BC.GAME - CASINO-SPORTBOOK, OFFICIAL SPONSOR LEICESTER CITY!

[Commadante2]

How do BC maintain transparency in their system?

[Sweety2]

BC.Game

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WEBSITE | FACEBOOK | TWITTER | TELEGRAM  | MEDIUM|  DISCORD

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ABOUT BC.GAME :

Based on the Ethereum smart contract, BC.Game guaranteed provable fairness on the grounds of traceable transaction and impossible manipulation

                       

 

WEBSITE | FACEBOOK | TWITTER | TELEGRAM  | MEDIUM|  DISCORD

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Very good platform ever among other spaces in the market. We can say that for sure.Best of luck

[Alexjustin222]

There's a problem with your provably fair method (you copied the bustabit scheme, without doing the "seeding event" to prove that the hash chain itself is fair). In other words: you are proving the games are predetermined, but you're not proving they're from a fair distribution.  Does this qualify for the 100 ETH bounty?

Dear friend,
Thanks for your attention on BC.Game, and it's our great honor to answer your question.
Not just a replica, in 2017 when we have started to engaging in the blockchain market, BC.Game accidentally discovered Bustabit, similar to our originally-created H5 game in 2015 —train crash, followed by a purchase authorization from Bustabit to hash.game with our strong determination on developing games in crypto world.
About the hash fairness, on the base of long-term argumentation and some discussion with Bustabit team, we run numerous statistical tests on random hash seeds reaching a conclusion that the probability is same with impossible manipulation.
Here is the data:
Fair check
https://bcsnproject.github.io/HashCheck/
800k given data is available on our website:
60% probability of result higher than 2x (theoretically 49.505%), in favor of the player betting higher than 2x.
19.9% probability of result higher than 5x (theoretically 19.8%), in favor of the player betting higher than 5x.
9.97% probability of result higher than 10x (theoretically 9.903%), in favor of the player betting higher than 10x.
1.02% probability of result higher than 100x (theoretically 0.99%), in favor of the player betting higher than 100x.

Meanwhile, we can see that the real probability is higher than the theoretical one. But can we draw a conclusion that higher betting has more advantages? Would that make any difference if these data were distributed to each day.
I don’t think we have any conclusion from the above analysis due to different betting ways from each player. Here are some strategies for sure but we can’t say which one is the best.

Now let’s discuss this from a continuity perspective. (1*2 bet)
The number of 6 consecutive occurrences of result which doubles the previous one is 13485 (higher than theoretical one 13261), not in favor for those who stopped their betting at the sixth time.
The number of 7 consecutive occurrences of result which doubles the previous one is 6626(lower than theoretical one 6696), in favor for those who continue their betting at the seventh time.
The number of 8 consecutive occurrences of result which doubles the previous one is 3272(lower than theoretical one 3381), in favor for those who continue their betting at the eighth time.

So, does this help us reach a conclusion? While some strategies are good, some are not. We don’t believe that there is any best seed choice to affect the result. Maybe you want to say that increasing the probability of the result lower than 2x on purpose by the website is to earn more. But this is not guaranteed in some strategies. Even with huge amount of data analysis, you will find that the result lower that 2x is not in high percentage, even less than 0.5%. Greater data provides a result closer to the theoretical. In addition, 10-million data need 10 years to run out. There is no assurance at all when the data distributed each day, week, month and year.
To sum up, no matter which hash seed you are using, it’s a fair game on the grounds that we never know what strategy the player will choose. We prefer to invite more players to come with the better combination way of betting. That’s our goal and advantage.

We also welcome more specific analysis with data and algorithm worth 100ETH. You can run any test on GitHub. But opinion in one sentence is not enough.
https://github.com/BCSNProject/CheckCondition

The only advantage of seed choice is easier understanding for beginners; there is no effect on the fairness of the game. We are trying to use EOS+BTC seeds choices recently for players to make the seeds of this game more decentralized.

Thanks for your big reply.

[Alexjustin222]

We believe it is very trust worthy and reliable platform and should be more popular.

Yep.I hope also that they trust worthy.

[coinlocket$]

In the terms and conditions says "Duck Dice" lol

Did you just copy and paste theirs wonder what else is copy paste or cheaply done.

https://imgur.com/a/ygBWT3s

How do you explain this? I see no answer to this accusation.

[veleten]

In the terms and conditions says "Duck Dice" lol

Did you just copy and paste theirs wonder what else is copy paste or cheaply done.

https://imgur.com/a/ygBWT3s

How do you explain this? I see no answer to this accusation.

come on , do not distract them
they are busy creating shill newbie accounts to say how great their site is 
not only they copy pasted other site's TOS , what is more important  their provably fair system is flawed
think they owe Rhavar 100 eth now

[BTCevo]

We are not saying we will give 100ETH for any player. It's just a way to prove our crash game is fair. If you dont think our site is trusted and be able to prove manipulation. We will pay 100ETH.

So in the end you guys do not intend to payout 100 eth to players even though they have found out something likw bug or any unfair system? Do you even have this 100 eth on your wallet? By saying that, you guys offer something that you guys do not have and by saying that thing you want to proof that your site is fair? This is really hard to believe on things that you said

[coinlocket$]

come on , do not distract them
they are busy creating shill newbie accounts to say how great their site is 
not only they copy pasted other site's TOS , what is more important  their provably fair system is flawed
think they owe Rhavar 100 eth now

Oh, I missed it! Even TOS are copied. I guess they will no answer for a lot longer on this thread than.

[BC.GAME]

We are not saying we will give 100ETH for any player. It's just a way to prove our crash game is fair. If you dont think our site is trusted and be able to prove manipulation. We will pay 100ETH.

So in the end you guys do not intend to payout 100 eth to players even though they have found out something likw bug or any unfair system? Do you even have this 100 eth on your wallet? By saying that, you guys offer something that you guys do not have and by saying that thing you want to proof that your site is fair? This is really hard to believe on things that you said

I already replied about the "fairness bug" with a long explanation. It's your right to ignore what we said and just keep saying you are not fair without even try our game.

[BC.GAME]

We are not saying we will give 100ETH for any player. It's just a way to prove our crash game is fair. If you dont think our site is trusted and be able to prove manipulation. We will pay 100ETH.

So in the end you guys do not intend to payout 100 eth to players even though they have found out something likw bug or any unfair system? Do you even have this 100 eth on your wallet? By saying that, you guys offer something that you guys do not have and by saying that thing you want to proof that your site is fair? This is really hard to believe on things that you said

I already replied about the "fairness bug" with a long explanation. It's your right to ignore what we said and just keep saying you are not fair without even try our game.

And, If you can prove our website is not fair, in a more specific way, show your evidence, your algorithm. 100ETH is definitely provided for sure!. We are not saying we are perfect and we welcome talented person to work with us to improve our algorithm.  But we are not giving it to some random player to say you are not fair in one sentence.

[BC.GAME]

In the terms and conditions says "Duck Dice" lol

Did you just copy and paste theirs wonder what else is copy paste or cheaply done.

https://imgur.com/a/ygBWT3s

How do you explain this? I see no answer to this accusation.

come on , do not distract them
they are busy creating shill newbie accounts to say how great their site is 
not only they copy pasted other site's TOS , what is more important  their provably fair system is flawed
think they owe Rhavar 100 eth now

It's like you are saying your provably fair system is flawed because your fair system is flawed. And now we have to pay 100ETH for that logic? Haha, I dont think so....100 ETH will be paid for sure if you give me the evidence, like what algorithm you run to prove we manipulate the game. If we can have somebody to improve our fair system. 100ETH is totally worth it.

[BC.GAME]

In the terms and conditions says "Duck Dice" lol

Did you just copy and paste theirs wonder what else is copy paste or cheaply done.

https://imgur.com/a/ygBWT3s

How do you explain this? I see no answer to this accusation.

Thanks so much for pointing that out, and we will update that. We are not perfect and when we hire a translation company to run Website's English version, there may some content from other websites to use as a reference. We will do our best to avoid that. Thanks again.

[slaman29]

There's two points here I see as an objective viewer. Point 1, some parts of the site were copied. A sample is the ToS from Duck Dice, which itself has a bad reputation in the past. Point 2, the site's method is found to be unfair, and demonstrated, so I guess the reward should be given to RHavar, but only if someone else can also confirm that this is true, I think. I am not defending anybody, I think RHavar deserves some kind of reward.

Problem is, I don't get how all these things work. I understand the concept, just not the calculation (sorry I don't know how to explain better).

[omonuyak]

How can we be sure the game will not be manipulated? I will like to see prove from an independent body to really analyze this system and provide advice about this bc game. Because anything unfair reward should be looked into with third eyes!

[BC.GAME]

You have a great bonus system with refular rewards for various kinds of players. You are also saying that you developed the bustabit-like game on your own. Congrats if you did, 'cause it's one of my favorites. Since your website is new, I think a small faucet to attract new players wouldn't hurt. Well, to be honest, maybe you already have it, but something went wrong... Once I registered, I received a notification about a successful 8888 JB deposit (don't know what that is). I also managed to place a bet, but when I pushed "crash out" around 1.8, it wrote "cannot_escape" in a small button-like field. I wonder what that meant and whether a user is supposed to see these things... Oh, and it took 1 JB I used for a bet away, as if I lost it, even though I pushed the button before the chart 'banged'..

Thanks so much for registration. 8888JB is our platform game coin and it's good to play but not on any exchanges yet.
Since CRASH is a real-time online game (a game in which customers interact with it via the Internet), there is a delay between the time you click on the “Cash Out” button and the time when the server receives your cash out instruction. The best way to avoid damages caused by Internet lag is to use the automatic cash-out function. Since your automatic cash out is sent to the server at the same time when you place your bet, the server can execute your cash out instruction precisely and regardless of the lag.

We strongly suggest that our player set their bet and payout before game start to avoid any cost by the late of the server. For example, if you bet 1 eth and escape at 2x, you still can escape when it hit 1.5.

If any damage caused by the false of our website system that you can prove, please talk to our customer service on TELEGRAM. We may pay you back if it's proved that it is our fault.

[mOgliE]

Just to add some nuance: it's not so much their method is unfair, it's just that it's not "provably fair". I actually doubt very much they've picked a bias hash chain, but we really have no way of knowing (hence not provably fair).

Yeah and... Honestly I find it dubious how they're pushing you on the invest part.

Lots of casino have the option to invest of course. But here there is more advertisement for the investment than for the games itself.

I don't believe it's safe to invest somewhere without any reputation, asking you so much about your money.
Don't play dumb.

[BTCevo]

We are not saying we will give 100ETH for any player. It's just a way to prove our crash game is fair. If you dont think our site is trusted and be able to prove manipulation. We will pay 100ETH.

So in the end you guys do not intend to payout 100 eth to players even though they have found out something likw bug or any unfair system? Do you even have this 100 eth on your wallet? By saying that, you guys offer something that you guys do not have and by saying that thing you want to proof that your site is fair? This is really hard to believe on things that you said

I already replied about the "fairness bug" with a long explanation. It's your right to ignore what we said and just keep saying you are not fair without even try our game.

Without even try your game? Do you even aware about your customers that in and out? By saying this, I believe that you are very unaware about whoever comes to your site and play. Even this simple things you can't get it, how to keep your site to the better one. I am just asking for proof that you are holding 100 eth in case that someone really find a bug on your site, yet you insult me with something like "not even try the site" thing?

Just remind you, better do not say something that you dont even have it from the start. If something like this you already cheat, how about the provably fair system?

[BC.GAME]

Dear RHavar,
     Thanks so much for your big reply. It’s our great honor to talk with the code creator of Bustabit. Hats off to this great game which create a new level for gambling in blockchain world. We couldn’t be more welcome any player to share some insightful idea like you and such constructive discussion is definitely helping us to generate even better idea.


     Since our analysis is based on the idea of a random seed. Here is our point.

1.   There is no manipulation on our seed picking. We believe that “the longer the game runs, the less the statistical difference.” Here is our data, anyone can run a test on it.

https://github.com/BCSNProject/HashCheck
https://bcsnproject.github.io/HashCheck/#/simple

Chain A: seed=680597CDC84B239A1C0475C89E0CC5380B1DDF367772C8F3055742C6ACB2C3FF
Result: 4.63, 2.36, 1.22, 2.225, 2.56

Chain B: seed=6AA9D8D8BD428C4277F613E74AC1AAE2A81EAF7DAF24C4D459FA030AA63C03D5
Result: 1.04, 1.00, 1.07, 1.28, 1.02


Chain C: seed=60CC3C97D3C80396437AF43F3AAC84A460EF2EBA88E79C2D4AC1218DD1923002
Result: 1.76, 2.43, 15.27, 3.55, 1.09


Now from this, we can *clearly* see that  B would be the best for the house. Of course the longer the game runs, the less the statistical differences are -- but for the few *years* of games, the house edge can easily have been manipulated to 2x what they should be. The cheating can easily be done with an algorithm:

As a developer, I feel necessary to share my view and doubts with you and about how we started this journey.

When we found out about Bustabit, we were wondering did they use any seed choice in version 1.0? We don’t think so, and that’s why we didn’t choose seed manipulation. You may wonder why, haha. To be honest, our seed was based on some randomly-generated memory words for ETH wallet because we were not sure how to do the seed choice favorable to the house. Were we dumb then? And like what I said, it has been almost a year since our foundation, and we haven’t changed our seed once.

There were some challenges for sure. Our experience of 500 ETH lost in one day really raised doubts about whether any player knew about the seed choice. But:

a.   We didn’t refuse any withdrawal.
b.   We didn’t change our seed.
c.   Never try to cover the loss with seed manipulation.
d.   The player continued to play with his strategy and lost 400 ETH back.

Although we didn’t change our seed, we have started to think about why this could happen? We spend a lot of time making a data comparison between BG.Game and Bustabit, to figure out why our high x probability is higher than Bustabit with greater seed activity.

Anyone can do that from the following link:
https://github.com/BCSNProject/HashCheck

We even doubted that they do the seed manipulation but we couldn’t convince ourselves how and why.

Then we reach a conclusion and also brought us back to your advice. Will that make any difference if to use an additional seed.

“The best solution is to do what bustabit has done, use a *future* bitcoin-block hash as an additional seed (after committing to a single chain). This makes it impossible for you to run the "brute force" attack to pick a seed that is favorable to the house.”

We don’t believe that additional seed will affect the result to the player in the long term

Chain A
Seed     680597CDC84B239A1C0475C89E0CC5380B1DDF367772C8F3055742C6ACB2C3FF
Result   1.25, 1.79, 2.05, 1.26, 4.66
   
Additional 1 ecca5ad2314b272c0870c5f350b999c4080b703093789c8e6c4d4150aaa03a01
Result 1.85, 2.12, 6.33, 12.02, 1.14

Additional2  182ef24a825bdd37d6d2976ccfbf5b5e58238ba04a6b53434043acfb34fb517a
Result 1.04, 3.09, 4.84, 6.08, 1.03
   

Chain B
Seed    6AA9D8D8BD428C4277F613E74AC1AAE2A81EAF7DAF24C4D459FA030AA63C03D5
Result  8.06, 17.61, 6.96, 1.14, 1.13
   
Additional 1   ecca5ad2314b272c0870c5f350b999c4080b703093789c8e6c4d4150aaa03a01
Result          1.37, 13.65, 2.49, 3.87, 1
   
Additional 2    182ef24a825bdd37d6d2976ccfbf5b5e58238ba04a6b53434043acfb34fb517a
Result            1.15, 5.5, 2.79, 2.28, 4.77
   
   
Chain C

Seed   60CC3C97D3C80396437AF43F3AAC84A460EF2EBA88E79C2D4AC1218DD1923002
Result 1.01, 8.28, 2.79, 5.13, 1.12
   
Additional1   ecca5ad2314b272c0870c5f350b999c4080b703093789c8e6c4d4150aaa03a01
Result  4.38, 1.89, 2.54, 2.01, 1.5
   
Additional 2  182ef24a825bdd37d6d2976ccfbf5b5e58238ba04a6b53434043acfb34fb517a
Result  8.91, 1.57, 1.21, 1.74, 1.72


1.   From this, we agree that with an additional seed, the original seed has no impact on the result.
2.   Additional seed may also cause the condition favorable to the house like Chain C additional 2.
3.   The longer the game runs, the less the statistical difference.

But will additional seed helps solve the problem? Why do some platforms need seed manipulation? Because they need the game favorable to the house. What if additional seed just created a result with low x like Chain C additional 2? How can we make sure it won't?

So to sum up, we don’t think the additional seed is the solution and we are not and will be never use seed manipulation. Only math analysis and data comparison can tell you whether you are using a good one. Not saying we are 100% right, corrections are welcomed.

We are trying our best to help players increasing their experience, such as referral, investment, refund. Reputation and services are both important if we don’t want to be just a “few years” game. We are far from perfect yet but we have great model to learn from, like Bustabit.

We are all growing through open discussion and continuous improvement. Thanks again for all who contributes your idea.

[BC.GAME]

Just to add some nuance: it's not so much their method is unfair, it's just that it's not "provably fair". I actually doubt very much they've picked a bias hash chain, but we really have no way of knowing (hence not provably fair).

Yeah and... Honestly I find it dubious how they're pushing you on the invest part.

Lots of casino have the option to invest of course. But here there is more advertisement for the investment than for the games itself.

I don't believe it's safe to invest somewhere without any reputation, asking you so much about your money.
Don't play dumb.

Haha, we are a game platform, and investment is just one of our option. It's totally up to you. It's like a restaurant serving beef and pork, if you just want pork, we can not force you to eat beef, but it's our right to provide it. We know we need to build a reputation and it's totally understandable you have doubt and question. We are working on it. Thanks for your attention.

[BC.GAME]

To sum up what you said:
1. You are not saying we are cheating
2. There is a possibility for seed manipulation
3. Our scheme gives users no way to prove whether we are fair.

I believe you, but we have no way to know that. Which is my entire point =)

Thanks for believing us. Such discussion is valuable advice to us and we really appreciate. Though we are not seasoned in blockchain game world, and many things and methods are in the process of exploration for us, seed manipulation is never an option for BC.Game. That's why we are so confident to ask users to prove any unfairness, we are so sure they can't, which you can tell from historical data on Github that we didn't double the expected profit.

But, based on what we discussed, which brings another question for us to think, users can't prove we are unfair while they can't prove we are fair either. We could have doubled our expected profit, which we didn't. It's just what we have now is not very convincing on impossible manipulation. We start to think about using server seed+additional seed. Since we never change our seed once, maybe our plan is to use EOS+BTS hash as an additional seed with our server seed starting from any result of the game. Before we make any decision, there is still something to think about.