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Author Topic: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread  (Read 661421 times)
xtester
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May 25, 2014, 01:54:47 PM
 #7961


Outstanding job! It seems we currently find ourselves in the midst of some kind of cambrian explosion in the crypto world. Moreover, a lot of noise confuses people causing them to impulsively focus on all the wrong things when judging how projects evolve.  However, in the midst of all this NEM seems to emerge as an utterly distinct kind of creature. One that seems to be steadily and decisively evolving and may turn out to be a unique black swan.
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May 25, 2014, 02:01:50 PM
 #7962

What if a whale or shark buys a bunch of NEM on the AE or auction?

What if the whale and shark buys bunch of Nem after it's released?   If anyone starts buying too many stakes on AE, the price is going to jump up pretty high. It's not as if there are infinite stakes on AE. The number is just over 100 so far, and not all would be even selling.

I doubt anyone would be crazy enough to dump all his Nxt to buy stakes .. as Nxt actually is fully functional  right now (unlike Nem)

Nomi, Shan, Adnan, Noshi, Nxt, Adn Khn
NXT-GZYP-FMRT-FQ9K-3YQGS
https://github.com/Lafihh/encryptiontest
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May 25, 2014, 02:40:15 PM
 #7963

Good decision UF. Better to wait a couple of days more rather than to regret later.

+1
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May 25, 2014, 02:49:34 PM
 #7964

@UtopianFuture:

Well said.

To someone who wants to participate, but found out too late, you give me hope for a fair process to include newcomers.

Even though  many believe that nothing could be fairer than an open market, the unfairness is in the timing that different people become aware of, and involved in that market.

looking forward to a dignified solution.
Pentamon

http://www.oraforum.org  *  Yoda: "One stake to every human give!"
utopianfuture (OP)
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May 25, 2014, 02:59:59 PM
Last edit: May 25, 2014, 03:20:55 PM by utopianfuture
 #7965

I like the way things are communicated. No problems here for waiting a bit longer.

@Utopianfuture: We stakeholders could however use a 'rough' timescale.

Furthermore, if you need my assistance in helping you, or the devteam, you guys know where to reach me.

Hi thanks for understanding. The alpha is pretty close and in fact core dev. are testing the network currently. However, we do not plan to release a bare-bone blockchain right away (open alpha should be a bare-bone blockchain and comparable to other coin official releases), but add more advanced features to be tested on the beta. So it will take a some more times (a month or more) until the official launch but that will differentiate us from all other coins. I think Jaguar0625 will address this after the open Alpha .


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utopianfuture (OP)
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May 25, 2014, 03:03:49 PM
 #7966


Outstanding job! It seems we currently find ourselves in the midst of some kind of cambrian explosion in the crypto world. Moreover, a lot of noise confuses people causing them to impulsively focus on all the wrong things when judging how projects evolve.  However, in the midst of all this NEM seems to emerge as an utterly distinct kind of creature. One that seems to be steadily and decisively evolving and may turn out to be a unique black swan.

+1. But do not so worried about the timing because we are going to release full version before the next great Bitcoin surge Smiley it is not worth it to rush a release in a downtrend.


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May 25, 2014, 03:12:49 PM
 #7967

Also who will answer the question - what is the real progress? 35 devs - give us an answer please. Or maybe you just wait for NXT success and all bugs fixed to copy it?

--
supporter
sorry, but thats... extremely... stupid...
utopianfuture (OP)
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May 25, 2014, 04:12:54 PM
 #7968

Do you think NEM's market cap can surpass NXT, which is 700,000 btc now?
ps: one stake of NEM = 70000/3000=23.33 BTC!

No too early. There is still a ton of things to do.


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mrvegad
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May 25, 2014, 04:26:57 PM
 #7969

No need to hurry, I have no problem with waiting a bit longer.

same here, in fact I am still waiting for my hover car  Grin
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May 25, 2014, 04:30:41 PM
 #7970

Do you think NEM's market cap can surpass NXT, which is 700,000 btc now?
ps: one stake of NEM = 70000/3000=23.33 BTC!

NEM have 4000 stakes, not 3000

IOTA
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May 25, 2014, 04:34:53 PM
Last edit: May 26, 2014, 02:11:04 AM by michael8888
 #7971


Chinese translation is done.

译者声明:本作品的翻译版本仅供个人学习欣赏之用,不得用于任何商业目的,不得以任何方式修改本作品,基于此产生的法律责任本人不承担连带责任。(请以英文原贴为准,并回复它:https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=426303.8380

NEM开发征求意见稿(草案)

1,请参见NEM过往及将来发布的所有的管理信息.
2,至现在的利益相关者们:核心开发团队的开发方案的目标是创新设计最好NEM区块链,以及在核心开发团队角度来看所应具有的功能及易用性.这导致一些利益相关者不赞同,无法沟通,不能相互理解.在这种情况下,请您退款,这样我们可以好聚好散.如果利益相关者没有投入资金,那么,开发团队可以拒绝返还资金.
3.至投资者:如果你想从当前的利益相关者或是NEM的公开拍卖中,购买新的份额.请仔细地的看这个意见稿,请您充份评估认识到这个投资的高风险性,及你承担投资风险的能力.
4,有关NEM的相关信息,请自行收集.开发团队没有义务提供额外的信息,诸如:程序发布的确切时间,或是团队成员的个人信息等等.

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May 25, 2014, 05:32:42 PM
 #7972



just in case people would miss the link:

NEM summary: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1A9p6QZcUoDvezVMUsp2kYaF8g_jTNPFPL5e3Tli-jaI/edit#gid=0

NemusExMāchinā
Catapult docs: https://docs.symbol.dev
github: https://github.com/symbol
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May 25, 2014, 05:38:50 PM
 #7973

Hey guys,

hitbtc.com looks very very nice!
if NEM was listed there from the beginning would be awesome!

perhaps utopianfuture can try?




https://i.imgur.com/adNbBEr.png


I never read about this exchange.
Is this a new one?

Would be better to hit some of those important and well-known exchanges like dgex, mintpal, btc-e, bter.com, wouldn't it?
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May 25, 2014, 06:32:23 PM
 #7974

Cross post to the asset exchange thread and I am truly sorry.

---------------------------------------

Dear NEM stakeholder community,

I apologize for making some of you disappointed but I decide to hold off the asset exchange listing for at least a couple of days until more information about NEM and its governance structure could be provided.

The reason for that is because I realized involving new investors is a qualitative change in NEM organizational structure and that needs to be handed with more transparency and disclosure. So far NEM has been conceptualized as a voluntary association in which stakeholders are participants and contributors to the formation of a new decentralized movement. In that conceptualization, I am comfortable in handling participant complaints with a simple refund suggestion. In that conceptualization, no one loses when he doesn't like what the development team is doing and can voluntarily withdraw. We as a team could also have the right to refuse certain participants who are deem not beneficial (sockpuppets for example). This phase has been dubbed "a call for participation" (it is not an IPO sorry) for these rationales.

This phase was over when the final stakeholder was published. No more stakeholders will be added. Now we are going to transition to a new phase in which investors can come in via  sales from the current stakeholders and public auction. I think they deserve to know more what future governance of the system will look like. So before investors are welcomed in, I would like to publish at least a preliminary draft of the Development Contract to the agreement of all current stakeholders. So the time during the asset exchange listing postponement will be used for that process. The process will include: the development team publishing a preliminary draft of the Development Contract; current stakeholders commenting and criticizing the Development Contract; majority of current stakeholders agreeing on the Development Contract and the rest requesting a refund and leave.

While I believe at this point the shares of the current stakeholders are theirs to control and technically asset listing is for the current stakeholder selling a part of his shares. However, we as a team cannot afford officiating the sale without performing our obligation in a full disclosure of what we plan to do with the development shares and development reserves. Hence, the postponement of the listing. I have been preparing materials for the Development Contract for a while and will be able to publish a preliminary draft very soon.

UtopianFuture      

sounds very reasonable!

New Economy Movement (N.E.M.) Supporter
http://www.ournem.com
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May 25, 2014, 07:04:08 PM
Last edit: May 29, 2014, 05:54:06 AM by xtester
 #7975

NEM Marketing Proposal

Here are some thoughts I have regarding NEM marketing side.

Marketing and human nature

The more we study human nature we seem to discover that man is not as rational as he thought. In fact, he is invariably guided by a combination of conscious, subconscious, emotions and biases which often leads to decisions that are at best irrational and at worst very damaging for individuals and society in general. In a utopian world, we would only have to build a great piece of technology and people would rush to adopt it immediately, simply because it would be in their best interest. In our world, however, it seems it has become increasingly hard for people to make sense of the world. Not only that, but even when people understand what’s wrong and what they need to do, they rarely have the power to act in accordance to what they think.

Here’s the point where good marketing comes in. There was a time when people believed they could solve big problems just by pointing the way toward a solution. As we can see now, the decision dynamics of humanity is a nearly impossibly complex mechanism that is rarely advancing in the right direction. So if we want to change something important for the better, we simply cannot leave things to randomness and inertia. The question then is, can we change the course of things, albeit in a small yet instrumental way? And if so, how?

Making it simple and sexy

I think the bitcoin story, though still at its very beginning, can offer some very useful and powerful lessons as to how this may be done, and indeed, confirm this is really possible. Indeed, consider that bitcoin has achieved the current status lacking both simplicity and sexyness. When those will be added(and I know a lot of people are working on that now) I think bitcoin will probably go to a whole other level.

In fact there may be an even better example from which one could learn some important things. Consider the story of Elon Musk, who is arguably one of the most important entrepreneurs/engineer/ inventor alive and apparently a billionaire genius.1 As he understood where we are today and what are some of the most important problems/threats we could face in the future, he came up with some ideas and plans as to how this problems could be solved and threats could be transformed into powerful innovation for the benefit of humanity. One of the problems he figured is that auto industry was advancing in the wrong direction because of unsustainable production and consumption of energy(Pollution and climate damage with potentially destructive consequences for the long term and high consumption of relatively scarce resources). He also figured that arguably for the immediate future the solution would lay in electric cars. The biggest problem with electric cars was their perception. Who wants them?! They’re slow, ugly, unreliable, low range, boring and unsexy. So even if you would make an electric car, you could not beat people into buying it, nobody would. Or at least, nobody until they learned about Tesla Motors.2 Elon musk figured that the most effective way to solve the problem would be to radically redefine the perception about electric cars by creating the first compelling electric car ever built that would capture the imagination of people. It should be better in almost every aspect than its gasoline competitors3 but most important of all, the car should be sexy, irresistibly sexy. This is how the burden of psychological hard work has changed from the customer to the inventor.  An irresistibly sexy product has been created and all the customer needs to do is follow his basic instincts, passively catalyzing the solution for a very important problem in the process.

An antifragile solution

It seems the solutions offered until now are very fragile precisely because they are inherently dependent on a highly unstable variable, the human nature. But think for a second, what if we could engineer a meta-solution, one that could solve or isolate a much bigger problem which would in turn render us resilient or even better yet, antifragile to human nature?

How would that look in reality? Well, instead of asking of people to use their will power, self-discipline and invest a great deal of intellectual and psychological effort to fight a long war with the current economic and banking system, we should try to put in a great deal of thought at the beginning and design an irresistible, almost addictive product that would drive the way to decentralization at the greatest speed precisely when people would lack any kind of will power and self-discipline and would rather act instinctively and impulsively following their blind desires.

The tipping point


Lets say we could engineer such a product, well in that case, our only target would be to reach a tipping point. It would be reached when enough mass and speed would unleash an exponential growth period. That is the point when epidemics become pandemics, when growth explodes in such a way that it virtually becomes unstoppable. Beyond that point there won't be any need for us.

A tale of mass adoption

If there would be a worthy goal for NEM, it would certainly be mass adoption. In fact if mass adoption of NEM would happen, at least part of all the problems regarding current unsustainable economic systems would be solved in the process. It would seem the best way to start working on NEM would be with this final goal in mind. Picture a utopian future where NEM mass adoption has already happened. Now look closely at that future, what do you see? All you have to do now is reason backwards from there or reverse-engineer the process to understand what would have had to happen in order for NEM to reach that point.

Although there are a lot of things that are very blurry about that version of the future, at least some things are crystal clear:
- We have radically redefined the perception about crypto-currency by shifting from this complex geeky thing to making it the simplest, safest and fastest way to use money and transfer value.
- We have made the complex technological part almost invisible and came up with some simple and useful gadgets/devices which would allow us to do everything we need.
- We have gradually removed all impediments(physical or psychological) toward mass adoption – including thinking about it.
- Nobody cares how it’s even called anymore because it just works and everybody uses it.
- We have stopped showing average people technical specs and features and created a simple story to capture their imagination and outline the great benefits they have when using our system, because we figured that’s the only thing they care about.
- We have created an abundant ecosystem and seamlessly integrated NEM to naturally be used for everything we do in the world.
- We made money simple and sexy, all while solving some of the most critical economic problems in the process.

I understand that for mass adoption to happen, multiple paradigm shifts and pandemic like adoption rates are necessary at some point, however I think the idea is still worth a thought experiment.

Maybe there is a way we can somehow orchestrate these things to reach that outcome, maybe NEM is one of the next black swans.

Here are some steps we could start with now in order to take that version of the future closer to reality:

1. Outline a basic plan/roudmap toward mass adoption(or whatever our target is) and establish some basic guidelines in the form of checkpoints toward which the community could aim.

2. Focus on establishing our brand:

Action:

- answer these questions: who are we?(currency, store of value, payment system, a movement to enable all of that and a lot more?) what are 3 terms that best describe the benefits we bring to the end user(E.g. simplicity, financial freedom, security?), what is our target?

3. Create a concentrated, sustained and targeted marketing campaign to share our message in the most effective manner:

Action:

- Define core principles and values for our NEM movement.
- Spread our brand(key words, logo, smart and attractive campaign) everywhere.
-  Create a "secret" feature launch calendar and strategically coordinate launch dates and announcements of important features.
- Create the investors handout and update it along the way with our history, most important benefits we bring  and long term plan(all covered in good marketing).
- Create one or more smart and appealing NEM videos. We can definitely start with something like this in mind http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Um63OQz3bjo but why not try to make it more like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5X5cV-4LRo.
- Create a cool weekly blog and newsletter for all NEM stakeholders containing updates, market analysis, pre-announcements of features etc.
- Set a target to strategically market ourselves in the most important newspapers, publications, well known blogs and conferences four our field.
- Coordinate social media accounts strategically and effectively in accordance to our branding.
- Strategically target and offer 5 - 10 free stakes to convert celebrities/entrepreneurs/ influential people to NEM.(Economists, smart technology guys, entrepreneurs, etc)
- Try to create a viral marketing campaign - offering a great incentive to all stakeholders/businesses to bring new people in.
- Create a NEM evangelist manual outlining how businesses should be pitched and have a F.A.Q. added to the manual.
- Contact several payment processors right after the alpha launch and establish a relationship with them. (Bitpay, Coinbase, Coinkite, etc) in order to be able to offer merchants and businesses the ability to accept NEM as soon as possible and even allow them to pay salary in NEM.
- Establish the demographics of our ideal user and try to develop a very appealing marketing strategy for him.
- Create a campaign in which every NEMster is attempting to bring 3(or more) of his smartest friends into NEM.
- Create some NEM games.
- Create a corporate design theme.(I like what NXT is doing)
- Establish what we can and want to do for businesses and try to develop a very appealing marketing strategy to help businesses accept NEM, list on our asset exchange, etc(show them step by step how to do it and how they would benefit from doing that).
- Establish a target of reaching at least 30000 users until the end of 2014 and plan how we can do that.
- Establish a target to get at least 30 companies to list on our asset exchange until the end of 2014 and plan how we can achieve that.
- Establish a target to find at least 10 companies that will pay salaries in NEM until the end of 2014.
- Establish a target to fund at least 20 big NEM project to enrich the NEM ecosystem until the end of 2014.
- I have some more ideas which will be kept secret till the right moment comes.

I also believe it is extremely important try to measure the effect of strategies we undertake in order to know if we want to pivot or persevere.

This plan is meant to be some food for thought and a springboard for the community to start participating. When looking at the suggestions above, do it with this question in mind: how could we improve things even more, how can we make things even more effective?

When you think about the great potential NEM has please understand this, we're only at the very beginning and trust me, you've seen nothing yet.



References:
1 Elon Musk is working on two things at the moment: Making life multiplanetary and accelerating the advent of sustainable and energy efficient means of transportation. He is CEO of two companies at the same time(SPACEX and Tesla Motors), works 80-100 hours weekly and is arguably building the most advanced rockets and cars in the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk
2 Here is a car built from the ground up to take advantage of the technology available in the 21st century. http://www.teslamotors.com/models/features#/environment
3 Tesla Model S was rated 99 out of 100 point on consumer report: http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/09/autos/tesla-model-s-consumer-reports/

Update: I have added a note on the antifragile solution and tipping point.
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May 25, 2014, 09:37:56 PM
 #7976

This is insane. http://willyreport.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/the-willy-report-proof-of-massive-fraudulent-trading-activity-at-mt-gox-and-how-it-has-affected-the-price-of-bitcoin/

It seems a very significant part of bitcoin price increase was mostly due to market manipulation and insider job.
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May 25, 2014, 09:55:58 PM
Last edit: May 25, 2014, 10:06:46 PM by xtester
 #7977

This is insane. http://willyreport.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/the-willy-report-proof-of-massive-fraudulent-trading-activity-at-mt-gox-and-how-it-has-affected-the-price-of-bitcoin/

It seems a very significant part of bitcoin price increase was mostly due to market manipulation and insider job.

i dont believe that atall! even if its true.. the price has sustained itself at these prices and started rising again with out manipulation. so if true.. it may have started it.. but it will continue regardless...

Right, I am not stating that bitcoin has no value or anything like that, on the contrary, the idea is that in addition of everything bitcoin had(first mover advantage, innovation, expanding ecosystem, growing adoption) a great push came from this kind of price manipulation. Indeed, maybe this was the kind of push bitcoin needed to attract everyone's attention(cause a lot of other complex side effects) and really take off.

I have posted this message on the trello board several days ago, so this was the context:

"It really seems people don't generally understand how the market works. There are a lots of painful examples of brilliant people who did really good and innovative work, but who didn't understood that it was not enough. A very well known example is Nikola Tesla. We all heard what a brilliant work he did and although we use his inventions(AC), unfortunately he did not make much from them. It seems in the crypto-world people believe innovation and interesting features are enough to bring a steady price increase. The important thing however, is that if you study the markets long enough, you will understand that beside bitcoin, almost every other coin has risen, contrary to popular opinion, not because of good features but because of big pumps that were closely coordinated to accompany an important feature announcement.
A good example of this would be Dogecoin. Most people think that Doge took off because of the great community and good meme based marketing. The truth is, in addition to those factors, probably one of the most important factors that have contributed to Dogecoin's take off, was Wolong. (If you have not read Wolong's story, please read this PDF: http://cryptofrenzy.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/god.pdf - it is highly instructive and very intriguing"
makoto1337
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May 26, 2014, 12:38:18 AM
 #7978

We will have dev stakes, besides there are other devs who also spend day-by-day on nem, putting a lot of work and effort into it.

 Also long way ahead, before we'll have both claimed and unclaimed stakes. Smiley

Yes I know, I was only joking . It doesn't help you now. Actually I know someone whose work title
is ' senior designer and architect'.I havnt a clue what that means but he told me he has programmed Java
since he was 16. Has done Python and the other languages that you guys do. Trying to convince him to
join up .

Awesome. If I had any talented programmer friends I'd be convincing them to join NEM too. Good job!

Wow nice job! If he joins and is good you should get some form of finders fee lol

We should create a "NEM Jobs" site where different companies and the NEM dev team can offer jobs with salaries paid in NEM.

                
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Thingamajig
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May 26, 2014, 02:19:20 AM
Last edit: May 26, 2014, 02:49:26 AM by Thingamajig
 #7979

This is insane. http://willyreport.wordpress.com/2014/05/25/the-willy-report-proof-of-massive-fraudulent-trading-activity-at-mt-gox-and-how-it-has-affected-the-price-of-bitcoin/

It seems a very significant part of bitcoin price increase was mostly due to market manipulation and insider job.

i dont believe that atall! even if its true.. the price has sustained itself at these prices and started rising again with out manipulation. so if true.. it may have started it.. but it will continue regardless...

Right, I am not stating that bitcoin has no value or anything like that, on the contrary, the idea is that in addition of everything bitcoin had(first mover advantage, innovation, expanding ecosystem, growing adoption) a great push came from this kind of price manipulation. Indeed, maybe this was the kind of push bitcoin needed to attract everyone's attention(cause a lot of other complex side effects) and really take off.

I have posted this message on the trello board several days ago, so this was the context:

"It really seems people don't generally understand how the market works. There are a lots of painful examples of brilliant people who did really good and innovative work, but who didn't understood that it was not enough. A very well known example is Nikola Tesla. We all heard what a brilliant work he did and although we use his inventions(AC), unfortunately he did not make much from them. It seems in the crypto-world people believe innovation and interesting features are enough to bring a steady price increase. The important thing however, is that if you study the markets long enough, you will understand that beside bitcoin, almost every other coin has risen, contrary to popular opinion, not because of good features but because of big pumps that were closely coordinated to accompany an important feature announcement.
A good example of this would be Dogecoin. Most people think that Doge took off because of the great community and good meme based marketing. The truth is, in addition to those factors, probably one of the most important factors that have contributed to Dogecoin's take off, was Wolong. (If you have not read Wolong's story, please read this PDF: http://cryptofrenzy.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/god.pdf - it is highly instructive and very intriguing"

A informative and interesting read. Thank you for this post. Just goes to show that these "decentralized" currencies really arn't much different from the government FIAT's they despise so much.
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May 26, 2014, 02:32:25 AM
Last edit: May 26, 2014, 02:44:07 AM by googlesearch
 #7980

We will have dev stakes, besides there are other devs who also spend day-by-day on nem, putting a lot of work and effort into it.

 Also long way ahead, before we'll have both claimed and unclaimed stakes. Smiley

Yes I know, I was only joking . It doesn't help you now. Actually I know someone whose work title
is ' senior designer and architect'.I havnt a clue what that means but he told me he has programmed Java
since he was 16. Has done Python and the other languages that you guys do. Trying to convince him to
join up .

Awesome. If I had any talented programmer friends I'd be convincing them to join NEM too. Good job!

Wow nice job! If he joins and is good you should get some form of finders fee lol

We should create a "NEM Jobs" site where different companies and the NEM dev team can offer jobs with salaries paid in NEM.
Joke!

If someone can't,  he must get out.

We have waited for so long!

I think the NEM community would want someone with a stronger hand.
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