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Author Topic: [ANN] [MINT] Mintcoin (POS / 5%) [NO ICO] [Fair distro, community maintained]  (Read 1337866 times)
acceptance2
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July 30, 2014, 12:40:54 PM
 #16061

Good morning!

Android Wallet News:
Paspi has locked up some time for the finalization of the android wallet, testing and a soft launch of August 15th. He has spent several months building this app from scratch and is very excited to share with the team.

We are currently seeking a private pool of testers for the code. Please pm me if you would like to be on this list. Private testing should take place towards the end of the next two weeks.

The initial launch will not be PoS - however we have an alternative which another wallet developer is already in the progress of working on.

Investor Relations:
I have been speaking with several investors since the start of Mintcoin discussing the investment opportunity and there have always been 2 major concerns with the coin.

1. Pre-mine - GONE
2. PoS Rate. - Let's Talk About it.

I saw a post awhile back (reddit I believe) that supported the 20% PoS rate. It noted that currently we are actually only at 12.5%? (will find article later - numbers may be off)

I would like to propose that the 20% be discussed within the community and a decision is made by everyone whether or not we decrease that number. Personally I would like to see it at a range between 6%-12%

Here is a link one of the investors shared with me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inflation_rate

A final note:

Mintpal Manipulation:
edit: shakes head. Lets get to work guys and put this person to shame...






Excellent news on the Android Wallet. Happy to volunteer for testing on this.

As to the POS rate, my personal preference would be to eliminate it all together and cap the coin at its current distribution. In my mind, this would immediately bring value (scarcity creates demand) and give the coin a fighting chance to come back from the dead.

What it would mean of course, is real adoption and development would carry the coin forward, not hypothetical riches from speculation (that hasn't really worked out so well has it?).

Given that I'll probably be the only one in favor of capping the coin at it's current distribution, my next choice would be on your low end of the scale at 6%. But I would strongly suggest to holders to eliminate it completely if they really want to see their investment rebound.

And capping the coin at its current distribution, would I believe solve the coin manipulation problem almost immediately.

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July 30, 2014, 12:52:17 PM
 #16062

The PoS is something I want to market heavily (interest rate) as it secures the network and if promoted correctly can be compared to a traditional savings account (eventually).

Decreasing it should bring in new investors almost immediately though which we can support our growth with.
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July 30, 2014, 01:01:36 PM
 #16063

Excellent news on the Android Wallet. Happy to volunteer for testing on this.

As to the POS rate, my personal preference would be to eliminate it all together and cap the coin at its current distribution. In my mind, this would immediately bring value (scarcity creates demand) and give the coin a fighting chance to come back from the dead.

What it would mean of course, is real adoption and development would carry the coin forward, not hypothetical riches from speculation (that hasn't really worked out so well has it?).

Given that I'll probably be the only one in favor of capping the coin at it's current distribution, my next choice would be on your low end of the scale at 6%. But I would strongly suggest to holders to eliminate it completely if they really want to see their investment rebound.

And capping the coin at its current distribution, would I believe solve the coin manipulation problem almost immediately.

I am open to ideas, I read you post with great joy.
However I have a few questions:

How would you secure the network if not using PoS?
Are you suggesting to switch to PoW and set the blockreward to zero, and only maintaining the network with transaction fee's?

Cryptography is one of the few things you can truly trust.
acceptance2
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July 30, 2014, 01:26:11 PM
 #16064

The PoS is something I want to market heavily (interest rate) as it secures the network and if promoted correctly can be compared to a traditional savings account (eventually).

Decreasing it should bring in new investors almost immediately though which we can support our growth with.

So I guess the question is, where's the balance that will both bring in new investors and secure the network?

Any real investor wants as small a float as possible. So 6%, 5%, 4%, 3% ?

I'm curious, probably a stupid question but if POS is needed to secure the network, what secures the network when the Minting is finished years later?

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July 30, 2014, 01:29:45 PM
 #16065

The PoS is something I want to market heavily (interest rate) as it secures the network and if promoted correctly can be compared to a traditional savings account (eventually).

Decreasing it should bring in new investors almost immediately though which we can support our growth with.

So I guess the question is, where's the balance that will both bring in new investors and secure the network?

Any real investor wants as small a float as possible. So 6%, 5%, 4%, 3% ?

I'm curious, probably a stupid question but if POS is needed to secure the network, what secures the network when the Minting is finished years later?



From what I understand, instead of minting new coins, you will be rewarded by the transaction fees.

Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though.
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July 30, 2014, 01:38:19 PM
 #16066

So I guess the question is, where's the balance that will both bring in new investors and secure the network?

Any real investor wants as small a float as possible. So 6%, 5%, 4%, 3% ?

I'm curious, probably a stupid question but if POS is needed to secure the network, what secures the network when the Minting is finished years later?

That is a good question.
The answer is in the OP, the reward continue for infinite with 5% after 3rd year.

Bitcoin for example has a fixed number of coins (~21mil), the block reward will eventually go to zero, at that time is it believed that the network is so widely used that miners is motivated to mine strictly to claim the tx fees.

Specifications

-Pure PoS

Other Specifications:
...
    - PoS variable interests:
        - 1st year: 20%
        - 2nd year: 15%
        - 3rd year: 10%
        - 4th and subsequent years: 5%
...


Cryptography is one of the few things you can truly trust.
acceptance2
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July 30, 2014, 01:55:50 PM
 #16067

So I guess the question is, where's the balance that will both bring in new investors and secure the network?

Any real investor wants as small a float as possible. So 6%, 5%, 4%, 3% ?

I'm curious, probably a stupid question but if POS is needed to secure the network, what secures the network when the Minting is finished years later?

That is a good question.
The answer is in the OP, the reward continue for infinite with 5% after 3rd year.

Bitcoin for example has a fixed number of coins (~21mil), the block reward will eventually go to zero, at that time is it believed that the network is so widely used that miners is motivated to mine strictly to claim the tx fees.

Specifications

-Pure PoS

Other Specifications:
...
    - PoS variable interests:
        - 1st year: 20%
        - 2nd year: 15%
        - 3rd year: 10%
        - 4th and subsequent years: 5%
...

But what about when the 70,000,000,000 are fully distributed? How is the network secured then?

How would it be any different than if the distribution was capped now at say 20,000,000,000?

What am I missing here?
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July 30, 2014, 01:56:38 PM
 #16068

I saw a post awhile back (reddit I believe) that supported the 20% PoS rate. It noted that currently we are actually only at 12.5%? (will find article later - numbers may be off)

I would like to propose that the 20% be discussed within the community and a decision is made by everyone whether or not we decrease that number. Personally I would like to see it at a range between 6%-12%

Using your range, we could drop it to ~12% first year, ~10% second year, ~8% third year, and ~6% all subsequent years? Or are we only discussing a first year percentage adjustment here?
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July 30, 2014, 02:20:11 PM
 #16069

I saw a post awhile back (reddit I believe) that supported the 20% PoS rate. It noted that currently we are actually only at 12.5%? (will find article later - numbers may be off)

I would like to propose that the 20% be discussed within the community and a decision is made by everyone whether or not we decrease that number. Personally I would like to see it at a range between 6%-12%

Using your range, we could drop it to ~12% first year, ~10% second year, ~8% third year, and ~6% all subsequent years? Or are we only discussing a first year percentage adjustment here?

This is what I was thinking as well. This way we are still ahead of competitors but significantly decreasing the production.

Someone else mentioned going dynamic with the PoS using VRC/GUE as a place to get started.

On the transaction fee note: Do we know where that fee is currently going to?

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July 30, 2014, 02:30:57 PM
 #16070

That BIG NUMBER 70,000,000,000 BILLION is what has been scaring real investors away from this coin since the very beginning.

Am I to understand that we're only shuffling interest rates (POS) around but that the eventual total distribution would still be this legitimately scary number?
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July 30, 2014, 02:39:41 PM
 #16071

That BIG NUMBER 70,000,000,000 BILLION is what has been scaring real investors away from this coin since the very beginning.

Am I to understand that we're only shuffling interest rates (POS) around but that the eventual total distribution would still be this legitimately scary number?

I tend to agree that the overall number of coins should be chopped down to 1/2 or 1/3 of this number. 
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July 30, 2014, 03:00:37 PM
 #16072

What do you think about this:

42,000,000,000 targeted coins, new PoS rates go one full year as 12% and then move onward as suggested:

~12% first year, ~10% second year, ~8% third year, and ~6% all subsequent years until we hit the total coin goal at which we trickle down to 1.5% in order to replace lost and destroyed coins?

That BIG NUMBER 70,000,000,000 BILLION is what has been scaring real investors away from this coin since the very beginning.

Am I to understand that we're only shuffling interest rates (POS) around but that the eventual total distribution would still be this legitimately scary number?

I tend to agree that the overall number of coins should be chopped down to 1/2 or 1/3 of this number. 
acceptance2
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July 30, 2014, 03:07:46 PM
 #16073

What do you think about this:

42,000,000,000 targeted coins, new PoS rates go one full year as 12% and then move onward as suggested:

~12% first year, ~10% second year, ~8% third year, and ~6% all subsequent years until we hit the total coin goal at which we trickle down to 1.5% in order to replace lost and destroyed coins?

That BIG NUMBER 70,000,000,000 BILLION is what has been scaring real investors away from this coin since the very beginning.

Am I to understand that we're only shuffling interest rates (POS) around but that the eventual total distribution would still be this legitimately scary number?

I tend to agree that the overall number of coins should be chopped down to 1/2 or 1/3 of this number. 

Does "targeted" mean the eventual FINAL number? So 42,000,000,000 not 70,000,000,000?

My preference would be under 10% or maximum 10%. Western banks are giving under 2.5% for 72 month CDs. Paying 4 x that doesn't seem unreasonable at this stage.


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July 30, 2014, 03:13:46 PM
 #16074

When I say "target" I am referencing the number of coins generated before the PoS rate drops down 1.5% indefinitely to replace lost and destroyed coins.
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July 30, 2014, 03:30:30 PM
 #16075

When I say "target" I am referencing the number of coins generated before the PoS rate drops down 1.5% indefinitely to replace lost and destroyed coins.

Okay, I read that as the final number being 42,000,000,000 (approximately) before the 1.5% kicks in.

Sorry to be picky about this.

So when marketing the coin, it would not be unreasonable to say the coin would have an eventual coin market cap of 42,000,000,000 with an additional 1.5% interest carried on in perpetuity to sustain lost and destroyed coins.

Would that be a fair/factual statement?

42,000,000,000 sure looks a lot better than 70,000,000,000
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July 30, 2014, 03:32:19 PM
 #16076

When I say "target" I am referencing the number of coins generated before the PoS rate drops down 1.5% indefinitely to replace lost and destroyed coins.

Okay, I read that as the final number being 42,000,000,000 (approximately) before the 1.5% kicks in.

Sorry to be picky about this.

So when marketing the coin, it would not be unreasonable to say the coin would have an eventual coin market cap of 42,000,000,000 with an additional 1.5% interest carried on in perpetuity to sustain lost and destroyed coins.

Would that be a fair/factual statement?

42,000,000,000 sure looks a lot better than 70,000,000,000

This is exactly what I am suggesting - Don't worry about being "picky" this conversation is exactly what we need Smiley
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July 30, 2014, 03:40:34 PM
 #16077

This would be helpful to bring to the reddit page. That said, two things to discuss: one is about the 70bil coins. I don't think at all that the total number of coins is a big deal. It's not the total but the stability that investors looks for. Stocks of companies trade and sell at all values regardless of price, so I don't see how that would affect anything capping the coins lower, besides maybe an initial shock jump in value.

Second, I see the 6% jump down to 1.5% to be quite large, as well as the 20% to 12%, at least if there is going to be a 4% drop in the sequential years that follow. What about a exponential curve starting from 20%, and maybe decreasing more often? For instance,  just as a mockup, here is 20/exp(0.2*Time):

1    16.37462
2    13.4064
3    10.97623
4    8.986579
5    7.357589
6    6.023884
7    4.931939
8    4.03793
9    3.305978
10    2.706706
11    2.216063
12    1.814359
13    1.485472

As you can see, after 13 time periods, the inflation rate is at the target 1.5%, as previously suggested. Or, another thought is to change the rate when the total coins reaches a certain amount. For instance, at 20bil coins, change to 16.4%, at 27bil change to 13.4%, etc until at 70bil coins change to 1.5%. Just an idea.
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July 30, 2014, 03:44:35 PM
 #16078

This would be helpful to bring to the reddit page. That said, two things to discuss: one is about the 70bil coins. I don't think at all that the total number of coins is a big deal. It's not the total but the stability that investors looks for. Stocks of companies trade and sell at all values regardless of price, so I don't see how that would affect anything capping the coins lower, besides maybe an initial shock jump in value.

Second, I see the 6% jump down to 1.5% to be quite large, as well as the 20% to 12%, at least if there is going to be a 4% drop in the sequential years that follow. What about a exponential curve starting from 20%, and maybe decreasing more often? For instance,  just as a mockup, here is 20/exp(0.2*Time):

1    16.37462
2    13.4064
3    10.97623
4    8.986579
5    7.357589
6    6.023884
7    4.931939
8    4.03793
9    3.305978
10    2.706706
11    2.216063
12    1.814359
13    1.485472

As you can see, after 13 time periods, the inflation rate is at the target 1.5%, as previously suggested. Or, another thought is to change the rate when the total coins reaches a certain amount. For instance, at 20bil coins, change to 16.4%, at 27bil change to 13.4%, etc until at 70bil coins change to 1.5%. Just an idea.

Thanks for bringing this over here - I never know where the conversation is going to get momentum Smiley
Once we have a few more people involved in the conversation I will summarize current status and bring it back into reddit to try to get more people involved.
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July 30, 2014, 03:46:58 PM
 #16079

Can someone tell me why an increasing total number of coins would be not acceptible for an investor whose coins stake new coins at the same rate?
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July 30, 2014, 03:49:17 PM
 #16080

When I say "target" I am referencing the number of coins generated before the PoS rate drops down 1.5% indefinitely to replace lost and destroyed coins.

Okay, I read that as the final number being 42,000,000,000 (approximately) before the 1.5% kicks in.

Sorry to be picky about this.

So when marketing the coin, it would not be unreasonable to say the coin would have an eventual coin market cap of 42,000,000,000 with an additional 1.5% interest carried on in perpetuity to sustain lost and destroyed coins.

Would that be a fair/factual statement?

42,000,000,000 sure looks a lot better than 70,000,000,000

This is exactly what I am suggesting - Don't worry about being "picky" this conversation is exactly what we need Smiley

If we want to be picky, then we need to all understand that the current 70b cap, is not a cap at all, just a poorly coded number that is the maximum transaction size. If you were to adjust the PoS rate approaching a certain money supply, as cryptomommy suggested, then that would be an effective fork to add a maximum coin supply.

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