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Author Topic: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much?  (Read 32322 times)
JA37
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December 09, 2011, 03:55:28 PM
 #281

I think dictatorships/monarchies tend to be the most corrupt. How do people attempt to measure corruption? I am sure at least one sociologist has tried.

Here's one list of the least corrupt: http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/least-corrupt-countries.html
And of the most: http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/most-corrupt-countries.html

I haven't checked the sources or methodology, so take it for what it is.

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December 09, 2011, 03:58:57 PM
 #282

I think dictatorships/monarchies tend to be the most corrupt. How do people attempt to measure corruption? I am sure at least one sociologist has tried.

Here's one list of the least corrupt: http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/least-corrupt-countries.html
And of the most: http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/most-corrupt-countries.html

I haven't checked the sources or methodology, so take it for what it is.
FUCK YOU BITCHES! DENMARK IS ON TOP(where i live), of the least corrupt! and we are having a red government(socialists+social liberals+stuff, im not really into danish politics).

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
JA37
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December 09, 2011, 04:01:40 PM
 #283

I think dictatorships/monarchies tend to be the most corrupt. How do people attempt to measure corruption? I am sure at least one sociologist has tried.

Here's one list of the least corrupt: http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/least-corrupt-countries.html
And of the most: http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/most-corrupt-countries.html

I haven't checked the sources or methodology, so take it for what it is.
FUCK YOU BITCHES! DENMARK IS ON TOP(where i live), of the least corrupt! and we are having a red government(socialists+social liberals+stuff, im not really into danish politics).

And a monarchy no less!

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bb113
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December 09, 2011, 04:07:29 PM
 #284

I think dictatorships/monarchies tend to be the most corrupt. How do people attempt to measure corruption? I am sure at least one sociologist has tried.

Here's one list of the least corrupt: http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/least-corrupt-countries.html
And of the most: http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/most-corrupt-countries.html

I haven't checked the sources or methodology, so take it for what it is.
FUCK YOU BITCHES! DENMARK IS ON TOP(where i live), of the least corrupt! and we are having a red government(socialists+social liberals+stuff, im not really into danish politics).

And a monarchy no less!

I used "tends"... so my ass is covered. It'd be interesting to group them based on government type and chart it. It looks like they used public and expert "perception".
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December 09, 2011, 04:21:12 PM
 #285

I think dictatorships/monarchies tend to be the most corrupt. How do people attempt to measure corruption? I am sure at least one sociologist has tried.

Here's one list of the least corrupt: http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/least-corrupt-countries.html
And of the most: http://www.infoplease.com/world/statistics/most-corrupt-countries.html

I haven't checked the sources or methodology, so take it for what it is.
FUCK YOU BITCHES! DENMARK IS ON TOP(where i live), of the least corrupt! and we are having a red government(socialists+social liberals+stuff, im not really into danish politics).

And a monarchy no less!

I used "tends"... so my ass is covered. It'd be interesting to group them based on government type and chart it. It looks like they used public and expert "perception".

I don't think the monarchy in Denmark is anything but a puppet show. I don't think they have any power, and I assumed that you were talking about monarchies where the king/queen actually has a saying in what happens in that country. I was just being cute.

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December 09, 2011, 05:30:43 PM
 #286

Agreed. Germany is a mix between socialism and capitalism. Something I think is a good thing.

Agreed (that it is a mix). But where is the line? To my mind, the banks are on the socialist side these days. Obviously I, which countless others, pay for their losses and the bonuses of their traders and board members. Even though I have nothing to do with most of them. Which I think is not a good thing. But a very socialist thing. My uncle (self employed) did that 40 years in the GDR.

Socialism isn't the problem in Europe, and Capitalism isn't the problem in the US. Corruption, nepotism, etc are the real problems. Nothing is as bad to an economy as corruption.

Hmmm, I might have guessed that corruption existent, but was not extremely high during the Great Leap Forward. But then, maybe you are right and corruption is to blame for the ~20 Million who starved to death at the time. I would have thought it was planning, and particularly incompetent planning at that.

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December 09, 2011, 07:54:00 PM
 #287

Monarchies and dictatorships, when they existed long ago, were preferable to what we had today. One could easily evade the laws and taxes since the technology and means to enforce them were negligible. I would take a primitive monarchy over what we have today any time.

@HarveyAlpha (https://twitter.com/#!/HarveyAlpha) | It would be foolish to assert that there is no power above mine. Only the attitude that I take toward it will be quite another than that of the religious age: I shall be the enemy of every higher power.
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December 09, 2011, 08:58:41 PM
 #288

I would take a primitive monarchy over what we have today any time.

At least primitive monarchies are honest about stealing from you, eh?

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December 09, 2011, 09:01:17 PM
 #289

I would take a primitive monarchy over what we have today any time.

At least primitive monarchies are honest about stealing from you, eh?
Yes, at least they can possibly rob from me some of the time while not robbing me all the time.

@HarveyAlpha (https://twitter.com/#!/HarveyAlpha) | It would be foolish to assert that there is no power above mine. Only the attitude that I take toward it will be quite another than that of the religious age: I shall be the enemy of every higher power.
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December 11, 2011, 06:43:51 PM
 #290

This is mostly just a concept since I don't know exactly how these scores were calculated (i.e. is the perception that Venezuela is corrupt shared by Venezuelans, or is it an outside perspective, etc). Also, "freedom from corruption" was included in calculating the economic freedom score but is only one small factor, so it is not responsible for the entire correlation. Anyway it should be recalculated without that factor.



http://www.transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/2010/results

http://www.heritage.org/Index/Explore.aspx

*edited to label a few more countries
bb113
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December 15, 2011, 05:50:29 AM
 #291

So this sigmoid curve with two city states at the top right doesn't interest anyone? I mean it looks almost like a drug dose-response curve. That could be due to ceiling and floor effects though...
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December 16, 2011, 04:31:06 PM
 #292

So this sigmoid curve with two city states at the top right doesn't interest anyone? I mean it looks almost like a drug dose-response curve. That could be due to ceiling and floor effects though...
Sure it does. Very interesting. But a bit subjective, likely. In particular the UAE seemed to be exceedingly corrupt when I was there. When I went there for my company 2 years ago I had to deal with corruption before I could even start to work: I had to pay a "sponsor" handsomely to get a badge to enter the facility. And Goodness only knows what kind of cash changed hands to get the contract in the first place. On your chart, UAE looks almost leveled with the USA.

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December 16, 2011, 11:17:08 PM
 #293

Socialism, fascism, democracy, monarchy... all variations of human farming.  Until people realize that human ownership (sometimes referred to as slavery) is inherent to the state, any state, they'll continue to bicker about which plantations and masters are best to serve under.

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December 17, 2011, 09:07:46 AM
 #294

Very true mashuri, now what do you propose we do about it?
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December 17, 2011, 09:17:54 AM
 #295

So this sigmoid curve with two city states at the top right doesn't interest anyone? I mean it looks almost like a drug dose-response curve. That could be due to ceiling and floor effects though...
Sure it does. Very interesting. But a bit subjective, likely. In particular the UAE seemed to be exceedingly corrupt when I was there. When I went there for my company 2 years ago I had to deal with corruption before I could even start to work: I had to pay a "sponsor" handsomely to get a badge to enter the facility. And Goodness only knows what kind of cash changed hands to get the contract in the first place. On your chart, UAE looks almost leveled with the USA.

Possibly the US government is more clever about it. But yea, eventually I will look into how those numbers were calculated and try a better way of charting it. I was hoping someone else would be interested enough to do it though.
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December 19, 2011, 06:10:26 PM
 #296

Very true mashuri, now what do you propose we do about it?

Simple, abolish the state.

Once one realizes the immorality of the state, the only moral choice reduces to abolition.  Laying groundwork for what might happen next is secondary.  For example, many pro-slavery people in the 19th century attempted to shift the burden of argument by asking, "How will the cotton industry survive?" when facing slavery abolitionists.  From a moral standpoint, the burden actually lies on the shoulders of those who continue to advocate immorality.

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December 19, 2011, 08:14:15 PM
 #297

Very true mashuri, now what do you propose we do about it?

Simple, abolish the state.

Once one realizes the immorality of the state, the only moral choice reduces to abolition.  Laying groundwork for what might happen next is secondary.  For example, many pro-slavery people in the 19th century attempted to shift the burden of argument by asking, "How will the cotton industry survive?" when facing slavery abolitionists.  From a moral standpoint, the burden actually lies on the shoulders of those who continue to advocate immorality.

Yes, very simple. OK, then do it.
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December 21, 2011, 08:37:15 PM
 #298

Very true mashuri, now what do you propose we do about it?

Simple, abolish the state.

Once one realizes the immorality of the state, the only moral choice reduces to abolition.  Laying groundwork for what might happen next is secondary.  For example, many pro-slavery people in the 19th century attempted to shift the burden of argument by asking, "How will the cotton industry survive?" when facing slavery abolitionists.  From a moral standpoint, the burden actually lies on the shoulders of those who continue to advocate immorality.

Yes, very simple. OK, then do it.

Simple != Easy

Uncontrolled information channels (like the internet) are certainly helping a lot though.  Smiley

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December 22, 2011, 12:38:30 AM
 #299

I just want to know how you think the transition can happen without killing us all.
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December 22, 2011, 09:14:16 AM
 #300

I just want to know how you think the transition can happen without killing us all.
i think its possible. not all but some, like Atlas or other sociopaths, might get killed or commit suicide.

EDIT: I DO NOT LIKE PEOPLE GET KILLED.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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