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Author Topic: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much?  (Read 32352 times)
Hawker
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September 29, 2011, 07:27:39 PM
 #201

Thats just your opinion.  You are outvoted.  

Cue Fred tearfully comparing his plight to people being tortured and killed in Bahrain.

Theft has no conditional element to it. Just cuz you make a law to permit theft, doesn't make it more benevolent.

Cue Hawker being slowly boiled like a frog in a pot. Do I smell cooked flesh? Let me know when it gets too hot for you.

We've been though that.  If its the state, its not theft.  Its a legal thing.

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FredericBastiat
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September 29, 2011, 08:50:59 PM
 #202

We've been though that.  If its the state, its not theft.  Its a legal thing.

I've got a cute idea then, I'll get a name change and call myself State Government (you can call me SG for short). You know, it's just a legal thing. Theft never came so easily.

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Hawker
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September 29, 2011, 08:56:07 PM
 #203

We've been though that.  If its the state, its not theft.  Its a legal thing.

I've got a cute idea then, I'll get a name change and call myself State Government (you can call me SG for short). You know, it's just a legal thing. Theft never came so easily.

You can call yourself anything.  Its persuading everyone else that the idea isn't daft is your problem.

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September 29, 2011, 09:05:00 PM
 #204

You can call yourself anything.  Its persuading everyone else that the idea isn't daft is your problem.

It isn't hard to convince most people, especially when you call it law, that if there was no consequence for theft, that they would have less compunction. That's easy. It's requires less labor to steal than produce when there are few barriers to entry. It's even easier when you can get your minions to do it for you so you don't have to get your hands dirty, then almost everybody wants to get in on the game.

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September 30, 2011, 03:06:21 PM
 #205

I'm amazed no one has pointed out that free education for children is socialism.

Free education for children is socialism.

I'm amazed

Well, there is the caveat that there could be free education that is not socialist.

Teachers could decide to voluntarily provide their services every day. Janitors could volunteer to take care of the school. Construction workers could volunteer to build the building. Donors could donate materials.

Or someone could voluntarily give their money to pay for the school for the child's free education.

Or the child can be home schooled.

Otherwise someone has to pay. Or under socialism you steal money from someone and give it to the school.

It's called tax. That's how teachers get payed

I already covered that...

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September 30, 2011, 03:31:17 PM
 #206

I'm amazed no one has pointed out that free education for children is socialism.

Free education for children is socialism.

I'm amazed

Well, there is the caveat that there could be free education that is not socialist.

Teachers could decide to voluntarily provide their services every day. Janitors could volunteer to take care of the school. Construction workers could volunteer to build the building. Donors could donate materials.

Or someone could voluntarily give their money to pay for the school for the child's free education.

Or the child can be home schooled.

Otherwise someone has to pay. Or under socialism you steal money from someone and give it to the school.

It's called tax. That's how teachers get payed

I already covered that...

Yeah, we posted within a few minutes of each other Smiley
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October 01, 2011, 11:52:24 AM
 #207

Bind.. I'm not a socialist but what you're saying is crazy.  The US govt does not own the means of production; therefore, this country isn't socialist.  I lose a bit respect for people every time they say big govt = socialism.  We're not nearly as bad as the USSR yet.

No we certainly are not as bad as the USSR was YET. The operative word is YET. Its getting there rapidly.

Go research the history of the founders and top tiered members of the societies, fraternal, and supposed philanthropic 501(c)(3) foundations and organisations that have lead to the globalist juggernaught that has taken over the governments of the world, from international, right down to your local municipality and school boards, especially those in the name of the education, sustainable development, enviroment, world peace, health, and monetary reform.

Its called incrementalism and gradualism.

it should never be YET.

it should always be NEVER.

an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

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"... history disseminated to the masses is written by those who win battles and wars and murder their heroes ..."


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October 04, 2011, 07:20:19 AM
 #208

American fears socialism so much because it would make those who actually get crap done at work. Have less work to do. Then the ones that works their mouth at work. Everybody seen those pictures of 4 guys standing at work, 3 of them around that one guy that does it.

Imagine if America can work as fast as the lazyiest person/sloth/chatterbug at work. Nothing would get done and we all be in line waiting for the free government bread! Imagine if our workplace was enforced by robots and everybody would  have equal share of duties and jobs. Everything would be fair and the lazy & slouches would die off. We're so scared of irobot cuz they probably kill off all the lazy bastards and broods who will never change.

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October 04, 2011, 01:25:35 PM
 #209

American fears socialism so much because it would make those who actually get crap done at work. Have less work to do. Then the ones that works their mouth at work. Everybody seen those pictures of 4 guys standing at work, 3 of them around that one guy that does it.

Imagine if America can work as fast as the lazyiest person/sloth/chatterbug at work. Nothing would get done and we all be in line waiting for the free government bread! Imagine if our workplace was enforced by robots and everybody would  have equal share of duties and jobs. Everything would be fair and the lazy & slouches would die off. We're so scared of irobot cuz they probably kill off all the lazy bastards and broods who will never change.

you are talking about the younger, propagandized, indoctrinated generations with entitlement disorders.

Older people and younger ones who have had proper upbringings work very hard, and no matter what happens they will always work as much and as hard as necessary to make their lives and the lives of their loved ones better. In other words, they adapt to the needs as the needs arise.

As a small business owner, I have a very strong work ethic. I do what needs done regardless of the situation and I put in as many hours as needed to get the job done on schedule. I have already worked 36 hours straight (with breaks) to get jobs done on schedule. Have done this all my life since growing up on a farm. Since I was a young boy I had chores. I can remember getting up at 3:30 am before school to feed livestock and milk cows and goats. Then after school, you do your other chores. You are so beat you go to bed a 7pm or 8pm. That might seem strange to some people but I was never happier.

So I reject your contention that Americans are lazy fat slobs, although the arguement can certainly be made that we are rapidly turning into that, but it isnt just Americans. Its happeneing world-wide.

What you are witnessing is not just America, its all over the world, and its a product of a socialist state. They need you to be so poor, so unhappy, and so disenfranchised that you need to rely on the state for every need, because you cant do it for yourself.

What they do not tell you is what will happen after everyone relies on the state. Who will do the critical jobs? My guess is that everyone will be taught in school, like what is happening now, to be a worker population with lots of vocational testing and training. They will give you your job mandates. A police state where you serve the state and if you cant serve the state, you will be put out to pasture, imprisoned, or eliminated because you are a waste of the air you breathe. Where will your housing come from when its state run? Your food and water? Clothing? toilet paper? shoes? Maybe tuesdays are meat days and thursdays are bread days. Will you still get those food stamps and subsidies? doubtful.

"... He is no fool who parts with that which he cannot keep, when he is sure to be recompensed with that which he cannot lose ..."

"... history disseminated to the masses is written by those who win battles and wars and murder their heroes ..."


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October 04, 2011, 03:18:31 PM
 #210

I agree with you BInd. I'm sure you're a good working citizen. But nowadays with local ordinances and state laws etc.... public schools, welfare it's pretty close. Just because they haven't enforced vocational careers and enforced labor doesn't mean we're not there already.

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December 07, 2011, 08:38:19 AM
 #211

Socialism is an inevitable consequence of greed-driven capitalism and human nature.

Humans don't like seeing other humans suffer, and in capitalism, there can be only one winner.
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December 07, 2011, 09:22:06 AM
 #212

A book published in 2009 claims that negative social phenomena such as shorter life expectancy, higher disease rates, homicide, infant mortality, obesity, teenage pregnancies, emotional depression and prison population correlate with higher socioeconomic inequality.

The book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit_Level:_Why_More_Equal_Societies_Almost_Always_Do_Better

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December 07, 2011, 09:26:08 AM
 #213

One word answer:

Europe  Grin

Corporations have been enthroned, An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. ~Abe Lincoln 1ApJdWUdSWYw8n8HEATYhHXA9EYoRTy7c4
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December 07, 2011, 09:36:27 AM
 #214

What's so bad about Norway? Sweden? Germany? Finland? Denmark?

Or are you just looking at the misbehaving countries who have lived over their means for quite a while? It's not like that's an European problem.

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December 07, 2011, 09:56:19 AM
 #215

tl;dr

Fear the dumb beasts, particularly those who publicly masturbate about their hard working virtuosity and moral superiority, for they are indeed jerk offs, and not in season nearly often enough.

Guns are love, it's time to love one another right now  Wink

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December 07, 2011, 10:07:49 AM
 #216

Nothing is 'wrong' with those places. I've enjoyed many of the European countries. 10 years ago, envy, is what most people would have thought because of the 'benefits'. Those are emotional, 'live today' crowd that ignore the fact that somebody always has to pay for those privileges that are given. Socialism is, imo, an idealistic realm that can only exist when resources are abundant.

As to the question, today people in the USA fear socialism because of Europe, sort of, embraced it and went broke. I don't mean to necessarily include all countries in Europe, but it is easier to generalize and get the point across than to list each country.

If a country wants to give a privilege to its citizens by using others money to pay for it though equalizing wealth, so be it. Just so long as they know the consequences. Socialism will never truly exist. Never has never will, unless you can find one of those food and material replicator devices from Star Trek.

But Hey, its just my dumb opinion. No offense.

Corporations have been enthroned, An era of corruption in high places will follow and the money power will endeavor to prolong its reign by working on the prejudices of the people until wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed. ~Abe Lincoln 1ApJdWUdSWYw8n8HEATYhHXA9EYoRTy7c4
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December 07, 2011, 10:17:21 AM
 #217

What's so bad about Norway? Sweden? Germany? Finland? Denmark?

Or are you just looking at the misbehaving countries who have lived over their means for quite a while? It's not like that's an European problem.

Its happening all over the world. Industrialized nations that have enjoyed many decades, to a century, of prosperity are being trampled by oppressive legislation, globalist interests, and are being tied down with world trade treaties, allowing unrestricted free trade, allowing multi-nationals to import goods made by people being paid a bowl of rice and a poke in the eye, killing those previously industrialized nations manufacturing infrastructure, employment, and economies. Look at the state of the euro and european economy. Its just as bad as America. The globalist interests are buying up governments all over the world to institute the treasonous legilsation and treaty ratification allowing it all. To bring up the 3rd world and bring down the industrialized nations so everyone is lower class serfs who need the government to take care of them. Next is World War 3, the spark of which has probably already been lit in the middle east.. They want everyone to be so beat down, scared, unhappy, and disenfranchised that we will accept world government and have a one world oppressive, tyrannical, totalitarian police state. Believe it.


tl;dr

Fear the dumb beasts, particularly those who publicly masturbate about their hard working virtuosity and moral superiority, for they are indeed jerk offs, and not in season nearly often enough.

Guns are love, it's time to love one another right now  Wink


Please debate the message that you disagree with instead of irrational ad-hominem attacks against the messenger, unless you have nothing of reason and rationale debate them with.

"... He is no fool who parts with that which he cannot keep, when he is sure to be recompensed with that which he cannot lose ..."

"... history disseminated to the masses is written by those who win battles and wars and murder their heroes ..."


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JA37
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December 07, 2011, 10:18:54 AM
 #218

Nothing is 'wrong' with those places. I've enjoyed many of the European countries. 10 years ago, envy, is what most people would have thought because of the 'benefits'. Those are emotional, 'live today' crowd that ignore the fact that somebody always has to pay for those privileges that are given. Socialism is, imo, an idealistic realm that can only exist when resources are abundant.

As to the question, today people in the USA fear socialism because of Europe, sort of, embraced it and went broke. I don't mean to necessarily include all countries in Europe, but it is easier to generalize and get the point across than to list each country.

If a country wants to give a privilege to its citizens by using others money to pay for it though equalizing wealth, so be it. Just so long as they know the consequences. Socialism will never truly exist. Never has never will, unless you can find one of those food and material replicator devices from Star Trek.

But Hey, its just my dumb opinion. No offense.

I'm not offended but I do think that you're generalizing to fit your conclusion. By American standards, all European countries have embraced socialism more or less, but only a few of them are actually broke. The countries I listed aren't broke. They're doing quite well and they're as socialistic as any other country in Europe. I think you'll have to look elsewhere for the reason. Perhaps corrupt politicians in those countries, lack of tax morale, borrowing and spending money they didn't have. But that's not socialism. That happens everywhere.

What consequences are you talking about?  I assume it's not the positive ones I listed above.
Socialism exists today. And it's working quite well in the countries I listed. Unless we have different definitions of socialism.  

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JA37
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December 07, 2011, 10:29:07 AM
 #219

Its happening all over the world. Industrialized nations that have enjoyed many decades, to a century, of prosperity are being trampled by oppressive legislation, globalist interests, and are being tied down with world trade treaties, allowing unrestricted free trade, allowing multi-nationals to import goods made by people being paid a bowl of rice and a poke in the eye, killing those previously industrialized nations manufacturing infrastructure, employment, and economies. Look at the state of the euro and european economy. Its just as bad as America. The globalist interests are buying up governments all over the world to institute the treasonous legilsation and treaty ratification allowing it all. To bring up the 3rd world and bring down the industrialized nations so everyone is lower class serfs who need the government to take care of them. Next is World War 3, the spark of which has probably already been lit in the middle east.. They want everyone to be so beat down, scared, unhappy, and disenfranchised that we will accept world government and have a one world oppressive, tyrannical, totalitarian police state. Believe it.

I'm sorry, I thought this was an anarcho-capitalist dream? Unrestricted free trade, outsourcing of jobs to the lowest bidder, law of the wealthy.
Yes, the Euro is in a bad shape, but that's not from some conspiracy, that's because of shitty decisions long ago where countries couldn't agree on basic working principles and instead hoped that things would work out. And failing to adhere to their own rules that they actually agreed on. Unless you believe that the freemasons were behind it all and sabotaging the negotiations when the Euro was being discussed.

(Replace freemasons with Jews, NWO or any other group that fits your conspiracy theory)

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December 07, 2011, 11:01:27 AM
 #220

Please debate the message that you disagree with instead of irrational ad-hominem attacks against the messenger, unless you have nothing of reason and rationale debate them with.

It's less a rational debate than it is reactionary childish hysteria in response to a changing world, hence I give it what it deserves.

One thing that is certain is that the United States has dumbed down considerably in the last 30 years or so and a retreat into superstitious thinking is a big part of that dumbing down. In particular, you have an age group that came of age in the 1980s who were carefully protected from critical thought to the point of not even being let in on the joke that the ideology which they actually believe was never more than an empty rationale, a lawyer's strategem in a negotiation. Prominent examples of of such individuals are Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman, and Eric Cantor, two superstitious rubes and a wannabee Zionist traitor.

Americans are on the average dumb, easily misled, and have the attention span of parakeets. Getting them stirred up with whatever bogeyman serves your goals is about as hard as making a baby cry with a red hot salad fork.

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