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Author Topic: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much?  (Read 32330 times)
Geddi
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April 09, 2013, 06:46:54 PM
 #361

I think socialists should probably stay away from bitcoin if that is the case, namely due to how difficult it is to tax. Especially if people begin trading bitcoin over the tor network.

By investing in or even mining bitcoins, socialists would be contributing to the decline of socialism. You'd basically see a return to the early days of the US where they relied upon the taxes of sales of certain goods. Services would be unable to be taxed effectively, and income for large corporate entities would be hard to tax (which would be a good thing IMO as corporations as it is don't really pay any taxes - they just push the expense on to the customer.)

Not only socialism is undermined by tax evasion.
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April 09, 2013, 06:50:06 PM
 #362

I think socialists should probably stay away from bitcoin if that is the case, namely due to how difficult it is to tax. Especially if people begin trading bitcoin over the tor network.

By investing in or even mining bitcoins, socialists would be contributing to the decline of socialism. You'd basically see a return to the early days of the US where they relied upon the taxes of sales of certain goods. Services would be unable to be taxed effectively, and income for large corporate entities would be hard to tax (which would be a good thing IMO as corporations as it is don't really pay any taxes - they just push the expense on to the customer.)

Not only socialism is undermined by tax evasion.
Yes, also Fascism, and Communism. Capitalism unaffected.

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April 09, 2013, 06:54:55 PM
 #363

I think socialists should probably stay away from bitcoin if that is the case, namely due to how difficult it is to tax. Especially if people begin trading bitcoin over the tor network.

By investing in or even mining bitcoins, socialists would be contributing to the decline of socialism. You'd basically see a return to the early days of the US where they relied upon the taxes of sales of certain goods. Services would be unable to be taxed effectively, and income for large corporate entities would be hard to tax (which would be a good thing IMO as corporations as it is don't really pay any taxes - they just push the expense on to the customer.)

Bitcoin is anti-socialism as far as I can see. Thank f*ck!

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Geddi
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April 09, 2013, 06:56:30 PM
 #364

Yes, also Fascism, and Communism. Capitalism unaffected.

Capitalism unaffected?  Shocked
Taxes may be overspent and spent on wrong subjects, but people(myself included) never really want to pay for stuff that everybody (but not themselves specifically) benefits from and survives with. Capitalism has that stuff too. That's taxes for me.
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April 09, 2013, 07:02:18 PM
 #365

Yes, also Fascism, and Communism. Capitalism unaffected.

Capitalism unaffected?  Shocked
Taxes may be overspent and spent on wrong subjects, but people(myself included) never really want to pay for stuff that everybody (but not themselves specifically) benefits from and survives with. That's taxes for me.

Taxation for the good of all is not a capitalistic ideal.  Why it exists in capitalistic societies is beyond me--well, that's a lie.  Most of it is spent of frivolous BS, such as SS, war, and the very people who propagate the tax (after all, a government worker is paid by the government, who gets its paycheck from taxation.  Ergo, those who make a living off tax, will always support tax.)  There is nothing tax pays for that could not be paid for by the individual.  Hell, even with taxes, you're still boned out of your cash; not only do I pay an officer's salary, I pay for him to give me a tickets and/or to take me to jail.  Wicked!  I always wanted to pay for someone to punish me.

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April 09, 2013, 07:02:43 PM
 #366

in a capitalistic/liberal/anarchistic/whatever society i would not be able to study math, because i would not have the money to do so.
https://www.khanacademy.org/
their lectures are only on first year university level... but some of it is useful.
But clearly you can study mathematics, all the way up to first year University level, for free. So to say that you would be unable to study at all is a bit disingenuous, is it not?
its still not the same as blackboards, and having a whole bunch of very clever people around to ask.

internet education is just not as good as real education(yet hopefully), and you are still not getting paid for studying, which means you are 'forced to' study after a full work day.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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April 09, 2013, 07:04:17 PM
 #367

I think socialists should probably stay away from bitcoin if that is the case, namely due to how difficult it is to tax. Especially if people begin trading bitcoin over the tor network.

By investing in or even mining bitcoins, socialists would be contributing to the decline of socialism. You'd basically see a return to the early days of the US where they relied upon the taxes of sales of certain goods. Services would be unable to be taxed effectively, and income for large corporate entities would be hard to tax (which would be a good thing IMO as corporations as it is don't really pay any taxes - they just push the expense on to the customer.)
do you know that some people, actually wants to pay taxes because they supports the system?

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
Mike Christ
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April 09, 2013, 07:06:01 PM
 #368

in a capitalistic/liberal/anarchistic/whatever society i would not be able to study math, because i would not have the money to do so.
https://www.khanacademy.org/
their lectures are only on first year university level... but some of it is useful.
But clearly you can study mathematics, all the way up to first year University level, for free. So to say that you would be unable to study at all is a bit disingenuous, is it not?
its still not the same as blackboards, and having a whole bunch of very clever people around to ask.

internet education is just not as good as real education(yet hopefully), and you are still not getting paid for studying, which means you are 'forced to' study after a full work day.

What the eff is study?  I've never studied a day in my life, and yet I know plenty--in fact, I know most of what I know from simple observation and the Internet.

Are you familiar with the term autodidact?  It's always a good idea to become one.

In your defense, my best friend says he cannot properly learn any subject without a teacher feeding him his lines.  So I suppose there's that.

Geddi
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April 09, 2013, 07:08:52 PM
 #369

not only do I pay an officer's salary, I pay for him to give me a tickets and/or to take me to jail.  Wicked!  I always wanted to pay for someone to punish me.
When you pay for something it gets done properly..  Grin

Some way capitalism is a great system but some other way one can not manage privatization of necessities like energy or water.
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April 09, 2013, 07:11:03 PM
 #370

Because who wants his country to become crappy like Norway, Sweden or Finland? Did you see the pictures? They even have snow because of all this socialism!
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April 09, 2013, 07:13:22 PM
 #371

Every region has its own crazy political delusion, europe has socialism, the us has those guys that want to ignore federal government and just shoot at everyone from their shack, who knows what that is about ?
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April 09, 2013, 07:14:49 PM
 #372

Yes, also Fascism, and Communism. Capitalism unaffected.

Capitalism unaffected?  Shocked
Taxes may be overspent and spent on wrong subjects, but people(myself included) never really want to pay for stuff that everybody (but not themselves specifically) benefits from and survives with. Capitalism has that stuff too. That's taxes for me.
No, it doesn't:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
Quote
Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of capital goods and most natural resources, with the goal of making a profit. Elements central to capitalism include capital accumulation, competitive markets, and a price system.

Perhaps you're thinking of State Capitalism.

its still not the same as blackboards, and having a whole bunch of very clever people around to ask.
This is true. But we also have discussion boards (for the clever people) and diagrams (which are probably better drawn than something whipped up in 5 minutes in front of the class).

do you know that some people, actually wants to pay taxes because they supports the system?
Wouldn't it be great to pick which programs you support, and not have to get the whole package, the welfare AND the bombs?

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kokjo
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April 09, 2013, 07:15:27 PM
 #373

What the eff is study?  I've never studied a day in my life, and yet I know plenty--in fact, I know most of what I know from simple observation and the Internet.

Are you familiar with the term autodidact?  It's always a good idea to become one.

In your defense, my best friend says he cannot properly learn any subject without a teacher feeding him his lines.  So I suppose there's that.
i have learned alot of stuff by my self too, BUT some stuff just needs to be explained.

and whole the thoroughness of math, is hard to learn by yourself(autodidact or not).

math is not hard to understand, but hard to do correct.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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April 09, 2013, 07:16:29 PM
 #374

do you know that some people, actually wants to pay taxes because they supports the system?
Wouldn't it be great to pick which programs you support, and not have to get the whole package, the welfare AND the bombs?
why don't you want welfare?

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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April 09, 2013, 07:17:59 PM
 #375

Every region has its own crazy political delusion, europe has socialism, the us has those guys that want to ignore federal government and just shoot at everyone from their shack, who knows what that is about ?

THERE YOU GO!

Each system have its advantages and disadvantages. The best system is the one you can modify depending on what your society needs. Staying closed-minded because of the "tag" on the system is utterly stupid.

I agree that when opportunities are plenty for 90% of the population, capitalism is really great! But when you have limited opportunities for a limited part of the population? You're not playing the same game anymore, you can't use the same tools.
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April 09, 2013, 07:19:23 PM
 #376

No, it doesn't:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
Perhaps you're thinking of State Capitalism.

 Embarrassed Can't argue that.
I probably meant some capitalistic mixed-economy.
myrkul
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April 09, 2013, 07:22:08 PM
 #377

do you know that some people, actually wants to pay taxes because they supports the system?
Wouldn't it be great to pick which programs you support, and not have to get the whole package, the welfare AND the bombs?
why don't you want welfare?
Are you implying I'm OK with the bombs? Or are you the one who pays into the system willingly, because you like blowing up brown people on the other side of the planet?

Read it again: Wouldn't it be great to pick which programs you support? To be able to pay to support people who need help, without having to ALSO pay for blowing up brown people on the other side of the planet?

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April 09, 2013, 07:27:39 PM
 #378

Good news, everyone!  When 3D printers become a household staple, millions of jobs will disappear!

Well, that's one perceived drawback of capitalism, anyway.  When there are no jobs, where will people work?  I suppose they'll have to resort to making their own work.  People will resort to doing things they like to do, like writing, or building stuff.  We're slowly working our way to a jobless economy, which makes many of these common economic systems pointless.  If we can create quality food cheaply by machine labor, we have solved 99 problems, but the state ain't one.

I apologize for that last statement; however, see here: Post-scarcity

We now have an abundance of matter and energy (perhaps not widescale, but at least in certain countries.)  All we need now is an abundance of smart people to put two and two together.

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April 09, 2013, 07:28:18 PM
 #379

do you know that some people, actually wants to pay taxes because they supports the system?
Wouldn't it be great to pick which programs you support, and not have to get the whole package, the welfare AND the bombs?
why don't you want welfare?
Are you implying I'm OK with the bombs? Or are you the one who pays into the system willingly, because you like blowing up brown people on the other side of the planet?

Read it again: Wouldn't it be great to pick which programs you support? To be able to pay to support people who need help, without having to ALSO pay for blowing up brown people on the other side of the planet?
but its fun to blow people up! (yes, im trolling hard now!)

yes it would be nice if we had a choice, thats why we have elections every 4 years(here in denmark). more direct democracy would be nice.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves and wiser people so full of doubts." -Bertrand Russell
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April 09, 2013, 07:28:51 PM
 #380

do you know that some people, actually wants to pay taxes because they supports the system?
Wouldn't it be great to pick which programs you support, and not have to get the whole package, the welfare AND the bombs?
why don't you want welfare?
Are you implying I'm OK with the bombs? Or are you the one who pays into the system willingly, because you like blowing up brown people on the other side of the planet?

Read it again: Wouldn't it be great to pick which programs you support? To be able to pay to support people who need help, without having to ALSO pay for blowing up brown people on the other side of the planet?
Exactly only buy the government programs you want.   Kind of like downloading the two good songs from the album and leaving the other 10 sucky ones

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