[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread

[getmining.info]

Just to let you know, there is someone scamming over here I think:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470052.0

[utopianfuture]

Just to let you know, there is someone scamming over here I think:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=470052.0

Well what can I do ? it is self-moderated thread and it is Bitcointalk's policy. We will move to our own forum at some points though, so these behaviors can be avoided.
Still, I think people do need to learn how to read properly before starting sending money or anything. The scam is so obvious that I won't bother that much  so far.

[jdh015232]

Ya that is sad if anyone falls for that scammer offering in for cheap

[makoto1337]

Nice post yurkomik. I like your ideas very much, I too think we need a market where we can trade/buy real goods with NEM. Without a proper market, NEM is just another dead coin in the long-run( 1 yrs?)  

As of this moment, two events are likely to happen with the release of NEM
Scenario 1: NEM gets released, people start to rush to dump their coins to make a quick buck leading to a dead cypto.
Scenario 2: Most people hoard their coins for forging, unintentionally  artificially inflating price ( NXT?) but susceptible to big price volatility with the smallest trade activity,rendering the currency useless.

Money was created to facilitate trade between goods and services, with cryptos we are creating money without goods and services. 99% of all alt currencies will be dead in a year all due to lack of a market, lets make NEM the exception to the rule. We really do need participants for this experimental currency to succeed not silent stake holders.

Let me be one of the first to volunteer , My name is Pasang I own a small hotel in Bhutan. I could offer my rooms in NEM but since most of u guys are probably not in my locality it would be pointless, instead I would be willing to post 10 items for sale every month for sale priced in NEM on its release for the next four months to get the ball rolling.

I hope more of you will join me in this endeavor, We are all potential NEM coin millionaires and now it is up to us to make this million actually worth a million or just worthless digital numbers.  
 

We have been bouncing around ideas to create a market structure for real goods. One of the problems is that of trust. There has to be a mechanism for feedback for both the buyer and seller, that is built into the system. I hope to include something like this for NEM in the future.

Agreed! If we can get a reputation system that is linked to the account alias we will have huge advantage against all other coins!

@Jaguar: How do you feel about storing reputations in the blockchain ? One could pay 1 NEM to store a -1 or +1 to a specific address. I know changing address is not exactly hard but at least they'd have to change address and people tend to be more cautios with new addresses. Also maybe the reputation could be transfered to the new address ? Like marking the coins that are owned with a rep instead of an address ?

Just thinking out lout here

Storing positive feedback won't work because a nefarious person could just boost their feedback arbitrarily, especially if the price is really low. We really need something that would damage the value of NEM held by a nefarious user, such as shitcoins: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=988

[makoto1337]

oo           : NEM evolution at work

I know its a bold claim but maybe we can pull it off.

I do like this one! 

I think it'd be cool to have some wordplays that include nem. I'm sure many know HIMYM and the "Bro" wordplays like "Bropocalypse Now" and all the rest.
Can't think of one right now though.

Nempocalypse Now
Apocalypse NEM

[makoto1337]

You can all read up on POI in the dev plan here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NhxTyi4Eo2D_1m1Ca8zvzQr0_RB0dgM2VuWXAIzcS-I/edit?pli=1

As I understand it it's pretty much a combination of 3 things. PON + POS + taking transactions into account = POI.
I think it's a very elegant and fair approach.

1. You get something for running a node and are therefore providing infrastructure to the network.
2. You get something for owning coins which makes you trustworthy to some extent because why would you want to hurt a currency that you own yourself ?
3. You get something for being a heavy user of the currency i.e. actually using it.

The point that someone could just circle coins is a good one but I don't think it's that much of a problem. For one you'd have to run different nodes as well because afaik only transactions between actually different nodes are being considered. It's not hard to run multiple nodes but it provides determent to some extent.
Secondly it really depends on the balance between the 3 factors of POI how harmful such an attack could actually be.  

Jaguar has a lot to think about

Yes, POI is a combination of both the wealth a person has and their importance to the network of accounts (the economy). Because we use the concept of coin-days, it won't be possible to just circulate money between your own accounts, because the weight of the money will reset to zero every time. Also, we are working on detecting these cliques in the network and ignoring them or giving them a low weight. Thus doing anti-social activity like that would actually hurt your importance to the network.

I think POI can be more durable them POS, because in POS a government or large entity with massive resources could buy up a lot of the currency and then crash the system. The market cap of NXT is 56,112,361 USD right now, so it is very possible that some rich individual who wanted to could shutdown NXT today. With POI, just buying lots of the currency will not let you do this. You would have to actually buy lots of stuff and sell lots of stuff in the system, in addition to having a lot of money. It would take a lot of time and if there are enough users, it would not be possible for any single entity to do this.

[caspar]

I think the new registered users, can not join.
Obviously, the 99% are sockpuppet
This is very unfair.
Should immediately stop.

[dzarmush]

Blue for smart, stable, global.
Green for eco-friendly.
Red for power.

[wo24-7]

UP has already commented on this when other users were saying the same thing you just put. They have been advertising, as well as word of mouth, and other user's friends. I know 3 of my friends recently joined and sent in the 0.75 BTC required. They had no idea about crypto currency or even Bitcoin until I told them and I am even new to all this. Do you expect people who never heard of crytpo currency or NEM to automatically be a veteran user on this forum? I don't post anything but I read everyday on here and I have been ever since I heard of NEM. Doesn't make me a sock puppet account or a multiple stake holder of NEM. If they are buying more stakes than what they are allowed and trying to get away with it than hopefully they will be caught and the funds returned but if not than there is nothing we can do about it.

[dzarmush]

UP has already commented on this when other users were saying the same thing you just put. They have been advertising, as well as word of mouth, and other user's friends. I know 3 of my friends recently joined and sent in the 0.75 BTC required. They had no idea about crypto currency or even Bitcoin until I told them and I am even new to all this. Do you expect people who never heard of crytpo currency or NEM to automatically be a veteran user on this forum? I don't post anything but I read everyday on here and I have been ever since I heard of NEM. Doesn't make me a sock puppet account or a multiple stake holder of NEM. If they are buying more stakes than what they are allowed and trying to get away with it than hopefully they will be caught and the funds returned but if not than there is nothing we can do about it.

Btw I recently reconsidered my position concerning multiple accounts after I sent a link to NEM thread to all my friends and even suggested to give them neccessary amount of Nxt to buy a stake. Do you know what happenned? Nothing! Most of them were so fucking lazy that they didn't do anything. I even had to buy a stake for my own brother because he didn't buy it himself. He could buy a stake for 40 Nxt and I bought it for him for 500 Nxt! So I guess Nem ipo is just a reflection of life.

[dzarmush]

Globe made of coins.

[suppow]

interested.

It is not the thread.
"interested" is over, you have to pay some fees and the more you wait, the fees get higher.

Also the new comers account like him must be dismissed.
It is easy to create hundred account and get hundred times more NEM.

My apologies, I misunderstood the original post.  I have expressed interest on the original post to correct my mistake, and why should I be dismissed, that's incredible arrogance on your part superresistant.  I think everyone should be treated equally. I missed out on the original NXT stake, and as a result bought NXT to support it, and am an active member on nextcoin.org.  I think everyone deserves a fair chance to be a stakeholder.

To quote the first post:

"Completely Fair Distribution - Equal Shares for ALL

No arbitrary rule of distribution. No dictator to tell you how to do things. The most egalitarian coin. Show your love to NEM".

Completely Fair Distribution - Equal Shares for ALL

In fact, it is just a relative fair distribution. Sock puppets are unavoidable. However, for the relative fairness, NEM team should merge the same BTT id and same NXT addr because these are obvious opposite to the spirit of fairness.

@utopianfuture  How do you think?

[utopianfuture]

interested.

It is not the thread.
"interested" is over, you have to pay some fees and the more you wait, the fees get higher.

Also the new comers account like him must be dismissed.
It is easy to create hundred account and get hundred times more NEM.

My apologies, I misunderstood the original post.  I have expressed interest on the original post to correct my mistake, and why should I be dismissed, that's incredible arrogance on your part superresistant.  I think everyone should be treated equally. I missed out on the original NXT stake, and as a result bought NXT to support it, and am an active member on nextcoin.org.  I think everyone deserves a fair chance to be a stakeholder.

To quote the first post:

"Completely Fair Distribution - Equal Shares for ALL

No arbitrary rule of distribution. No dictator to tell you how to do things. The most egalitarian coin. Show your love to NEM".

Completely Fair Distribution - Equal Shares for ALL

In fact, it is just a relative fair distribution. Sock puppets are unavoidable. However, for the relative fairness, NEM team should merge the same BTT id and same NXT addr because these are obvious opposite to the spirit of fairness.

@utopianfuture  How do you think?

Fair distribution, not completely. Equal shares for ALL (accounts) is literally true by design. Not sure I have said many times "My goal is to spread NEM widely and equally to many people (but not perfectly equal)", NEM's claim is fairly modest and we just try to do our best with the fundraising's design and goals. Surely someone else could do better in a certain "fair" or"equality" aspect. It is not my purpose to compete in these kind of claims. We are "no envy" movement.

Now someone please takes the last spot so that I can lock the fundraising thread.  

[utopianfuture]

@Moloch: it is not too bad. I do some other things and I am staying up for another hour or so. After that I will go to sleep and let the thread run until tomorrow.

[dzarmush]

@Moloch: it is not too bad. I do some other things and I am staying up for another hour or so. After that I will go to sleep and let the thread run until tomorrow.

I'd gladly take the last spot if it wasn't against the rules )

It's good to see that the whole Nem ipo thing was successful and you raised almost 1M Nxt. I think this fact itself means a lot. Plenty of people believe in Nem and it's the most important for a new currency.

[utopianfuture]

@Moloch: it is not too bad. I do some other things and I am staying up for another hour or so. After that I will go to sleep and let the thread run until tomorrow.

I'd gladly take the last spot if it wasn't against the rules )

It's good to see that the whole Nem ipo thing was successful and you raised almost 1M Nxt. I think this fact itself means a lot. Plenty of people believe in Nem and it's the most important for a new currency.

I think we should wait for a new person. It would be fun to make a guess veteran or new account ?

[dzarmush]

@Moloch: it is not too bad. I do some other things and I am staying up for another hour or so. After that I will go to sleep and let the thread run until tomorrow.

I'd gladly take the last spot if it wasn't against the rules )

It's good to see that the whole Nem ipo thing was successful and you raised almost 1M Nxt. I think this fact itself means a lot. Plenty of people believe in Nem and it's the most important for a new currency.

I think we should wait for a new person. It would be fun to make a guess veteran or new account ?

Absolutely. Btw the fact that the last spot is not yet taken means that there are not so many sockpuppets as some people think. Otherwise there would be a battle for the last spot.

[dzarmush]

Time to have some beer! 

[Jaguar0625]

Nice post yurkomik. I like your ideas very much, I too think we need a market where we can trade/buy real goods with NEM. Without a proper market, NEM is just another dead coin in the long-run( 1 yrs?)  

As of this moment, two events are likely to happen with the release of NEM
Scenario 1: NEM gets released, people start to rush to dump their coins to make a quick buck leading to a dead cypto.
Scenario 2: Most people hoard their coins for forging, unintentionally  artificially inflating price ( NXT?) but susceptible to big price volatility with the smallest trade activity,rendering the currency useless.

Money was created to facilitate trade between goods and services, with cryptos we are creating money without goods and services. 99% of all alt currencies will be dead in a year all due to lack of a market, lets make NEM the exception to the rule. We really do need participants for this experimental currency to succeed not silent stake holders.

Let me be one of the first to volunteer , My name is Pasang I own a small hotel in Bhutan. I could offer my rooms in NEM but since most of u guys are probably not in my locality it would be pointless, instead I would be willing to post 10 items for sale every month for sale priced in NEM on its release for the next four months to get the ball rolling.

I hope more of you will join me in this endeavor, We are all potential NEM coin millionaires and now it is up to us to make this million actually worth a million or just worthless digital numbers.  
 

We have been bouncing around ideas to create a market structure for real goods. One of the problems is that of trust. There has to be a mechanism for feedback for both the buyer and seller, that is built into the system. I hope to include something like this for NEM in the future.

Agreed! If we can get a reputation system that is linked to the account alias we will have huge advantage against all other coins!

@Jaguar: How do you feel about storing reputations in the blockchain ? One could pay 1 NEM to store a -1 or +1 to a specific address. I know changing address is not exactly hard but at least they'd have to change address and people tend to be more cautios with new addresses. Also maybe the reputation could be transfered to the new address ? Like marking the coins that are owned with a rep instead of an address ?

Just thinking out lout here

Storing positive feedback won't work because a nefarious person could just boost their feedback arbitrarily, especially if the price is really low. We really need something that would damage the value of NEM held by a nefarious user, such as shitcoins: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=988

I agree with makato. In order to really get a reputation system to work, we would need to have coins "infected" with the reputation of their holding account. This would prevent people from being able to "reset" their reputation by opening a new account and paying a small transaction fee. We could also have a concept of reputation aging whereby the reputation of recently acquired coins move towards the original reputation of the receiving account. In this way, coins in low reputation accounts that are traded to high reputation accounts would eventually lose that stigma. Of course, this whole reputation system would have the side-effect of making NEM coins less equal since there would probably be more demand for NEM coins from high-reputation accounts than low-reputation accounts

[Jaguar0625]

Interesting updates from a few of the other "NXT clones":

PiNX:

For details left unexplained, PiNX can’t lead this project.

In the end, all I have given you is a vision.  It is up to community to make that vision a reality.

Goodbye.

NEX:

Please do not post here about 'being interested'.

You need to go to http://www.nexcoin.net  to submit your interest.

My mistake! I have already given my email, I just saw everyone else doing it so I assumed you had to to claim your stake.

By the way, how many coins will NEX have? And is there an ETA for release?

100 million on release,  1 billion total. 

3 weeks.

Are there any other notable ones?