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Author Topic: Why do people in USA fear socialism so much?  (Read 32363 times)
exonomica
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May 28, 2013, 03:32:28 AM
 #621

USA fear socialism because this term was used by USSR to oppose global domination of USD debt economy,
Lets pick developed capitalistic countries like USA, Japan, they highly dependent on resources from Russia, Latins, Mid East, Africa, because the living standards based on exchange of highly marginal goods And USD debts to low paid resources and low paid works.
 
socialism is a zero sum game, capitalism is not.

Soviet socialism is not the type of socialism what it had to be like. I'll say US with Obama administration is more socialistic then soviet economy. Still its not gonna last long, because debt collapse is very close.
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May 28, 2013, 03:38:15 AM
 #622

Soviet socialism is not the type of socialism what it had to be like. I'll say US with Obama administration is more socialistic then soviet economy. Still its not gonna last long, because debt collapse is very close.

I agree, the economy will collapse and anyone holding government money is going to be severely hurt.

If only there was another currency that would not be affected by such a collapse that we could move to.

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May 28, 2013, 07:38:49 AM
 #623

USA fear socialism because this term was used by USSR to oppose global domination of USD debt economy,
Lets pick developed capitalistic countries like USA, Japan, they highly dependent on resources from Russia, Latins, Mid East, Africa, because the living standards based on exchange of highly marginal goods And USD debts to low paid resources and low paid works.
 
socialism is a zero sum game, capitalism is not.

Soviet socialism is not the type of socialism what it had to be like. I'll say US with Obama administration is more socialistic then soviet economy. Still its not gonna last long, because debt collapse is very close.

Read Marx's 10 planks.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm

Quote
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c,

It looks to me like the Soviets completed most of the 10.  The US still has a long way to go.  As long as you can legally buy an iPhone or an Android, the US is breaching 1, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9. 

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May 28, 2013, 11:03:17 AM
 #624

It looks to me like the Soviets completed most of the 10.  The US still has a long way to go.  As long as you can legally buy an iPhone or an Android, the US is breaching 1, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9.  

or here is another way to interpret it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx1M9owfRt8 (skip to 2:50 if you want to get to the point)

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If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited? Is there any process, procedure or ritual through which an immoral action can be legitimately transformed into a moral one with out changing the character of the action itself?
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May 28, 2013, 11:55:06 AM
 #625

It looks to me like the Soviets completed most of the 10.  The US still has a long way to go.  As long as you can legally buy an iPhone or an Android, the US is breaching 1, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9.  

or here is another way to interpret it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx1M9owfRt8 (skip to 2:50 if you want to get to the point)

Sorry don't waste time on videos.  Everything important is put in writing.

exonomica
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May 28, 2013, 04:10:34 PM
 #626

USA fear socialism because this term was used by USSR to oppose global domination of USD debt economy,
Lets pick developed capitalistic countries like USA, Japan, they highly dependent on resources from Russia, Latins, Mid East, Africa, because the living standards based on exchange of highly marginal goods And USD debts to low paid resources and low paid works.
 
socialism is a zero sum game, capitalism is not.

Soviet socialism is not the type of socialism what it had to be like. I'll say US with Obama administration is more socialistic then soviet economy. Still its not gonna last long, because debt collapse is very close.

Read Marx's 10 planks.

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch02.htm

Quote
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, &c,

It looks to me like the Soviets completed most of the 10.  The US still has a long way to go.  As long as you can legally buy an iPhone or an Android, the US is breaching 1, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9.  

its manifesto of "young" marx kommunism, it was articulated in period of wild capitalism when poor was poor and black was black slave, 20 years before his main work - Kapital.

what is most important that ussr have developed early philosophical theories of romantic marxism to industrial developed level of socialistic economy without money debt principe of western model. Its the same with Capitalism of XIX century, it have changed to neocapitalism where middle class exists, middle class were important to show advantage of western system vs soviet equality of masses system.

I'll say, what western society think socialism is (= bolsheviks kommunism) result of banksters mass propaganda machine.


Quote
It looks to me like the Soviets completed most of the 10.  The US still has a long way to go.  As long as you can legally buy an iPhone or an Android, the US is breaching 1, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9.
wiki:
Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy.

That is - USA have more social ownership (stock market of US citizens, direct government money distributoin during 2008- period, government regulation of finance organisations (aka bailout)) then soviets and more cooperative management then soviets (democracy, transparent management, market demand law that influence corporations).

Still one element have to be done - liquidation of parasitic financial stratum.
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May 28, 2013, 04:30:07 PM
 #627

...snip...

Quote
It looks to me like the Soviets completed most of the 10.  The US still has a long way to go.  As long as you can legally buy an iPhone or an Android, the US is breaching 1, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9.
wiki:
Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy.

That is - USA have more social ownership (stock market of US citizens) then soviets and more cooperative management then soviets (democracy, transparent management, market demand law that influence corporations).

So you think a stock market and democracy are the hallmarks of socialism?  OK then yay socialism! 

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May 28, 2013, 04:34:42 PM
 #628

...snip...

Quote
It looks to me like the Soviets completed most of the 10.  The US still has a long way to go.  As long as you can legally buy an iPhone or an Android, the US is breaching 1, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9.
wiki:
Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management of the economy.

That is - USA have more social ownership (stock market of US citizens) then soviets and more cooperative management then soviets (democracy, transparent management, market demand law that influence corporations).

So you think a stock market and democracy are the hallmarks of socialism?  OK then yay socialism!  

Government fear to say this word: "Socialism",
still US Obama capitalism is more socialistic then soviet.
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May 28, 2013, 05:01:12 PM
 #629

...snip...

So you think a stock market and democracy are the hallmarks of socialism?  OK then yay socialism!  

Government fear to say this word: "Socialism",
still US Obama capitalism is more socialistic then soviet.

Want to know something funny?  Here in the UK we have socialists who want to win elections.  And they would say you are an idiot for thinking that the US is a socialist state.  They regard the US the way Martin Luther regarded the Roman Catholic Church.

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May 28, 2013, 05:22:02 PM
 #630

 Grin
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May 28, 2013, 05:29:31 PM
 #631

...snip...

So you think a stock market and democracy are the hallmarks of socialism?  OK then yay socialism!  

Government fear to say this word: "Socialism",
still US Obama capitalism is more socialistic then soviet.

Want to know something funny?  Here in the UK we have socialists who want to win elections.  And they would say you are an idiot for thinking that the US is a socialist state.  They regard the US the way Martin Luther regarded the Roman Catholic Church.
yes, next time they say idiot to muslim or Russian, or somebody else, its not change things - banksters own you and your family, because you are migrant or descendant of migrants who never climb from debt pit.

And that has what to do with socialism? 

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May 28, 2013, 05:32:39 PM
 #632

...snip...

So you think a stock market and democracy are the hallmarks of socialism?  OK then yay socialism!  

Government fear to say this word: "Socialism",
still US Obama capitalism is more socialistic then soviet.

Want to know something funny?  Here in the UK we have socialists who want to win elections.  And they would say you are an idiot for thinking that the US is a socialist state.  They regard the US the way Martin Luther regarded the Roman Catholic Church.
yes, next time they say idiot to muslim or Russian, or somebody else, its not change things - banksters own you and your family, because you are migrant or descendant of migrants who never climb from debt pit.

And that has what to do with socialism? 
its has to? i dont care, i not live in west, im free from this system.
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May 28, 2013, 05:36:08 PM
 #633

...snip...

And that has what to do with socialism? 
its has to? i dont care, i not live in west, im free from this system.

Forgive me if I appear dense but we are discussing socialism in the US.  What exactly is the point you want to make?

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May 28, 2013, 05:45:08 PM
 #634

...snip...

And that has what to do with socialism? 
its has to? i dont care, i not live in west, im free from this system.

Forgive me if I appear dense but we are discussing socialism in the US.  What exactly is the point you want to make?
man, i dont want argue, i have no time for this. My point is there is no white / black, all definitions in our world are derivatives of propaganda, only results and tendencies have meaning - better or worse. I pointed that socialism feared by elites in west because that was result of propaganda, thats all.
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May 28, 2013, 05:48:16 PM
 #635

...snip...

And that has what to do with socialism?  
its has to? i dont care, i not live in west, im free from this system.

Forgive me if I appear dense but we are discussing socialism in the US.  What exactly is the point you want to make?
man, i dont want argue, i have no time for this. My point is there is no white / black, all definitions in our world are derivatives of propaganda, only results and tendencies have meaning - better or worse. I pointed that socialism feared by elites in west because that was result of propaganda, thats all.

Ah - that it wasn't real socialism.  Yes I agree.  When I see the likes of Newt Gingrich screaming about socialism in the USA, its obviously just a blabbermouth looking for publicity and spouting hysterical propaganda to get it.

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May 28, 2013, 08:30:32 PM
 #636

I don't understand, maybe I'm just too young with whole cold-war mentality born just around collapse. Sure communism didn't work out very well.

But, I do prefer some socialism to pure capitalism. So I don't realy get this whole fear of it in USA, it can't be all bad or is it? Can someone explain it to me?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Bloc
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May 28, 2013, 09:04:46 PM
 #637

I don't understand, maybe I'm just too young with whole cold-war mentality born just around collapse. Sure communism didn't work out very well.

But, I do prefer some socialism to pure capitalism. So I don't realy get this whole fear of it in USA, it can't be all bad or is it? Can someone explain it to me?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Bloc

So are we done here? Should I just go ahead and lock this one?

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May 29, 2013, 01:53:20 AM
 #638

I'll say US with Obama administration is more socialistic then soviet economy.

Either you have never lived in Soviet Union, or you know absolutely nothing about what it's like in US. The two don't even compare.

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May 29, 2013, 04:07:48 AM
 #639

Socialism is disgusting. Socialism is the government TELLING you what to do, and how to live your life. Theres NO freedom of choice, if your a farmer your staying a farmer, never getting a raise or moving up in life. Theres no personalization so all cars, clothes, food in communist country is exact same. Only people benefiting are the peasents turned wealthy tsar leaders ( communist party). This is why US had so many confrontations with soviet union, they are a unjust totalarian state.

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May 29, 2013, 04:26:35 AM
 #640

Altruism (socialism) is not nearly as strong a motivator for productivity as greed (capitalism). The less capitalism in a society there is, the more equality there is, but there is less wealth for the socialists to redistribute.
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