[ANN][DASH] Dash (dash.org) | First Self-Funding Self-Governing Crypto Currency

[semajjames]

it just requires everyone to play by the rules, or get off the pitch.

the rules being, hand over 50% their hash power and hand over the 50% of their means to mine the coin when, how and how often  they want, hand over the means to save up at the rate they want and buy the MN as  and when they like,, FFS it's a free world unless you getting blown apart on the streets you live  

[thelonecrouton]

The key is to have as much redundancy as possible.
That's why I cringe when I hear smug masternode holders talk down to miners...
It would be like me trying to get rid of the bacteria in my gut, not realizing that they help me digest food and that I will die without them.

Smug? I mined my first Masternode and bought the rest all the way up to 0.019. If miners whine that Masternodes are 'too profitable,' nobody is stopping them selling some GPU's and buying a Masternode too. They'd also save on electricity!  

I am questioning the 80/20 split because I think Masternodes bring more to the table than miners do, that's all.

What table are you even talking about. I wasn't aware there is a table. We have nothing yet with darkcoin. We need adoption, we need to prove ourselves.
We need to become the best security experts of the world (regarding server security), etc... when we reach that point I will accept that there is a "table".  

Are you joking? Anonymous transactions, forthcoming InstanTX, there's the table. What did miners have to do with that? You know, the whole point of Darkcoin?

[thelonecrouton]

it just requires everyone to play by the rules, or get off the pitch.

the rules being, hand over 50% their hash power and hand over the 50% of their means to mine the coin when, how and how often  they want, hand over the means to save up at the rate they want and buy the MN as  and when they like,, FFS it's a free world unless you getting blown apart on the streets you live  

It's a free world for you to go play tennis while we're playing football too. 

[georgem]

Oh you will come to learn the true costs of running a masternode my friend.
The key thing about the miners is that they simply have to be good at mathematics to prove their worth. They need to hash fast and nothing else.

They don't need to hash fast at all, PoW exists to try and ensure decentralisation of whatever that total hash is, that's all.

The remaining coins are scarce, and more and more people want to be the first ones to harvest those coins.
That's the simple explanation why miners need to hash faster and faster.

Sure, you can hash slow if you like, ok ok! But don't complain when a faster miner eats all the coins away. 

More Masternodes make those coins even scarcer... and a tiny % of miners having a small advantage over the others doesn't matter IMO, someone always has some advantage somehow, in anything.

I am not sure about that.
As you said, I could setup and run 2 masternodes in a few hours. But it only takes me a few minutes to withdraw those coins to an exchange and sell them.
So those 2000 DRK are not really far removed from the market at all.
A masternode is a very volatile form of "fixated asset". It's not a tightly fixated asset like e.g. a house. Far from it.

[georgem]

The key is to have as much redundancy as possible.
That's why I cringe when I hear smug masternode holders talk down to miners...
It would be like me trying to get rid of the bacteria in my gut, not realizing that they help me digest food and that I will die without them.

Smug? I mined my first Masternode and bought the rest all the way up to 0.019. If miners whine that Masternodes are 'too profitable,' nobody is stopping them selling some GPU's and buying a Masternode too. They'd also save on electricity!  

I am questioning the 80/20 split because I think Masternodes bring more to the table than miners do, that's all.

What table are you even talking about. I wasn't aware there is a table. We have nothing yet with darkcoin. We need adoption, we need to prove ourselves.
We need to become the best security experts of the world (regarding server security), etc... when we reach that point I will accept that there is a "table".  

Are you joking? Anonymous transactions, forthcoming InstanTX, there's the table. What did miners have to do with that? You know, the whole point of Darkcoin?

We will see. Just don't talk down to those gut bacterias man, because we absolutely NEED them.

[thelonecrouton]

Oh you will come to learn the true costs of running a masternode my friend.
The key thing about the miners is that they simply have to be good at mathematics to prove their worth. They need to hash fast and nothing else.

They don't need to hash fast at all, PoW exists to try and ensure decentralisation of whatever that total hash is, that's all.

The remaining coins are scarce, and more and more people want to be the first ones to harvest those coins.
That's the simple explanation why miners need to hash faster and faster.

Sure, you can hash slow if you like, ok ok! But don't complain when a faster miner eats all the coins away. 

More Masternodes make those coins even scarcer... and a tiny % of miners having a small advantage over the others doesn't matter IMO, someone always has some advantage somehow, in anything.

I am not sure about that.
As you said, I could setup and run 2 masternodes in a few hours. But it only takes me a few minutes to withdraw those coins to an exchange and sell them.
So those 2000 DRK are not really far removed from the market at all.
A masternode is a very volatile form of "fixated asset". It's not a tightly fixated asset like e.g. a house. Far from it.

Open your wallet, go to the console, type 'masternode count.'

Has that number steadily increased with time or not? Doubling the Masternode count would take another million DRK off the market.

[thelonecrouton]

The key is to have as much redundancy as possible.
That's why I cringe when I hear smug masternode holders talk down to miners...
It would be like me trying to get rid of the bacteria in my gut, not realizing that they help me digest food and that I will die without them.

Smug? I mined my first Masternode and bought the rest all the way up to 0.019. If miners whine that Masternodes are 'too profitable,' nobody is stopping them selling some GPU's and buying a Masternode too. They'd also save on electricity!  

I am questioning the 80/20 split because I think Masternodes bring more to the table than miners do, that's all.

What table are you even talking about. I wasn't aware there is a table. We have nothing yet with darkcoin. We need adoption, we need to prove ourselves.
We need to become the best security experts of the world (regarding server security), etc... when we reach that point I will accept that there is a "table".  

Are you joking? Anonymous transactions, forthcoming InstanTX, there's the table. What did miners have to do with that? You know, the whole point of Darkcoin?

We will see. Just don't talk down to those gut bacterias man, because we absolutely NEED them.

I'm not talking down to anyone, I'm asking miners to come up with sensible arguments as to why they are four times as valuable as Masternodes to the coin.

edit: 6am for me, time for bed... thanks for the debate.

[georgem]

The key is to have as much redundancy as possible.
That's why I cringe when I hear smug masternode holders talk down to miners...
It would be like me trying to get rid of the bacteria in my gut, not realizing that they help me digest food and that I will die without them.

Smug? I mined my first Masternode and bought the rest all the way up to 0.019. If miners whine that Masternodes are 'too profitable,' nobody is stopping them selling some GPU's and buying a Masternode too. They'd also save on electricity!  

I am questioning the 80/20 split because I think Masternodes bring more to the table than miners do, that's all.

What table are you even talking about. I wasn't aware there is a table. We have nothing yet with darkcoin. We need adoption, we need to prove ourselves.
We need to become the best security experts of the world (regarding server security), etc... when we reach that point I will accept that there is a "table".  

Are you joking? Anonymous transactions, forthcoming InstanTX, there's the table. What did miners have to do with that? You know, the whole point of Darkcoin?

We will see. Just don't talk down to those gut bacterias man, because we absolutely NEED them.

I'm not talking down to anyone, I'm asking miners to come up with sensible arguments as to why they are four times as valuable as Masternodes to the coin.

First look into the mirror and ask yourself, what sensible arguments do you have that masternodes should recieve EVEN MORE darkcoins than they already do?
You already expressed a view that you start doubting that the job of a miner is at all valuable. So isn't this discussion only going to end to your satisfaction if miners get no reward at all?
Are you even talking about sharing? Or more about taking away from someone you now deem a "useless eater"?

edit: 6am for me, time for bed... thanks for the debate.

I love it.

[chaeplin]

the cause for full reboots of Amazon's cloud service

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/xen-reveals-xsa-108-memory-leak-bug-details/
https://access.redhat.com/security/cve/CVE-2014-7188

Xen reveals XSA-108 memory leak bug details
By Chris Duckett October 1, 2014, 11:14 PM PST //  @dobes

Email Alert
RSS
A memory reading issue in Xen 4.1 and above has been publicly disclosed, along with a patch.
Xen has unveiled the details of a security issue in its hypervisor that forced cloud providers Amazon and Rackspace into a full reboot of all users' affected machines over the past week.

The issue, CVE-2014-7188 / XSA-108, allowed hardware virtual machine guests to potentially read data from either other guest machines, or the hypervisor itself, Xen said in its advisory. The memory bug hit x86 systems with machines with ARM chips escaping the issue.

"The MSR [model-specific register] range specified for APIC use in the x2APIC access model spans 256 MSRs. Hypervisor code emulating read and write accesses to these MSRs erroneously covered 1,024 MSRs," Xen said.

"While the write emulation path is written such that accesses to the extra MSRs would not have any bad effect (they end up being no-ops), the read path would (attempt to) access memory beyond the single page set up for APIC emulation."

While the issue affects Xen 4.1 and over, a patch has been issued for xen-unstable, Xen 4.4, 4.3, and 4.2.

Over the past week, the issue has been cited as the cause for full reboots of Amazon's cloud service, as well as Rackspace, that occurred at short notice.
~~

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

First look into the mirror and ask yourself, what sensible arguments do you have that masternodes should recieve EVEN MORE darkcoins than they already do?

Georgem,
Please explain succinctly why miners deserve 4x more of the coins from each block than masternodes do, when masternodes can do the job the miners do, potentially even MUCH MUCH safer than miners do currently?

[georgem]

First look into the mirror and ask yourself, what sensible arguments do you have that masternodes should recieve EVEN MORE darkcoins than they already do?

Georgem,
Please explain succinctly why miners deserve 4x more of the coins from each block than masternodes do, when masternodes can do the job the miners do, potentially even MUCH MUCH safer than miners do currently?

As I just posted in the darkcointalk forum:

Let's not forget that we need darkcoin to also work without darksend, without anonymity.
There are many reasons why someone will want to show other people a transaction list of an address. For example a donation based charity or something.
Voluntary transparency can be a very valuable function.
I always liked that darkcoin can be BOTH anonymous and not anonymous, depending on the needs of the user.
If we get rid of the miners, we get rid of that, and this would in turn limit the amount of things one can do with darkcoin, wouldn't it?
Even batman turns into bruce wayne by day. Imagine him being batman 24/7... he would probably have commited suicide by now (if he really existed).

...

So, g4q34g4qg47ww, you want as a next step that we don't have any option anymore, right? No option anymore to use or not use darksend depending on our own needs?
No public ledger possibility anymore, right?
You just need you to come clean and tell me what your final goal is here. Don't ask me to be succinct when it is you who makes moves with unforseable consequences.

[g4q34g4qg47ww]

First look into the mirror and ask yourself, what sensible arguments do you have that masternodes should recieve EVEN MORE darkcoins than they already do?

Georgem,
Please explain succinctly why miners deserve 4x more of the coins from each block than masternodes do, when masternodes can do the job the miners do, potentially even MUCH MUCH safer than miners do currently?

As I just posted in the darkcointalk forum:

Let's not forget that we need darkcoin to also work without darksend, without anonymity.
There are many reasons why someone will want to show other people a transaction list of an address. For example a donation based charity or something.
Voluntary transparency can be a very valuable function.
I always liked that darkcoin can be BOTH anonymous and not anonymous, depending on the needs of the user.
If we get rid of the miners, we get rid of that, and this would in turn limit the amount of things one can do with darkcoin, wouldn't it?
Even batman turns into bruce wayne by day. Imagine him being batman 24/7... he would probably have commited suicide by now (if he really existed).

...

So, g4q34g4qg47ww, you want as a next step that we don't have any option anymore, right? No option anymore to use or not use darksend depending on our own needs?
No public ledger possibility anymore, right?
You just need you to come clean and tell me what your final goal is here. Don't ask me to be succinct when it is you who makes moves with unforseable consequences.

Where in the heck are you getting that? Having MNs generate the blockchain would have absolutely no affect on the things you named...?? THe blockchain would be just as visible as it ever was, not that anyone could trace transactions anyway.

Try again.

[georgem]

Where in the heck are you getting that? Having MNs generate the blockchain would have absolutely no affect on the things you named...?? THe blockchain would be just as visible as it ever was, not that anyone could trace transactions anyway.

Try again.

Satoshis principles of how a blockchain is secured and validated. You just want to let the validation be done by an elitist club of early adopters, instead of giving EVERYBODY a chance of participating in the coin creation. That's what I don't get.

Mining gives everybody the possibility to get to some DRK without the need to go thru an exchange or thru some smug MN holder who thinks he is now supposed to be the sole source of DRK.

I am mining all kinds of coins, so I don't need to go thru the whole established banking system with all their KYC etc...
No bank anywhere has my personal information and knows that I bought cryptocurrencies, EXACTLY because I was able to get to some coins by running a mining machine!

So, if you get rid of mining, you take away from people the possibility that they can create coins themselves, instead you are forcing them to only be able to buy darkcoins thru an exchange, which is INSANE!

Darkcoin is VERY COOL in that regard, because it let's you still mine with your CPU/GPU. (And imagine in the future having X11 USB ASICS that cost 10 $? Isn't that fantastic? Giving some kid a X11 miner as present and having him participate in the network. Ok, maybe in some rich elitist famility they can give some kid 1000 DRK complete with managed server, .... )

If the blockchain were to be validated by MN network only, I would not trust it. Sure, everybody can provide a blockchain, it's not just about its visibility, it's about its integrity!

You have the burden of the proof to show that MN network can really replace mining. Not me!
Such extraordinairy claims require extraordinairy evidence.

[georgem]

finished rendering:



i hope we can use them instead of stock footage in some press releases
https://mega.co.nz/#!NUkSmKIY!3_nU419UbdZf-jAV0kWcG3skQVnvLRmBDPYiBunBA5Y
https://mega.co.nz/#!xREhWTIR!pkeEe-vmvOYdL5VK6L_u3bHm2-3nF79vMnT-dqrfCSU


next render series is titled "to the moon".

Nice, may I ask, what rendering software do you use?

[georgem]

finished rendering:



i hope we can use them instead of stock footage in some press releases
https://mega.co.nz/#!NUkSmKIY!3_nU419UbdZf-jAV0kWcG3skQVnvLRmBDPYiBunBA5Y
https://mega.co.nz/#!xREhWTIR!pkeEe-vmvOYdL5VK6L_u3bHm2-3nF79vMnT-dqrfCSU


next render series is titled "to the moon".

Nice, may I ask, what rendering software do you use?

cinema 4d

I thought so. Can you try HDR rendering with global illumination? I think it would look insanely realistic then, but will probably take 10 x longer to render.

[meatgrinder]

the cause for full reboots of Amazon's cloud service

http://www.techrepublic.com/article/xen-reveals-xsa-108-memory-leak-bug-details/
https://access.redhat.com/security/cve/CVE-2014-7188

Xen reveals XSA-108 memory leak bug details
By Chris Duckett October 1, 2014, 11:14 PM PST //  @dobes

Email Alert
RSS
A memory reading issue in Xen 4.1 and above has been publicly disclosed, along with a patch.
Xen has unveiled the details of a security issue in its hypervisor that forced cloud providers Amazon and Rackspace into a full reboot of all users' affected machines over the past week.

The issue, CVE-2014-7188 / XSA-108, allowed hardware virtual machine guests to potentially read data from either other guest machines, or the hypervisor itself, Xen said in its advisory. The memory bug hit x86 systems with machines with ARM chips escaping the issue.

"The MSR [model-specific register] range specified for APIC use in the x2APIC access model spans 256 MSRs. Hypervisor code emulating read and write accesses to these MSRs erroneously covered 1,024 MSRs," Xen said.

"While the write emulation path is written such that accesses to the extra MSRs would not have any bad effect (they end up being no-ops), the read path would (attempt to) access memory beyond the single page set up for APIC emulation."

While the issue affects Xen 4.1 and over, a patch has been issued for xen-unstable, Xen 4.4, 4.3, and 4.2.

Over the past week, the issue has been cited as the cause for full reboots of Amazon's cloud service, as well as Rackspace, that occurred at short notice.
~~

You are the man  never chitter chatter banter just straight up technology. Getting it done.

[TanteStefana2]

Just for clarity, the country that is owed a lot of gravy in the EU is Germany.  If things keep going the way they are, the USA will be owing Germany some gravy too. 

Yes, but they are also the ones paying for most of this (right after paying for East Germany to come up to speed).  They will now become the country everyone hates again for trying to make the world a better place, IMO. (disclosure, I'm of German decent ;P )  I think they still want to make up for the evils of WWII, but that can never be repaid. (should I say we?)  Only forgiveness can repay it, and that is given, not earned.

The lies and manipulation didn't just start in our lifetimes.
I urge you to continue down the rabbit hole.
I would be DAMN PROUD to be German.

http://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/

http://grizzom.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/red-ice-radio-august-18-2014.html

I'm sorry, I have to speak up here.  Bottom line, a group in power that kidnap and kill 5 million people in the most inhumane way, and don't tell me it didn't happen, my grandfather saw it toward the end of the war, are bad and those most responsible let evil fill their hearts.  I don't call Hitler the anti Christ or the devil, because I don't give him that much credit.  He was a sick, hateful shit head that was undoubtedly a psychopath, in the true nature of the word. 

I don't blame the German people, it happened in their country, but it can happen in ANY country and I think we're well on our way in this country to something similar, maybe more ala Stalin, but what is the real difference, millions dead, same result.

I have no problems being German, I don't hide it, I welcome the discussion and hopefully the healing.  My friend's mother saw her mother killed in front of her.  They shot her in the belly where she was carrying her future sibling.  The pain goes down to the next generation when the children have to deal with their parent's issues, and it goes down again and again.

The same thing is happening right now in so many countries, in South America, Africa, the Middle East, North Korea and probably many other places we don't even know about.

ok, gonna stop now, I just wanted to make myself clear as to what I believe reality is.

[georgem]

I don't blame the German people, it happened in their country, but it can happen in ANY country and I think we're well on our way in this country to something similar, maybe more ala Stalin, but what is the real

Absolutely true.

Larken Rose has created a documentary about exactly this kind of false belief that many people have: "It can't happen here"
(it can only happen with those other people who have evil DNA or something /sarc)

People must understand how it can happen that a dictator gets voted into power by promising justice, jobs and free stuff and then openly turns into the biggest tyrant imaginable once he is in power.

(click video to play)



I believe that basically every country that has forced taxation (and obedient people who believe government is here to help them) and enforces (or plans to enforce) some kind of gun control (taking away guns from people and leaving only police and military armed) is very prone to turn into a fullblown tyranny sooner or later.

[Terzo]

The price is going up again 

[semajjames]

Where in the heck are you getting that? Having MNs generate the blockchain would have absolutely no affect on the things you named...?? THe blockchain would be just as visible as it ever was, not that anyone could trace transactions anyway.

Try again.

Satoshis principles of how a blockchain is secured and validated. You just want to let the validation be done by an elitist club of early adopters, instead of giving EVERYBODY a chance of participating in the coin creation. That's what I don't get.

Mining gives everybody the possibility to get to some DRK without the need to go thru an exchange or thru some smug MN holder who thinks he is now supposed to be the sole source of DRK.

I am mining all kinds of coins, so I don't need to go thru the whole established banking system with all their KYC etc...
No bank anywhere has my personal information and knows that I bought cryptocurrencies, EXACTLY because I was able to get to some coins by running a mining machine!

So, if you get rid of mining, you take away from people the possibility that they can create coins themselves, instead you are forcing them to only be able to buy darkcoins thru an exchange, which is INSANE!

Darkcoin is VERY COOL in that regard, because it let's you still mine with your CPU/GPU. (And imagine in the future having X11 USB ASICS that cost 10 $? Isn't that fantastic? Giving some kid a X11 miner as present and having him participate in the network. Ok, maybe in some rich elitist famility they can give some kid 1000 DRK complete with managed server, .... )

If the blockchain were to be validated by MN network only, I would not trust it. Sure, everybody can provide a blockchain, it's not just about its visibility, it's about its integrity!

You have the burden of the proof to show that MN network can really replace mining. Not me!
Such extraordinairy claims require extraordinairy evidence.

+1 georgem

I really can't believe there's another person here that thinks killing of miner's independence is the way to go.
 forward with DRK