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Author Topic: [UNO] Unobtanium Info & Discussion - Merge Mine w/BTC! - Update NOW to qt 0.11.0  (Read 1039859 times)
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FallingKnife
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November 29, 2014, 08:57:31 PM
 #4381



Firts day already 6.3 coins :-D

Wow, that would be about 1/3 of the total estimated Uno daily production. How much hash are you bringing?

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November 29, 2014, 11:38:55 PM
 #4382

Global Mall Unobtanium

First, are there any on-line-saleable products that anyone in the community can obtain wholesale?

Think of this community/Un-Ex/face-to-face meet-ups/DVC/on-line-saleable products as the foundation of Global Mall Unobtanium.

One of the first ‘products’ should be $500 chunks of Genesis-mining.

The community member ‘signs up’ a family member or colleague, who puts up the $500. The community member runs the show, and receives as commission 10% of the incoming coin, which is itself likely to circulate in the Mall.

IndiaMikeZulu has two such models, and a third in the pipeline.*

Note the fine balance between the enterprising individual and the enabling community:

each community member is solely responsible for her actions. There is no corporation, no legal entity. However, as with the bullion verification involved with DVC – the trust and dynamism of community members for the community makes possible projects that would be untenable for the individual.

*There’s nothing exploitative about this. One Big Lesson that IndiaMikeZulu has learned from its ‘on-da-street’ development is that people are just too busy!!!!!

They may understand in principle that cryptos will be huge, but getting started and staying up to date is just too hard.

Meanwhile, you, dear reader, are a citizen of planet crypto. Even if the 10%-es just paid our long-term Net-data and computer-maintenance costs, it would be win-win.
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November 29, 2014, 11:44:45 PM
 #4383

Welcome, Zeta

Mark
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November 29, 2014, 11:53:19 PM
 #4384

Gotcha, and thanks FK!  I just signed up, but I screwed up doing so -- thinking that choosing USD payment would allow me to use a credit card.  No, bank wire only.  I hate bank wires.  Smiley

I've got a support ticket in on hopefully changing it from USD to BTC where I could then do a simple coinbase transfer.
I made the same mistake. Just do make another order for bitcoin. The USD order will expire on it's own.
Well, actually you can cancel an order yourself from the Dashboard page. All orders are there, at the bottom of the page, including status and a cancel option if you haven't paid yet.

Thank you FK.  I started to try your suggestion but decided to wait until I heard from their "freshdesk" support since I had gotten about a $25 discount from the recently suggested "MOON" promo code when signing up, and if I did your "let the bank wire expire and do another order" suggestion, it showed the new order would be without the discount.

I noticed I had no emails from them, so I went to their freshdesk support page.  My support ticket about *changing* the order from USD to BTC had been "closed"!  No answer, no nothing, just closed.  It's like they thought, "What kind of stupid request is this?" and just closed it without consideration of a response.

So Mike, I took your suggestion and canceled the order, then went to the "Upgrade hashpower" part.  Same deal, no discount.

Yes, a lost $25 discount on a $779 order doesn't break the bank, but it's the principle of the thing, so I'm a little miffed at Genesis Mining at the moment.  I've replied to the abruptly closed ticket.  I'm holding out on ordering anything for a "let's wait and see" for now.

PS.  I was actually looking forward to maybe selling my two Antminer S3's (awesome miners, by the way) and my odd collection of some 27 USB ASICs (various Antminer U2s, BiFury's, NanoFury's and one lonely old Block Erupter Smiley, five of those cute little USB cooling fans, and three USB hubs.  The Antminers run more or less standalone, they just need to be connected to one's router; the USB ASICs on the other hand require an always-on PC with mining software (I use MultiMiner) on that PC.  A decent and cost-effective cloud-mining solution sounds pretty enticing, but I want to make sure I know who I'm dealing with ...
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November 30, 2014, 12:02:04 AM
 #4385

Update:  Approximately 30 seconds after I posted that about Genesis Mining just now, I got this response from them:

Quote
Hi Jelks,

Oh I am so sorry, I thought I had sent you this reply a while ago, but I just realised that i closed it without sending it.
I do appologise. Here was the answer I had written.

On the screen where you can choose your hashpower, if you click on the box that is labelled as US Dollar, it is a drop down box, so you should see other options for BTC and Litecoin for example and others.

If you go to your dashboard and scroll down, you will see a section, titled. 'My Orders'. You should see your USD dollar there and the option to cancel it. That is all you need to do.

Hope this helps.

Just to add, on Monday we are doing a 10 % discount on contracts, so perhaps it might be an idea to hold off to Monday so you can get that saving.
Once again,really sorry about closing your ticket.


Best regards,
Craig Kiltie
Genesis Mining

So I feel much better about them now, and will order on Monday with the 10% discount!   Roll Eyes



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November 30, 2014, 12:20:49 AM
 #4386

Firts day already 6.3 coins :-D

Wow, that would be about 1/3 of the total estimated Uno daily production.

No kidding!  Cheesy

Quote
How much hash are you bringing?

Hypothetical situation:  Let's say 3 people each throw, oh, 1,000 TH/s (TH/s, not GH/s) at UNO mining.  What does that do to UNO production?  15 coins a day is 15 coins a day.  And what does that do for each of those three miners (not to mention all the other 2-bit miners on board)?
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November 30, 2014, 01:14:17 AM
 #4387

Firts day already 6.3 coins :-D

Wow, that would be about 1/3 of the total estimated Uno daily production.

No kidding!  Cheesy

Quote
How much hash are you bringing?
And what does that do for each of those three miners (not to mention all the other 2-bit miners on board)?


It' get them the community's respect, and a share of the future. We respect Un miners here. Thanks for mining Un.

.03125 Un doesn't seem like much now, and it's probably not even profitable at curret prices. But I believe it will be tomorrow.  
Early bitcoin mining was also unprofitable.   We're building something special here, one block at a time, on investor at a time, one community member at a time.  I'll take every tiny piece of it I can get.

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November 30, 2014, 01:29:11 AM
Last edit: November 30, 2014, 01:50:44 AM by BitcoinNational
 #4388


Hypothetical situation:  Let's say 3 people each throw, oh, 1,000 TH/s (TH/s, not GH/s) at UNO mining.  What does that do to UNO production?  15 coins a day is 15 coins a day.  And what does that do for each of those three miners (not to mention all the other 2-bit miners on board)?


1,000 TH/s is $700k?  (to lazy to check the math)

Safe to say they now have 100% control of new production.  And can sell it off for about $45/day ... I think it will be a while to regain the $700k investment.  Or worst they are malicious, but not in their interest having wager such a big bet.

1,000 TH/s would put Uno in the rank of Peer.  And 1/250th of the almighty and powerful bitcoin network.  Basically untouchable.

The implication is that no new UNO would be entering the market until prices increase to the $100s.

Such deep pockets would also be well served to lay $500k on the bottom line support level in the books.  And ever so slowly creep the bottom bid price 'wall' up and up and up.  

Now that would create an environment with no new uno being sold off and an ever rising solid support level.  

End game ... the big investor would need to recoup at least $1 million.  And would also hopefully have the intelligence not to crack the market when selling off in increments.  Or they could simply HODL until $1 Billion in market cap and then million smillion ... plenty of ROI to be had.

-----
Quote
First, are there any on-line-saleable products that anyone in the community can obtain wholesale?

Think of this community/Un-Ex/face-to-face meet-ups/DVC/on-line-saleable products as the foundation of Global Mall Unobtanium.

One of the first ‘products’ should be $500 chunks of Genesis-mining.

@M ... yes on the wholesale.  But I'm hold off on this possibility until daily volume is averaging above 10btc ... looking at summer 2015 or after to move that way.

$500 chunks of Genesis-mining ... Smiley ... if person in that loop reads this ... sell the Uno Community G/hash coupons or transferable contracts ... then we can extend your customer base.

But the promocodes/commissions function the same way.  We (tech savvy Uno fans) get friends and family on the gig.  That means we set them up with wallets and stuff.  Then help them to get a genesis account and route the payouts to their wallet.  They don't have to know a damn thing about mining just teach them to check the Uno client for new funds.  Very simple.  Then ring them when Uno goes up in price Cheesy  

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Jelks
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November 30, 2014, 02:01:51 AM
 #4389


Hypothetical situation:  Let's say 3 people each throw, oh, 1,000 TH/s (TH/s, not GH/s) at UNO mining.  What does that do to UNO production?  15 coins a day is 15 coins a day.  And what does that do for each of those three miners (not to mention all the other 2-bit miners on board)?


Safe to say they now have 100% control of new production.  

Thanks BN, I guess my real question was more of a technical one along the lines of "how does that effect the network?". 

unobtanium.uno says the current network hashrate is about 16.5 TH/s (I think FK said earlier today it was then about 25 TH/s).  Let's assume an average of about 20 TH/s.  Those 20 TH/s are creating 15 coins a day.

Now let's say (hypothetically) tomorrow 3 big-bucks folks come in and each start throwing in 1,000 TH/s for a grand total of 3,020 TH/s (3,000 + the current average 20).

How does that extra hashing power effect the network?  What does that "do" to (or for) the network at the current stage of the game?

There are still going to be only 15 coins a day.  How are these coins going to be any more "special" than the ones created by only 20 TH/s?  Does the block chain somehow become super more efficient in some way?

Wouldn't that extra hashing power be essentially being "thrown away", at least until such time as the value of UNO has skyrocketed and the block reward has halved dozens and dozens of times?
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November 30, 2014, 02:26:56 AM
Last edit: November 30, 2014, 05:02:49 AM by FallingKnife
 #4390


Hypothetical situation:  Let's say 3 people each throw, oh, 1,000 TH/s (TH/s, not GH/s) at UNO mining.  What does that do to UNO production?  15 coins a day is 15 coins a day.  And what does that do for each of those three miners (not to mention all the other 2-bit miners on board)?


Safe to say they now have 100% control of new production.  

Thanks BN, I guess my real question was more of a technical one along the lines of "how does that effect the network?".  

unobtanium.uno says the current network hashrate is about 16.5 TH/s (I think FK said earlier today it was then about 25 TH/s).  Let's assume an average of about 20 TH/s.  Those 20 TH/s are creating 15 coins a day.

Now let's say (hypothetically) tomorrow 3 big-bucks folks come in and each start throwing in 1,000 TH/s for a grand total of 3,020 TH/s (3,000 + the current average 20).

How does that extra hashing power effect the network?  What does that "do" to (or for) the network at the current stage of the game?

There are still going to be only 15 coins a day.  How are these coins going to be any more "special" than the ones created by only 20 TH/s?  Does the block chain somehow become super more efficient in some way?

Wouldn't that extra hashing power be essentially being "thrown away", at least until such time as the value of UNO has skyrocketed and the block reward has halved dozens and dozens of times?

You're right that more hash doesn't mean more Uno, as KGW resets difficulty every block to average 3 minute blocks over time. This is different from Bitcoin which resets difficulty every 2016 blocks;  with Btc more hash does mean more coins faster (< 10 minutes). Not with Uno.  If hash was low enough, you could run the Uno network off of your block erupters.

More hash, when distributed, helps to secure the network against various attacks, such as a 51% attack, or double spend attacks.
In a manner of speaking, Uno is protected not only by Kgw but by it's low block reward. While Btc still gives 25 btc/block, Uno's reward is getting extremely low so that attackers have less incentive; there are just easier coins to attack.  

I have a computer here that mines various forgotten sha256 coins off of block erupters, for no other reason that I can simply do it.  I have no illusions that anything will ever come from it, it's just sort of fun for now.  All these networks run just fine on low hash.  

I once did my own "51% attack" against one of the networks after I accidentally send a large % of the coins to a dead address. As the sole miner, it was simple for me to back up the block chain and create new blocks to write over my mistake and bring back my lost coins  (How do you do it?  Start by downloading the blockchain to a new client on computer 1, but stop it before the block you want to overwrite; setup a private network between two computers; synch client on computer 2 to partial blockchain on computer 1;  start up the miners on our private network and create a longer chain than the real one; put them both back online and the network will accept the new longer chain).   But it becomes much more difficult to attack when there are other miners pushing the network forward, syncing the block chain.  Ideally, you don't want anyone to control more than 51% of the network; it's not an automatic tragedy if that happens, but goes to the integrity of the blockchain.

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November 30, 2014, 02:27:41 AM
 #4391

@ Bitcoin National: good advice!! That gives us months to (a) get twenty or thirty TTs involved in DVC, (b) develop Un-Ex further, and (c) get more familiar with Genesis -- but we can start haggling for discounts for DVC holders -- we already have one: a 10% discount on anarcoin products once  BigTimeSpaghetti is 'signed up' for DVC.


"$500 chunks of Genesis-mining ... Smiley ... if person in that loop reads this ... sell the Uno Community G/hash coupons or transferable contracts ... then we can extend your customer base." Woo hoo!! I look forward to your technical help with this!

I would suggest that the 'customer's' only 'contact' with their Genesis-mining set-up be their Uno wallet, which we teach them to update. So, they give us the money; we run the whole show; 10 Uno comes as payment into our wallet; 9 is passed to theirs.

Anyway, I knew you would understand the basic idea!!

Mark (IndiaMikeZulu), Australia
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November 30, 2014, 02:39:24 AM
 #4392


Hypothetical situation:  Let's say 3 people each throw, oh, 1,000 TH/s (TH/s, not GH/s) at UNO mining.  What does that do to UNO production?  15 coins a day is 15 coins a day.  And what does that do for each of those three miners (not to mention all the other 2-bit miners on board)?


Safe to say they now have 100% control of new production.  

Thanks BN, I guess my real question was more of a technical one along the lines of "how does that effect the network?".  

unobtanium.uno says the current network hashrate is about 16.5 TH/s (I think FK said earlier today it was then about 25 TH/s).  Let's assume an average of about 20 TH/s.  Those 20 TH/s are creating 15 coins a day.

Now let's say (hypothetically) tomorrow 3 big-bucks folks come in and each start throwing in 1,000 TH/s for a grand total of 3,020 TH/s (3,000 + the current average 20).

How does that extra hashing power effect the network?  What does that "do" to (or for) the network at the current stage of the game?

There are still going to be only 15 coins a day.  How are these coins going to be any more "special" than the ones created by only 20 TH/s?  Does the block chain somehow become super more efficient in some way?

Wouldn't that extra hashing power be essentially being "thrown away", at least until such time as the value of UNO has skyrocketed and the block reward has halved dozens and dozens of times?

You're right that more hash doesn't mean more Uno, as KGW resets difficulty every block to average 3 minute blocks over time. This is different from Bitcoin which resets difficult every 2016 blocks;  with Btc more hash does mean more coins faster (< 10 minutes). Not with Uno.  If hash was low enough, you could run the Uno network off of your block erupters.

More hash, when distributed, helps to secure the network against various attacks, such as a 51% attack, or double spend attacks.
In a manner of speaking, Uno is protected not only by Kgw but by it's low block reward. While Btc still gives 25 btc/block, Uno's reward is getting extremely low so that attackers have less incentive; there are just easier coins to attack.  

I have a computer here that mines various forgotten sha256 coins off of block erupters, for no other reason that I can simply do it.  I have no illusions that anything will ever come from it, it's just sort of fun for now.  All these networks run just fine on low hash.  I once did my own "51% attack" against one of the networks after I accidentally send a large % of the coins to a dead address. As the sole miner, it was simple for me to back up the block chain and create new blocks to write over my the mistake and bring back my lost coins.   But it becomes much more difficult to attack when there are other miners pushing the network forward, syncing the block chain.  Ideally, you don't want anyone to control more than 51% of the network; it's not an automatic tragedy if that happens, but goes to the integrity of the blockchain.


thanks for explaining that, FK.  You've got a great way of putting things in "plain english" that average users can understand.
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November 30, 2014, 02:40:22 AM
 #4393

Yes only 15 coins a day.  

And at next block halving ... less ... half as less Smiley

Even if 100000TH of the power from the bitcoin network switches over.

The issue with the difficult is a bit above my pay grade.  But my guess is that if 3,020 TH/s comes online then a couple of blocks will be mined very quickly, then if the 3,020 TH/s  goes offline and we drop back to 20 TH/s then the network might hang for a while until the algo says time to reduce the 'difficulty'.


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FallingKnife
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November 30, 2014, 03:14:36 AM
Last edit: November 30, 2014, 03:27:18 AM by FallingKnife
 #4394

Yes only 15 coins a day.  

And at next block halving ... less ... half as less Smiley

Even if 100000TH of the power from the bitcoin network switches over.

The issue with the difficult is a bit above my pay grade.  But my guess is that if 3,020 TH/s comes online then a couple of blocks will be mined very quickly, then if the 3,020 TH/s  goes offline and we drop back to 20 TH/s then the network might hang for a while until the algo says time to reduce the 'difficulty'.



Yes, if the network hash suddenly drops by, say 50%, then it will take the remaining miners twice as long to mine through the high difficulty block. But after that, KGW will quickly lower difficulty and try to average 3 minute blocks. So miners who put in the work to push through the difficult block will probably be rewarded with a few less difficult/faster blocks.  

KGW came about because there were a lot of coins (many now dead, RIP) that  got hung up on high diff blocks after switch pools came along. They mined the easy profitable blocks and when difficulty jumped, they left the hard unprofitable blocks for everyone else to mine.  The problem was compounded if the network only adjusted difficulty every 2 weeks, or xx number of blocks; nobody wanted to put in all the work only to have it stranded again.

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November 30, 2014, 03:22:44 AM
 #4395



Firts day already 6.3 coins :-D

Wow, that would be about 1/3 of the total estimated Uno daily production. How much hash are you bringing?

A 1000 Terra Hash Hashes lol.  No i made a typo Exactly numbers: 0.63 coins.Yes  0.63 Not 6.3   Cry

Get a HUGE 3% discount with promo code: MOON @ Genesis Mining
https://www.genesis-mining.com
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November 30, 2014, 04:07:57 AM
 #4396

Firts day already 6.3 coins :-D

Wow, that would be about 1/3 of the total estimated Uno daily production. How much hash are you bringing?

A 1000 Terra Hash Hashes lol.  No i made a typo Exactly numbers: 0.63 coins.Yes  0.63 Not 6.3   Cry

Thank you for that typo!  It brought out one of the more interesting and informative discussions I've seen here.  I now even have a clue as to what "KGW" does.   Smiley

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November 30, 2014, 06:22:50 AM
 #4397

You're right that more hash doesn't mean more Uno, as KGW resets difficulty every block to average 3 minute blocks over time. This is different from Bitcoin which resets difficulty every 2016 blocks;  with Btc more hash does mean more coins faster (< 10 minutes). Not with Uno.  If hash was low enough, you could run the Uno network off of your block erupters.

More hash, when distributed, helps to secure the network against various attacks, such as a 51% attack, or double spend attacks.
In a manner of speaking, Uno is protected not only by Kgw but by it's low block reward. While Btc still gives 25 btc/block, Uno's reward is getting extremely low so that attackers have less incentive; there are just easier coins to attack.  

I have a computer here that mines various forgotten sha256 coins off of block erupters, for no other reason that I can simply do it.  I have no illusions that anything will ever come from it, it's just sort of fun for now.  All these networks run just fine on low hash.  

Very interesting, FK.  Thank you.

I once did my own "51% attack" against one of the networks after I accidentally send a large % of the coins to a dead address. As the sole miner, it was simple for me to back up the block chain and create new blocks to write over my mistake and bring back my lost coins  (How do you do it?  Start by downloading the blockchain to a new client on computer 1, but stop it before the block you want to overwrite; setup a private network between two computers; synch client on computer 2 to partial blockchain on computer 1;  start up the miners on our private network and create a longer chain than the real one; put them both back online and the network will accept the new longer chain).   But it becomes much more difficult to attack when there are other miners pushing the network forward, syncing the block chain.  Ideally, you don't want anyone to control more than 51% of the network; it's not an automatic tragedy if that happens, but goes to the integrity of the blockchain.

Wow.  Absolutely fascinating!

OK, so back to UNO.  Again, assuming a current average 20 TH/s, say a John Doe all of a sudden throws an additional 100 TH/s at UNO mining.  That's way more than 51%.   So what (I think) you're saying is that John Doe owing that huge majority percentage of hashing power is not in and of itself a bad thing, but that if "John Doe" were actually a pseudonym for Dr. Evil, the UNO network might be in danger of some serious hanky-panky.  Do I understand you correctly?
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November 30, 2014, 06:38:58 AM
Last edit: November 30, 2014, 07:03:53 AM by gustav
 #4398



OK, so back to UNO.  Again, assuming a current average 20 TH/s, say a John Doe all of a sudden throws an additional 100 TH/s at UNO mining.  That's way more than 51%.   So what (I think) you're saying is that John Doe owing that huge majority percentage of hashing power is not in and of itself a bad thing, but that if "John Doe" were actually a pseudonym for Dr. Evil, the UNO network might be in danger of some serious hanky-panky.  Do I understand you correctly?

same goes for all pow-coins. Let's not even talk about pos.  Roll Eyes (pos is open for various fatal attacks)

100Th/s would be a serious mining farm though.

Looking to secure the network should be No.1 priority for uno to make sure it can operate reliably at all times.
The more hash the merrier. Wink
Better price helps too.  
51% attack is normally not the end of the world but would be uncomfortable for sure. Best is prevention.
Dr. Evil will not be able to spend coins he doesn't own in any case so balances are always safe.

I am looking at getting up to 1 Th/s going for Uno as soon BTC rises a decent bit so i get the contracts for less btc (hope they don't raise the prices then)

(hope it is ok i partly answered a question not directed at me Wink )
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November 30, 2014, 07:31:30 AM
 #4399

I am looking at getting up to 1 Th/s going for Uno as soon BTC rises a decent bit so i get the contracts for less btc (hope they don't raise the prices then)

I can always deposit USD into my Coinbase account immediately.

I *think* Genesis updates their exchange rate pretty well, based on a quick check I made.

So if today BTC is worth $300 US and tomorrow BTC is worth $600 US, does it really matter?  I instantaneously transfer $X from my US bank account to Coinbase, then immediately thereafter fund Genesis with it.  It should be the same cost in USD for me, whether I do that bank->Coinbase->Genesis deposit today (when BTC = $300) or tomorrow (when BTC=$600), no?

(Of course, if I had a bunch of BTC on hand I'd been hodling, I guess it would matter.  I just haven't been hodling any BTC at this point in time.)

PS.  I notice on their home page that their "Cyber Monday" discount starts in about 4 and a half hours.  For me, that's still extremely early Sunday morning.  They must be talking Hong Kong time, even though they seem to be mostly Germans and they're incorporated in Bermuda.  LOL!
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November 30, 2014, 07:42:09 AM
 #4400

@jelks
for me it's a bit harder purchasing btc since i do avoid the banking system alltogether. (I don't like banks and i don't trust them - i'm my own bank) So buying btc is a bit more hassle for me. I am currently more of a hodler because of that Wink
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