[ActiveMining] Official Shareholder Discussion Thread [Moderated]

[drawingthesun]

Ken, you need to talk to us about what's going on and also resume dividend repayments asap, nothing is stopping you in regards to paying out a dividend.

[tempestb]

Simon, all the share purchase times and counts are logged on Bitfunder.  Take screenshots, and it's easy to see what was the price of Bitcoin at that time/date when they were purchased.  At those times, the price didn't move much, and it'd be very cheap for Ken to buy people out.

Secondly, have you seen the list of share holders?  It's pretty small.  Of the folks that want out, it's probably smaller because at least half of the people stopped paying attention ages ago, the other half are probably still in like you, and that leaves a handful of share holders who want out. 

Ken could also just setup a flat rate.  Say 850 shares for $100.  Something along those lines.  Take it or leave it.  I'd take it.  Those share holders would be eliminated from further headaches for him.

And this has nothing to do with the MSD.  He'd be refunding our money, which is better than actually still holding it under the guise of an illegal security.  So it's all win for Ken.  Other than having to sit down and do the work for a day or two.  I know with him being so busy with the now frozen installation of new miners because the AC is broken that he must be bored to death.  Give him something to do.

[drawingthesun]

Ken could also just setup a flat rate.  Say 850 shares for $100.  Something along those lines.  Take it or leave it.  I'd take it.  Those share holders would be eliminated from further headaches for him.

I'd be ok for Ken buying us out for much less than I paid.

I would be ok for $0.75 per share.

[Ashitank]

Sole reason to invest in ACTM was for returns in form of dividends & good share price , please start verification process asap & give us our dividends.

[VinceSamios]

About tracking numbers for shipped items.

It seems they have been entered they are just a little difficult to find.

First you have to go to view your order where you will see an option to download your invoice.



Then you find the tracking number right at the bottom.



And a happy surprise, the package is already in the UK



So it's taken VMC 5 working days from receipt of payment to ship the product. For me this is very reasonable and very acceptable.

I wish I didn't have to dig to find the tracking number (I wish it was emailed to me) - but the fact is I can't actually criticise Ken & co for anything todo with this order so far.

What is interesting is the "shipment picked up from" shows Reno NV... is this anywhere near ActM (I hope I'm not starting another controversy here)

[VinceSamios]

What is interesting is the "shipment picked up from" shows Reno NV... is this anywhere near ActM (I hope I'm not starting another controversy here)

Uh Oh - is Hashfast drop-shipping for VMC? Not a problem, but no doubt some folks are going to create a big deal over this.

[capa]

Thanks for the info Vince

[VinceSamios]

What is interesting is the "shipment picked up from" shows Reno NV... is this anywhere near ActM (I hope I'm not starting another controversy here)

Uh Oh - is Hashfast drop-shipping for VMC? Not a problem, but no doubt some folks are going to create a big deal over this.

Ok before I start a ruckus, I think I'm wrong. Reno must just be the international depot....

[Simon Templar]

Simon, all the share purchase times and counts are logged on Bitfunder.  Take screenshots, and it's easy to see what was the price of Bitcoin at that time/date when they were purchased.  At those times, the price didn't move much, and it'd be very cheap for Ken to buy people out.

Secondly, have you seen the list of share holders?  It's pretty small.  Of the folks that want out, it's probably smaller because at least half of the people stopped paying attention ages ago, the other half are probably still in like you, and that leaves a handful of share holders who want out.  

Ken could also just setup a flat rate.  Say 850 shares for $100.  Something along those lines.  Take it or leave it.  I'd take it.  Those share holders would be eliminated from further headaches for him.

And this has nothing to do with the MSD.  He'd be refunding our money, which is better than actually still holding it under the guise of an illegal security.  So it's all win for Ken.  Other than having to sit down and do the work for a day or two.  I know with him being so busy with the now frozen installation of new miners because the AC is broken that he must be bored to death.  Give him something to do.

As I mentioned I think it's a good idea in principle but am yet to be convinced it's achievable.  So let's say that 50% of all shares decide to go for the refund.  What's the deal?  You say $0.11764 per share and yet DTS requires $0.75 per share. At your price Ken would need $588,200 to buy back 50% of all shares and at DTS's price he would need $3,750,000.  So how do we achieve consensus? Given that Ken is running the company from hand to mouth right now and needs every penny from hardware sales to keep afloat, where is this money to come from?  How are we going to convince those that don't sell that it's a good thing for their dividend money to get paid out to everyone who wants to jump ship?  I do think we would need those that decide to stay, to agree with this plan if it's is going to affect them in any way, albeit it potentially good in the long run.

To sell this offer we need to lay it out in detail and we need everyone to agree.  I think that would be quite a challenge, because right now, I don't know if I would or wouldn't accept an offer which I'm sure means that there are another ~10,000,000 who could also swing either way.

I do think this is worth further discussion and I'd like to hear from Ken his thoughts on this.  Another consideration is that the price of bitcoin is ready to explode.  How do we factor this in?  Does Ken refund now or after the event?  Are those preparing for legal action seeing the full $10,000+ bitcoin picture here?

 

[drawingthesun]

Great idea on the surface, but when you dig deeper you find the flaws.  What about people who bought shares at 0.009?  What was the price of bitcoin then?

For the record I would be fine accepting a price many times lower than the price I bought mine at (114,425 * 0.004) When bitcoins were $100 - $120.

[Simon Templar]

The initial IPO (03/26/2013 - when the whales started buying in) was for 0.0005 btc per share.  At that time a bitcoin was valued at ~$100.  So, with 2000 shares per bitcoin, each share had a value of $0.05.

The second IPO (07/08/2013) was for 0.0025 btc per share.  At that time a bitcoin was valued at ~$100.  So, with 400 shares per bitcoin, each share had a value of $0.25.

I would suggest we go with the lowest value per share ($0.05) and that those who would accept this offer understand that their 'refund' would be in fiat money with no consideration given to the historical price fluctuations of bitcoin.

At least this way, no-one would profit from their exit.  I think to appease all parties this is a must.

edit -- Can anyone think of a way to gauge shareholder sentiment which would give Ken an idea about how many shares could be bought back at this price, without hosting a troll tainted poll party on this website?

[st4nl3y]

anyway, would it be possible for ken to buy back our shares in exchange for VMC mining gear ??

[Simon Templar]

This is a fantastic idea!  $1500 gets you 750 GH/s which translates to 30,000 shares @ $0.05 per share.

[st4nl3y]

i was thinking more like 0.25$ per share + accumulated dividends

[Simon Templar]

There would need to be a balance between what is practical and what is fair in order to achieve consensus.  We can't have ActiveMining distributing all their stock to shareholders for obvious reasons and yet we need an offer that is targeted to those shareholders who are prepared to exit at the lowest possible price.  It's not easy.  It could get very messy.  Ken could offer $0.05 per share and perhaps 1,000,000 shares would bite.  But what would be the ramifications if he then offered $0.1 per share and 3,000,000 shares jumped in?

[tempestb]

There will be some people who want to get a "deal" out of selling their shares.  I and some others don't care about that.  We just want to sell off what we have.  If it's five cents a share, or five cents applied towards hardware, whatever.  Let me do that and I'm out of here. Better for you guys, better for Ken/AMC, and better for me.

[Komodorpudel]

Hey Ken,
when will you update the vmc website?
 It still looks ...ahmm...let's say...not good.

[SebastianJu]

That said he has never said that "MSD has told us to not give back shares or pay out dividends." but he has hinted at "To not fuck ourselves over and give MSD more evidence/cause, we will be holding shares and dividends until the situation is over with."

MSD isn't blocking our shares, Ken is picking between a Catch 22 (Give us our shares and pay divs so we stop going after him with Lawyers or Hold our shares and don't pay Divs so MSD has less to go on.) looking for the path of least harm. Does that mean I agree with his decision? No. But I understand why he is doing it, I don't need Ken to explain to me why he is holding our shares and I understand why he won't verify them. The less he talks about shares and address concerns about share holders, the less information the MSD can pull from the horse mouth himself and the more information they have to find for themselves. But again, this does not mean I agree with him. 

On the share front, I don't think Ken has lied about that. He has no reason to lie, he has nothing to gain. He knows and has stated and acknowledges our shares, it won't cost him money to list him and will get a lot of pressure off of his back.

I think ken is not honest. I believe we arent allowed to trade our shares since he would have to pay out divs then. And he cant do this because then ActM would be dead instantly. All the time and coins he spent he now is in a state where he has to try getting any profit out of it. And he cant pay the profit out as divs, he needs it to reinvest it. Thats why we arent allowed to trade.

If the MSD really would be the problem then he would have stopped trading of ActM-Shares on cryptotrade, or was it cryptostocks? Anyway. The MSD easily could find US-Citizens that can buy ActM shares there. So either he fears the MSD or not. The current situation shows me that the MSD cant be the problem that leads to us not being allowed to trade. Because it doesnt matter if many or some shares are traded like it happens now.

So no, i dont buy ken's excuse. Im pretty much convinced he only cant pay out divs because he thinks he needs the profits to make ActM successful. I fear he will gamble everything with that in a dying battle.

[JoTheKhan]

That said he has never said that "MSD has told us to not give back shares or pay out dividends." but he has hinted at "To not fuck ourselves over and give MSD more evidence/cause, we will be holding shares and dividends until the situation is over with."

MSD isn't blocking our shares, Ken is picking between a Catch 22 (Give us our shares and pay divs so we stop going after him with Lawyers or Hold our shares and don't pay Divs so MSD has less to go on.) looking for the path of least harm. Does that mean I agree with his decision? No. But I understand why he is doing it, I don't need Ken to explain to me why he is holding our shares and I understand why he won't verify them. The less he talks about shares and address concerns about share holders, the less information the MSD can pull from the horse mouth himself and the more information they have to find for themselves. But again, this does not mean I agree with him.  

On the share front, I don't think Ken has lied about that. He has no reason to lie, he has nothing to gain. He knows and has stated and acknowledges our shares, it won't cost him money to list him and will get a lot of pressure off of his back.

I think ken is not honest. I believe we arent allowed to trade our shares since he would have to pay out divs then. And he cant do this because then ActM would be dead instantly. All the time and coins he spent he now is in a state where he has to try getting any profit out of it. And he cant pay the profit out as divs, he needs it to reinvest it. Thats why we arent allowed to trade.

If the MSD really would be the problem then he would have stopped trading of ActM-Shares on cryptotrade, or was it cryptostocks? Anyway. The MSD easily could find US-Citizens that can buy ActM shares there. So either he fears the MSD or not. The current situation shows me that the MSD cant be the problem that leads to us not being allowed to trade. Because it doesnt matter if many or some shares are traded like it happens now.

So no, i dont buy ken's excuse. Im pretty much convinced he only cant pay out divs because he thinks he needs the profits to make ActM successful. I fear he will gamble everything with that in a dying battle.

I keep seeing this as one of the points. Obviously Ken could not be honest but to use divs as an excuse doesn't work. Why? Because we can actively see at any time of the day 24/7 for the last 5+ Months that our Divs have not been touched. There is a wallet with 120 139 Coins in it from our mining for the last 5months that Have not been touched Ken has not touched our Divs at all.

I repeat because this "Ken is stealing our divs" appears so much that clearly people come on here, do no research, and then make up bullshit. Ken has no touched our Divs at all for the last 5 + Months. Our Divs are easily Trackable &&&&&&& visible on the blockchain. The next time someone says Ken is stealing our Divs, please show evidence. Because I can easily produce evidence that Ken is not.


Here is our Div Address https://blockchain.info/address/1DJpsvnM7xTnQbWEhLYyCyfxQyxwupEzCa

And here is our mining where you can easily see (Even in the URL) that it is pointing towards our Div Address. http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1DJpsvnM7xTnQbWEhLYyCyfxQyxwupEzCa


****** Also notice Ken has claim to half of these to further to company in buying hardware, upgrading staff, w/e but hasn't touched one BTC, maybe the company is financially afloat for now? ******
 

[SebastianJu]

That said he has never said that "MSD has told us to not give back shares or pay out dividends." but he has hinted at "To not fuck ourselves over and give MSD more evidence/cause, we will be holding shares and dividends until the situation is over with."

MSD isn't blocking our shares, Ken is picking between a Catch 22 (Give us our shares and pay divs so we stop going after him with Lawyers or Hold our shares and don't pay Divs so MSD has less to go on.) looking for the path of least harm. Does that mean I agree with his decision? No. But I understand why he is doing it, I don't need Ken to explain to me why he is holding our shares and I understand why he won't verify them. The less he talks about shares and address concerns about share holders, the less information the MSD can pull from the horse mouth himself and the more information they have to find for themselves. But again, this does not mean I agree with him.  

On the share front, I don't think Ken has lied about that. He has no reason to lie, he has nothing to gain. He knows and has stated and acknowledges our shares, it won't cost him money to list him and will get a lot of pressure off of his back.

I think ken is not honest. I believe we arent allowed to trade our shares since he would have to pay out divs then. And he cant do this because then ActM would be dead instantly. All the time and coins he spent he now is in a state where he has to try getting any profit out of it. And he cant pay the profit out as divs, he needs it to reinvest it. Thats why we arent allowed to trade.

If the MSD really would be the problem then he would have stopped trading of ActM-Shares on cryptotrade, or was it cryptostocks? Anyway. The MSD easily could find US-Citizens that can buy ActM shares there. So either he fears the MSD or not. The current situation shows me that the MSD cant be the problem that leads to us not being allowed to trade. Because it doesnt matter if many or some shares are traded like it happens now.

So no, i dont buy ken's excuse. Im pretty much convinced he only cant pay out divs because he thinks he needs the profits to make ActM successful. I fear he will gamble everything with that in a dying battle.

I keep seeing this as one of the points. Obviously Ken could not be honest but to use divs as an excuse doesn't work. Why? Because we can actively see at any time of the day 24/7 for the last 5+ Months that our Divs have not been touched. There is a wallet with 120 139 Coins in it from our mining for the last 5months that Have not been touched Ken has not touched our Divs at all.

I repeat because this "Ken is stealing our divs" appears so much that clearly people come on here, do no research, and then make up bullshit. Ken has no touched our Divs at all for the last 5 + Months. Our Divs are easily Trackable &&&&&&& visible on the blockchain. The next time someone says Ken is stealing our Divs, please show evidence. Because I can easily produce evidence that Ken is not.


Here is our Div Address https://blockchain.info/address/1DJpsvnM7xTnQbWEhLYyCyfxQyxwupEzCa

And here is our mining where you can easily see (Even in the URL) that it is pointing towards our Div Address. http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1DJpsvnM7xTnQbWEhLYyCyfxQyxwupEzCa


****** Also notice Ken has claim to half of these to further to company in buying hardware, upgrading staff, w/e but hasn't touched one BTC, maybe the company is financially afloat for now? ******
 

Im pretty sure im a way bigger shareholder than you. So dont try to say that i come in and randomly accuse ken. It doesnt matter if the address with the coins is untouched yet. The thing that is important is how much coins ActM still have and what is possible to do with it.

You claim he hasnt used the divs yet. Might be. But he didnt pay them out too. Even when the MSD forbids ken to trade shares, which doesnt make sense when ken at the same time allows trading of shares, he could pay out the divs without having trouble with the MSD.

And why are you seeing the untouched divs as proof when you post the notice that ken will use half of them for investment? I dont think thats stealing. Its reinvesting and necessary normally. But only makes sense if you have an advantage that goes beyond simply buying miners for enduser prices.

And what are 139 BTC for 10,000,000 shares? 0.0000139BTC per shares. Nothing near 0.0025BTC. So whatever. It doesnt care what small amount of divs he already mined. The miner sales are probably more anyway. The important thing is that we cant trade. People that dont believe in Ken anymore could sell and the guys that believe can buy. But we arent allowed to do this because ken claims the MSD prevents this. While in fact he allows trading of the same shares on a smaller base. So anytime a missouri citizen could buy shares. If that would be the big problem like he claims he would have to stop trading. But he didnt. So no, i cant believe his explaination.