[ANN][NYAN] NyanCoin - ★★★V1.2 Released! Now Listed on Cryptsy! ★★★

[Anubite]

What you said is straight up false. DOGE has 4 hour difficulty retarget time. It's block confirmation time is 60 seconds. Difficulty retarget time doesn't do much for us since we have KGW. I don't know what you are talking about, but it certainly is not fact.

Much accusation. You are going off old information, again.

http://blog.dogecoin.com/post/79433719646/mandatory-update-dogecoin-1-6

Blocks retarget actively, at any time. Confirmations are 4 hours.

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[atheistftwins]

What you said is straight up false. DOGE has 4 hour difficulty retarget time. It's block confirmation time is 60 seconds. Difficulty retarget time doesn't do much for us since we have KGW. I don't know what you are talking about, but it certainly is not fact.

Much accusation. You are going off old information, again.

http://blog.dogecoin.com/post/79433719646/mandatory-update-dogecoin-1-6

Blocks retarget actively, at any time. Confirmations are 4 hours.

You are talking about mined block maturity time. That's fine, we can change that to 6 hours or whatever. You said confirmation so I thought you meant block generation time. Miscommunication, sorry.

What about my other points about network hash and POW/POS though?

[Anubite]

You are talking about mined block maturity time. That's fine, we can change that to 6 hours or whatever. You said confirmation so I thought you meant block generation time. Miscommunication, sorry.

What about my other points about network hash and POW/POS though?

Yes, that is what I meant. It spares insta-dumping.   6 would probably be best, too, I agree. Too much more might build up Nyncoin in pools too much for safety.

On hashrate. Nyancoin is low now, and some big steps could easily get that hashrate back to at least triple what it is with relative ease.

I do not wish for a halving with X11 instantly, but some time well before block 337k.

On PoW/PoS, I was pretty certain from peercoin having both prevent one from being attacked without the other also being required to be attacked.

[braxx]

Miscommunication, sorry.

What about my other points about network hash and POW/POS though?

glad you 2 got that figured out...

I must agree with atheist that a block reward of 10% would scare away miners to a measly 10Mh...
at current price nyan is now not profitable, you mine with a loss ...
the reduction of 90% will lead to a 10x more loss to mine nyan (at current exchange rate).
only hope that the price will go up 10x will get the same mining power to the nethashrate. (many many people mine for profit not for fun).

[Anubite]

I must agree with atheist that a block reward of 10% would scare away miners to a measly 10Mh...
at current price nyan is now not profitable, you mine with a loss ...
the reduction of 90% will lead to a 10x more loss to mine nyan (at current exchange rate).
only hope that the price will go up 10x will get the same mining power to the nethashrate. (many many people mine for profit not for fun).

I'm not sure who would consider 90% block reward reduction. 

[braxx]

I

I must agree with atheist that a block reward of 10% would scare away miners to a measly 10Mh...
at current price nyan is now not profitable, you mine with a loss ...
the reduction of 90% will lead to a 10x more loss to mine nyan (at current exchange rate).
only hope that the price will go up 10x will get the same mining power to the nethashrate. (many many people mine for profit not for fun).

I'm not sure who would consider 90% block reward reduction.  

I assumed the 337 to 33.7 reward

That aside, the reason we can't afford to lower block rewards with X11 is because however much we lower it is however much less miners we will have. Lets say block rewards become 10% of what they are now. Then we will have ~10 Mh/s as our network hashrate. Well guess what? I myself have roughly 9 Mh/s under my control. I would then be able to go in and kill the coin with a 51% whenever I wanted to. Is that a vulnerability you want the coin to have?[/qoute]

[atheistftwins]

I assumed the 337 to 33.7 reward

That aside, the reason we can't afford to lower block rewards with X11 is because however much we lower it is however much less miners we will have. Lets say block rewards become 10% of what they are now. Then we will have ~10 Mh/s as our network hashrate. Well guess what? I myself have roughly 9 Mh/s under my control. I would then be able to go in and kill the coin with a 51% whenever I wanted to. Is that a vulnerability you want the coin to have?[/qoute]

That was just a random example I was using to prove a point. We don't have to drop it to that extent. I agree that a merged POW/POS model will defend against the possibility of attack.

My question is: is it worth it? If we drop the supply AND share blocks between the POW and POS systems, then there will only be a few megahashes worth of miners. It's a lot of work to implement such a system and do we really want to spend that much work just so a few miners can still mine?

[atheistftwins]

You are talking about mined block maturity time. That's fine, we can change that to 6 hours or whatever. You said confirmation so I thought you meant block generation time. Miscommunication, sorry.

What about my other points about network hash and POW/POS though?

Yes, that is what I meant. It spares insta-dumping.  6 would probably be best, too, I agree. Too much more might build up Nyncoin in pools too much for safety.

On hashrate. Nyancoin is low now, and some big steps could easily get that hashrate back to at least triple what it is with relative ease.

I do not wish for a halving with X11 instantly, but some time well before block 337k.

On PoW/PoS, I was pretty certain from peercoin having both prevent one from being attacked without the other also being required to be attacked.

One of the things that I have noticed my time with NYAN (which is the entire life of NYAN) is that we relied on the nyancat community to bring a huge boost which never came.

It never came because the nyancat community doesn't know anything about crypto and they don't really care about it much. We kept promoting to them, but they basically didn't come to the coin at all. This is the reason that we lost so much of our value in this time.

The reason why I promote a change in supply and change to POS is because we can shift our attention away from the nyancat followers and try to court crypto investors instead. If we change the specs of the coin to be deflationary by nature and to encourage acquisition by purchase, we increase incentive to buy and speculate in the coin.

I don't think as it currently is, there are many big moves left we can make to increase adoption of the coin. We no longer have the volume for marketplaces to take us as a coin and even though we are high on the votes list, even Cryptsy is ignoring us because of lack of volume. I want to change to POS to encourage buyers, which encourages volume. Only then can we get other places to take up the coin.

[Anubite]

A few things I could like about PoS. The premine wallet/wallets could set up a level of security if always running. It would also generate coins I hope would be used at least 90% for giveaways. I would like legit promises they would be doing so, though.

It would also stop more Nyan from being produced faster than there are buyers. Counter to this, a fiat/Nyan exchange might help PoW accomplish nearly the same goal with a halving before the launch of the exchange. Though that exchange could equally help PoS.

So with PoS, what interest rates are we talking? Over how long? If I remove or add coins from my PoS wallet, will it stop earning coins for a while? I heard some coins require holding wallets. How many coins would it generate versus what is generated curently?

[atheistftwins]

A few things I could like about PoS. The premine wallet/wallets could set up a level of security if always running. It would also generate coins I hope would be used at least 90% for giveaways. I would like legit promises they would be doing so, though.

It would also stop more Nyan from being produced faster than there are buyers. Counter to this, a fiat/Nyan exchange might help PoW accomplish nearly the same goal with a halving before the launch of the exchange. Though that exchange could equally help PoS.

So with PoS, what interest rates are we talking? Over how long? If I remove or add coins from my PoS wallet, will it stop earning coins for a while? I heard some coins require holding wallets. How many coins would it generate versus what is generated curently?

The amount of coin generation and all these things are open questions that should also be discussed as a community. As for the premine coins, I have it from the dev that they no longer hold most of them. A lot were given to Chris and a large amount were given away for promotion and bounties. I don't know how much they still hold exactly but it's definitely less than half of the premine.

[Anubite]

A few things I could like about PoS. The premine wallet/wallets could set up a level of security if always running. It would also generate coins I hope would be used at least 90% for giveaways. I would like legit promises they would be doing so, though.

It would also stop more Nyan from being produced faster than there are buyers. Counter to this, a fiat/Nyan exchange might help PoW accomplish nearly the same goal with a halving before the launch of the exchange. Though that exchange could equally help PoS.

So with PoS, what interest rates are we talking? Over how long? If I remove or add coins from my PoS wallet, will it stop earning coins for a while? I heard some coins require holding wallets. How many coins would it generate versus what is generated curently?

The amount of coin generation and all these things are open questions that should also be discussed as a community. As for the premine coins, I have it from the dev that they no longer hold most of them. A lot were given to Chris and a large amount were given away for promotion and bounties. I don't know how much they still hold exactly but it's definitely less than half of the premine.

Shouldn't we know what we are getting into with PoS before we agree?

Must have been too great of bounties then early on, 1.5 million nyan given away within what, a month? 

[vmv_]

Please make your final votes on the algorithm changes.

The options have been narrowed down based on the previous votes. Because of points brought up by atheistftwins, we feel it is not productive to try to implement a hybrid model. Therefore, the choices will be split between X11 and pure POS. Additionally, the the community should vote on whether to decrease supply of the coin going forward, thus making the current amount of NYAN the bulk of the expected coins. If this is done, then only POS is feasible as POW would not be able to sustain a high enough hash rate.

Poll will close in 48 hours and then implementation will begin.

And how are you going to count the votes?

We can for example create a certain number of payment addresses corresponding to the number of voting options.

And after 48 hours, let implementation will begin, the implementation that will get the largest number of coins.

But after 48 hours, all coins should be returned to the address from which they were transferred.

Of others, but I would such a voting system liked )

And such method of voting imho can be used for voting on any question, perhaps this could be one of the a way of using coins for NYAN lovers

(of course, with some automation and limitations, that we can discuss here, if it would be interesting)

[atheistftwins]

A few things I could like about PoS. The premine wallet/wallets could set up a level of security if always running. It would also generate coins I hope would be used at least 90% for giveaways. I would like legit promises they would be doing so, though.

It would also stop more Nyan from being produced faster than there are buyers. Counter to this, a fiat/Nyan exchange might help PoW accomplish nearly the same goal with a halving before the launch of the exchange. Though that exchange could equally help PoS.

So with PoS, what interest rates are we talking? Over how long? If I remove or add coins from my PoS wallet, will it stop earning coins for a while? I heard some coins require holding wallets. How many coins would it generate versus what is generated curently?

The amount of coin generation and all these things are open questions that should also be discussed as a community. As for the premine coins, I have it from the dev that they no longer hold most of them. A lot were given to Chris and a large amount were given away for promotion and bounties. I don't know how much they still hold exactly but it's definitely less than half of the premine.

Shouldn't we know what we are getting into with PoS before we agree?

Must have been too great of bounties then early on, 1.5 million nyan given away within what, a month? 

A lot of coins went to Chris to get the license. I think composed of a greater portion than the bounties that were given away.

[atheistftwins]

Please make your final votes on the algorithm changes.

The options have been narrowed down based on the previous votes. Because of points brought up by atheistftwins, we feel it is not productive to try to implement a hybrid model. Therefore, the choices will be split between X11 and pure POS. Additionally, the the community should vote on whether to decrease supply of the coin going forward, thus making the current amount of NYAN the bulk of the expected coins. If this is done, then only POS is feasible as POW would not be able to sustain a high enough hash rate.

Poll will close in 48 hours and then implementation will begin.

And how are you going to count the votes?

We can for example create a certain number of payment addresses corresponding to the number of voting options.

And after 48 hours, let implementation will begin, the implementation that will get the largest number of coins.

But after 48 hours, all coins should be returned to the address from which they were transferred.

Of others, but I would such a voting system liked )

And such method of voting imho can be used for voting on any question, perhaps this could be one of the a way of using coins for NYAN lovers

(of course, with some automation and limitations, that we can discuss here, if it would be interesting)

Wait what? Just vote from the poll at the top of this thread. What you just described is a ton of work for just a one time use for voting...

Edit: Also, I think one person should count for one vote. Otherwise, it's too skewed in favor of bagholders and will end up with POS for sure. (I am for POS, but I think we should reach that conclusion fairly as a community with equal voices)...your idea benefits me probably more than anyone else here but I still think it's unfair.

[vmv_]

Please make your final votes on the algorithm changes.

The options have been narrowed down based on the previous votes. Because of points brought up by atheistftwins, we feel it is not productive to try to implement a hybrid model. Therefore, the choices will be split between X11 and pure POS. Additionally, the the community should vote on whether to decrease supply of the coin going forward, thus making the current amount of NYAN the bulk of the expected coins. If this is done, then only POS is feasible as POW would not be able to sustain a high enough hash rate.

Poll will close in 48 hours and then implementation will begin.

And how are you going to count the votes?

We can for example create a certain number of payment addresses corresponding to the number of voting options.

And after 48 hours, let implementation will begin, the implementation that will get the largest number of coins.

But after 48 hours, all coins should be returned to the address from which they were transferred.

Of others, but I would such a voting system liked )

And such method of voting imho can be used for voting on any question, perhaps this could be one of the a way of using coins for NYAN lovers

(of course, with some automation and limitations, that we can discuss here, if it would be interesting)

Wait what? Just vote from the poll at the top of this thread. What you just described is a ton of work for just a one time use for voting...

Edit: Also, I think one person should count for one vote. Otherwise, it's too skewed in favor of bagholders and will end up with POS for sure. (I am for POS, but I think we should reach that conclusion fairly as a community with equal voices)...your idea benefits me probably more than anyone else here but I still think it's unfair.

POW ... POS ... KGW ... bebebe

>> is a ton of work for just a one time use for voting...


I am speaking about how to use coins and about way to involve NYAN (not nyancoins) lovers.

POW ... POS ... KGW. who needs a way to implement without the possibility of implementing their coins?

[Simcom]

Can I vote no confidence?

X-11 / POS hybrid was the best option, as the first poll clearly indicated.

The 2nd best option would be:

X-11 w/reduced block rewards - why isn't this one of the choices? 

As for the pure POS, how are we going to get new people excited about NYAN if they cannot mine it??   In order to attract investors we need a community, and to build a community we need a mineable coin.

[atheistftwins]

Can I vote no confidence?

X-11 / POS hybrid was the best option, as the first poll clearly indicated.

The 2nd best option would be:

X-11 w/reduced block rewards - why isn't this one of the choices?  

As for the pure POS, how are we going to get new people excited about NYAN if they cannot mine it??   In order to attract investors we need a community, and to build a community we need a mineable coin.

X-11 w/ reduced block rewards is impossible because it would lead to too low of a network hash rate to protect the coin from 51% attack.

X-11 / POS hybrid with reduced block reward would lead to even lower POW hash rate. Even though it will be protected from attack by the POS portion, it is still not really worth all the effort.

If miners want to join the NYAN community, they can easily mine other coins and buy NYAN. That was what I was doing for quite some time myself, mining NYAN directly isn't the most profitable and I could get more NYAN simply by buying after mining something else like DOGE. Changing to POS from POW does not lead to people not joining the community, they will do so anyways by buying. In fact, if the coin is attractive to investors, we'd actually get more of a community than we have now. I think most of the crypto community nowadays aren't even miners, they are investors. (i.e. blackcoin proved that you can get plenty of interest and a community even after the coin has switched fully to POS from POW).

I have been explaining these points to you over and over again simcom, but you don't seem to answer them at all...

[Simcom]

X-11 w/ reduced block rewards is impossible because it would lead to too low of a network hash rate to protect the coin from 51% attack.

Even if Nyan went to 10% it's current (abysmal) hashrate, it would have a higher hashrate than many other altcoins.  A 51% attack is extremely unlikely (I am only aware of it happening maybe once or twice in the history of altcoins), but I agree - x-11 with reduced rewards is not ideal.

X-11 / POS hybrid with reduced block reward would lead to even lower POW hash rate. Even though it will be protected from attack by the POS portion, it is still not really worth all the effort.

Why is it not worth the effort?  We get to keep a mineable coin that is immune to a 51% attack and has a cool POS feature.

If miners want to join the NYAN community, they can easily mine other coins and buy NYAN. That was what I was doing for quite some time myself, mining NYAN directly isn't the most profitable and I could get more NYAN simply by buying after mining something else like DOGE. Changing to POS from POW does not lead to people not joining the community, they will do so anyways by buying. In fact, if the coin is attractive to investors, we'd actually get more of a community than we have now. I think most of the crypto community nowadays aren't even miners, they are investors. (i.e. blackcoin proved that you can get plenty of interest and a community even after the coin has switched fully to POS from POW).

There needs to be a reason for investors to buy the coin.  What reason can we give them?  Our best hope was to build a strong community like dogecoin.  We had a lot going for us, ip license, huge nyancat following on FB and Twitter, a fun meme. So far though it hasn't panned out for reasons you have described (terrible conversion rate from the nyancat facebook page etc etc).  We could abandon the community/tipping/newbie friendly/ fun coin route and try to market the coin to investors, but it just seems like the wrong move to me. Would you invest in a coin based on a poptart cat internet meme with no community?  Our only hope in my view is to try to build a community, and I think it would be much harder to do that without mining.

I have been explaining these points to you over and over again simcom, but you don't seem to answer them at all...

I am a scientist working 60 hr weeks, with a super high maintenance gf and 2 cats , I often don't have time to respond to every point.    If we go pure POS I will still support the coin, just think it would be a mistake. I appreciate what you are doing for the coin and the subreddit, I know you're pushing what you think is right for the coin.

[Ivan195]

I think we need POS and multipool for other coins with exchange on nyancoin.
Sorry for bad translation.

[balaji]

Dear Dev,

 Hope you have some plans to attract investors to buy NYAN then i would support POS with reduced coin to increase the coin market cap which in turn  gets NYAN to added on standard exchanges which is exactly what we all needed.

 If you don't have any plan's then please change the algorithm to X11 and let us hope for the best.