ㅤ

[o_e_l_e_o]

I don't know how more obvious I can make this. Valid canary updated last month:

The maintainer(s) and admins of the open source software project known as Samourai have received and complied with 0 (zero) requests for information of any kind by any third parties  including but not limited to government agencies.

[1714297977]

1714297977

[1714297977]

1714297977

[1714297977]

1714297977

[Kruw]

I don't know how more obvious I can make this. Valid canary updated last month:

The maintainer(s) and admins of the open source software project known as Samourai have received and complied with 0 (zero) requests for information of any kind by any third parties  including but not limited to government agencies.

You missed this part of the canary:

"We will renew this notice in 60 days time. If this notice fails to be renewed by then, you should assume the worst."

[o_e_l_e_o]

The current canary is valid and within 60 days.

I see taking you off ignore was a mistake. My bad.

It's been clear for some time now that Kruw is either incapable or unwilling to address the vast myriad of valid points made against Wasabi in this thread, and instead can only result to copious amounts of hand-waving and whataboutism. Furthermore, it's also clear that Kruw either does not understand how Whirlpool and JoinMarket work, or he does understand but deliberate lies about them to spread his narrative.

Either way, although I'll continue to point out to other users in this thread all the reasons they should avoid Wasabi, there is no point continuing to argue with Kruw.

[Kruw]

The current canary is valid and within 60 days.

I'm referring to when the canary was not updated within 60 days: https://twitter.com/FuegoDelMonte/status/1664723858274807811

Since the canary was not updated within 60 days, that means "you should assume the worst".

[Medusah]

I do not understand how this canary thing serves as evidence that they are not complying with requests from third parties.  Samurai team did not renew it 60 days after June 02, so what does that mean?

[Kruw]

I do not understand how this canary thing serves as evidence that they are not complying with requests from third parties.

Canaries are not meant to be evidence since they still require you to trust the issuer.  Canaries are used by the trusted issuer to signal they are under duress/coercion if the canary is breached or removed.

Samurai team did not renew it 60 days after June 02, so what does that mean?

According to the canary's instructions, you should "assume the worst".

[Medusah]

According to the canary's instructions, you should "assume the worst".

You do have a point to be honest.  If they are issuing canaries and do not renew them in time, that shows either that the canary is breached or that they are not responsible enough to handle the canary.

[Kruw]

Here's the WabiSabi "Coinjoin of the week": https://mempool.space/tx/eeee00f6c7a649a8cec28142d4249b2b09e6d2f8590125ae453caa1d42ced19f

What makes this one special?  It's not the biggest nor is it the most valuable... it has a transaction id that begins with 4 "e"s  

The most common denomination in the round was 0.01062882 BTC with 22 matching outputs.  There were no coordinator fees paid in this transaction since only 1m+ sat inputs pay fees, and all inputs over 1 million sats in this transaction are previous coinjoin outputs that remix for free.

[CreepyUncleJoe]

Is anyone still using Wasabi after the revelation of their collaboration with chain analytics companies? What is its liquidity, does it even have enough users to coinjoin with?

Has anyone had issues, has their Bitcoin been rejected or blocked by Wasabi, and does it even make sense to use it after everything that has happened?

[Kruw]

Is anyone still using Wasabi?

Yes, Wasabi's coinjoin protocols are the most popular by new volume (~3,000 BTC/month), remix volume (~70,000 BTC/month), and total unspent amount on chain (~10,000 BTC) - https://stats.wasabiwallet.io

[Kruw]

It's time for the WabiSabi "Coinjoin of the week" - https://mempool.space/tx/75cb8fb4d36f553e5d4c0e9d0aa80111a20f18b19635dd29384b55f19a0b8a30

This transaction has 32 matching outputs of 0.02097152 BTC.  There were no coordinator fees paid in this transaction since only 1m+ sat inputs pay fees, and all inputs over 1 million sats in this transaction are previous coinjoin outputs that remix for free.

[Wind_FURY]

It's time for the WabiSabi "Coinjoin of the week" - https://mempool.space/tx/75cb8fb4d36f553e5d4c0e9d0aa80111a20f18b19635dd29384b55f19a0b8a30

This transaction has 32 matching outputs of 0.02097152 BTC.  There were no coordinator fees paid in this transaction since only 1m+ sat inputs pay fees, and all inputs over 1 million sats in this transaction are previous coinjoin outputs that remix for free.

Kruw, a hypothetical question. If I send some UTXOs I received from a DarkNet user straight to zkSNACKS' coordinator, would the blockchain analysis company that you're working with flag and block those UTXOs with 100% accuracy, or are there false negatives going through in there? What's zkSNACKS' track record on detecting true positives?

[BlackHatCoiner]

He doesn't know.

[Wind_FURY]

He doesn't know.

💀

[Wind_FURY]

I have a shower thought about the current situation with coordinators/mixers that use the services of blockchain analysis companies.

Although my viewpoint has always been neutral and that it's merely about trade-offs, the implementation isn't as effective as users were made to believe. Because, how can we debate its effectiveness if blockchain analysis companies can just argue that any false negative that went through were merely caused by a more permissive "setting" that can always be adjusted to be more restrictive?

If we can't debate its effectiveness, how do we truly verify that it's effective?

[Kruw]

This coinjoin of the week highlights the importance of UTXO management in a high fee environment. Notice how this transaction has 25 fewer outputs than inputs -WabiSabi coinjoins consolidate your small inputs privately without revealing common ownership: https://mempool.space/tx/dcd5c7a57d926b8e5ac561f0cd357b60efb081d63ca3edb9465e574faebff030

[arabspaceship123]

It's unanswered so I'll put it here. If you didn't know before there's a possibility you know it now. What's your thought on this question Kruw?

This coinjoin of the week highlights the importance of UTXO management in a high fee environment. Notice how this transaction has 25 fewer outputs than inputs -WabiSabi coinjoins consolidate your small inputs privately without revealing common ownership: https://mempool.space/tx/dcd5c7a57d926b8e5ac561f0cd357b60efb081d63ca3edb9465e574faebff030

[Kruw]

If you didn't know before there's a possibility you know it now. What's your thought on this question Kruw?

I still don't know.

[arabspaceship123]

I can't say it with authoritativeness but looks like Wasabi's coinjoin's the biggest. They're receiving thousands bitcoins for coinjoins. zkSNACKS isn't shy posting attractive graphs it's part of their PR so they shouldn't avoid publishing data on accuracy if they're logging it. They've produced graphs about every other stat they've found to impress users so graphs depicting false negatives or true positives shouldn't hurt.

If you didn't know before there's a possibility you know it now. What's your thought on this question Kruw?

I still don't know.

[BoXXoB]

Spent a while reading this thread just now and I honestly can't believe I've used Wasabi. This is just absurd.

Kruw keeps yapping about open-source and bashing mixers while completely ignoring the fact that open-source doesn't help users a single bit if they are in bed with blockchain analysis companies. All that matters is that the UTXO's that participate in coinjoin's should remain private. Clearly we have no proof of that. On the contrary, we have reason to suspect that UTXO's don't remain private.

Risk that an UTXO that participates in a coinjoin falls into the hands of a blockchain analysis company makes their job of linking it to a coinjoin output (or a set of them) much easier because of timing. Could someone please correct me if I am wrong?