Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[paxmao]

I always say that information provided by the enemy tends to be dis-information. However, this is Prigozhin going public against the main Chief Psychos of the RF army and openly criticizing the tactics and pretty much everything else. For any ordinary citizen this would mean a long sentence, as this may equate to a critic to Putin's arrangements or pretty much conceding that he cannot take care of the army.

https://youtu.be/gMLqaxHlQ68?t=83

Anything about a retreat or ammunition etc... means little, but how he speak of the RF regulars... there is a lot in there.

[tvbcof]

A little follow-up on the big mushrooms which have been popping up in Zio-Nazi Central (aka, Galicia).

Some are saying it is (or was) this facility:  Looks like this one is (or was) pretty well guarded:

  https://goo.gl/maps/AghZHj2dkkHP6ZBP7

Some are saying that there may have been a radioactive component to some of the work going on at some of the facilities.  If so, I'm sure it was totally peaceful and just a tireless toil to safely decommission the arms which the Soviets left them with.  No covert nuclear material trading in ultra-non-corrupt Ukraine or anything like that.  Decommisioning ICBMs is a  long long process...which is handy for people who fancy making dirty bombs in their utter desperation.

Some say that it may have been a storage point the depleted uranium the Brits are sending them.  This would be interesting.  I would not really expect the kinds of aerosolization that the alloys would undergo in battlefield use, but possibly some degree of shattering.  Either one would probably not be a value-add to the food products coming off those fields in future years, but the fallout would tend to be more geographically limited with larger particle sizes.

Of course I checked the winds.  Looks like the fallout would head generally West at slow speed for a while, then accelerate (higher winds) and hook up to the North then back in a Easterly direction.  In short, right over Southern Poland.  Some chances of precipitation along the whole route which is hugely important when figuring out fallouts.  In short, if the Russians did pop this thing and it is (arguable) toxic and/or radioactive in some way, they could hardly have picked better weather.  Better if it fell back on Britain, but the Poles and Brits can work that one out.  There will hopefully be a point in the future when the Brits get what's coming to them for sending toxic munitions which the Russians themselves dis-continued decades ago out of contamination concerns.  We'll just have to see if the Brits keep a stiff upper lip if/when the chickens come home to roost.

[Branko]

A little follow-up on the big mushrooms which have been popping up in Zio-Nazi Central (aka, Galicia).

Some are saying it is (or was) this facility:  Looks like this one is (or was) pretty well guarded:

  https://goo.gl/maps/AghZHj2dkkHP6ZBP7

Some are saying that there may have been a radioactive component to some of the work going on at some of the facilities.  If so, I'm sure it was totally peaceful and just a tireless toil to safely decommission the arms which the Soviets left them with.  No covert nuclear material trading in ultra-non-corrupt Ukraine or anything like that.  Decommisioning ICBMs is a  long long process...which is handy for people who fancy making dirty bombs in their utter desperation.

Some say that it may have been a storage point the depleted uranium the Brits are sending them.  This would be interesting.  I would not really expect the kinds of aerosolization that the alloys would undergo in battlefield use, but possibly some degree of shattering.  Either one would probably not be a value-add to the food products coming off those fields in future years, but the fallout would tend to be more geographically limited with larger particle sizes.

Of course I checked the winds.  Looks like the fallout would head generally West at slow speed for a while, then accelerate (higher winds) and hook up to the North then back in a Easterly direction.  In short, right over Southern Poland.  Some chances of precipitation along the whole route which is hugely important when figuring out fallouts.  In short, if the Russians did pop this thing and it is (arguable) toxic and/or radioactive in some way, they could hardly have picked better weather.  Better if it fell back on Britain, but the Poles and Brits can work that one out.  There will hopefully be a point in the future when the Brits get what's coming to them for sending toxic munitions which the Russians themselves dis-continued decades ago out of contamination concerns.  We'll just have to see if the Brits keep a stiff upper lip if/when the chickens come home to roost.

Kim Dotcom comment about that

https://twitter.com/KimDotcom/status/1657762895911088128

[TwitchySeal]

https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1657643236989517825

[paxmao]

Gamma radiation had a significant increase in Termopil after the RF attacks to "ammo depots" yesterday. The causes of this increase in radiation is yes to be determined, but it is not good news certainly.

Meanwhile the so "greatly well armed and structured" RF army is sustaining a number "glorious strategic withdrawal from non-strategic positions" along the front. Not all news are good for Ukraine, but there are certainly quite a few good news (in the military sense, killing people is not good news ever). Ukraine hit a military training facility as deep as Luhansk with what I am guessing is one of the newer Storm Shadow missiles recently sent by the UK.

Quite a beast of a weapon.

The missile weighs about 1,300 kilograms (2,900 lb), with a conventional warhead of 450 kilograms (990 lb). It has a maximum body diameter of 48 centimetres (19 in) and a wingspan of three metres (120 in). It is propelled at Mach 0.8 by a Microturbo TRI 60-30 turbojet engine and has range of approximately 560 km (300 nmi; 350 mi).[8]

The weapon can be launched from a number of different aircraft—the Saab Gripen, Dassault Mirage 2000, Dassault Rafale and the Panavia Tornado, both the Italian Tornado IDS and formerly the British Tornado GR4 (now retired).[14] Storm Shadow was integrated with the Eurofighter Typhoon as part of the Phase 2 Enhancement (P2E) in 2015,[15][16] but will not be fitted to the F-35 Lightning II.[17]

The Storm Shadow's BROACH warhead features an initial penetrating charge to clear soil or enter a bunker, then a variable delay fuze to control detonation of the main warhead. Intended targets are command, control and communications centres; airfields; ports and power stations; ammunition management and storage facilities; surface ships and submarines in port; bridges and other high value strategic targets.[14]

The missile is fire and forget, programmed before launch. Once launched, it cannot be controlled or commanded to self-destroy and its target information cannot be changed. Mission planners program the weapon with details of the target and its air-defences. The missile follows a path semi-autonomously, on a low flight path guided by GPS and terrain mapping to the target area.[18] Close to the target, the missile climbs and then dives into the target.[19]

[BADecker]

Where do things really stand? If Switzerland and other countries send Russian, sanctioned assets to Ukraine, what will it mean for the war? As it stands, Switzerland needs to be on the side of the US. But they risk retaliation from Russia if they act too much in favor of Ukraine.


Ukraine Can't Have Russian Assets Frozen in Switzerland, Bern Says


https://www.lewrockwell.com/2023/05/no_author/ukraine-cant-have-russian-assets-frozen-in-switzerland-bern-says/
Switzerland will not allow assets belonging to the Russian Central Bank held in Swiss banks to be used for "Ukrainian reconstruction," a spokesperson for the nation's State Secretariat for Economic Affairs (SECO) has said.

"The answer is no," the spokesperson told Russian media on Friday when asked whether Bern would entertain transferring Russian assets to Kiev.

"Your statement is a misinterpretation of [a government] press release dated May 10. The release notes only that 'in the EU there are ongoing discussions on whether assets of the Russian Central Bank should be invested and the proceeds used for the reconstruction of Ukraine,' and that 'Switzerland is following these discussions closely,'" the spokesperson said.

SECO announced Wednesday that about 7.4 billion Swiss francs ($8.23 billion) worth of Russian Central Bank assets are trapped in Swiss banks. Transactions related to the management of these assets were "immobilized" in February 2022 after Russia kicked off its special military operation.

Swiss authorities reported on the size of the Russian reserves stuck in its banks in accordance with a new reporting obligation introduced in late March.
...

[TwitchySeal]

Where do things really stand?

Seems like momentum has swung back in Ukraines favor.

Russian media reported that two Russian Mi-8 helicopters, a Su-34 bomber, and an Su-35 fighter crashed in Bryansk Oblast on May 13, which some Russian sources claimed was caused by Ukrainian air defenses. Geolocated footage shows the aftermath of crashes near Surestskii Muravei and Klintsy, about 50km from the Ukrainian border.[11] Russian milbloggers speculated that all four aircraft crashed as the result of a coordinated Ukrainian strike using air defense systems pulled to the border area of Chernihiv Oblast.[12] The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) has not yet responded to the incident at the time of publication. Ukrainian officials have similarly refrained from commenting on the incidents. However, several Russian milbloggers seized on the incident to criticize aspects of how the Russian aerospace forces conduct air operations and to accuse the leadership responsible for these aircraft of gross negligence and incompetence. Milbloggers warned about Ukrainian capabilities and called for harsh retaliation against Ukraine. Some milbloggers questioned why the two Mi-8 helicopters were flying so close to the border in the first place and called for aerospace commanders to take better steps to move such assets further into the rear.[13] Moscow Duma Deputy Andrey Medvedev warned that Ukrainian counteroffensive actions will not manifest only in mechanized warfare, suggesting that Russian authorities should prepare for further strikes on such aviation assets as part of a wider Ukrainian counteroffensive strategy.[14] Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) Deputy Information Minister Daniil Bezsonov accused the Russian aerospace command of “tyranny” and “fraud.”[15]

Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian forces struck rear Russian areas in Luhansk Oblast with British Storm Shadow cruise missiles on May 12 and 13, prompting heightened Russian anxiety about potential Ukrainian abilities to target Russian logistics. The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) claimed on May 13 that Ukrainian aircraft struck industrial facilities in occupied Luhansk City with a Storm Shadow cruise missile on May 12.[16] Geolocated footage published on May 13 shows the aftermath of Ukrainian strikes on Yuvileyne (7km west of Luhansk City) on May 13, and Russian sources widely claimed that Ukrainian forces also used Storm Shadow cruise missiles in the subsequent strike.[17] A Russian milblogger claimed that a Storm Shadow cruise missile would have caused more damage, however, and the Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) Internal Ministry claimed that Ukrainian forces used “Hrim-2” missiles to conduct the May 12 strike.[18] United Kingdom Defense Secretary Ben Wallace confirmed on May 12 that the UK is supplying Ukraine with the missiles but did not specify when or even if Ukraine received them.[19] ISW has not observed visual confirmation that Ukrainian forces have used Storm Shadow cruise missiles to strike Russian positions in Ukraine. Russian milbloggers claimed that the strike illustrates that Ukrainian forces may be able to target airfields and rear deployment and logistics centers in areas previously considered to be completely safe.[20] A prominent Russian milblogger compared the alleged use of the cruise missiles to the summer of 2022 when Ukrainian forces began using HIMARS rockets to target Russian logistics in Kherson Oblast and argued that the Russian information space is similarly attempting to downplay the impact that such systems may have.[21]

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-13-2023

Ukrainian forces continued counterattacking around Bakhmut on May 14. Ukrainian Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Malyar reported that Ukrainian forces captured over 10 Russian positions on the northern and southern outskirts of Bakhmut over the course of the day on May 14.[10] Russian milbloggers claimed that Ukrainian troops attacked towards Berkhivka, Klishchiivka, and Kurdiumivka and took up new unspecified positions near the settlements and additionally advanced towards Yahidne from the direction of Bohdanivka.[11] Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin claimed that Ukrainian forces did not conduct any attacks on the night of May 13 to 14, however.[12] ISW has not observed visual confirmation of new Ukrainian positions around Bakhmut. Ukrainian Eastern Group of Forces Spokesperson Colonel Serhiy Cherevaty emphasized on May 14 that Ukraine’s main goal in Bakhmut is to destroy Russian concentration areas and encircle the city, not to conduct frontal assaults.[13] Cherevaty noted that Ukrainian forces have recently advanced up to 300m in some areas, and Malyar reported that Ukrainian forces are advancing in two directions in the suburbs of Bakhmut.[14]  

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-14-2023

[tvbcof]

Where do things really stand?

Seems like momentum has swung back in Ukraines favor.
...
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-14-2023

1)
The operation resulting in the loss of two aircraft and two helicopters (which Ukraine itself probably had little to do with) was indeed a win, but at the end of the day, it was one mission.  The failure modes from the Russian side are reasonably easy to understand and adapt to.

2)
The medium range cruise missiles supplied by Britain (and probably launched by their personnel) are really nothing special.  It's war, and shit happens.  The Russians will have to be more careful in their operations due to the new threat.  That will be a drag and will impact operational efficiency, but it will make little overall difference to the outcome.

The big threat here is that will induce other nations to follow suite with supplies of similar weapons systems which seems to be one of the design goals.  We'll see how many of the minor countries decide to go all-in with Britain and the WEF, and which ones are (wisely) starting to get cold feet as the gaze into the likely future of this conflict and beyond.  More and more their citizens are starting to do exactly this even as their WEF-supplied cabinet level bureaucrats comply with the wishes of their masters.

3)
The Bakhmut thing is turning into yet another embarrassing disaster for Ukraine.  With great losses they have mostly just managed to re-take some of the recently Russian-won terrain on the flanks in the general area.  Ukraine's actions have not even halted Wagner's mop-up of the last blocks of the city as of today.

  https://www.bitchute.com/video/GPSbut22ufMY/

[TwitchySeal]

The Bakhmut thing is turning into yet another embarrassing disaster for Ukraine.  

It's a diaster for both sides.

There's nothing embarrassing about defending your own territory.

Imagine invading someone else's, fighting for two years only to lose twice as many lives and ultimately fail at taking the city.  


That would be embarrassing. And save the "oh no that was Russia's plan the whole time." You aren't that dumb.

[tvbcof]

The Bakhmut thing is turning into yet another embarrassing disaster for Ukraine.  

...
There's nothing embarrassing about defending your own territory.

The Ukroids should go back across the border.  They are fighting mainly on territory where the people already voted to join the RF.  The people have spoken.  Looks like coke-head-in-chief has now canceled further Ukrainian election until further notice.  Gee, I wonder why.

If they were smart the Ukroids would have long ago made some good defensive lines in territories that Russia doesn't care about and crossed their fingers that the cost would be to high for Russia to take them militarily and that they could keep a bit more of a rump state when this thing is wrapped up.  But they are not.  Oh well.

 

Imagine invading someone else's, fighting for two years only to lose twice as many lives and ultimately fail at taking the city.  

That would be embarrassing. And save the "oh no that was Russia's plan the whole time." You aren't that dumb.

Hard to know why you didn't put a link to the clown-shoe 'data' you generated.  http://my.ass/laughable_western_propaganda.pdf ?

Ukraine losses are likely over 300,000 KIA with a positive 2nd derivative lately due to the feeble 'greatest counter-offensive'.  The killed ratio is probably around 10/1 in Russia's favor (which is what happens when you can lob shells and 1500 kg bombs on an enemy from safe-ish rear area zones AND the leaders of the losing side want 'their people' to disappear and stop being a drag on the country's technocratic future.

One of the reasons why the Ukroids lie about casualties to such a ridiculous degree is that the management can grift more money out of the U.S. as wages for dead people and pocket the money the families would get when their males get killed by keeping the deaths secret.  Even more profitable when the missing in action are also missing organs, teeth, and other body parts.  As I read, Ukraine did some significant 'liberalization' to the laws around organ donations just in time before kicking off the current conflict with Russia.  How convenient.  Fuckin ghouls.

[be.open]

Where do things really stand?

Seems like momentum has swung back in Ukraines favor.

Has the counteroffensive already begun?

It seems that Prigozhin, with his hyperactivity in the information field, did everything to make the Ukrainian General Staff believe in deep disagreements between Wagner and the Russian Ministry of Defense and made the neighborhood of Bakhmut the direction of the main attack.

Gamma radiation had a significant increase in Termopil after the RF attacks to "ammo depots" yesterday. The causes of this increase in radiation is yes to be determined, but it is not good news certainly.

It seems that it was not the smartest idea for the UK to transfer depleted uranium shells to Ukraine. Another billion dollars in NATO arms deliveries are being crossed out.

[swogerino]

So my "Russian friends" what will you do now that all 6 Kinzhal "unstoppable" hypersonic missiles were all shot down in the latest attack in Kyiv during last night?It looks like your paranoia is at the highest levels attacking civilians with hypersonic missiles committing war crimes in pure "sun light" as everybody can see the videos of such horrendous war crimes.Even France who was neutral now is clearly engaging in helping Ukraine and the fact that the Patriot air defense system shot down all Kinzhal missiles says a lot about how the war is going for the Russian side.

[paxmao]

...

Ukraine losses are likely over 300,000 KIA with a positive 2nd derivative lately due to the feeble 'greatest counter-offensive'.  The killed ratio is probably around 10/1 in Russia's favor (which is what happens when you can lob shells and 1500 kg bombs on an enemy from safe-ish rear area zones AND the leaders of the losing side want 'their people' to disappear and stop being a drag on the country's technocratic future.

One of the reasons why the Ukroids lie about casualties to such a ridiculous degree is that the management can grift more money out of the U.S. as wages for dead people and pocket the money the families would get when their males get killed by keeping the deaths secret.  Even more profitable when the missing in action are also missing organs, teeth, and other body parts.  As I read, Ukraine did some significant 'liberalization' to the laws around organ donations just in time before kicking off the current conflict with Russia.  How convenient.  Fuckin ghouls.

This is false information. The people have not had a say on anything that is happening. A fake referendum under military occupation has zero value and is an insult to anyone's intelligence.

Regarding KIA from RF, the best evidence of the losses is the forcibly recruitment of RF citizens, firstly by enlisting reservists which are mostly unready for a war, and after a million escaped the country, creating a law by which anyone would end up in jail if they would rather not go to Ukraine to kill without any reason and mostly to die for Putin for no reason - these later have zero chance of survival and run at the sight of an Ukrainian soldier (not to mention of a Bradley).

And while you dis-inform (or try to), the Storm Shadow is hitting far behind any line again, and again, and again... I guess the RF army must be thinking how to deal with an invisible enemy that carries a 1 ton warhead. The best they could figure out for now: try to hit Kyiv, where troops are not trained, tanks are not repaired and weapons are not stored.

And there is plenty coming.

The supply of the missiles to Ukraine was confirmed by the UK government - which holds an estimated 700-1,000 Storm Shadows - in May 2023.

Oh.. forgot, you need links https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12085895/Russia-war-Storm-Shadow-missiles-capable-cost.html


BTW, you and you friend Be.open seem to consider the Germans as a good source of advice. They however do not seem to share you views about money:

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/5/14/germany-to-give-2-95bn-military-aid-to-kyiv-zelenskyy-in-berlin#:~:text=The%20new%20military%20aid%20package,and%20other%20air%20defence%20equipment.

Germany pledges almost $3bn in new military aid to Ukraine
New military aid includes 30 Leopard 1 A5 tanks, 20 Marder armoured personnel carriers, and 200 reconnaissance drones.

That is a lot of shit raining all over you slave army.

So my "Russian friends" what will you do now that all 6 Kinzhal "unstoppable" hypersonic missiles were all shot down in the latest attack in Kyiv during last night?It looks like your paranoia is at the highest levels attacking civilians with hypersonic missiles committing war crimes in pure "sun light" as everybody can see the videos of such horrendous war crimes.Even France who was neutral now is clearly engaging in helping Ukraine and the fact that the Patriot air defense system shot down all Kinzhal missiles says a lot about how the war is going for the Russian side.

I can certainly tell that Macron did try pretty much everything in the diplomatic book to make Putin understand that Europe and the RF have absolutely nothing to gain from Putin's "great idea" of invading Ukraine. Failed. However, it seems that the Primakov doctrines is pretty much everything Putin needs to know about the world.

But hey, nobody expects empires to accept they are no longer empires.

Russia ought to pursue supremacy in the former Soviet sphere of influence and should pursue Eurasian integration; Fourthly, Russia ought to oppose NATO expansion; Fifthly, Russia should pursue a partnership with China.[2]

@Branko, sorry, after reading this you may have noticed that your beloved Putin's speech about the war is simply a repetition of this doctrine.

[BADecker]

What is really going on in the war... reasons behind it, and who is the aggressor. Watch the video linked below, and go to https://www.youtube.com/@LondonRealTV/videos and watch the many other videos with Col. Macgregor.


Colonel Douglas Macgregor - The US Government Lied About The Ukraine War | Part 1 Of 2


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4ETJA9g_zE
In this exclusive interview, we sit down with retired Colonel Douglas Macgregor to discuss the controversial truth behind the US government's involvement in the Ukraine War. A decorated military strategist and trusted expert, Colonel Macgregor shares his insights on the hidden agendas, political motives, and shocking revelations that have been kept from the public. Join us as we dive deep into this explosive topic, uncovering the lies and deceit that have shaped the narrative of the Ukraine War.
...





Russia’s Destruction of the Ukraine Military


https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2022/08/19/russias-destruction-of-the-ukraine-military/
Unlike the Whore Western Media William Schryver Provides the Accurate Picture of Russia’s Destruction of the Western-trained Ukraine Military:

The “Demilitarization” of Ukraine has been precisely the Russian mentality in Ukraine. Their foremost objective, from the very beginning, as explicitly articulated by President Vladimir Putin in his historic speech of February 24, 2022, was to “demilitarize” Ukraine – to destroy its army.
 
When the war began, the most capable, experienced, well-armed, and well-positioned Ukrainian forces were NOT in Kiev, but in the Donbass and Mariupol. They had been positioning there for months, with the ultimate objective of retaking the Donbass and Crimea – a goal never far from the minds of Ukraine’s ideological and political leaders.
 
Indeed, they spoke of it openly and without qualification. They strongly believed the strength of their armed forces, after eight years of preparation, had reached a point where it was capable of actually achieving that objective.
 
Their benefactors in NATO encouraged them to believe this – for it was also NATO’s fondest dream to raise its banners over the naval base at Sevastopol, and thereby wield dominance over the entire Black Sea and the Bosporus.
 
 
Pursuant to this and many other geostrategic objectives – arresting Russian resurgence foremost among them – NATO had been providing arms to Ukraine for years, and those arms shipments were expanded and accelerated dramatically in late 2021.

...

Destroying the Mother of All Proxy Armies
 
And, in order to best achieve that objective, they effected a classic Russian stratagem to impede the possibility of the forces in northern Ukraine from reinforcing those in eastern and southern Ukraine once the fighting began.
 
THIS is why they conducted the elaborate “feint and fix” operation in and around Kiev.
...

[LTU_btc]

So my "Russian friends" what will you do now that all 6 Kinzhal "unstoppable" hypersonic missiles were all shot down in the latest attack in Kyiv during last night?It looks like your paranoia is at the highest levels attacking civilians with hypersonic missiles committing war crimes in pure "sun light" as everybody can see the videos of such horrendous war crimes.Even France who was neutral now is clearly engaging in helping Ukraine and the fact that the Patriot air defense system shot down all Kinzhal missiles says a lot about how the war is going for the Russian side.

So, seems that one Kinzhal that they shot down previously wasn't just lucky coincidence. Meanwhile Russia is bragging that thye destroyed Patriot sytem with Kinzhal. But as always, reality is a bit different. Yes, partially it's true, but they didn't hit key things of system - radar, control station or battery. It was just one of 8 launcher. Now it's only question of damage they made.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/16/politics/patriot-missile-damage-ukraine/index.html
https://twitter.com/noclador/status/1658416550188130310?t=E21VcS4tLcw5fLNAsdvVPg&s=19
Seems that Patriot became main target for Russia in Ukraine and they desperately will try to destroy it as it's really game changer in the sky of Ukraine.

[paxmao]

So my "Russian friends" what will you do now that all 6 Kinzhal "unstoppable" hypersonic missiles were all shot down in the latest attack in Kyiv during last night?It looks like your paranoia is at the highest levels attacking civilians with hypersonic missiles committing war crimes in pure "sun light" as everybody can see the videos of such horrendous war crimes.Even France who was neutral now is clearly engaging in helping Ukraine and the fact that the Patriot air defense system shot down all Kinzhal missiles says a lot about how the war is going for the Russian side.

So, seems that one Kinzhal that they shot down previously wasn't just lucky coincidence. Meanwhile Russia is bragging that thye destroyed Patriot sytem with Kinzhal. But as always, reality is a bit different. Yes, partially it's true, but they didn't hit key things of system - radar, control station or battery. It was just one of 8 launcher. Now it's only question of damage they made.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/16/politics/patriot-missile-damage-ukraine/index.html
https://twitter.com/noclador/status/1658416550188130310?t=E21VcS4tLcw5fLNAsdvVPg&s=19
Seems that Patriot became main target for Russia in Ukraine and they desperately will try to destroy it as it's really game changer in the sky of Ukraine.

Oh, the key is always to mix a little bit of truth, that can be understood easily and possibly easy to verify, with the disinformation and the blatant lies. That is part of the "Russian Culture" as be.open understands it.

For example: Ukraine sinks the Moskva, "Yes the ship has sunk, what a shame. Fortunately there were no sailors onboard and most of the equipment was recovered. But Ukraine had nothing to do, it was Igor smoking by the diesel tanks again". Or "Ukraine is lying because we only launched 10 missiles and they say the intercepted 20"...

My examples are not great, because it takes a cold war and a career in propaganda to get to their level, but you get the idea.

[tvbcof]

...
Seems that Patriot became main target for Russia in Ukraine and they desperately will try to destroy it as it's really game changer in the sky of Ukraine.

Yeah, in the same way that a steel shovel is a 'game changer' to people who's other option is a pointed stick (e.g, a 9mm from a policeman's sidearm.)

The Patriot system was, to me, special because it opened my eyes to the world of propaganda.  Back when I was waiting to get sent to Iraq, the slogan 'Be a Patriot, not a Scud' was a thing and CNN was parroting the military propaganda that the system downed '42 out of 43 scuds' or something like that.  And I believed it!  Later more reliable analysis showed that the success rate for the Patriot system was between zero and one hits over the course of the conflict, and that was against effectively WW-II V2 technology.

  Edit in:  https://readingjunkie.com/2023/05/16/patriot-missiles-fail-in-ukraine-and-its-not-the-first-time/

I don't trust any numbers for interception or success rates from either side, but I do put a LOT more confidence in what the Russians say (which is not very much.)  .01 is a LOT greater than zero after all.

Even if the Patriot is 100% effective, we are still talking about using a $3,000,000 munition to hit a $20,000 drone.  No wonder the Russians seem to be doing everything possible to get this NATO kerfuffle in Ukraine to drag on for years.  Hell, they'll probably happily supply Ratheon with parts to make Patriot missiles in their Ural factories, at bargain prices, in the years to come.  They (or more likely China) might already be doing so.

BTW, some people are saying that the ($3M ea) fireworks display (which in true Ukrainian style originated from high-rise apartment complex grounds) last night, was not careful targeting but rather desperate attempt to shed munitions since there was unstoppable incoming on the way.  I wouldn't pretend to know.

[paxmao]

...
Seems that Patriot became main target for Russia in Ukraine and they desperately will try to destroy it as it's really game changer in the sky of Ukraine.

Yeah, in the same way that a steel shovel is a 'game changer' to people who's other option is a pointed stick (e.g, a 9mm from a policeman's sidearm.)

...

I don't trust any numbers for interception or success rates from either side, but I do put a LOT more confidence in what the Russians say (which is not very much.)

...

Which pretty much explains why you get consistently wrong guesses about most of the things discussed here.

Even if the Patriot is 100% effective, we are still talking about using a $3,000,000 munition to hit a $20,000 drone.....

No, we are talking 2M USD (2 shots) to protect facilities and depots worth billions. A million posts ago I questioned RF capabilities, while also questioning what the US was not saying about the real capabilities they have -  e.g. perfectly able to down most RF missiles if they really are interested in doing so.

Oh well, I wonder what the prospective buyers or the RF weapons industry are going to think being sold only third-best quality war stuff.

I would like to have some confirmation on this. Rioting in several RF cities.

https://youtu.be/vZYAP3qvEPI

[tvbcof]

...
No, we are talking 2M USD (2 shots) to protect facilities and depots worth billions. A million posts ago I questioned RF capabilities, while also questioning what the US was not saying about the real capabilities they have -  e.g. perfectly able to down most RF missiles if they really are interested in doing so.
...

Even if the missile defense was effective (newsflash: it isn't) you still have the same problem of extreme cost differentials.  Or you will once the West runs out of (questionably effective) systems to send to Ukraine for free.

If I were advising, I would suggest that it's more efficient and effective to not stockpile billions of dollars worth of gear in one place even if doing otherwise is an extra hassle.  And if it is to be done, make sure it is protected against surface attack (like in a series of deep bunkers.  Maybe the caves systems around Bahkmud Artimoscow and Soladar.  Opps, scratch that idea.)

Be sure and watch the Saudi Patriot experience in the vid from my above link.  I really almost fell of my chair laughing.  The Patriot seems to work about as well as the Covid19 vaccine which, coincidentally or not, was developed and distributed by the same military/industrial complex.

[be.open]

So my "Russian friends" what will you do now that all 6 Kinzhal "unstoppable" hypersonic missiles were all shot down in the latest attack in Kyiv during last night?It looks like your paranoia is at the highest levels attacking civilians with hypersonic missiles committing war crimes in pure "sun light" as everybody can see the videos of such horrendous war crimes.Even France who was neutral now is clearly engaging in helping Ukraine and the fact that the Patriot air defense system shot down all Kinzhal missiles says a lot about how the war is going for the Russian side.

The level of your exaltation about the effectiveness of the Patriot air defense system looks artificially stimulated. It seems that during the recent missile attack, the Patriots in Kyiv again shot down more Daggers than Russia launched them. And yes, at least one Dagger was not shot down and hit the Patriot.

So my "Russian friends" what will you do now that all 6 Kinzhal "unstoppable" hypersonic missiles were all shot down in the latest attack in Kyiv during last night?It looks like your paranoia is at the highest levels attacking civilians with hypersonic missiles committing war crimes in pure "sun light" as everybody can see the videos of such horrendous war crimes.Even France who was neutral now is clearly engaging in helping Ukraine and the fact that the Patriot air defense system shot down all Kinzhal missiles says a lot about how the war is going for the Russian side.

So, seems that one Kinzhal that they shot down previously wasn't just lucky coincidence. Meanwhile Russia is bragging that thye destroyed Patriot sytem with Kinzhal. But as always, reality is a bit different. Yes, partially it's true, but they didn't hit key things of system - radar, control station or battery. It was just one of 8 launcher. Now it's only question of damage they made.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/16/politics/patriot-missile-damage-ukraine/index.html
https://twitter.com/noclador/status/1658416550188130310?t=E21VcS4tLcw5fLNAsdvVPg&s=19
Seems that Patriot became main target for Russia in Ukraine and they desperately will try to destroy it as it's really game changer in the sky of Ukraine.

Oh, the key is always to mix a little bit of truth, that can be understood easily and possibly easy to verify, with the disinformation and the blatant lies. That is part of the "Russian Culture" as be.open understands it.

For example: Ukraine sinks the Moskva, "Yes the ship has sunk, what a shame. Fortunately there were no sailors onboard and most of the equipment was recovered. But Ukraine had nothing to do, it was Igor smoking by the diesel tanks again". Or "Ukraine is lying because we only launched 10 missiles and they say the intercepted 20"...

My examples are not great, because it takes a cold war and a career in propaganda to get to their level, but you get the idea.

In general, there is an interesting situation in the conflict now, when Ukraine wants to attack, but cannot, and Russia can attack, but does not want to. And the UK is actively pushing Russia to come forward with more long-range missiles and drones, because Russia's air defense system is very good, but not perfect. And Russia continues to conduct its "witch hunt" to identify and destroy Ukrainian air defenses and is actively engaged in the defeat of ammunition depots, reducing the potential of Ukraine for its again delayed counter-offensive. The detonation in Pavlograd, Ternopil and Khmelnitsky was very sensitive.