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Question: How would you rate Bitcoin Savings & Trust?
5 - Excellent
4 - Very Good
3 - Good
2 - Fair
1 - Poor
No comment just show me the results.

Warning: Moderators do not remove likely scams. You must use your own brain: caveat emptor. Watch out for Ponzi schemes. Do not invest more than you can afford to lose.

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Author Topic: Bitcoin Savings and Trust | Home | Closed  (Read 717348 times)
bulanula
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July 02, 2012, 09:52:51 PM
 #1141

As I see it, it's a way to decentralize management of these accounts. Basic account is 3.9%, and those with pass-through will be able to compete to attract lenders into their systems where they can offer better rates than 3.9%. People will have an incentive to go to the pass-through instead, reducing the load of work managing accounts. If 75% of the Bitcoins Pirate needs come from 5 or 6 big accounts of 5000+ BTC, it's a lot less trouble than having thousands of accounts with a smaller amount.

It offer the possibility of different pass-through with different types of offers. Pirate just offered great conditions for an interesting and new pass-through market.

I really like where this is going Smiley Good job Pirate!

Also, I have a question. For Trust account, Pirate, you say you offer 5%+ interest. What is the absolute maximum a Trust can get? If it's not a secret... Smiley

IMHO it is 10.5 because I was here in the days this epic guy was offering 1.5% a DAY !

Good job pirate. Thanks for clarifying your stance towards PPTs and other issues with these accounts.
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Gladamas
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July 02, 2012, 10:15:53 PM
 #1142

 Cry

Would pass-throughs (such as GLBSE bonds) be considered "trust accounts" (managing sub-accounts?) if the issuers fulfill the other requirements?

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July 02, 2012, 10:17:53 PM
 #1143


IMHO it is 10.5 because I was here in the days this epic guy was offering 1.5% a DAY !

Good job pirate. Thanks for clarifying your stance towards PPTs and other issues with these accounts.

Reallly... 10.5%... based on what he paid once upon a time...
he's reducing his rates, not increasing them..
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July 02, 2012, 10:25:48 PM
 #1144

So there's an unlimited amount of limited accounts? Makes perfect sense.

This is the endgame. Don't pity the fools, they were warned sufficiently.
In case you haven't noticed, there already is an unlimited amount of "limited accounts". Anyone can buy a PPT bond at GLBSE for basically as little as 1 BTC.
With this change, all the PPT businesses (assuming they'd use the trusted accounts) should be able to give more than the basic 3.9%, so the obvious point here is to limit the number of accounts and make them bigger. Not, as you are suggesting, to expand the number of accounts...

This does not explain the pointless move of limiting account deposits without limiting accounts. Nor does the whole show with the savings accounts make sense in the first place! Except to distract from the more obscure account rules which help limit withdrawals, but that couldn't be, now could it? It's just an innocent little asterisk or two, surely it doesn't hide more holy inexplicable "rules".

Also, are people seriously paying a "security deposit" for leaving money with someone else? It's kind of hard to express just how nonsensical that is.

Rules are simple. Game runs as long as the majority keeps playing it. If a limit of withdrawals is exceeded, kill switch, game over. If you want to believe something else, then, well okay, you want to believe something else. That's cute, but wishes can only change things you actually have control over.

So will you guys finally wake up and at least save us all the embarrassment of Pirateat40 freely picking the shutdown time? Yes, I am spreading FUD, and I am ignoring the arguably friendly posts telling me to not do so, because FUD is more than appropriate here!

I'm starting to get grumpy against what one could call the Bitcoin Forum mob. I've been trying my best to help turn the rudder on three phases of insanity with near perfect precision in my forecasts, yet all I get is more ignorance. I am not getting anything in return for this, so careful what you wish for, I might just do the favor everyone wants and stop helping people think. Still, it is absolutely not okay to help flooding or flaming away discussions that may help preventing scams. If anyone would care to read some history about Ponzi Schemes, he would know how users' voices are integral to keep them running.

But it's just like the bubble, just like the shorting mania, just like the leverage mania, why read anything if one can post more drivel instead?

This is getting so ridiculous that after it ends, apologies from the mistaken side are in order, either for the "defamation" I am currently doing, or for advertising a scam in one way or the other. I will gladly give a detailed and well-visible apology should I turn out wrong. The point is that I will not be, and the board will get a nice and voluminous blacklist of people who mindlessly or deliberately made all of this happen. It's not as if an observer can tell the difference between being or choosing to be mindless.



TL;DR: you did it, I snapped. After you're done noticing your coins are gone, y'all got some explaining to do. Yarr, that's right mateys.
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July 02, 2012, 10:32:04 PM
 #1145


TL;DR: you did it, I snapped. After you're done noticing your coins are gone, y'all got some explaining to do. Yarr, that's right mateys.

Do you have any coins at stake, or are you simply preaching fire and brimstone?
pirateat40
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July 02, 2012, 10:35:07 PM
 #1146

So there's an unlimited amount of limited accounts? Makes perfect sense.

This is the endgame. Don't pity the fools, they were warned sufficiently.
In case you haven't noticed, there already is an unlimited amount of "limited accounts". Anyone can buy a PPT bond at GLBSE for basically as little as 1 BTC.
With this change, all the PPT businesses (assuming they'd use the trusted accounts) should be able to give more than the basic 3.9%, so the obvious point here is to limit the number of accounts and make them bigger. Not, as you are suggesting, to expand the number of accounts...

This does not explain the pointless move of limiting account deposits without limiting accounts. Nor does the whole show with the savings accounts make sense in the first place! Except to distract from the more obscure account rules which help limit withdrawals, but that couldn't be, now could it?

Also, are people seriously paying a "security deposit" for leaving money with someone else? It's kind of hard to express just how nonsensical that is.

Rules are simple. Game runs as long as the majority keeps playing it. If a limit of withdrawals is exceeded, kill switch, game over. If you want to believe something else, then, well okay, you want to believe something else. That's cute, but wishes can only change things you actually have control over.

So will you guys finally wake up and at least save us all the embarrassment of Pirateat40 freely picking the shutdown time? Yes, I am spreading FUD, and I am ignoring the arguably friendly posts telling me to not do so, because FUD is more than appropriate here!

I'm starting to get grumpy against what one could call the Bitcoin Forum mob. I've been trying my best to help turn the rudder on three phases of insanity with near perfect precision in my forecasts, yet all I get is more ignorance. I am not getting anything in return for this, so careful what you wish for, I might just do the favor everyone wants and stop helping people think. Still, it is absolutely not okay to help flooding or flaming away discussions that may help preventing scams. If anyone would care to read some history about Ponzi Schemes, he would know how users' voices are integral to keep them running.

But it's just like the bubble, just like the shorting mania, just like the leverage mania, why read anything if one can post more drivel instead?

This is getting so ridiculous that after it ends, apologies from the mistaken side are in order, either for the "defamation" I am currently doing, or for advertising a scam in one way or the other. I will gladly give a detailed and well-visible apology should I turn out wrong. The point is that I will not be, and the board will get a nice and voluminous blacklist of people who mindlessly or deliberately made all of this happen. It's not as if an observer can tell the difference.



TL;DR: you did it, I snapped. After you're done noticing your coins are gone, y'all got some explaining to do. Yarr, that's right mateys.

I rarely reply to garbage like this but I'd like to say this...

I expect that when my operation finally ends and not a single coin is lost, you own up to your outlandish claims and apologize to my lenders.

See you then. Smiley

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July 02, 2012, 10:36:52 PM
 #1147

This does not explain the pointless move of limiting account deposits without limiting accounts.
I agree that limiting account size is a bit weird, but I don't understand what kind of argument would it be for you to backup the ponzi theory?

Besides getting new loans to pay off the old debts - it's something that all kind of institutions have been doing for like centuries, all around the world. So why are you jumping on this specific guy? Smiley

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Coin.Karma
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July 02, 2012, 10:40:37 PM
 #1148

pirate, just had an idea, why don't you start an account, where, people can send any amount of money to, as donations basically, it becomes part of the pool. Let that be a non-stop recurring interest account.

You could contribute that as added goodwill to the whole episode at another level altogether.

The forum could have a poll every year, for contributing that money for voted purposes on the forum. Could be anything, but mostly charity oriented.

cheers

do not know if I am talking too much, or you must already have something like that going on.
pirateat40
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July 02, 2012, 10:42:39 PM
 #1149

pirate, just had an idea, why don't you start an account, where, people can send any amount of money to, as donations basically, it becomes part of the pool. Let that be a non-stop recurring interest account.

You could contribute that as added goodwill to the whole episode at another level altogether.

The forum could have a poll every year, for contributing that money for voted purposes on the forum. Could be anything, but mostly charity oriented.

cheers

do not know if I am talking too much, or you must already have something like that going on.

Love it!

bitlane
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July 02, 2012, 10:52:18 PM
 #1150


I rarely reply to garbage like this .......


For a second, I thought that might have also included my previous post....but alas, MY garbage doesn't seem to qualify.

Love the new red parrot on the avatar BTW....

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July 02, 2012, 11:05:57 PM
 #1151

Arrr, polly is a chameleon Grin
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July 02, 2012, 11:15:39 PM
 #1152

I rarely reply to garbage like this but I'd like to say this...

I expect that when my operation finally ends and not a single coin is lost, you own up to your outlandish claims and apologize to my lenders.

See you then. Smiley

Sure. Roll Eyes And, of course, to you personally for my outrageous behavior. After all, I am insulting the nice person who gives anyone free money.

But for now, this is not the situation. Care to actually break the method of the artificially distant Ponzi operator and engage in a brief discussion? After all, I have absolutely no reason to act like this if it is all a big misunderstanding.

Let's keep it simple for starters. We could really use a hint as to why returns are so strongly dependent on the size of individual deposits, if not for the reason documented in the Currin Trading Ponzi (http://web.archive.org/web/20091026234156/http://geocities.com/currintrading/ On a side note, the text also documented neatly why an operator rarely replies to garbage like this).

If time allows, I have one more enigma here: it is quite remarkable how relative fluctuations of deposits degraded over time, isn't it? Or has anyone heard of major series of forced withdrawals lately?

I think these should be valid questions, not just garbage. And, quite frankly, it's not like I am the only person who suspects a Ponzi here. If there is a satisfactory answer, it should help the overall reputation of BS&T quite a bit, independent of whether the question is garbage.


Do you have any coins at stake, or are you simply preaching fire and brimstone?

I am here not only for profit, but out of passion for Bitcoin and its free market. I do not like how "free" at times becomes a synonym for "anarchic". We will all suffer the damage of that, and it outright endangers the project to have all these major shake-ups while the Bitcoin markets are still young and relatively fragile.
pirateat40
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July 02, 2012, 11:20:11 PM
 #1153

I rarely reply to garbage like this but I'd like to say this...

I expect that when my operation finally ends and not a single coin is lost, you own up to your outlandish claims and apologize to my lenders.

See you then. Smiley

Sure. Roll Eyes And, of course, to you personally for my outrageous behavior. After all, I am insulting the nice person who gives anyone free money.

But for now, this is not the situation. Care to actually break the method of the artificially distant Ponzi operator and engage in a brief discussion? After all, I have absolutely no reason to act like this if it is all a big misunderstanding.

Let's keep it simple for starters. We could really use a hint as to why returns are so strongly dependent on the size of individual deposits, if not for the reason documented in the Currin Trading Ponzi (http://web.archive.org/web/20091026234156/http://geocities.com/currintrading/). This one also documented neatly why the operator rarely replies to garbage like this.

If time allows, I have one more enigma here: it is quite remarkable how relative fluctuations of deposits degraded over time, isn't it? Or has anyone heard of major series of forced withdrawals lately?

I think these should be valid questions, not just garbage. And, quite frankly, it's not like I am the only person who suspects a Ponzi here. If there is a satisfactory answer, it should help the overall reputation of BS&T quite a bit, independent of whether the question is garbage.

Reputation? Since when have it tried to SELL SELL SELL anything I do?  Reputation is not something you say, it's created by what you do.

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July 02, 2012, 11:25:34 PM
 #1154

pirate, just had an idea, why don't you start an account, where, people can send any amount of money to, as donations basically, it becomes part of the pool. Let that be a non-stop recurring interest account.

You could contribute that as added goodwill to the whole episode at another level altogether.

The forum could have a poll every year, for contributing that money for voted purposes on the forum. Could be anything, but mostly charity oriented.

cheers

do not know if I am talking too much, or you must already have something like that going on.
There is a very large charity oriented Bitcoin thread:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=52543.0;topicseen

All Pirate customers are welcome to contribute.  And, as you said, a separate charity pool could be formed either based on or in conjunction with the Bitcoin 100.

Bitcoin must have unqualified fungibility to survive as a form of money.  We must support all efforts that protect and improve the fungible nature of Bitcoin and stand firmly against anyone or anything which threatens this essential property.
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July 02, 2012, 11:27:09 PM
 #1155

thats awesome, just goin through the stuff...

cheers
bitlane
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July 02, 2012, 11:30:17 PM
 #1156

Reputation ....... it's created by what you do.

Would that include being more likely to get a response to an attack from someone who you have no dealings with vs that of an honest question put forth by someone who trusts you with an investment ?

Raoul Duke
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PMAE.pt


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July 02, 2012, 11:31:35 PM
 #1157

Vandroyi, 2 words for you: STFU or GTFO.

I know for a fact that Pirate has been refusing new accounts, and I talk about accounts who would give him thousands of BTC to earn if his plan was to just run away with it.
3 days ago I got one of the persons I referred asking me why would'n Pirate accept him/respond to him.
Does that really fit with the story of the link you posted?

You're just a jealous son of a bitch, so do us all a favour and just GTFO...

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July 02, 2012, 11:33:22 PM
 #1158

3. What is the purpose of the security deposit?
4. In the other topic you started about the business you said the business could go on for a very long time with a similar profit margin. If this is true then why reduce the interest so dramatically?

I can't speak for the others, but perhaps I can shed some light on these two.

The security deposit is an incentive to uphold Pirate's good name. After all, reputation is more important than all the Bitcoins in the blockchain, and once tarnished its no easy feat to restore.

Reducing the interest rate is another incentive structure. There's undoubtedly been excessive demand to board Pirate's party ship, but it would be a slap in the face to allow anyone on when the requirements have offered a glorious port for existing depositors over the past several months. It would also be direct competition if Pirate were to offer access to all, causing mass withdrawals from PPT providers and relegating their hard-won efforts to recipients of lower rates. New depositors would be gleeful, but he would risk the ire of others whom had built up their own services.

Lastly, since there are probably plenty of people preferring Pirate's service over PPTs, the trade off will have to be a lower return, resulting in greater profit for Pirate having to take on additional management duties, den if they are mostly automated.

This is an operation being run more responsibly than many brick-and-mortar firms. Dwolla could certainly learn a thing or two. I also have my suspicions that this service may be a primary reasons the exchange rates have been mostly stable since March, making Bitcoin that much more attractive to non-tech businesses. Tip o' th' hat to the Pirate.

* Disclaimer: I hold small deposits at various PPTs which might barely be enough to open an account with Pirate directly. The majority of my assets are put to work through my own efforts elsewhere, because relying on someone else to make everything happen for you often leads to a life not worth living.

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July 02, 2012, 11:34:16 PM
 #1159

Reputation ....... it's created by what you do.

Would that include being more likely to get a response to an attack from someone who you have no dealings with vs that of an honest question put forth by someone who trusts you with an investment ?

 Cheesy

Made me chuckle.
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July 02, 2012, 11:34:39 PM
 #1160

Reputation ....... it's created by what you do.

Would that include being more likely to get a response to an attack from someone who you have no dealings with vs that of an honest question put forth by someone who trusts you with an investment ?

If you have a problem with what I respond to in-thread you can always contact me directly.

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