[ActiveMining] Official Shareholder Discussion Thread [Moderated]

[Ozymandias]

ACTM should pay for it, provide proof of payment after shareholders have picked out the company.

"Well how will shareholders pick it out." - Instead of having people vote, I say we get someone who has proven themselves not to be a troll and not to be a cheerleader to pick the company to do the audit. I don't want to sit around and wait till the end of March for some financial report.

• Ken could have disappeared by then.
• Ken could just ignore any questions about it then.
• The report cold be the insubstantial/a lie

Could you offer a shortlist of those you would consider eligible?

[sparky999]

What about contacting the Bitcoin foundation and ask them to recommend someone?

[JoTheKhan]

ACTM should pay for it, provide proof of payment after shareholders have picked out the company.

"Well how will shareholders pick it out." - Instead of having people vote, I say we get someone who has proven themselves not to be a troll and not to be a cheerleader to pick the company to do the audit. I don't want to sit around and wait till the end of March for some financial report.

• Ken could have disappeared by then.
• Ken could just ignore any questions about it then.
• The report cold be the insubstantial/a lie

Could you offer a shortlist of those you would consider eligible?

True this would definitely the hardest part of the endeavor. We could go by outsider sources and find the highest rated auditing company in Ken's area. Do auditing companies even get rated?

[sparky999]

We need 3 options and a simple vote - if you want to vote then you pay your % of the cost of the audit. I think that is the fairest way to do it.

[interJ]

I'm sorry, but everyone pause for a second and explain to me why we are ponying up for an audit when we can't even verify the shares we hold in the company? This is really a case of misplaced priorities here. No one should even think about putting a DIME into validating this company until Ken puts in the two cents of effort required to validate US.



Edit: Also a question for Ken (or whoever is preparing question): Are said financials which are forthcoming going to be prepared to GAAP or IFRS levels? Last time financials were forthcoming they were two lines of text in a monthly update. And you wonder why people are clamoring for an audit...

[tempestb]

Producing a financial at the end of the month does nothing for anyone since no-one has any shares in this "company" that they can do anything with.

Ken continues to respond with one line responses and ignores the questions being asked even by his own cheerleaders.  

We continue to have zero evidence there is anything going on at all.

I am doubtful a U.S. company is going to be able to perform an audit on a company based in Belize.  Even if it Ken himself is located in the U.S., the audit would not be on him but the company itself.  You might as well find someone here that lives near Ken that isn't considered a fanboy and have them meet him and look at the books and see the evidence and report back.  If that can't be done, there is no point to anything else going on here.  

I think this is all just a waste of time.  If there was evidence to suggest anything was happening, Ken would have posted it.  The financials are just smoke and mirrors.  You wait for nothing because you have nothing to get.

[chsados]

I've been advised that the best first step we as shareholders could make is to have the company audited by an independent third party, if necessary funded by us as a group.

I can see no reason why Ken should not allow this unless he has something to hide - it would cost the company nothing, the information would only be provided to actual shareholders and not released into the public domain. IT would prove once and for all if our situation is a result of a scam or just simple mismanagement and incompetence and would provide us with physical evidence one way or the other.  There are 3-4 members of staff that are just twiddling their thumbs at the moment and have been for the last 6 months at least, I'm sure they can find time to pull up whatever documents the auditor requires.

@Ken - will you allow an independent third party chosen by shareholders to do a full audit of the company? The shareholders will agree to collectively fund the audit and reimburse the company for any staff hours lost due to the audit.


I suggest we all continue to ask this question from Ken until we get a definitive response. If he refuses to allow this I think we have our answer as to whether or not this is an outright scam or not.

I have no problem with that; however, I don't think it is necessary as we will be releasing financials for last year by the end of the month.

NO. Release it NOW Ken.  Enough stalling!

Updated list

1.  What is the status of our shares?
2.  How many bitcoins were on MtGox and why where they there to begin with?
3.  How much did ActM lose on the cancelled 55nm deal?
3.1 Were the 55nm ever even taped out? Do you have any proof of their existence?
3.2 How much money does ACTM have?
3.3 How much money did ACTM lose in the 28nm eAsic failure?
4. Who is on the payroll (What companies are you currently working with and how many people (and who) currently work at VMC/AMC)
5. Proof of a 55nm deal, proof of a tapeout. They were offered as preorders: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297503.msg5129392#msg5129392 and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=464145.msg5129458#msg5129458
6. Intellihash?? Can you please explain what this is/was and how this factors into everything?
7. Are said financials which are forthcoming going to be prepared to GAAP or IFRS levels? Last time financials were forthcoming they were two lines of text in a monthly update.

[sparky999]

Producing a financial at the end of the month does nothing for anyone since no-one has any shares in this "company" that they can do anything with.

Ken continues to respond with one line responses and ignores the questions being asked even by his own cheerleaders.  

We continue to have zero evidence there is anything going on at all.

I am doubtful a U.S. company is going to be able to perform an audit on a company based in Belize.  Even if it Ken himself is located in the U.S., the audit would not be on him but the company itself.  You might as well find someone here that lives near Ken that isn't considered a fanboy and have them meet him and look at the books and see the evidence and report back.  If that can't be done, there is no point to anything else going on here.  

I think this is all just a waste of time.  If there was evidence to suggest anything was happening, Ken would have posted it.  The financials are just smoke and mirrors.  You wait for nothing because you have nothing to get.

I am not talking about just a financial audit it would include looking through all the details of all the failed chips so far and assesing what went wrong and why and if it will happen again in the future, hence we need someone with expertise in ASIC's. Which is why I suggested contacting the bitcoin foundation to see if they could recommend someone.

[tempestb]

I am not talking about just a financial audit it would include looking through all the details of all the failed chips so far and assesing what went wrong and why and if it will happen again in the future, hence we need someone with expertise in ASIC's. Which is why I suggested contacting the bitcoin foundation to see if they could recommend someone.

With respect to this idea, I think finding out that granular level of details is pointless unless you intend to conduct a lawsuit.  Whether or not Ken is competent or made mistakes isn't going to help anyone recoup their investment.  What we need to find out is if any of this is actually real.  Right now we have no idea.  There is no proof of anything that has been said.  Having someone produce some proof would let us know that our money hasn't vanished into a black hole.  It would also be significantly cheaper than hiring a company to do what you suggest.

If proof can be established, then one can walk through the books to determine how much was spent and how much is left.  I don't think you really need ASIC knowledge.  You just need someone to see where X number of dollars went to.  

Anything beyond that, you might as well sue Ken and find it all in the exploratory phase of the proceedings.  You'd be further down the trail legally and would have the power of the court behind you to demand access to what is being questioned.

I think what we need is evidence.  Someone drive over to Ken's place and have a look at what is going on.  Or maybe Ken could produce something like we've been asking him to.  

My guess is nothing will happen and we'll be scratching our asses doing the same thing six months from now.

[RoadStress]

No weekly update?

[Ozymandias]

No weekly update?

Usually happens at around 5pm-6pm Ken's time (CST?)

[kleeck]

No weekly update?

Usually happens at around 5pm-6pm Ken's time (CST?)

Also this question is brought up just about every week, with this answer.

 Pretty, pretty, pretty good.

[Duffer1]

If Ken didn't have a problem with an audit he would have provided the IPO address for inspection last year. 

[kleeck]

If Ken didn't have a problem with an audit he would have provided the IPO address for inspection last year. 

He literally just confirmed that he doesn't have a problem with an independent audit.

[chsados]

If Ken didn't have a problem with an audit he would have provided the IPO address for inspection last year. 

He literally just confirmed that he doesn't have a problem with an independent audit.

Yea in ~3 weeks (ie the new 2 weeks TM)

[kleeck]

If Ken didn't have a problem with an audit he would have provided the IPO address for inspection last year. 

He literally just confirmed that he doesn't have a problem with an independent audit.

Yea in ~3 weeks (ie the new 2 weeks TM)

Good point! If we don't audit Ken soon who knows what might happen!?!

You guys get so extremely sidetracked so easily.

[damiano]

I'm sorry, but everyone pause for a second and explain to me why we are ponying up for an audit when we can't even verify the shares we hold in the company? This is really a case of misplaced priorities here. No one should even think about putting a DIME into validating this company until Ken puts in the two cents of effort required to validate US.



Edit: Also a question for Ken (or whoever is preparing question): Are said financials which are forthcoming going to be prepared to GAAP or IFRS levels? Last time financials were forthcoming they were two lines of text in a monthly update. And you wonder why people are clamoring for an audit...

+1

[chsados]

If Ken didn't have a problem with an audit he would have provided the IPO address for inspection last year. 

He literally just confirmed that he doesn't have a problem with an independent audit.

Yea in ~3 weeks (ie the new 2 weeks TM)

Good point! If we don't audit Ken soon who knows what might happen!?!

You guys get so extremely sidetracked so easily.

Distracted from what?  There has been absolutely NOTHING of substance for nearly a year now....

[chsados]

Quote and add your question if you have a question you would like included

Updated list

1.  What is the status of our shares?
2.  How many bitcoins were on MtGox and why where they there to begin with?
3.  How much did ActM lose on the cancelled 55nm deal?
3.1 Were the 55nm ever even taped out? Do you have any proof of their existence?
3.2 How much money does ACTM have?
3.3 How much money did ACTM lose in the 28nm eAsic failure?
4. Who is on the payroll (What companies are you currently working with and how many people (and who) currently work at VMC/AMC)
5. Proof of a 55nm deal, proof of a tapeout. They were offered as preorders: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=297503.msg5129392#msg5129392 and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=464145.msg5129458#msg5129458
6. Intellihash?? Can you please explain what this is/was and how this factors into everything?
7. Are said financials which are forthcoming going to be prepared to GAAP or IFRS levels? Last time financials were forthcoming they were two lines of text in a monthly update.

[kleeck]

If Ken didn't have a problem with an audit he would have provided the IPO address for inspection last year.  

He literally just confirmed that he doesn't have a problem with an independent audit.

Yea in ~3 weeks (ie the new 2 weeks TM)

Good point! If we don't audit Ken soon who knows what might happen!?!

You guys get so extremely sidetracked so easily.

Distracted from what?  There has been absolutely NOTHING of substance for nearly a year now....

Things of substance that happened in the last year (in no particular order)...

• Listing on Bitfunder
• Listing on BTCT
• eASIC announcement
• Move from BTCT to Bitfunder
• Close of Bitfunder
• VE being an asshole
• Partial financial reports
• Millions of USD being raised via preorders
• Partnering with People's ASIC
• Purchasing PA's 55nm FCIC design
• Taping out PA's 55nm FCIC
• Announcing the 28nm FCIC based on PA's 55nm FCIC design
• Cancelling the 55nm FCIC manufacturing
• Ken saying he was open to a third party audit
• Ken telling us that he would be giving a financial report for 2013
• Investors being really confused about why we won't have Q1 financials instead of 2013 financials

Just off the top of my head, of course. Point being, you're distracted from what actually matters at this point. The hint of the day is: It isn't a third party financial audit.

Tune in next time for, "Kleeck answers a really, really, really stupid question!"

By the way, your list of questions for Ken looks good!![/list]