enough rich DRK holders.

At this point I have no idea what you are even talking about.  

[georgem]

PoW is brutality paradox genius and should always exist, it's a "damn nature, you scary" way of doing things that many people just won't understand because they're too detached from the truth; humanity is the lowest animal. Mining takes greed, selfishness, and stupidity and turns them into a strength for the coin. It lest the coin feed of of humanity's lowest truths, whether humanity wants to admit what it is or not. The fact that mining can be so crude and still be so bulletproof shows us what we really are. Denying that won't make it go away, and won't make PoW worthless.

Well said. You are scaring me sometimes.

[camosoul]

Darkcoins come into existence thru mining. And only thru mining.

Evan Duffield and team, and the whole Masternode concept had nothing to do with it? Just miners?

Everybody you mentioned here had to mine to get to some darkcoins, don't you agree? What do you even say here? Did they just push a button?

The miners share a few of their new found coins with the masternodes.
Mining is not only about maintaining the blockchain.
Even if there are no transactions for days, it doesn't matter. If there are NO transactions for days, then THAT'S the state of blockchain that has to be integrated and shared for everybody to accept.

A single old Celeron can do all that.

You are dellusional.

The amount of transactions (low or high or whatever) has nothing to do with the validity of mining. It just is what is.  

What does that even mean?

Even if we have no transactions for a while, the integrity of the blockchain would still need to be maintained.
You made it sound like it matters how many transactions go thru when in fact the amount of transactions is completely irrelevant to the integrity of the blockchain.
As I said, if there were for some reason NO transactions for a period of time, then this state of blockchain would still need to be checked and shared by everybody in the network.

1. Mining was part of the evolutionary process, sure, but that doesn't mean we have to be stuck with it forever. Not that I'm advocating getting rid of it, I just think it's not as important as it used to be given the Masternode tech we now have.

2. Why can't a single crappy CPU process a few transactions per minute and broadcast them to the network? In what way exactly am I wrong about that?

3. See #2.

1) Agree.

2) Someone else can spoof it if he has 2 celerons. The greed and waste of electricity pushes equilibrium, but the total mass assures no one can break it. Elimiant the pool and you eliminate the 51% threat and mining becomes a more-perfect concept worth keeping around.

Stop seeing it how it is, and see how it could be if we fixed the problems...

[georgem]

Yes you can.

Go place a 1000000DRK order on an exchange, if you have enough BTC/fiat. Get back to us about what that does to the price of DRK.

A masternode serverfarm has to be setup too. Crazier yet, since you don't need to transfer the DRK to the masternodes, but can keep them external, imagine a really clever hacker who gets a few thousand unsecured webservers into his control, just to use them for this masternode takeover operation. He wouldn't even need to buy or rent the hardware...
He would just need to collude with rich enough rich DRK holders.

At this point I have no idea what you are even talking about.  

Why, enough money is already in "good" hands: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/drk/#!rich

[thelonecrouton]

How's the debate going? I've been busy getting people into the Dark.....

It's an uphill struggle Tao, but so far none of the dinosaurs have credibly justified why they're 4x as valuable as the upstart mammals.

Thats just an ignorant comment.
we are all on the same side here and want to see dark succeed

There are problems with a PoW system and there are many unknowns about this masternode system and likely it has its own problems that need to be discussed and worked out
you may not be wrong but you will not convince anyone with that attitude towards the miners that got you here in the first place

Pardon me if I don't subscribe your your religious belief that miners have a god-given right to slurp from the cosmic money hose forever when technologically superior solutions come along and offer greater security and innovation for a fraction of the price.  

[spatula]

Good news for traders:

Moolah @moolah_io  ·  37m ago "Don't forget, all traders are entitled to 60 days of fee-free trading at the new @MintPalExchange"

Its good news for DRK volume that's for sure.

[georgem]

How's the debate going? I've been busy getting people into the Dark.....

It's an uphill struggle Tao, but so far none of the dinosaurs have credibly justified why they're 4x as valuable as the upstart mammals.

Thats just an ignorant comment.
we are all on the same side here and want to see dark succeed

There are problems with a PoW system and there are many unknowns about this masternode system and likely it has its own problems that need to be discussed and worked out
you may not be wrong but you will not convince anyone with that attitude towards the miners that got you here in the first place

Pardon me if I don't subscribe your your religious belief that miners have a god-given right to slurp from the cosmic money hose forever when technologically superior solutions come along and offer greater security and innovation for a fraction of the price.  

So you just want the miners to receive less, but not disappear totally, right?

[camosoul]

Oh you will come to learn the true costs of running a masternode my friend.
The key thing about the miners is that they simply have to be good at mathematics to prove their worth. They need to hash fast and nothing else.

They don't need to hash fast at all, PoW exists to try and ensure decentralisation of whatever that total hash is, that's all.

This is where it's going.

If you have to have a Proof of Stake measured as a Proof of Service, why not require the same to mine at all? Just like the MNs are now, instead of hashrate being the decider, size or Proof of Service could be? Or both? Have to knock the idea around. Reducing wasted energy and the silly of ASICs may be a feasible and non-detrimental goal if seen through that lens, but a means for doing it would have to be conceived, and that does not yet exist. I'm sure Evan has already thought of it and just hasn't said anything cuz he's busy.

[thelonecrouton]

Darkcoins come into existence thru mining. And only thru mining.

Evan Duffield and team, and the whole Masternode concept had nothing to do with it? Just miners?

Everybody you mentioned here had to mine to get to some darkcoins, don't you agree? What do you even say here? Did they just push a button?

The miners share a few of their new found coins with the masternodes.
Mining is not only about maintaining the blockchain.
Even if there are no transactions for days, it doesn't matter. If there are NO transactions for days, then THAT'S the state of blockchain that has to be integrated and shared for everybody to accept.

A single old Celeron can do all that.

You are dellusional.

The amount of transactions (low or high or whatever) has nothing to do with the validity of mining. It just is what is.  

What does that even mean?

Even if we have no transactions for a while, the integrity of the blockchain would still need to be maintained.
You made it sound like it matters how many transactions go thru when in fact the amount of transactions is completely irrelevant to the integrity of the blockchain.
As I said, if there were for some reason NO transactions for a period of time, then this state of blockchain would still need to be checked and shared by everybody in the network.

1. Mining was part of the evolutionary process, sure, but that doesn't mean we have to be stuck with it forever. Not that I'm advocating getting rid of it, I just think it's not as important as it used to be given the Masternode tech we now have.

2. Why can't a single crappy CPU process a few transactions per minute and broadcast them to the network? In what way exactly am I wrong about that?

3. See #2.

1) Agree.

2) Someone else can spoof it if he has 2 celerons. The greed and waste of electricity pushes equilibrium, but the total mass assures no one can break it. Elimiant the pool and you eliminate the 51% threat and mining becomes a more-perfect concept worth keeping around.

Stop seeing it how it is, and see how it could be if we fixed the problems...

I was trying to point out that petaflops of compute power are not required to maintain a simple blockchain, what's required is that whatever compute power there is is decentralised, which can be achieved by enforcing mining via MNP2pools.

Mining is about to be relegated to the backup plan. Miners should not be getting 4X the reward of Masternodes.

Do you carry a Glock and then have a shitty gold plated Deagle taped to your ankle as a backup? (I'm sure you can think of a better comparison, ie. something 4X as expensive as a Glock but far less reliable...)

[TanteStefana2]

I have to wonder if Evan isn't so far ahead of everyone, that he loses us, LOL  I feel like when I follow my husband in WoW and he has some sort of enhancement on for speed, and I don't, and we forget, and I dont' pay attention, suddenly he's gone!  LOL

[thelonecrouton]

How's the debate going? I've been busy getting people into the Dark.....

It's an uphill struggle Tao, but so far none of the dinosaurs have credibly justified why they're 4x as valuable as the upstart mammals.

Thats just an ignorant comment.
we are all on the same side here and want to see dark succeed

There are problems with a PoW system and there are many unknowns about this masternode system and likely it has its own problems that need to be discussed and worked out
you may not be wrong but you will not convince anyone with that attitude towards the miners that got you here in the first place

Pardon me if I don't subscribe your your religious belief that miners have a god-given right to slurp from the cosmic money hose forever when technologically superior solutions come along and offer greater security and innovation for a fraction of the price.  

So you just want the miners to receive less, but not disappear totally, right?

Yes. They will serve as Plan B, but the backup plan shouldn't be 4X as expensive as Plan A.

[TanteStefana2]

This is where it's going.

If you have to have a Proof of Stake measured as a Proof of Service, why not require the same to mine at all? Just like the MNs are now, instead of hashrate being the decider, size or Proof of Service could be? Or both? Have to knock the idea around. Reducing wasted energy and the silly of ASICs may be a feasible and non-detrimental goal if seen through that lens, but a means for doing it would have to be conceived, and that does not yet exist. I'm sure Evan has already thought of it and just hasn't said anything cuz he's busy.

I got the feeling he started all this on DCT?  No?  LOL

[camosoul]

I don't blame the German people, it happened in their country, but it can happen in ANY country and I think we're well on our way in this country to something similar, maybe more ala Stalin, but what is the real

Absolutely true.

Larken Rose has created a documentary about exactly this kind of false belief that many people have: "It can't happen here"
(it can only happen with those other people who have evil DNA or something /sarc)

People must understand how it can happen that a dictator gets voted into power by promising justice, jobs and free stuff and then openly turns into the biggest tyrant imaginable once he is in power.

(click video to play)



I believe that basically every country that has forced taxation (and obedient people who believe government is here to help them) and enforces (or plans to enforce) some kind of gun control (taking away guns from people and leaving only police and military armed) is very prone to turn into a fullblown tyranny sooner or later.

Those who think themselves so special that "it can't happen here" are usually the ones doing everything that causes it to happen here... Arrogant selfishness.

This is why I refer to Liberals/Democrats as Neo-Soviets; they are bringing the second Soviet Revolution through entitlement and cluelessness, just like the first one. Same patterns.

There is no such thing as too much ammo.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

How's the debate going? I've been busy getting people into the Dark.....

It's an uphill struggle Tao, but so far none of the dinosaurs have credibly justified why they're 4x as valuable as the upstart mammals.

Dinosaurs are pesky that way... it took a natural disaster to kill them off!  

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Good news for traders:

Moolah @moolah_io  ·  37m ago "Don't forget, all traders are entitled to 60 days of fee-free trading at the new @MintPalExchange"

Nice. Time to get another Masternode!