Eligius: 0% Fee BTC, 105% PPS NMC, No registration, CPPSRB

[fubly]

Last Block: Shares rewarded: 4,419,377,280  Duration: 45:10 Minutes with 7,004,090 Gh/s

My:
12 hour avg.   = 4,700.95  Shares: 47283456
 3 hour avg.    = 4,828.74  Shares: 12142208
22,5 min.avg  = 4,943.73   Shares:   1553920

Block = 100% = 4,419,377,280 Shares /45.166 min. = 97847435.6817075 Shares per min.

my 3h  12,142,208/180  = 67,456 Shares per min.

=45.166 Min * 67,456 Shares per min.  = My Shares for this Block = 3046749 = X%

100 % = 4,419,377,280 Shares for this Block from Pool

x% = 3,046,749   = My % Shares for this Block = 0.0689406857 %

25 BTC = 100 %

0.0689406857 % of 25 BTC = 0.0172351714

My reward must be 0.0172351714 btc  and not 0.0084507

What is wrong?


 

[baddw]

Last Block: Shares rewarded: 4,419,377,280  Duration: 45:10 Minutes with 7,004,090 Gh/s

My:
12 hour avg.   = 4,700.95  Shares: 47283456
 3 hour avg.    = 4,828.74  Shares: 12142208
22,5 min.avg  = 4,943.73   Shares:   1553920

Block = 100% = 4,419,377,280 Shares /45.166 min. = 97847435.6817075 Shares per min.

my 3h  12,142,208/180  = 67,456 Shares per min.

=45.166 Min * 67,456 Shares per min.  = My Shares for this Block = 3046749 = X%

100 % = 4,419,377,280 Shares for this Block from Pool

x% = 3,046,749   = My % Shares for this Block = 0.0689406857 %

25 BTC = 100 %

0.0689406857 % of 25 BTC = 0.0172351714

My reward must be 0.0172351714 btc  and not 0.0084507

What is wrong?

The shares accepted during this round = 4,419,377,280.  

Payments are based on expected shares per block of 13,462,580,114 = Bitcoin difficulty.  

(Thus the luck was 304.6% for this round.)

Since only 4,419,377,280 shares were accepted during this round, the excess of 9,043,202,834 shares paid in this round went to older shelved shares from previous rounds (probably from the previous day since luck had been >100% for all rounds within the last 12 hours).

Your shares for this block = 3,046,749 / 13,462,580,114 = .02263124%

.03369104% * 25BTC = .0056578 BTC (your actual payout was higher because you must have been paid for some shelved shares)

Every share* you submit = 25/13,462,580,114 BTC.  It can never be more than that, although it can be less than that.  This is what PPS means.

*Shares counted as raw (difficulty 1) shares; the actual shares submitted by your miners to the pool are only difficulty 128 or above, but they are weighted proportionately to give the equivalent number of difficulty 1 shares.

EDIT: I originally copied and pasted some of the numbers wrong, which gave a slightly wrong conclusion.  The numbers have been fixed.

[fubly]

thank you very much baddw

Now burns the candle in my brain.

thx for all your text and your time you spend for me an my problem.

 

Does it also mean, as longer I'm on the pool as higher is my starting estimated rewared when we getwork for an new block?

[baddw]

thank you very much baddw

Now burns the candle in my brain.

thx for all your text and your time you spend for me an my problem.

 

Does it also mean, as longer I'm on the pool as higher is my starting estimated rewared when we getwork for an new block?

Yes, generally.  Although this also means that your Shares Rewarded % goes down.

You're welcome.  Please note, I screwed up the previous post (copied and pasted the 9B number instead of 13B).  I have revised the post to reflect the correct numbers.  You must have been paid for some shelved shares in that block.

[jcumins]

I am watching the stats, and something looks strange.  The luck for this round is 42%, with a round time of over 5:26:30.

I looked and the blocks being processed and there is not blocks rounds even close to these stats and not a one of them are in the 40% or even close.

Are the stats having a issue getting caught up or what.

Something seems out of the normal.

[jcumins]

Another thing I am seeing on almost a daily thing is the percent of luck and the processing flat lines about this time of day for a couple of hours. 

It is not exactly every day but i would say 4 out of 5 days at this time of the day that the stats flat line for several hours then takes off later in the evening.

So i am wondering if there is a ddos deal going on on a timer of some kind, just does not make sence at all.

[jcumins]

I truly think there is something going on with Eligius, to many things and people have different issues.

And some don't.  I completely agree that this makes no since but every afternoon starting about 3pm for 3-6 hours stats flat line almost every day.  Very strange.

I am curious what others think about this, and do you see this behavior in your stats.

[taipo]

Whoa 10 hours....

[goldar]

What happens with the pool? After every block my reward drops, but why?

Your actual award is "As of last block:".  It went up from 0.1977789BTC to 0.21367375BTC.  The "Estimated Change:" is based on what would happen if the pool found a block at that very moment.  In the 1st pic, the round has been going for 01:19:26.  You have submitted a lot of shares in that time, so you would get .00884507 BTC if the pool found a block at that very moment.  In the 2nd pic, the round has been going for 00:29:57.  At that point, you have only submitted roughly 3/8 of the shares that you submitted at the time that you took the screenshot of the previous block.  (30 minutes vs. 80 minutes)

The system is based on Proportional Payment System.  Your "Estimated Change" goes down to 0 with each new round, and goes up as you submit shares.  (Except for taking into account unpaid / shelved shares from recent blocks -- then your Estimated Change might be greater than 0 when a new round starts.)  Your overall Shares Rewarded is at 98.75%, which is pretty high, so you don't have very many shelved shares to pay out.

Every round, while the round has >100% luck, for every 10 minutes of hashes your "Estimated Change" should be a little more than +.001 BTC.  Once the round drops below 100% luck, this number will decrease.

1st, I am glad to see, I am not the only one having this issue, I have been monitoring the pool for the past 4-5 days. This is happening to few miners including me. This is absolutory not true explanation.

When a block is found by the pool, then how come majority of the miners "Estimated Change" starts as the same amount before.

I have been mining here for the past 4 months and had never had this issue before.
 
What the problem here is, if a block is found within 5-10 minutes, miner will not receive their full share "Estimated Change" for the “Hashrate Average” they put in. To verify this, you can easily check the contributors “Hashrate Average” to just compare with your "Estimated Change" after a block is found, you clearly see, most every miner "Estimated Change" goes to almost what they used to receive immediately. Only a few miners, I noticed that their "Estimated Change" starts low and then increase. 

[fubly]

My problem is, that like now, when the round takes 11 hours I will get 0.0017

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1B9NwsMwbcNjh5rytgrr33NHrx82qQw7Yn

and for the next short round the pool pays me only 0.0006 or less. This destroys my 24 hour reward, so that I have only

0.10 btc or less with +- 5 Th/s a day.

I was starting on 23. June at 05:00 a.m. My unpaid reward at this time was 0.10. Next payout was 0.264 btc at 14:00 on 24th

Its 0.16 within 33 hours.

Starting from 24th 14:00 p.m., now I have 0.2435 within 40 hours. Is 0.1461 btc for 24 hours. For this the electricity cost is
higher then my reward (ok electricity here is off topic - sorry)

Clear it depends on pool luck, but it is really an bad reward for me. And if the sheme is for every new miner the same, then
they will go after some hours back to an other pool. Ghash.io for example. And then we are wondering why this pool is so big.

[baddw]

What happens with the pool? After every block my reward drops, but why?

Your actual award is "As of last block:".  It went up from 0.1977789BTC to 0.21367375BTC.  The "Estimated Change:" is based on what would happen if the pool found a block at that very moment.  In the 1st pic, the round has been going for 01:19:26.  You have submitted a lot of shares in that time, so you would get .00884507 BTC if the pool found a block at that very moment.  In the 2nd pic, the round has been going for 00:29:57.  At that point, you have only submitted roughly 3/8 of the shares that you submitted at the time that you took the screenshot of the previous block.  (30 minutes vs. 80 minutes)

The system is based on Proportional Payment System.  Your "Estimated Change" goes down to 0 with each new round, and goes up as you submit shares.  (Except for taking into account unpaid / shelved shares from recent blocks -- then your Estimated Change might be greater than 0 when a new round starts.)  Your overall Shares Rewarded is at 98.75%, which is pretty high, so you don't have very many shelved shares to pay out.

Every round, while the round has >100% luck, for every 10 minutes of hashes your "Estimated Change" should be a little more than +.001 BTC.  Once the round drops below 100% luck, this number will decrease.

1st, I am glad to see, I am not the only one having this issue, I have been monitoring the pool for the past 4-5 days. This is happening to few miners including me. This is absolutory not true explanation.

When a block is found by the pool, then how come majority of the miners "Estimated Change" starts as the same amount before.

I have been mining here for the past 4 months and had never had this issue before.
 
What the problem here is, if a block is found within 5-10 minutes, miner will not receive their full share "Estimated Change" for the “Hashrate Average” they put in. To verify this, you can easily check the contributors “Hashrate Average” to just compare with your "Estimated Change" after a block is found, you clearly see, most every miner "Estimated Change" goes to almost what they used to receive immediately. Only a few miners, I noticed that their "Estimated Change" starts low and then increase. 

This depends on the previous luck and how many shelved shares you have in the system, and how evenly distributed they are.  If your hashrate is consistent, and you have been mining for a while, then there would be not ever be too much change to your "Estimated Change".  You will have a lot of shelved shares, and they will be spread consistently through the stack of shelved shares.  Your new shares (i.e., shares contributed in the current round) receive credit, but at the same time the shelved shares stack is getting bigger, so as the round continues, your older shelved shares drop off past the threshold, so they are not going to be paid out.

As an example, let's say the pool expects 1000 shares to mine a block.  Let's say that your hashrate is 1/100 of the pool, so you have mined 10 of the most recent 1000 shares in the shelved share stack.  You have been mining consistently, so let's say that these shares are evenly distributed throughout the most recent 1000 shares: your shares are #1, #101, #201, #301, ..., #901.  

Ok, That's the status of the stack right now when a new block starts.  If a new block were to be found by the pool immediately, before you have submitted any shares, probably all 10 of these shares will be paid out: #1, #101, through #901 will all be paid out.  So you will receive payment for 10 shares in that block, and all of them will be shelved shares.  All of these shares are removed from the stack, and your older shelved shares will be moved higher in the stack.  

But now let's say that the block isn't found immediately.  Let's say that it is still a lucky round, 200% luck: a block is found after 500 shares.  So your shelved shares are now incremented by 500: the share that you had in the stack that was originally #1, is now #501; the share that you had as #101, is now #601; etc.  So what was previously #501 is now #1001 and would NOT get paid out in this block, and neither would the shares that were previously #601, #701, #801, #901.  However, this is counterbalanced by the fact that you have been mining in this round as well, so you have new shares that now occupy positions #401, #301, #201, #101, and #1.  So you are still getting paid for 10 shares in this round!  5 of them are shelved shares, and 5 of them are newer shares from this round.  Now that these are paid out, your 5 new shares are gone from the stack, and 5 shelved shares are also gone from the stack as well.  But this means that the older shelved shares now move up in position: The share that was originally #501 is now #1 in the shelved share stack, #601 is now #101, etc.  (So #501 went from being #501, to #1001, to #1)

So if you are mining consistently with Eligius for a long time, and your hash rate has stayed relatively constant, then your "Estimated Change" will stay relatively constant.  If you switch back and forth, or have mining trouble, or whatever, then your "Estimated Change" can vary greatly depending on pool luck and exactly where your shelved shares are in the stack.

[baddw]

My problem is, that like now, when the round takes 11 hours I will get 0.0017

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1B9NwsMwbcNjh5rytgrr33NHrx82qQw7Yn

and for the next short round the pool pays me only 0.0006 or less. This destroys my 24 hour reward, so that I have only

0.10 btc or less with +- 5 Th/s a day.

I was starting on 23. June at 05:00 a.m. My unpaid reward at this time was 0.10. Next payout was 0.264 btc at 14:00 on 24th

Its 0.16 within 33 hours.

Starting from 24th 14:00 p.m., now I have 0.2435 within 40 hours. Is 0.1461 btc for 24 hours. For this the electricity cost is
higher then my reward (ok electricity here is off topic - sorry)

Clear it depends on pool luck, but it is really an bad reward for me. And if the sheme is for every new miner the same, then
they will go after some hours back to an other pool. Ghash.io for example. And then we are wondering why this pool is so big.

See the "Estimated Earnings" on the right hand side of the page:

Your approximate maximum potential earnings at the current network difficulty of 13,462,580,114.53 and maintaining your 3-hour average hash rate of 4,864.37 Gh/s is 0.18171566 BTC per day.

Your last payout was 0.26401936BTC in Block Height #307594.  This reset your balance to 0.  This payment was roughly 40 hours ago.  Your balance when we find the next block will be 0.2605 BTC.  This is lower than your estimated earnings, which would be 0.30 BTC.  Pool luck has been roughly 100% over the last 40 hours.... there have been 17 blocks found, which is in line with expectation.  I'm not sure what the deal is here.  Perhaps this is the explanation:

Eligius stats are current undergoing routine maintenance. Some data may be unavailable or out of date. The pool is functioning normally and stats will catch up once maintenance is complete. Thank you for your patience.

Perhaps there is some delay to the stats, and you are actually owed more than 0.2605 BTC.

[baddw]

Ok, stats are definitely behind.  Still showing last block as #307795 while the pool mined #307878 not too long ago.  Also fubly your confirmed balance is now showing up as 0.2605BTC, estimated next block balance is 0.2778.

[goldar]

What happens with the pool? After every block my reward drops, but why?

Your actual award is "As of last block:".  It went up from 0.1977789BTC to 0.21367375BTC.  The "Estimated Change:" is based on what would happen if the pool found a block at that very moment.  In the 1st pic, the round has been going for 01:19:26.  You have submitted a lot of shares in that time, so you would get .00884507 BTC if the pool found a block at that very moment.  In the 2nd pic, the round has been going for 00:29:57.  At that point, you have only submitted roughly 3/8 of the shares that you submitted at the time that you took the screenshot of the previous block.  (30 minutes vs. 80 minutes)

The system is based on Proportional Payment System.  Your "Estimated Change" goes down to 0 with each new round, and goes up as you submit shares.  (Except for taking into account unpaid / shelved shares from recent blocks -- then your Estimated Change might be greater than 0 when a new round starts.)  Your overall Shares Rewarded is at 98.75%, which is pretty high, so you don't have very many shelved shares to pay out.

Every round, while the round has >100% luck, for every 10 minutes of hashes your "Estimated Change" should be a little more than +.001 BTC.  Once the round drops below 100% luck, this number will decrease.

1st, I am glad to see, I am not the only one having this issue, I have been monitoring the pool for the past 4-5 days. This is happening to few miners including me. This is absolutory not true explanation.

When a block is found by the pool, then how come majority of the miners "Estimated Change" starts as the same amount before.

I have been mining here for the past 4 months and had never had this issue before.
 
What the problem here is, if a block is found within 5-10 minutes, miner will not receive their full share "Estimated Change" for the “Hashrate Average” they put in. To verify this, you can easily check the contributors “Hashrate Average” to just compare with your "Estimated Change" after a block is found, you clearly see, most every miner "Estimated Change" goes to almost what they used to receive immediately. Only a few miners, I noticed that their "Estimated Change" starts low and then increase. 

This depends on the previous luck and how many shelved shares you have in the system, and how evenly distributed they are.  If your hashrate is consistent, and you have been mining for a while, then there would be not ever be too much change to your "Estimated Change".  You will have a lot of shelved shares, and they will be spread consistently through the stack of shelved shares.  Your new shares (i.e., shares contributed in the current round) receive credit, but at the same time the shelved shares stack is getting bigger, so as the round continues, your older shelved shares drop off past the threshold, so they are not going to be paid out.

As an example, let's say the pool expects 1000 shares to mine a block.  Let's say that your hashrate is 1/100 of the pool, so you have mined 10 of the most recent 1000 shares in the shelved share stack.  You have been mining consistently, so let's say that these shares are evenly distributed throughout the most recent 1000 shares: your shares are #1, #101, #201, #301, ..., #901.  

Ok, That's the status of the stack right now when a new block starts.  If a new block were to be found by the pool immediately, before you have submitted any shares, probably all 10 of these shares will be paid out: #1, #101, through #901 will all be paid out.  So you will receive payment for 10 shares in that block, and all of them will be shelved shares.  All of these shares are removed from the stack, and your older shelved shares will be moved higher in the stack.  

But now let's say that the block isn't found immediately.  Let's say that it is still a lucky round, 200% luck: a block is found after 500 shares.  So your shelved shares are now incremented by 500: the share that you had in the stack that was originally #1, is now #501; the share that you had as #101, is now #601; etc.  So what was previously #501 is now #1001 and would NOT get paid out in this block, and neither would the shares that were previously #601, #701, #801, #901.  However, this is counterbalanced by the fact that you have been mining in this round as well, so you have new shares that now occupy positions #401, #301, #201, #101, and #1.  So you are still getting paid for 10 shares in this round!  5 of them are shelved shares, and 5 of them are newer shares from this round.  Now that these are paid out, your 5 new shares are gone from the stack, and 5 shelved shares are also gone from the stack as well.  But this means that the older shelved shares now move up in position: The share that was originally #501 is now #1 in the shelved share stack, #601 is now #101, etc.  (So #501 went from being #501, to #1001, to #1)

So if you are mining consistently with Eligius for a long time, and your hash rate has stayed relatively constant, then your "Estimated Change" will stay relatively constant.  If you switch back and forth, or have mining trouble, or whatever, then your "Estimated Change" can vary greatly depending on pool luck and exactly where your shelved shares are in the stack.

I must say, I have to agree with your last paragraph 100%. As you said, if a miner stays with the pool constantly and maintain their “Hashrate Average”, their "Estimated Change" should not change like this. But this is not the instance.

I do not know about other miner’s case, but ever since I started mining with Eligius 4 months ago, maybe 2-3 times, I have changed the pool.  99.8% of my mining is done here. I love this place, people are great,  and returns are great as well.

However, I seriously think there is an issue here with the pool in the last few days. I also posted this issue few days ago but no one responded. Now, all of sudden few people notice the problem. I hope this can be resolved.

[Bitskint]

Hmmm

For the first time since I joined Elegius to mine,

My stats yesterday show that I have

100% Last block

0% estimated change

100%  ( the third one - cant see atm as site is down )

Am I really lucky compaired to the other members, or is it a glitch ?

 

[georgem]

can't seem to reach the website anymore.... down?

[jcumins]

I sure wish i could figure out why over the past 20 hours my total reward .06 and should be loser to .20  My average luck was 40% and less, according to the block chart all the blocks processed in the last 24 hours had way over 100% luck rate.

I am running average 5.8 - 6.0th and to say I only mined .06 is way off.  And according to the stats on the block chard page shoes the luck rates way over 100 Plus %.

Can some one please explain this to me.

I suspect that Luke and WK are still chasing ghost.

Please everyone give me your thoughts.

[merv77]

everything seems to running smoothly last few days. Thanks WK

[jcumins]

I went and reviewed numerous contributors stats and they all match how mine looks.

So i Suspect that it was a block that just did not want to me processed and the luck rates went to very low.  causing all miners to not mine to well.  6-10 hours of basically no blocks being processed with much luck is all it was.  Not just me that's for sure.

I really do like this pool.  And everyone here is very patient and assisting.

Thanks to every one.

[wizkid057]

The complaints and people yelling that the pool is broken always seem to happen every time the pool has a run of bad luck, which does happen occasionally on every pool.

Rest assured that if your shares are being accepted, then nothing is broken on the pool side.

(As I was typing this we just found two blocks in a row... woot)