[ANN][NOTE]DNotes - Celebrating DNotes 3rd Birthday - Forum Now Open

[RJF]

...Among the bulleted key takeaways that the report contains is the following: “Bitcoin struggled to gain mainstream consumer traction [in the quarter].” That has been the case for the life of bitcoin. That the trend persists isn’t, therefore, too surprising. Still, it isn’t hard to wonder what bitcoin firms that pitched investors over the past 18 months, predicted would happen — did they anticipate that the price of bitcoin be so low? Would investors have invested quite so much over the past year if bitcoin wallet adoption was as slow as it has been?

http://techcrunch.com/2015/04/26/bitcoins-q1-record-vc-investment-falling-prices-and-slow-consumer-adoption/

What continues to bother me is that the price of Bitcoin is NOT low, it is actually amazingly high! Using the late 2013 price of 1200.00 USD +/- is wrong, that price was artificial being caused mostly by Bot trading at Mt Gox. It was artificial and therefore not sustainable. Think about it, a single Bitcoin is worth more than an once of silver, over 200 times more that the US Dollar, Euro and any other currency now being used. Only the top 6 or 7 precious metals are worth more.

We are looking at this in the wrong way. It's actually amazing how MUCH a Bitcoin is worth, not how low the price is! 

[TeeGee]

Forgive me if this is out of place, but this thread seems to have forgotten all about DNotes development and instead is just posting news about crypto in general (and various quasi-delusional libertarian dreams of the future). Could we perhaps.... get back to the point?

TeeGee asked a few pages back:

What do people here think the best way to encourage forum participation is?

The best way to get any participation period is to position the coin as a worthwhile and accessible speculation instrument. Whether you philosophically believe this or not, in crypto it's true. The ability to buy and sell something as a means to make money is the only route to awareness at this time.

So what is the most important short-term goal to achieve? Getting NOTE listed on Cryptsy. Until that happens, very little in the way of adoption or awareness will happen. Sure, you say - we're taking it slow. Well, I guess there's three speeds: slow, dead slow, and stop.

Pushing the listing of the coin on a major exchange will do a thousand times more for usage and interest than any marketing campaign, than any development work, than any linkedin posts..

Cryptsy needs to be our number one target above all else if this innovative coin is going to go anywhere.

Thank you for the comments Mochilles.

I think the links are very educational and relevant to DNotes, they are posted to highlight the development, growth and new ideas in the overall industry. Industry growth is good news for DNotes, since it means a wider 'in-the-know' audience that will readily accept DNotes on it's mission to be the preferred Digital Currency used for global payments, according to it's strategic mission and timeline. The other links that show stories about fund managers being unable to withdraw funds from a negative interest bearing account, the bank and regulatory authorities war on cash et al, are all important reading. These links highlight what I hope you do not consider a 'quasi-delusional libertarian dream' - where decentralized control of money is a foreseeable, and desirable goal for the future.


I don't personally know the ins and outs of DNotes strategic plan, I just retrospectively speculate given what I have seen in the hope others may find the thoughts useful whether they're accepted or not. If DNotes achieves it's stated mission to become the preferred Digital Currency for global payments with everyday consumers, then I would contend that the popular adoption of a currency completely in the control of it's users would be a pre-requisite! This outcome is popular with people from many ideological backgrounds.


I also think that at some stage, getting onto cryptsy will be very important. I don't know if the addition of DNotes to Cryptsy would increase liquidity by itself (and it well may AND bring more forum contributors), but what I do know is that DNotes has not positioned itself to be another 'pump and dump' coin for a quick return in dollars. The way I see it, is no long-term value can be derived from a coin that is purely a speculative tool. Given DNotes goals to be used for payments, stability and underlying infrastructure are paramount. That said, DNotes considers itself a long-term appreciating asset that will continue to rise while competitors fade. The DNotes team has looked at other crypto and seen that their strategies are inadequate - they're good for making a few trades, but none look like becoming a successful global payments medium. Why should DNotes follow?

Cryptsy is going to happen. Relationships with key players via linkedin, development work and the continued track-record as the most reliably appreciating, stable digital currency is the first priority.

The best way to get any participation period is to position the coin as a worthwhile and accessible speculation instrument. Whether you philosophically believe this or not, in crypto it's true. The ability to buy and sell something as a means to make money is the only route to awareness at this time.

A year ago I would have probably agreed, but I think this highlights an interesting difference in view that may come down to our long-term outlook on crypto's success. Price movements bring a lot of attention now, but a stable currency fit for global payments will bring infinitely more attention in the future. The former presumes that crypto is a tool to be later swapped back to dollars for profit, the latter opens the possibility that crypto will one day be accepted everywhere, and you'll mostly no longer need to use dollars again. The latter option, if successful, will mean returns on investment many times what could ever be possible with the short term, speculative position.

These are just my thoughts, feel free to add yours. You can comment and help steer the forum towards discussions about content and ideas useful to you.

[RJF]

Forgive me if this is out of place, but this thread seems to have forgotten all about DNotes development and instead is just posting news about crypto in general (and various quasi-delusional libertarian dreams of the future). Could we perhaps.... get back to the point?

TeeGee asked a few pages back:

What do people here think the best way to encourage forum participation is?

The best way to get any participation period is to position the coin as a worthwhile and accessible speculation instrument. Whether you philosophically believe this or not, in crypto it's true. The ability to buy and sell something as a means to make money is the only route to awareness at this time.

So what is the most important short-term goal to achieve? Getting NOTE listed on Cryptsy. Until that happens, very little in the way of adoption or awareness will happen. Sure, you say - we're taking it slow. Well, I guess there's three speeds: slow, dead slow, and stop.

Pushing the listing of the coin on a major exchange will do a thousand times more for usage and interest than any marketing campaign, than any development work, than any linkedin posts..

Cryptsy needs to be our number one target above all else if this innovative coin is going to go anywhere.

Forgive me but, I have to disagree with you. The state of the industry, in general, is just as important as DNotes development if not more. After all is said and done, DNotes is, and will be for some time, part of the bigger picture that is crypto in general. The health of the industry greatly affects DNotes in this early stage of development. I think you will notice that we are moving towards being able to stand alone but, that is still some time off. Also, we don't want to make the same mistakes others are making. Discussing those mistakes, and triumphs, makes us stronger.

Unlike most other coins, DNotes has a long term plan that is being followed point by point by the developers and founders who are seasoned business men already. As far as Cryptsy is concerned, yes, that would help but, it is not the do all, end all move that will get DNotes in the public eye. We are moving to make that happen with or without Cryptsy. Check out all the dying or worthless coins on Cryptsy. We should already be in their voting list so, if you want Cryptsy, vote, vote, and vote some more. Personally, I don't think it is that important but, I'm sure it would help some.

And the last point, pushing a project too fast will result in it's ultimate failure. I have learned this in business and have seen it happen numerous times.

Just my 2 cents worth...

[Dyna]

Forgive me if this is out of place, but this thread seems to have forgotten all about DNotes development and instead is just posting news about crypto in general (and various quasi-delusional libertarian dreams of the future). Could we perhaps.... get back to the point?

TeeGee asked a few pages back:

What do people here think the best way to encourage forum participation is?

The best way to get any participation period is to position the coin as a worthwhile and accessible speculation instrument. Whether you philosophically believe this or not, in crypto it's true. The ability to buy and sell something as a means to make money is the only route to awareness at this time.

So what is the most important short-term goal to achieve? Getting NOTE listed on Cryptsy. Until that happens, very little in the way of adoption or awareness will happen. Sure, you say - we're taking it slow. Well, I guess there's three speeds: slow, dead slow, and stop.

Pushing the listing of the coin on a major exchange will do a thousand times more for usage and interest than any marketing campaign, than any development work, than any linkedin posts..

Cryptsy needs to be our number one target above all else if this innovative coin is going to go anywhere.

Hi Mochilles, good to see you. We do support getting DNotes listed on Cryptsy. It took them almost a year with many strong appeals before they put us on their voting list; a little odd to me. We have the same issue with Bittrex. I know you have been a very strong supporter of DNotes. We are in a significantly stronger position today than any other days before. It will be a very good thing if you and our community could lead a sustained campaign to get DNotes listed on Cryptsy.  While we are on the subject of being listed on more exchanges, we might as well give Bittrex another shot. You will have my support for that. We may even want approach a couple of exchanges outside of the United States.

We are positioning DNotes for rapid growth starting next year. Behind the scene, a great deal of work is being done but not appropriate to disclose other than some general hints here and there. Personally I have been putting in no less that 14 hour a day, 7 days a week for the entire month of April. We are developing worldwide connections, everyday. Strategic executions are hard to measure when they are still in progress. What I can tell you is that, by January 2016, we will have a lot more stakeholders outside of the United States and a lot closer to CoinMarketCap top 10.

As I mentioned a number of times, I am working on multiple projects, and will not have as much time to post on this forum. However, anytime when I noticed that this forum is dead quiet, I would drop everything else I was working to make a post.

Lastly, I do strongly believe that being well read and deeply informed about what is going on in our industry is essential. I used to leave other issues that were not directly related to DNotes alone. We should be very proud of the fact that more people are taking notice of DNotes with admiration, and the words trust, integrity, and respect are beginning to show up in published articles and blog posts. There are also signs that some are turning our way for leadership. DNotes is not only on track but we have already shifted to a higher gear. Those who are selling DNotes at the current price and hope to buy them back at a lower price may soon end up owning less DNotes than if they had done nothing. But, of course, this is a free market. I am all in, but it does not mean you should. We always suggest that you should not invest any more that 10% of your total portfolio or only money you can afford to loose, in case of a total loss.

[DNotes]

Forgive me if this is out of place, but this thread seems to have forgotten all about DNotes development and instead is just posting news about crypto in general (and various quasi-delusional libertarian dreams of the future). Could we perhaps.... get back to the point?

TeeGee asked a few pages back:

What do people here think the best way to encourage forum participation is?

The best way to get any participation period is to position the coin as a worthwhile and accessible speculation instrument. Whether you philosophically believe this or not, in crypto it's true. The ability to buy and sell something as a means to make money is the only route to awareness at this time.

So what is the most important short-term goal to achieve? Getting NOTE listed on Cryptsy. Until that happens, very little in the way of adoption or awareness will happen. Sure, you say - we're taking it slow. Well, I guess there's three speeds: slow, dead slow, and stop.

Pushing the listing of the coin on a major exchange will do a thousand times more for usage and interest than any marketing campaign, than any development work, than any linkedin posts..

Cryptsy needs to be our number one target above all else if this innovative coin is going to go anywhere.

Hi Mochilles, good to see you again. There have been a lot of great replies already. We are certainly not typical and may not attract the majority in the crypto community, that is ok. We do need to keep reaching out to find community members who are interested in what DNotes has to offer.

[DNotes]

It seems as though the fate of digital currency in the US is in the hands of New York's BitLicense. North Carolina is on the right track though.

What bitcoin businesses most fear right now

There is big pressure on New York because it is the first state to launch its own set of regulations specific to digital currency. The only other states even working on such policy right now, said Jerry Brito of Coin Center, are California, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey. Most other states are expected to simply copy what New York does, and so, if New York comes out the gate with something too strict, it runs the risk of losing innovative bitcoin companies to other states that are less tough. Wilson went so far as to say that New York could lose “the next Wall Street” to Silicon Valley, or Estonia, or North Carolina. (That state introduced last month a new version of its Money Transmitters Act that has looser guidelines and, most notably, does not create a whole second set of rules for digital currency businesses to follow; companies like Coinbase have praised the legislation.)

https://fortune.com/2015/04/28/bitcoin-businesses-fear-regulation-bitlicense/

What Is the BitLicense?
http://nyneedsbitcoin.com/what-is-bitlicense/

[kanus1113]

Going a little further with DNotes evolution. We are building services to help people save and store their DNotes in ways that make sense. We will use and grow those services. Then we know the next step will be a service that allows you to purchase DNotes quickly and easily. That and the DNotesVault will evolve into a full blown exchange. What is the next step in the evolution? Will it evolve into a full blown consumer service? How will that evolve? In the beginning it may be a card service that will convert your DNotes to cash and make purchases anywhere. Then it may evolve into a service that merchants can accept DNotes directly. Then it may evolve into a multicurrency card that can be accepted anywhere in the world utilizing any currency with preset preferences on how to spend your money. Can you envision DNotes on such a card?

Coin Cards Finally Ship | Crunch Report

http://techcrunch.com/video/coin-cards-finally-ship-crunch-report/518774631/

We are always thinking, always evolving, and looking for ways to improve. This is not meant to be gospel, it is just an idea for the general direction of DNotes and how it may evolve.

I encourage everyone to contribute to the vision, add to it, change it and share your thoughts.

The first step in true merchant adoption could be in the form of micro transactions. Tools that make it easy to sell digital products easily and without burdensome fees. We've discussed micro transactions and the impact before, but in regards to DNotes evolution it seems like an important step.

[DNotes]

If anyone has been thinking about setting up a retirement account at the DNotesVault, the next round of interest payments is coming up soon.

There are currently 147 funded retirement accounts at the vault...
https://dnotesvault.com/crisp-for-retirement.php

[DNotes]

Going a little further with DNotes evolution. We are building services to help people save and store their DNotes in ways that make sense. We will use and grow those services. Then we know the next step will be a service that allows you to purchase DNotes quickly and easily. That and the DNotesVault will evolve into a full blown exchange. What is the next step in the evolution? Will it evolve into a full blown consumer service? How will that evolve? In the beginning it may be a card service that will convert your DNotes to cash and make purchases anywhere. Then it may evolve into a service that merchants can accept DNotes directly. Then it may evolve into a multicurrency card that can be accepted anywhere in the world utilizing any currency with preset preferences on how to spend your money. Can you envision DNotes on such a card?

Coin Cards Finally Ship | Crunch Report

http://techcrunch.com/video/coin-cards-finally-ship-crunch-report/518774631/

We are always thinking, always evolving, and looking for ways to improve. This is not meant to be gospel, it is just an idea for the general direction of DNotes and how it may evolve.

I encourage everyone to contribute to the vision, add to it, change it and share your thoughts.

The first step in true merchant adoption could be in the form of micro transactions. Tools that make it easy to sell digital products easily and without burdensome fees. We've discussed micro transactions and the impact before, but in regards to DNotes evolution it seems like an important step.

You are correct kanus1113, micro transactions is an area where digital currency can excel and it will be an important step in DNotes evolution.

[CosmicHQ]

Yeah that is what I am seeing with CRISP and which is actually something I have thought about regarding digital currencies and using it to compound interest. There is a lot to talk about indeed 

Welcome to DNotes!

You have certainly come to the right place to integrate crypto into your mission. I've been on your site a few times and I have to say you are doing important work. We all need to insure the digital revolution doesn't pass over those who can benefit the most like many new technologies have. You will find everyone here ready and willing to assist...

RJF
Director of CRISP for Retirement

Yeah I will keep you updated and refreshed about what is going on with Cosmic HQ because I know what we are doing now and what will be happening in the future will be of interest to you from the point of view that it will be a contact point for you to exert your own goals

[Dyna]

Yeah that is what I am seeing with CRISP and which is actually something I have thought about regarding digital currencies and using it to compound interest. There is a lot to talk about indeed 

Welcome to DNotes!

You have certainly come to the right place to integrate crypto into your mission. I've been on your site a few times and I have to say you are doing important work. We all need to insure the digital revolution doesn't pass over those who can benefit the most like many new technologies have. You will find everyone here ready and willing to assist...

RJF
Director of CRISP for Retirement

Yeah I will keep you updated and refreshed about what is going on with Cosmic HQ because I know what we are doing now and what will be happening in the future will be of interest to you from the point of view that it will be a contact point for you to exert your own goals

Hi Cosmic HQ. Thanks for visiting. I am glad you understand that as much as we help to manage DNotes as a business, no one controls DNotes as a business. I was just reminded by an email someone sent to me from Hong Kong saying that they have been trading DNotes in a Number of Exchanges that I have never heard of. Bitcoin did not build their ecosystem or provide them the funding. When there is money to be made all kinds of people will want to take the chances. Our job is to build the most important part of the infrastructure and others will continue as long as they believe that there is good money to be made.

I have been getting emails all day long from people all over the world taking a very serious look at DNotes. It is not an over statement to say that DNotes is becoming the rising star. Once we are at the next level a lot of things we had wished for will become a reality. The Chicago meeting has been confirmed to be held on Tuesday May 12, 2015. At least from my world, things are moving fast and furious. The last thing I need to worry about is getting listed on Cryptsy, but out community should any efforts to do so.

Oops. 5 more emails just came in during the time it took me to write this post. About 8 minutes. I no longer have tome to even edit.

Take care. Will drop in again when I have a chance.

[IMZ]

“The ability to buy and sell something as a means to make money is the only route to awareness at this time.”

tl;dr:

with respect, I disagree. The failure of crypto communities to shunt their coins from the speculative-currency phase to the ‘transactional-volume’ phase has been a tragedy. There are $4 Billions ‘inside.’ There are $74,000 Billions ‘outside.’

Mark (IndiaMikeZulu), Australia

[Mochilles]

The failure of crypto communities to shunt their coins from the speculative-currency phase to the ‘transactional-volume’ phase has been a tragedy

To be fair, it's because crypto in general is:

1. Almost impossible to understand and use for anyone that isn't a techie;
2. Accepted basically nowhere without cumbersome third party intervention;
3. Too volatile to be used as a store of value;
4. Uninsured against theft or loss;
5. Not sufficiently superior to established systems at anything other than a) instantaneous international transfer (not useful in 99.9% of transactions to everyday folk), b) low-fee transfer of huge volumes of wealth (not useful to 99.9% of everyday folk; also see point 3 above).

Right now crypto is a very poorly implemented solution looking for a problem to solve for everyday people. Until that happens (if ever) it will remain a niche speculative interest.

[Dyna]

The failure of crypto communities to shunt their coins from the speculative-currency phase to the ‘transactional-volume’ phase has been a tragedy

To be fair, it's because crypto in general is:

1. Almost impossible to understand and use for anyone that isn't a techie;
2. Accepted basically nowhere without cumbersome third party intervention;
3. Too volatile to be used as a store of value;
4. Uninsured against theft or loss;
5. Not sufficiently superior to established systems at anything other than a) instantaneous international transfer (not useful in 99.9% of transactions to everyday folk), b) low-fee transfer of huge volumes of wealth (not useful to 99.9% of everyday folk; also see point 3 above).

Right now crypto is a very poorly implemented solution looking for a problem to solve for everyday people. Until that happens (if ever) it will remain a niche speculative interest.

Hi Mochillies. Thank you for listing some very important points. It is quite apparent that our industry has been struggling to gain traction. There are many reasons that have caused such setback. Due to my time constraints, I will generalize my comments rather than trying to be specific. I will be happy to answer any questions, one at a time if asked.

Success in business is often about one’s ability to objectively identify problems with the skill-sets to solve those problems. If done correctly, the larger and more complex the problem, the larger the payoff to the party capable of solving those problems. Being complex typically means that many people may attempt to give it a shot but failed due to poor execution of their plans or because they  have grossly underestimated the complexities and unforeseeable challenges. Essentially these explain a lot about the current state of affairs of our industry. The number of failed, or failing ventures, are significantly higher than any I have witnessed in my 40+ years as an entrepreneur. Typically, business failure rate is about 30% by the end of the second year. We may be seeing 80% or higher failure in our industry.

However, as I mentioned in my blog post yesterday, “it is very important to clearly understand that there are two segments to this technology revolution. On one side, is Bitcoin - the digital currency where it is struggling. On the other side is the Blockchain Technology - that is thriving and will continue to see explosive growth.

Having said that let me briefly response to one of the issues on your list and let others address the rest of them:

1.   Almost impossible to understand and use for anyone that isn't a techie;

That is absolutely correct. I have even come across highly educated techie who still has the same problem. We are making every attempt to make things as easy and comfortable as possible as reflected in the launching of DNotesVault. The total solution will take years to fully implement. For example, it is very complicated for someone new to purchase their initial first batch of DNotes. In due time, we will have our own registered and licensed DNotes dedicated exchange wholly owned by us or in partnership with others. Even with that one still needs to make the decision of saving on a regular basis and physically do a few things to make that happened. The long term solution is to get the regulatory blessings where the targeted amount is deduct from payroll and deposited in the DNotesVault account of the saver and the amount is tax deferred, just like any 401K or IRA.

Someone else can continue from here, even if you want to comment on just one or more of the issues listed.

[TeeGee]

The failure of crypto communities to shunt their coins from the speculative-currency phase to the ‘transactional-volume’ phase has been a tragedy

To be fair, it's because crypto in general is:

1. Almost impossible to understand and use for anyone that isn't a techie;
2. Accepted basically nowhere without cumbersome third party intervention;
3. Too volatile to be used as a store of value;
4. Uninsured against theft or loss;
5. Not sufficiently superior to established systems at anything other than a) instantaneous international transfer (not useful in 99.9% of transactions to everyday folk), b) low-fee transfer of huge volumes of wealth (not useful to 99.9% of everyday folk; also see point 3 above).

Right now crypto is a very poorly implemented solution looking for a problem to solve for everyday people. Until that happens (if ever) it will remain a niche speculative interest.

Very well put together list, in general, the crypto community is well represented by the factors you described. I believe your awareness of the challenges you listed is also the reason why you chose to invest in DNotes. The team has worked on, and continues to work on projects that improve (this) crypto's reputation in breaking through all the limitations and current industry inadequacies you have mentioned.

I do agree that right now the easiest way to drum up (short-term) interest would be to encourage wide trading ranges and lots of extra liquidity, but I think that would be counter-productive to DNotes longer-term mission to be an acceptable stable store of wealth, and transfer of value. It is going to take a few years. DNotes will outgrow the competition, and the industry as a whole will also continue to grow. Until that time, crypto will be mostly a niche speculative tool. It's my thinking that the team released the currency a year ago to get the track record of stability in place before big infrastructural components for transactional services were developed - their goal the entire time.

A quick analysis of how this industry has worked so far with innovative, excessively promoted coins would yield that it made no sense to release the currency with fully developed applications at once while claiming that you were the most stable crypto in the industry - nobody would believe you without a reference chart to point at. Whales at the exchanges might have had their way, drawing speculative value from the flash websites, completed applications combined with the teams claims. Traders trick buyers into thinking that price rises are in accordance with the currency's true value, before selling up and crashing the currency like clockwork.

This way, with a slow but agile development process, DNotes has been able to 'fly under the radar' without drumming up unwanted pre-mature excitement. This protected it's value in the nascent stages, ensuring price stability. That execution meant that DNotes now has a very stable one year chart to show potential partners who may invest in, develop for, or provide services to DNotes' future requirements. That said, it's a free-market, and sooner or later that liquidity is going to be tested in line with the development teams achievements and formed relationships.

The next couple years will be very exciting for the industry. When the buzzword is "trust", it pays to take your time and get it right, lest you lose it.

[Chase]

The failure of crypto communities to shunt their coins from the speculative-currency phase to the ‘transactional-volume’ phase has been a tragedy

To be fair, it's because crypto in general is:

1. Almost impossible to understand and use for anyone that isn't a techie;
2. Accepted basically nowhere without cumbersome third party intervention;
3. Too volatile to be used as a store of value;
4. Uninsured against theft or loss;
5. Not sufficiently superior to established systems at anything other than a) instantaneous international transfer (not useful in 99.9% of transactions to everyday folk), b) low-fee transfer of huge volumes of wealth (not useful to 99.9% of everyday folk; also see point 3 above).

Right now crypto is a very poorly implemented solution looking for a problem to solve for everyday people. Until that happens (if ever) it will remain a niche speculative interest.

"Too volatile to be used as a store of value" - In an eight month period in the past year, the Canadian dollar fell 16% against the US dollar.  The US is Canada's biggest trading partner and while the drop may benefit some, it will hurt anyone who's investments were tied to the Canadian dollar.  So called safe investments such as bonds, term deposits, and cash, just saw their purchasing power diminish substantially.  DNotes has had some ups and downs, like any new investment starting out, but as a long term store of value, to date it has been the best I have ever seen.  I stand by my previous prediction that DNotes will be the best performing investment of the decade!

"Uninsured against theft or loss"  -  DNotes has done what no other currency has by offering a guarantee fund for all deposits at DNotes Vault.  Their policy "do what others can't or won't" will be key to DNotes success.

Pushing the listing of the coin on a major exchange will do a thousand times more for usage and interest than any marketing campaign, than any development work, than any linkedin posts..

The push for the exchanges is what every other coin has done, but none of them have made the effort to reach outside of the current crypto community where true success lies.  

[Dyna]

This is a quick post to give you an idea how the future of Wall Street finance may look like. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that a few of you in the future could pool a potion of your DNotes to offer such an exchange traded fund. Paying a premium of 48% over market ($1, 750,000 for 5,000 Bitcoin at $350 verse $ 1,130,000 for 5000 Bitcoin at $226) may sound insane. But that is how Wall Street works. Very often it is just as speculative as the crypto space. As long as you believe that some one else will buy it from you at a high price than what you paid for, it is a good trade.

BUY ORDERS IN THE MILLIONS FOR BITCOIN INVESTMENT TRUST (GBTC)

Crypto Currency News:
 Joel Dalais
 
 29/04/2015


GBTC is the listed stock for the Bitcoin Investment Trust (BIT) that many people in and outside the bitcoin sector have been eagerly waiting for. The other day it was brought to the attention of r/bitcoin that bids for GBTC shares are starting to get a little bit more serious.

GBTC shares trade at the value of 1 GBTC share equals approximately 0.1 bitcoin, with a minimum bid of 100 shares, making the minimum bid possible ten bitcoins.

Maxim Group LLC (MAXM), an Investment Banking, Securities and Wealth Management business, had put down a bid for 50,000 GBTC shares at the value of $35 per share. This bid equates to a buy order of 5,000 bitcoins at the value of $350, for those who are more familiar with digital currency exchange terminology.

At the time of writing this article, the average bitcoin value is $226. The bid has brought people forward with questions of why such an offer so clearly over the average value would be made.
It could be for a variety of reasons
o   That it is easier for these investment style businesses to move money in the stock markets. The last year and a half might lead some to distrust bitcoin exchanges.
o   The last year and a half might lead some to distrust bitcoin exchanges.
o   They do not need to worry about bitcoin security as they are only holding shares.
o   There is no concern for maintenance of security.
To date there have been no sell bids placed, the speculation is that things are still being processed to allow current holders of GBTC shares to be able to sell their shares. Until then, buy orders might appear and disappear.


The bid has been removed as of today, but this does tell us that there are bids in the millions ready to be placed. And considering the relative size of the liquidity in various exchanges, an initial buy of millions in the first days of GBTC trading could be the proverbial snowball that starts the avalanche.
However, this is assuming that GBTC trading does occur within the near future. Information as to when trading will commence always seems to be “within two weeks”.

CCN
GBTC Bitcoin Investment Trust
Bitcoin Investment Trust is a private, open-ended trust that is invested exclusively in bitcoin and derives its value solely from the price of bitcoin. It enables investors to gain exposure to the price movement of bitcoin without the challenge of buying, storing, and safekeeping bitcoins. The BIT’s sponsor is Grayscale Investments, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Digital Currency Group.

Each BIT share represented ownership of 0.1 bitcoins initially. The trust will not generate any income and regularly sells/distributes bitcoins to pay for its ongoing expenses. Therefore, the amount of bitcoin represented by each share gradually declines over time.
Updated: April 29, 2015 at 3:38 pm CET

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/buy-orders-millions-bitcoin-investment-trust-gbtc/

[DNotes]

The failure of crypto communities to shunt their coins from the speculative-currency phase to the ‘transactional-volume’ phase has been a tragedy

To be fair, it's because crypto in general is:

1. Almost impossible to understand and use for anyone that isn't a techie;
2. Accepted basically nowhere without cumbersome third party intervention;
3. Too volatile to be used as a store of value;
4. Uninsured against theft or loss;
5. Not sufficiently superior to established systems at anything other than a) instantaneous international transfer (not useful in 99.9% of transactions to everyday folk), b) low-fee transfer of huge volumes of wealth (not useful to 99.9% of everyday folk; also see point 3 above).

Right now crypto is a very poorly implemented solution looking for a problem to solve for everyday people. Until that happens (if ever) it will remain a niche speculative interest.

#5 is partially true. It is only a matter of time before using DNotes is sufficiently superior to established systems in many ways. Here is just one example. As we have discussed in the past micro transactions are nearly impossible using fiat. Anything under $1 generally isn't worth selling in fiat. You could however accept DNotes and accept payment for hundreds of transactions and if needed convert all of your DNotes to fiat after you have accumulated a substantial amount and pay one smaller conversion fee. That may not sound like a big deal, but think of how many songs are purchased and downloaded daily, and how many more digital products would be available to purchase if it made sense to sell them for under a dollar. Granted it is not the easiest thing to do right now, but it won't take much to come up with an easy to use system.

[RJF]

The failure of crypto communities to shunt their coins from the speculative-currency phase to the ‘transactional-volume’ phase has been a tragedy

To be fair, it's because crypto in general is:

1. Almost impossible to understand and use for anyone that isn't a techie;
2. Accepted basically nowhere without cumbersome third party intervention;
3. Too volatile to be used as a store of value;
4. Uninsured against theft or loss;
5. Not sufficiently superior to established systems at anything other than a) instantaneous international transfer (not useful in 99.9% of transactions to everyday folk), b) low-fee transfer of huge volumes of wealth (not useful to 99.9% of everyday folk; also see point 3 above).

Right now crypto is a very poorly implemented solution looking for a problem to solve for everyday people. Until that happens (if ever) it will remain a niche speculative interest.

Taking the other side:


1. Not really true, just appears that way. No more complicated than a cell phone, computer or even an ATM machine. Just different.

2. This one is true now but, won't be for long. As the learning curve begins to flatten, the acceptance will rise.

3. Bitcoin has been fairly stable as of late and will continue to settle as the user base grows. DNotes is far more stable than 90% of the coins out there including Bitcoin. Its like a heat sink, the larger the mass, the slower the change.

4. Hummm... Just like cash.

5. I could write a book on this one but let me just say, established systems are 60 years old and struggling to accomplish in a day what crypto can do in a few minutes or seconds in some cases. I would argue it's not the technology of crypro but the cumbersome nature of trying to interface it with those 60 year old systems. There needs to be a "sea change" in the way money is used and transferred. Don't worry, it's coming...

[DNotes]

A long read but interesting story. As you may already know Argentina is using bitcoin extensively and trying to fit it into their everyday lives as the rest of the world watches the experiment unfold.

Can Bitcoin Conquer Argentina?

With its volatile currency and dysfunctional banks, the country is the perfect place to experiment with a new digital currency.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/magazine/how-bitcoin-is-disrupting-argentinas-economy.html?_r=0