Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[DaRude]

Looks like this is not the first time around, CIA operation Red Sox, US sponsors Ukrainians who weren't just Nazis but did Nazis' "dirty work". And who's the head of said directly linked Nazi group OUN (Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists)? You guessed it, the "hero" Stepan Bandera.

Bandera was a Ukrainian nationalist, who fought against Soviets and against Nazis. Ended up imprisoned in the same concentration camp as Stalin's son IIRC. Allegedly for helping Jews, despite having anti-semitic views. Controversial figure. But that doesn't fit your narrative, does it? Black or white, putinist or nazi, no other options.

Oh he fought against Nazis, now did he? Care to site how many Nazis he killed, jews he helped (i'd love to read about that) to offset tens of thousand innocent people women and children he murdered, so you feel justified calling him "controversial" instead of straight out condemning this asshole? I'm guessing with such logic, you consider Hitler to be a controversial figure as well? I mean, he drew paintings and surely you can dig up some article of Hitler saving a kitten or a puppy or killing one Nazi at some point in his life before WW2? Are totenkopf, wolfsangle, blacksun, swastikas, and sieg heils are also just "controversial" articles for you, cause you know they were used before Nazi's?

Let's see what's Israelis stance on this point.

His group also was involved in the ethnic cleansing that killed tens of thousands of Poles in 1942-44. The Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists portrayed Russians, Poles, Hungarians and Jews — most of the minorities in western Ukraine — as aliens and encouraged locals to “destroy” Poles and Jews.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/kiev-renames-major-street-to-honor-russian-nazi-collaborator/

But that's back from 2015, i'm sure it has cleaned up since then right? From 2021 article:

Israel’s ambassador condemned the torchlight march Friday in Kyiv in memory of Stepan Bandera, issuing the strongest rebuke yet by an Israeli official of the event, which has grown in scope amid rising nationalism in Ukraine.

“We strongly condemn any glorification of collaborators with the Nazi regime. It is time for Ukraine to come to terms with its past,” Ambassador Joel Lion wrote on Twitter Saturday.
During World War II, Bandera led the Ukrainian Insurgent Army, whose men killed thousands of Jews and Poles, including women and children, while fighting alongside Nazi Germany against the Red Army and communists.

Expressions of admiration for Bandera and other collaborators have increased in scope and status following the 2014 revolution in Ukraine, which toppled the regime of Viktor Yanukovych amid claims that he is a Russian stooge, and triggered an armed conflict with Russia.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/hundreds-march-in-ukraine-in-annual-tribute-to-nazi-collaborator/

Hmm okay how about other experts on this, the Germans

BURGER (AA): Die Bundesregierung verurteilt und stellt sich gegen jede Form von Antisemitismus und gegen jede Glorifizierung der Verbrechen der Nazis. Ich kann Ihnen ergänzend sagen, dass wir natürlich auch die von der Organisation Ukrainischer Nationalisten teilweise unter Leitung Banderas begangenen Verbrechen insbesondere an Zivilisten verurteilen. Ein erheblicher Anteil ‑ das muss man im Kopf behalten ‑ dieser Verbrechen wurde in Kollaboration mit deutschen Besatzungstruppen begangen.

Google Translate
BURGER (AA): The federal government condemns and opposes any form of anti-Semitism and any glorification of Nazi crimes. I can also tell you that we of course also condemn the crimes committed by the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, in part under the leadership of Bandera, especially against civilians. A significant proportion - one must keep this in mind - of these crimes was committed in collaboration with German occupying forces.

https://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/de/newsroom/regierungspressekonferenz/2505386

I guess Germany and Israel don't know what you know, you should explain to them how this guy was "controversial". The guy literally killed 10.000 of innocent people, and you reluctance to call spade a spade is concerning. This really needs to be a litmus test, if you in any way support a guy that killed 10.000 of thousands  (uncontested) of innocent people you're a Nazi sympathizer or collaborator. He doesn't seem to be so controversial in Ukraine if government (presumably after lots of discussions) decided to name a street in a capital after this murderer.

Edit: If in your eyes Bandera is "controversial" care to provide an example of Nazi collaborators who you don't find to be controversial, or are you saying that all Nazi collaborators are somewhat controversial because they all can claim to be nationalists?  

Serious question, what are your thoughts on Stalin.  All this manufactured Nazi drama seems to be a distraction from the fact that when it comes to being responsible for human death and suffering, Hitler was a noob compared to Stalin.  And here we are watching Putin, the former KGB agent that never got over the collapse of the SU, make play after play directly from Stalins hand book.  

Not a fan of Stalin. Georgian' madman who indiscriminately killed his own people across all races/ethnicities (even his own Georgian republic suffered greatly "the exact number of Georgians executed during the Great Purges is not estimated, but some scholars suggest it varies from 30,000 to 60,000"). He did achieve his goal of rapidly industrializing USSR. I believe the argument largely comes from the cost/benefit analysis, where some people feel the loss of life is justified or couldn't be avoided under such circumstances. I tend to disagree and believe he went above and beyond on human suffering from what could be reasonably justified to industrialize USSR as quickly as possible. During the Soviet famine, percentage wise Kazakhs suffered the most 38 to 42 percent of all Kazakhs died from the famines during his rule. In absolute numbers including Russian famine of 1921–1922, the most died in Russia (~7mil). I surely wouldn't condone naming streets after him in 2016. Now any chance you could concede that the guy who did all the massacring and raping wasn't such a great guy and surely there must be other Ukrainian heroes who should get a street named after them?

Now what Hitler did was a genocide, he systematically exterminated six million Jews in concentration camps; and in gas chambers and gas vans in German extermination camps.

These numbers are only from the Holocaust (don't include deaths due to war):

Victims	Murdered
Jews	5.7 million
Soviet civilians	Approximately 6 million
Soviet POWs	2.8–3.3 million
Poles	1.8–3 million
Serbs	300,000–600,000
Disabled people	270,000
Romani	130,000–500,000
Freemasons	80,000–200,000
Slovenes	20,000–25,000
Homosexuals	5,000–15,000
Spanish Republicans	3,500
Jehovah's Witnesses	1,250–5,000

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_victims

World War II losses of the Soviet Union from all related causes were about 27,000,000 both civilian and military

Now I'm giving you a benefit of a doubt and I really hope your audacity to claim that "Hitler was a noob compared to Stalin" just comes from your illiteracy. If so not all is lost, but you should really educate yourself before posting nonsense, or parroting keywords you hear in the media.

So, not trying to make light of what Hitler did at all, but Stalin was in power much longer than Hitler, and between the Famines, Gulags, Korean War (turns out that was on him somehow), mass execution's, there are historians say he's responsible for over 40 million victims, including 20 million deaths.  (Victims including those that survived the Gulags, were driven from their homes, towns destroyed, etc)

He was willing to have anyone killed for pretty much any reason.

World War II losses of the Soviet Union from all related causes were about 27,000,000 both civilian and military

^^^Stalin gets credit for a lot of that

He deliberately starved 3-4 million Ukranians to death, sent a million that didn't die of starvation to work camps (where most died of starvation), and then hunted down hundreds of thousands that left Ukraine for other parts of the SU, as well as any of their relatives and executed them.

He ordered any troop that surrendered or captured to be considered a trader and sentenced to death if they ever returned.  And he followed through. When the British and Americans liberated German camps, the Russian prisoners begged them to let them stay.  No joke.  Every Soviet prisoner that was returned to the SU killed.  The Brits and Americans had to trick them to get on the trains, and were later investigated for war crimes for doing so.

There was the "Not One Step Backward" rule, the military was ordered to kill any soldier that retreated for any reason.  There were special Russian units that were positioned just behind the front line who's only job was to kill other Russian soldiers that looked like they might be thinking about retreating.  Almost 200,000 were killed this way.

As of 2019, in Russia Stalin hit a record approval rating of 51% in 2019.  

The way Putin controls the media and cracks down on dissent is straight out of Stalins play book.  Even the way Putin invaded Ukraine, by claiming to only be there to "liberate" Russian speakers, is crazy similar to how Stalin justified invading Poland, claiming he was there to "liberate Ukrainians", but later it was revealed he had made a secret deal with Hitler to divy up the land and not get in each others way.

I'm afraid to ask this, but if you attribute "a lot" of Soviet deaths in WW2 to Stalin, may I ask then how many WW2 Soviet deaths you attribute to Hitler? Because that's exactly what it sounds like you're doing, whitewashing what Hitler did to fit your narrative. Also, care to estimate on Soviet losses and the outcome of WW2 without the "Not One Step Backward" rule for the soldiers?

We can sit here and throw made up numbers all day long, but there's only one other nationalization of farmers property on grand scale that i can think of that could be comparable. And it's Great Leap Forward and let's just say Stalin was a saint comparing to Mao's implementation of nationalization of farmlands.

How can you even compare dictators indiscriminately sacrificing the lives of their own people in the name of industrialization/collective farming/etc... to intentional, targeted, systematic, genocide of whole ethnicities/races/nations in the name of ethnic cleansing, is beyond me. But on top of that claiming that Stalin was a noob to Hitler is just heinous (while at the same time trying to cover your ass by claiming that you're not trying to make light of what Hitler did, just makes it that much more despicable)

For your own good, you should really question the motives of the sources which lead you to forming such conclusions!

[af_newbie]

It scares me that you reached your pinnacle of cringe right on this topic. Person who yells WHATABOUTISM when i even slightly hint at a comparison (not a main rebuttal), blatantly doesn't answer a single direct question and just start discussing other people   surely the irony cannot be lost here

[...]

Osama bin Laden was also fighting Soviets before murdering innocent people (and was also sponsored by CIA), does that make him a controversial figure in your eyes as well? How about Osama bin Laden Avenue in Kyiv, it can run directly parallel to Stepana Bandery Avenue.

No, it's still you bringing in unrelated shit into this thread.

You brought up Bandera as one of the reasons Ukraine needs denazification (correct me if I'm wrong). I responded as to why that's absurd. If you can't make a coherent argument that's not really my fault.

The UPA's actions resulted in between 50,000 and 100,000 deaths...the killings were directly linked to the policies of Stepan Bandera's faction of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN-B) and its military arm

[...]

Controversial figure, right, something all of us could've done, just a silly mistake, perhaps wouldn't mind having an address on his street? this is beyond atrocious!

Not a fan of Stalin. Georgian' madman who indiscriminately killed his own people across all races/ethnicities (even his own Georgian republic suffered greatly "the exact number of Georgians executed during the Great Purges is not estimated, but some scholars suggest it varies from 30,000 to 60,000"). He did achieve his goal of rapidly industrializing USSR. I believe the argument largely comes from the cost/benefit analysis, where some people feel the loss of life is justified or couldn't be avoided under such circumstances. I tend to disagree and believe he went above and beyond on human suffering from what could be reasonably justified to industrialize USSR as quickly as possible. During the Soviet famine, percentage wise Kazakhs suffered the most 38 to 42 percent of all Kazakhs died from the famines during his rule. In absolute numbers including Russian famine of 1921–1922, the most died in Russia (~7mil). I surely wouldn't condone naming streets after him in 2016. Now any chance you could concede that the guy who did all the massacring and raping wasn't such a great guy and surely there must be other Ukrainian heroes who should get a street named after them?

But still Bandera streets in Ukraine - bad, Ukraine needs denazifying.

Stalin streets in Russia - nah, I just don't condone it.

Sometimes I feel like your reading comprehension is on a 6th grade level. Let's try once again, I brought up Bandera because I came across CIA's operation Red Sox where in 1949 CIA also tried to back Ukrainian independence by sponsoring Bandera, and CIA operations chief flat out admits that they were sponsoring a group directly linked to Nazi atrocities, even worse they did the Nazi's 'dirty work' (Bandera). Everyone seem to agree that this guy massacred/tortured/rapped lots of people, yet Ukrainians felt that he was the most deserving from all Ukrainians to name a street in his honor in the capital of Kyiv in 2016. Now this is where i get confused, you claim that there are only few Nazis in Ukraine but no more than in any other capital ok, so if you'd say that some idiot somehow managed to find some loophole and rename a street in the city after the murderer but once people found out there were protests etc but for one reason or the other they cannot change it to someone more deserving, i'd understand. But you don't say that at all, what scares me is your allusions, changing topic to other people, and reluctance to condemn Bandera makes it sound like that's wasn't an error at all, and most people do in fact support a guy who massacred innocent people. Am i mistaken? Is Bandera a hero to you?

Bandera is a Ukrainian national hero who fought for Ukrainian independence. He was against the Soviet invasion of Ukraine, a staunch anti-
communist, nationalist but not a Nazi.  He collaborated with the Germans, but later was arrested by them and imprisoned in the concentration
camp.

He was assassinated by the Russians.

You support Russians who committed and are committing genocides and war crimes. Who executed people in Katyn?
Santa Claus? Who killed innocent people across Europe during Soviet times?

Russians did. So shut the fuck up about your support for these animals.

[Branko]

Bandera is a Ukrainian national hero who fought for Ukrainian independence. He was against the Soviet invasion of Ukraine, a staunch anti-
communist, nationalist but not a Nazi.  He collaborated with the Germans, but later was arrested by them and imprisoned in the concentration
camp.

He was assassinated by the Russians.

You support Russians who committed and are committing genocides and war crimes. Who executed people in Katyn?
Santa Claus? Who killed innocent people across Europe during Soviet times?

Russians did. So shut the fuck up about your support for these animals.

I personally think Russians are most restrained people on earth...if Germans killed 25 million Americans, there would be
no Germans today, except maybe few kept in ZOO.

[paxmao]

combat lasers to fight drones

You watch too much Star Wars.

Russia tested a laser capable of burning drones in five seconds. 

Shhhh... told you not to say anything! Now all your soldiers will want one and you only got one!

The same solution has been tested by the US. The results are quite dissapointing: short range, dificult to aim, slow response to the threat... again, your Psychos will field a few unsuspecting and untrained soldiers from the eastern regions and the US and Ukraine will have free test dummies.

[suchmoon]

Now this is where i get confused, you claim that there are only few Nazis in Ukraine but no more than in any other capital ok, so if you'd say that some idiot somehow managed to find some loophole and rename a street in the city after the murderer but once people found out there were protests etc but for one reason or the other they cannot change it to someone more deserving, i'd understand. But you don't say that at all, what scares me is your allusions, changing topic to other people, and reluctance to condemn Bandera makes it sound like that's wasn't an error at all, and most people do in fact support a guy who massacred innocent people. Am i mistaken? Is Bandera a hero to you?

No, Bandera is not a hero to me, but he apparently is to some or many Ukrainians. I'm not Ukrainian. The rest of your diatribe is fallacies. Existence of a controversial street name is not indicative of any of the things you're accusing me or Ukrainians of. It's a ludicrous premise to build a "nazi" narrative on. There are no actual (neo-)nazis in the Ukrainian government as has been pointed out numerous times. There is no political influence or wide public support for nazi ideology. Being anti-Russian because Russian military is raping and killing its way through their country doesn't make Ukrainians nazis. etc.

[YADAYADA]

Bandera is a Ukrainian national hero who fought for Ukrainian independence. He was against the Soviet invasion of Ukraine, a staunch anti-
communist, nationalist but not a Nazi.

Many nationalists worship bandera in Ukraine today and yes he was a nazi collaborator and war criminal who murdered Jews and other ethnic minorities.


https://republicadomundo.blogspot.com/2014/06/os-crimes-de-stepan-bandera-heroi-dos.html



Stepan Bandera (center)

https://stiriinternationale.ro/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/stepan-bandera.jpg

"Other ethnic communities in Ukraine suffered as well. Bandera’s ‘kill order’ of 1941 urged Ukrainians to murder Jews, Poles, Hungarians, Russians and fellow Ukrainians, all described as ‘Muscovites’."
https://www.australianjewishnews.com/looking-back-on-ukrainian-crimes-in-horror/

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rjl9IThfEto/U5SW3o8jLrI/AAAAAAAACeM/t-B_NqnHPlk/s1600/8.jpg


 
Memorial plaque in Lviv in memory of Yuriy Polyansky says that he was geographer, but doesn’t say a single word that he was Nazi Burgermeister in Lviv with Jewish pogroms, murder of Polish intelligentsia, Yudenrat, Ukrainian

https://preview.redd.it/sm4gxf03p2851.jpg?width=482&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9812e990cd69b229d40d65ef1bee190293384c5b


Polyansky welcomes Hans Frank
https://preview.redd.it/0mv50mh5p2851.jpg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=006720e1402ef9dbec9f3df7a524a6fbaee9a02b

Ukrainian Parliament adopted a resolution to celebrate 120th anniversary of Volodymyr Kubiyovych, Nazi collaborator and founder of Ukrainian Waffen SS Division Galizia. Kubiyovych (1943)
https://preview.redd.it/rgfou4p9p2851.jpg?width=496&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=def66fd42f6104618841444f34889e87abc54c43


Memorial sign in honor of Ukrainian nationalist Mykhaylo Kolodzinsky. He wrote: «The anger of Ukrainians against Jews will especially be terrible. We should not calm down this anger, but to strengthen it. The more Jews will die during uprising, the better for Ukrainian state”
https://preview.redd.it/qzl8b30dp2851.jpg?width=535&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a62798826c2a933b76542599a98492a7f801ec8



Honorary citizen of town Dolyna Kazimir Yavorsky - Ukrainian nationalist, officer of Nazi Nachtigall Battalion and 201st Shutzmannshaft Battalion, took part in Lviv pogrom, mass murders of Jews and Poles as officer of UPA. Memorial cross in his honor
https://preview.redd.it/zynu7tvfp2851.jpg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8da256eab349d6af069893ee21ba8c93161acf7

Monument to Oleksa Gasin - Ukrainian nationalist and war criminal who heavily participated in the Jewish pogroms in Lviv and other places in West Ukraine. As top officer of Ukrainian Insurgent Army organizer and perpetrator of mass murder of many thousand innocent ethnic Poles
https://preview.redd.it/pkmoxhmip2851.jpg?width=596&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55552836fdb612037a6df5e8e21c142ab0f308da



A memorial plaque to organizers and perpetrators of the Jewish pogrom in July of 1941 in which 300 innocent Jews were brutally killed in Drogobych, Ukraine
https://preview.redd.it/xmxqkbwkp2851.jpg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19fd092e4c058170dac8e94597392490e2691636



A monument to Grygory Shklyanka, Nazi collaborator and a war criminal from Ukrainian Auxiliary Police Batallion. Shklyanka participated in the mass murder of Jews and later in mass killings of Poles as UPA officer. A street in his native village was renamed after him
https://preview.redd.it/t9puz6onp2851.jpg?width=576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3329043e8bc39d2059b9c90d8b06e2378ef70dde


Memorial plaque in honor of Nazi war criminal Stepan Burdyn - officer of Nazi Nachtigall batallion and 201st Schutzmannshaft Batallion where he participated in the mass murders of Jews in Holocaust and atrocities against civil polulation

https://preview.redd.it/co4ou3hqp2851.jpg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1af2ee8c93a8f0ac2bbf5bb7ccd24cb4f585143b



Monument to Ukrainian nationalist and Nazi collaborator Volodymyr Yakubovskiy - perpetrator of Jewish pogroms and mass murder of about 1 thousand innocent Jewish men, women and children in Zaloscie near Ternopol and murderer of many Poles later in UPA

 https://preview.redd.it/atymxmcyp2851.jpg?width=541&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfb4c9631e6879350e195b772da65b0b2aef532b


Stepan Bandera Footbal Club in Paris made up of Ukrainians living in France. Stepan Bandera - wartime leader of Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists that heavily participated in the Holocaust, perpetrator of the mass murder of more than 100,000 peaceful ethnic Poles in 1943-44

https://preview.redd.it/19a61953q2851.jpg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5fe3d489c628b52765986b56467f0fbf02ba4b7



Monument to murderers of Jews in Niemirów - members of Auxillary Police and UPA. On June 22, 1944 they were publicly hanged by Soviet Army for committing terrible crimes and mass murder of 2, 000 Jews. Now the same murderers are praised as fighters for Ukraine and victims of oppression
https://preview.redd.it/4h1kl857q2851.jpg?width=460&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d5f99921bc74c4a2c9492ef7a256ee596035948



Ukrainian nationalist march in July of 1941 before Nazis and local OUN leaders
https://preview.redd.it/ygjmm7gso2851.jpg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be9f26d97dfcb8a12440126b84c676ad80220a72


Mykola Lebed, the OUN’s Head of Security.  Lebed (Russian for “Swan”) had been convicted of Pieracki’s assassination in 1934.  This violent man was let out of jail when the Germans invaded Poland in 1939.  Lebed is considered directly responsible for the Volhynia Massacres of 1943, a planned genocide directed primarily against ethnic Poles and also secondarily against Jews.  As wiki notes:
The peak of the massacres took place in July and August 1943. Most of the victims were women and children.  UPA’s methods were particularly savage, and resulted in 35,000–60,000 Polish deaths in Volhynia and 25,000–40,000 in Eastern Galicia, for the total of between 76,000 and 106,000 casualties.

https://www.sott.net/image/s3/73771/full/wolyn.jpg

https://crimesofempire.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/vlcsnap-2015-04-26-18h37m46s63.png


Note: I cannot make the photos appear on the thread so if someone wishes to do this maybe requote the post.

[light_warrior]

Stepan Bandera (center)

Idiot. Either you are a Ruᛋᛋian propagandist or you are a stupid dumbass who believes the Russian bullshit media.

Anyone can go to Wikipedia and see that the photo is not of Bandera. He cannot be in this picture. Bandera never wore a German uniform. He spent almost the whole war in Sachsenhausen concentration camp. The Germans called him Stalin's agent.

The picture is of Reinhard Gehlen. So you don't have to try to put your Rashist fake in here. Come up with something new, asshole.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinhard_Gehlen

[af_newbie]

Bandera is a Ukrainian national hero who fought for Ukrainian independence. He was against the Soviet invasion of Ukraine, a staunch anti-
communist, nationalist but not a Nazi.

Many nationalists worship bandera in Ukraine today and yes he was a nazi collaborator and war criminal who murdered Jews and other ethnic minorities.


https://republicadomundo.blogspot.com/2014/06/os-crimes-de-stepan-bandera-heroi-dos.html



Stepan Bandera (center)



"Other ethnic communities in Ukraine suffered as well. Bandera’s ‘kill order’ of 1941 urged Ukrainians to murder Jews, Poles, Hungarians, Russians and fellow Ukrainians, all described as ‘Muscovites’."
https://www.australianjewishnews.com/looking-back-on-ukrainian-crimes-in-horror/

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rjl9IThfEto/U5SW3o8jLrI/AAAAAAAACeM/t-B_NqnHPlk/s1600/8.jpg


 
Memorial plaque in Lviv in memory of Yuriy Polyansky says that he was geographer, but doesn’t say a single word that he was Nazi Burgermeister in Lviv with Jewish pogroms, murder of Polish intelligentsia, Yudenrat, Ukrainian

https://preview.redd.it/sm4gxf03p2851.jpg?width=482&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9812e990cd69b229d40d65ef1bee190293384c5b


Polyansky welcomes Hans Frank
https://preview.redd.it/0mv50mh5p2851.jpg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=006720e1402ef9dbec9f3df7a524a6fbaee9a02b

Ukrainian Parliament adopted a resolution to celebrate 120th anniversary of Volodymyr Kubiyovych, Nazi collaborator and founder of Ukrainian Waffen SS Division Galizia. Kubiyovych (1943)
https://preview.redd.it/rgfou4p9p2851.jpg?width=496&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=def66fd42f6104618841444f34889e87abc54c43


Memorial sign in honor of Ukrainian nationalist Mykhaylo Kolodzinsky. He wrote: «The anger of Ukrainians against Jews will especially be terrible. We should not calm down this anger, but to strengthen it. The more Jews will die during uprising, the better for Ukrainian state”
https://preview.redd.it/qzl8b30dp2851.jpg?width=535&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a62798826c2a933b76542599a98492a7f801ec8



Honorary citizen of town Dolyna Kazimir Yavorsky - Ukrainian nationalist, officer of Nazi Nachtigall Battalion and 201st Shutzmannshaft Battalion, took part in Lviv pogrom, mass murders of Jews and Poles as officer of UPA. Memorial cross in his honor
https://preview.redd.it/zynu7tvfp2851.jpg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8da256eab349d6af069893ee21ba8c93161acf7

Monument to Oleksa Gasin - Ukrainian nationalist and war criminal who heavily participated in the Jewish pogroms in Lviv and other places in West Ukraine. As top officer of Ukrainian Insurgent Army organizer and perpetrator of mass murder of many thousand innocent ethnic Poles
https://preview.redd.it/pkmoxhmip2851.jpg?width=596&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55552836fdb612037a6df5e8e21c142ab0f308da



A memorial plaque to organizers and perpetrators of the Jewish pogrom in July of 1941 in which 300 innocent Jews were brutally killed in Drogobych, Ukraine
https://preview.redd.it/xmxqkbwkp2851.jpg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19fd092e4c058170dac8e94597392490e2691636



A monument to Grygory Shklyanka, Nazi collaborator and a war criminal from Ukrainian Auxiliary Police Batallion. Shklyanka participated in the mass murder of Jews and later in mass killings of Poles as UPA officer. A street in his native village was renamed after him
https://preview.redd.it/t9puz6onp2851.jpg?width=576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3329043e8bc39d2059b9c90d8b06e2378ef70dde


Memorial plaque in honor of Nazi war criminal Stepan Burdyn - officer of Nazi Nachtigall batallion and 201st Schutzmannshaft Batallion where he participated in the mass murders of Jews in Holocaust and atrocities against civil polulation

https://preview.redd.it/co4ou3hqp2851.jpg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1af2ee8c93a8f0ac2bbf5bb7ccd24cb4f585143b



Monument to Ukrainian nationalist and Nazi collaborator Volodymyr Yakubovskiy - perpetrator of Jewish pogroms and mass murder of about 1 thousand innocent Jewish men, women and children in Zaloscie near Ternopol and murderer of many Poles later in UPA

 https://preview.redd.it/atymxmcyp2851.jpg?width=541&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfb4c9631e6879350e195b772da65b0b2aef532b


Stepan Bandera Footbal Club in Paris made up of Ukrainians living in France. Stepan Bandera - wartime leader of Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists that heavily participated in the Holocaust, perpetrator of the mass murder of more than 100,000 peaceful ethnic Poles in 1943-44

https://preview.redd.it/19a61953q2851.jpg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5fe3d489c628b52765986b56467f0fbf02ba4b7



Monument to murderers of Jews in Niemirów - members of Auxillary Police and UPA. On June 22, 1944 they were publicly hanged by Soviet Army for committing terrible crimes and mass murder of 2, 000 Jews. Now the same murderers are praised as fighters for Ukraine and victims of oppression
https://preview.redd.it/4h1kl857q2851.jpg?width=460&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d5f99921bc74c4a2c9492ef7a256ee596035948



Ukrainian nationalist march in July of 1941 before Nazis and local OUN leaders
https://preview.redd.it/ygjmm7gso2851.jpg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be9f26d97dfcb8a12440126b84c676ad80220a72


Mykola Lebed, the OUN’s Head of Security.  Lebed (Russian for “Swan”) had been convicted of Pieracki’s assassination in 1934.  This violent man was let out of jail when the Germans invaded Poland in 1939.  Lebed is considered directly responsible for the Volhynia Massacres of 1943, a planned genocide directed primarily against ethnic Poles and also secondarily against Jews.  As wiki notes:
The peak of the massacres took place in July and August 1943. Most of the victims were women and children.  UPA’s methods were particularly savage, and resulted in 35,000–60,000 Polish deaths in Volhynia and 25,000–40,000 in Eastern Galicia, for the total of between 76,000 and 106,000 casualties.

https://www.sott.net/image/s3/73771/full/wolyn.jpg

https://crimesofempire.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/vlcsnap-2015-04-26-18h37m46s63.png


Note: I cannot make the photos appear on the thread so if someone wishes to do this maybe requote the post.

All this pales in comparison with what the Russians did to the whole of Eastern Europe during and after the second war.
Millions of civilians were KILLED, RAPED, and TORTURED by the Russians.

Never mind what Russians did in the past. It is far more important what they are doing NOW.

Unless you are a complete psychopath you cannot ignore the atrocities Russians are doing RIGHT NOW.

They are calling for genocide on their national TV and get applause from the audience.
86% of Russians are in favor of the complete annihilation of Ukrainian culture. They want them gone.

Everyday Russians/Serbs and unfortunately many others in 'civilized countries' are in support of this ethnic cleansing.

Truly unbelievable.

[Veleor]

There is no political influence or wide public support for nazi ideology.

In your opinion, Russophobia and calls for the extermination of Russians is not a kind of Nazi ideology?

Here are some examples of Russophobia in Ukraine.

1. Ukrainian schoolchildren shout in 2013 that Russians should be hanged - "Mocкaлякy нa гиллякy - xтo нe cкaчe тoй мocкaль!" By the way, their jumps with Nazi chants is very similar to the Austrians in 1938.
2. Kyiv youth shouting the Nazi anthem in 2016, calling for the killing of Russians.

Here is the text of this anthem in Ukrainian:

Code:

Жoвтo-блaкитнi нaшi пpaпopи
Mи нeпepeмoжнi, шaблi дoгopи
Бyдe Укpaїнa вiльнa, бyдe Heнькa caмocтiйнa
Гeй мocкaлiв нa нoжi, нa нoжi!

Бaтькo Пeтлюpa щe дo нac пpийдe
Biн зa Укpaїнy вcix нac пoвeдe
Бyдe Укpaїнa вiльнa, бyдe Heнькa caмocтiйнa
Гeй мocкaлiв нa нoжi, нa нoжi!

Hexaй Mocквa лeжить в pyїнax
A нaм нa цe нaчxaти
Зa нaми вcя вeликa Укpaїнa
I ми пpишли вecь cвiт зaвoювaти!

Cмepть, cмepть мocкaлям!
Cлaвa Укpaїнi! Гepoям cлaвa!
Cлaвa нaцiї! Cмepть вopoгaм!
Укpaїнa пoнaд yce!

3. A Ukrainian TV presenter quotes an SS officer and threatens to kill Russian children.
4. Ukrainian soldier says that the Russian nation must be destroyed.
5. The mayor of the Ukrainian city of Dnepropetrovsk Boris Filatov in April 2022 called for the killing of Russians around the world.
6. In Ukrainian Telegram chats they mock and insult the Soviet 18-year-old partisan, who was tortured and hanged by the German Nazis during the Second World War, and the monument in her honor is being demolished. You can read the information about this girl on Wikipedia.
7. Ukrainian textbooks say that the ancestors of the French, Portuguese, Spaniards, Turks and even Jews came from Ukrainian Galicia, that Ukrainians are almost the oldest nation, and Russians are not even Slavs, but Finno-Ugric peoples.

Being anti-Russian because Russian military is raping and killing its way through their country doesn't make Ukrainians nazis. etc.

About the rapes. There were many reports in Ukrainian news resources about the rapes of Ukrainian children by Russian soldiers (examples: 1, 2, 3).

However, on May 11, 2022, the Commissioner of the President of Ukraine for Children's Rights, Daria Gerasimchuk, stated other information:
01:08:44 BELSAT NEWS host: "There were reports in the press that children were victims of violence by the Russian occupiers. Do you have any data that could confirm this?"
01:08:56 Daria Gerasimchuk: "Today, the Prosecutor General's Office of Ukraine doesn't have a single confirmed fact of violence ... yet. Most likely, because people are not ready to report it. Therefore, the data to which everyone is now appealing, then, there were such cases, most likely.

That is, the Prosecutor General of Ukraine has no facts of such violence, but according to rumors have there been such cases? This is nonsense, because these are empty accusations of terrible crimes, not based on facts. Doesn't it seem strange to you that many people are ready to talk to journalists about inhuman cases of violence against themselves, but at the same time refuse to report to law enforcement agencies so that criminal cases can be opened? I may be wrong, but even if the victim refuses to testify, if there is evidence, the police still open a criminal case.

Who executed people in Katyn? Santa Claus? Who killed innocent people across Europe during Soviet times?
Russians did. So shut the fuck up about your support for these animals.

All this pales in comparison with what the Russians did to the whole of Eastern Europe during and after the second war.
Millions of civilians were KILLED, RAPED, and TORTURED by the Russians.

Perhaps you didn't know, but actually Russians and Ukrainians fought as part of the Soviet army against Germany and its allies.
Therefore, when you accuse the Russians of war crimes during the Second World War, you accuse the Ukrainians along with them.
Further. As you say, *the Russians* were guilty of all these crimes during the Second World War, then why did the allies of the USSR (the Americans, the British and the French) keep silent about that during the Nuremberg Trial? Do you think they covered up criminals? Then they are also to blame. Then why are you silent about their complicity?

They are calling for genocide on their national TV and get applause from the audience.
86% of Russians are in favor of the complete annihilation of Ukrainian culture. They want them gone.

It looks like fake. Provide a link to the source, please.

[coolcoinz]

The problem is not that Ukraine considers Bandera and Shushkevich national heroes,

Not really.
Just one of many articles that explain it.
Former Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko’s decision to confer the title of Hero of Ukraine on nationalist leader Stepan Bandera on Jan. 22 has unleashed a storm of outrage inside and outside Ukraine. Critics accuse Yushchenko of whitewashing a Nazi-era fascist and betraying the ideals of the Orange Revolution that brought him to power.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/stepan-bandera-hero-of-ukraine/

These people are considered heroes by a minority of Ukrainians. You can't blame the nation for what some people are doing. I'm pretty sure there's a minority that considers Stalin the best leader of Russia, just as there are groups of people who support genocide in Ukraine and tell their families to rape and plunder

[af_newbie]

There is no political influence or wide public support for nazi ideology.

In your opinion, Russophobia and calls for the extermination of Russians is not a kind of Nazi ideology?

Here are some examples of Russophobia in Ukraine.

1. Ukrainian schoolchildren shout in 2013 that Russians should be hanged - "Mocкaлякy нa гиллякy - xтo нe cкaчe тoй мocкaль!" By the way, their jumps with Nazi chants is very similar to the Austrians in 1938.
2. Kyiv youth shouting the Nazi anthem in 2016, calling for the killing of Russians.

Here is the text of this anthem in Ukrainian:

Code:

Жoвтo-блaкитнi нaшi пpaпopи
Mи нeпepeмoжнi, шaблi дoгopи
Бyдe Укpaїнa вiльнa, бyдe Heнькa caмocтiйнa
Гeй мocкaлiв нa нoжi, нa нoжi!

Бaтькo Пeтлюpa щe дo нac пpийдe
Biн зa Укpaїнy вcix нac пoвeдe
Бyдe Укpaїнa вiльнa, бyдe Heнькa caмocтiйнa
Гeй мocкaлiв нa нoжi, нa нoжi!

Hexaй Mocквa лeжить в pyїнax
A нaм нa цe нaчxaти
Зa нaми вcя вeликa Укpaїнa
I ми пpишли вecь cвiт зaвoювaти!

Cмepть, cмepть мocкaлям!
Cлaвa Укpaїнi! Гepoям cлaвa!
Cлaвa нaцiї! Cмepть вopoгaм!
Укpaїнa пoнaд yce!

3. A Ukrainian TV presenter quotes an SS officer and threatens to kill Russian children.
4. Ukrainian soldier says that the Russian nation must be destroyed.
5. The mayor of the Ukrainian city of Dnepropetrovsk Boris Filatov in April 2022 called for the killing of Russians around the world.
6. In Ukrainian Telegram chats they mock and insult the Soviet 18-year-old partisan, who was tortured and hanged by the German Nazis during the Second World War, and the monument in her honor is being demolished. You can read the information about this girl on Wikipedia.
7. Ukrainian textbooks say that the ancestors of the French, Portuguese, Spaniards, Turks and even Jews came from Ukrainian Galicia, that Ukrainians are almost the oldest nation, and Russians are not even Slavs, but Finno-Ugric peoples.

Being anti-Russian because Russian military is raping and killing its way through their country doesn't make Ukrainians nazis. etc.

About the rapes. There were many reports in Ukrainian news resources about the rapes of Ukrainian children by Russian soldiers (examples: 1, 2, 3).

However, on May 11, 2022, the Commissioner of the President of Ukraine for Children's Rights, Daria Gerasimchuk, stated other information:
01:08:44 BELSAT NEWS host: "There were reports in the press that children were victims of violence by the Russian occupiers. Do you have any data that could confirm this?"
01:08:56 Daria Gerasimchuk: "Today, the Prosecutor General's Office of Ukraine doesn't have a single confirmed fact of violence ... yet. Most likely, because people are not ready to report it. Therefore, the data to which everyone is now appealing, then, there were such cases, most likely.

That is, the Prosecutor General of Ukraine has no facts of such violence, but according to rumors have there been such cases? This is nonsense, because these are empty accusations of terrible crimes, not based on facts. Doesn't it seem strange to you that many people are ready to talk to journalists about inhuman cases of violence against themselves, but at the same time refuse to report to law enforcement agencies so that criminal cases can be opened? I may be wrong, but even if the victim refuses to testify, if there is evidence, the police still open a criminal case.

Who executed people in Katyn? Santa Claus? Who killed innocent people across Europe during Soviet times?
Russians did. So shut the fuck up about your support for these animals.

All this pales in comparison with what the Russians did to the whole of Eastern Europe during and after the second war.
Millions of civilians were KILLED, RAPED, and TORTURED by the Russians.

Perhaps you didn't know, but actually Russians and Ukrainians fought as part of the Soviet army against Germany and its allies.
Therefore, when you accuse the Russians of war crimes during the Second World War, you accuse the Ukrainians along with them.
Further. As you say, *the Russians* were guilty of all these crimes during the Second World War, then why did the allies of the USSR (the Americans, the British and the French) keep silent about that during the Nuremberg Trial? Do you think they covered up criminals? Then they are also to blame. Then why are you silent about their complicity?

They are calling for genocide on their national TV and get applause from the audience.
86% of Russians are in favor of the complete annihilation of Ukrainian culture. They want them gone.

It looks like fake. Provide a link to the source, please.

You either do not know or are completely ignorant of how the Russian (Soviet) system of government works.

Who the fuck do you think you are? My family lived through Russian Mir in multiple countries.
Do you think I do not know who served under the Red Army?

Perhaps you do not know what the Red Army did in WWII?

Perhaps you do not know what the Russians did to Baltic countries, Poland, Belarus, and Ukraine during the Russian Empire and the Soviet
times.

Perhaps you do not know what Russians did in the occupied USSR republics and the Warsaw 'pact' countries?

Talk to people who lived through this before you open your mouth and start defending Russians.

Russians are the scum of the Earth, everywhere they go they bring death, violence, and misery.

[suchmoon]

Here are some examples of Russophobia in Ukraine.

Your loaded question on "rusophobia" aside, "examples of" is not equal to a widespread adoption of nazi ideology. Nazi/fascist elements can be found in any society that has a certain degree of freedom of speech. Only a few countries - Russia is among them, Ukraine is not - have adopted fascism as a policy. I'm not going to bring the garbage from Russian state media or pro-Putin telegram channels here, I'm quite sure you know what I'm talking about but you choose to ignore it like the fires and flooding in Mariupol and pretty much every fact that doesn't support Putin's propaganda.

About the rapes. There were many reports in Ukrainian news resources about the rapes of Ukrainian children by Russian soldiers (examples: 1, 2, 3).

However, on May 11, 2022, the Commissioner of the President of Ukraine for Children's Rights, Daria Gerasimchuk, stated other information:
01:08:44 BELSAT NEWS host: "There were reports in the press that children were victims of violence by the Russian occupiers. Do you have any data that could confirm this?"
01:08:56 Daria Gerasimchuk: "Today, the Prosecutor General's Office of Ukraine doesn't have a single confirmed fact of violence ... yet. Most likely, because people are not ready to report it. Therefore, the data to which everyone is now appealing, then, there were such cases, most likely.

That is, the Prosecutor General of Ukraine has no facts of such violence, but according to rumors have there been such cases? This is nonsense, because these are empty accusations of terrible crimes, not based on facts. Doesn't it seem strange to you that many people are ready to talk to journalists about inhuman cases of violence against themselves, but at the same time refuse to report to law enforcement agencies so that criminal cases can be opened? I may be wrong, but even if the victim refuses to testify, if there is evidence, the police still open a criminal case.

Nonsense sounds like a correct description of what you're doing here. Again, going out of your way to find some minor, possibly out-of-context, tangential detail and ignoring actual facts.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/25/evidence-ukraine-women-raped-before-being-killed-say-doctors-russia-war

Following the withdrawal of Russian troops from towns and suburbs around the capital, dozens of women have told police, the media and human rights organisations about atrocities they say they suffered suffered at the hands of Russian soldiers. Investigators have heard testimony of gang-rapes, assaults taking place at gunpoint and rapes committed in front of children.

Ukraine’s human rights commissioner, Lyudmila Denisova, has officially documented the cases of 25 women who were kept in a basement and systematically raped in Bucha, a town north of Kyiv now synonymous with Russian war crimes. Authorities have warned those cases could be the tip of the iceberg and accused Russian troops of using rape as an instrument of war.

[...]

Tkalenko said women were reluctant to file police reports about acts of sexual violence because they believed the perpetrators would not be caught. Instead, they were contacting psychologists and doctors for help.

https://ssu.gov.ua/en/novyny/sbu-vstanovyla-vzhe-1140-rosiiskykh-zaharbnykiv-yaki-chynyly-zvirstva-proty-myrnoho-naselennia-na-kyivshchyni

One of those occupiers who raped Ukrainian women is in the photo. This is Bulat Lenarovych FASSAKHOV, born on November 20, 2001.

Under the supervision of Kyiv Region Prosecutor’s Office, the SSU has notified him, in absentia, of suspicion of violating laws and customs of war.

He is a native of the Republic of Tatarstan, russia, and serves in the 30th separate motorized rifle brigade of the 2nd guards combined army of the central military district of russia.

The SSU established that during the temporary occupation of one of the towns in Kyiv region this individual committed a number of war crimes against civilian population. Witnesses have identified him and confirmed the facts of crimes committed by him.

The criminal broke into a house of a Ukrainian family, locked them in the basement except for a young girl. Threatening to kill the whole family, the occupier raped the girl and later repeated the crime along with three accomplices.

[TwitchySeal]

Many nationalists worship bandera in Ukraine today and yes he was a nazi collaborator and war criminal who murdered Jews and other ethnic minorities.

Many nationalists worship Stalin (arguably more evil than Hitler) in Russia today and yes he was a nazi collaborator and war criminal who murdered Jews and other ethnic minorities. 

Stalin More Popular Than Putin in Russia These Days
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2019-05-09/stalin-is-more-popular-than-ever-in-russia-survey-shows

(from 2019)

But so what.  That wouldn't justify any country attempt to stop Russia from existing as a country.

[be.open]

According to yet unconfirmed reports, Svyatoslav Palamar (callsign Kalina) also surrendered.

Nope, he didn't surrender, he is still in Azovstal and made short video:
https://t.me/uniannet/55727

Rumor has it that this video was pre-recorded. It seems that the story of Azov has ended ingloriously, there is information from the Russian military correspondent that today Denis Prokopenko (call sign Radis) and his assistant Volyna surrendered. The biggest bewilderment of military correspondents is that the Azov people are captured quite vigorous, fresh and neatly trimmed, with bags of provisions. And that there are much more prisoners than the DPR fighters who received them and blocked them at Azovstal.

ps Musical pause.

[TwitchySeal]

Rumor has it

Rumor has it Russia is facing the possibility of losing Crimea.


Russia Could Actually Lose Territory Amid Ukraine War Disaster
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-kyiv-crimea-putin-zelensky-donbas-1708149

[paxmao]

Again, all this is good for short distance. UKR is now getting proper siege artillery, the modern ones that are accurate, fast firing and come with a range of ammo for various situations. We have already seen footage and my guess is we are going to see much more.

You are great for not losing heart. Meanwhile, 700 people left Azovstal during the day, and the total number of those who surrendered exceeded 900 people. I think the next tactical boiler will be near Avdeevka or near Lisichansk-Severodonetsk. Here and there, under the threat of encirclement of the APU grouping of about 15,000 soldiers, with Zelensky's order to stand to the death.

Loosing heart? The morale and conviction of Ukraine is 100x the Russ. It has taken your glorious Psychos in Chief months to defeat a regiment even under continuous shelling and siege. Is that how you intent to play this war?

Why not?

Because you cannot afford it.

Rumor has it

Rumor has it Russia is facing the possibility of losing Crimea.


Russia Could Actually Lose Territory Amid Ukraine War Disaster
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-kyiv-crimea-putin-zelensky-donbas-1708149

It is not out of question certainly. I am not sure about a full loss of al the occupied territory, but there is a decent chance of them loosing it partially at least. Crimea is heavily defended but the Russ have shown their incapability to take Mykolayv and may be forced to retreat further. A few of the chief psychos have been shown the door by Putin, that is certainly a sign of how it goes. I never heard of generals dismissed when they win in modern times.

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-fires-2-generals-for-ukraine-failures-uk-claims-2022-5?r=US&IR=T

The UK update said that Lieutenant General Serhiy Kisel, who commanded the elite 1st Guards Tank Army, was suspended for his failure to capture Kharkiv.

It also said that Vice Admiral Igor Osipov, who commanded Russia's Black Sea Fleet, was fired for the sinking of the cruiser Moskva in April.

[TwitchySeal]

Secretly forcing your citizens to fight a war has it's consequences. 

Unknown Russian perpetrators conducted a series of Molotov cocktail attacks on Russian military commissariats throughout the country in May, likely in protest of covert mobilization. Russian media and local Telegram channels reported deliberate acts of arson against military commissariats in three Moscow Oblast settlements—Omsk, Volgograd, Ryazan Oblast, and Khanty-Mansi Autonomous District—between May 4 and May 18.[5] Ukrainian General Staff Main Operations Deputy Chief Oleksiy Gromov said that there were at least 12 cases of deliberate arson against military commissariats in total and five last week.[6] Russian officials caught two 16-year-olds in the act in one Moscow Oblast settlement, which suggests that Russian citizens are likely responsible for the attacks on military commissariats.

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-19

[suchmoon]

Russian citizens are likely responsible for the attacks on military commissariats

Hopefully they get a bit smarter in picking out the buildings without surveillance, disguising themselves, and prepping/testing the incendiary devices. If they get caught they face serious criminal charges all the way up to terrorism.

Not sure if this is spontaneous or somehow organized, but it defies the typical excuses that nothing can be done in protest against Putin's regime. Apparently some things can be done and are being done.

[TwitchySeal]

Not sure if this is spontaneous or somehow organized, but it defies the typical excuses that nothing can be done in protest against Putin's regime. Apparently some things can be done and are being done.

Silver lining to dictator cracking down on dissent is the creative ways to protest.

Like switching price tags in the grocery store, or hacking the TV guide:

[tvbcof]

Gas for rubles...oil for rubles...wheat for rubles...

I think I'm seeing a pattern here.  Wonder how a guy could get a hold of some rubles?  Oh hey, I know!

  https://currency.com/btc-to-rub

Wow, in looking at that chart it's showing pretty good performance for the big RUB over the last month!  Maybe because the last of the Rooskies has not quite yet been chased back across the border even though that event was just days away several months ago according to official Ukrainian sources.