Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[BADecker]

The amount of Reddit tier cope that's going to justify how losing Bakhmut is actually a good thing.

The reality is, it was a very strategically important city because it now gives them access to a lot of roads a geographically significant areas. Over the coming weeks/months, expect Russia to take a lot of territory pushing up to the next/final cities in the Donbass region.

There is nothing good about loosing Bakhmut, but it does not change much the strategic map nor possibilities.

As of now, the RF fails in all that is not shelling cities and using cannon fodder to take them. It has been months since they cannot make any significant advance outside that type of dirty battle that leaves you with lots of losses and basically a flat land. Now they are trying to make Bakhmut a big thing, like a great victory or the like, but it is not, is in fact a very minimal progress.

~


You are not offering "the unofficial truth", you are not linking to "an alternative better information", you are simply blurting information that is detached from reality to the point that is basically fake. This might or not change, but NATO does not want the RF to show any kind of credible victory simply because after this war they will wage another, and another,...

All the things you talk about in your post that I have partially quoted, are save-face operations for the US and Nato getting out of Ukraine....

No, 2.8 billion and sending fighter jets, latest generation cruise missiles and training thousands of troops is not save-face sorry, it is proper help. In my view, much more could be done, but this is real. You of course will not recognise any of this, but it does not matter - the Storm Shadows and HIMARS destroy depots without your help.

Speaking of which... there seem to be some clouds of smoke in Mariupol. I wonder if the RD recruits are still smoking near weapons depots and using telegram 600 at the time?

$2.8 billion, you say. Did you notice that the amounts are slacking off? Soon it will be $2.8 thousand. The Russians and Wagner are sitting back and chuckling about how dumb Ukrainians have become since the smart ones left Ukraine like a year ago.

[paxmao]

The amount of Reddit tier cope that's going to justify how losing Bakhmut is actually a good thing.

The reality is, it was a very strategically important city because it now gives them access to a lot of roads a geographically significant areas. Over the coming weeks/months, expect Russia to take a lot of territory pushing up to the next/final cities in the Donbass region.

There is nothing good about loosing Bakhmut, but it does not change much the strategic map nor possibilities.

As of now, the RF fails in all that is not shelling cities and using cannon fodder to take them. It has been months since they cannot make any significant advance outside that type of dirty battle that leaves you with lots of losses and basically a flat land. Now they are trying to make Bakhmut a big thing, like a great victory or the like, but it is not, is in fact a very minimal progress.

~


You are not offering "the unofficial truth", you are not linking to "an alternative better information", you are simply blurting information that is detached from reality to the point that is basically fake. This might or not change, but NATO does not want the RF to show any kind of credible victory simply because after this war they will wage another, and another,...

All the things you talk about in your post that I have partially quoted, are save-face operations for the US and Nato getting out of Ukraine....

No, 2.8 billion and sending fighter jets, latest generation cruise missiles and training thousands of troops is not save-face sorry, it is proper help. In my view, much more could be done, but this is real. You of course will not recognise any of this, but it does not matter - the Storm Shadows and HIMARS destroy depots without your help.



Speaking of which... there seem to be some clouds of smoke in Mariupol. I wonder if the RD recruits are still smoking near weapons depots and using telegram 600 at the time?

$2.8 billion, you say. Did you notice that the amounts are slacking off? Soon it will be $2.8 thousand. The Russians and Wagner are sitting back and chuckling about how dumb Ukrainians have become since the smart ones left Ukraine like a year ago.

No, I do not "say", I link. This discussion is gone, the support from NATO is so evident that there is no need to further proof.

politico.eu/article/urkaine-war-germ

Germany approves new €2.7B package of arms for Ukraine

What I am "saying" is that how come no one in the RF seem to be worried about having an irregular army waging war in Ukraine, I mean, they are in Ukraine now, they can be in the streets of Moscow tomorrow - we are talking thousands. Or is the way Putin protects himself from a coup, by having two competing armies?

[tvbcof]

...
$2.8 billion, you say. Did you notice that the amounts are slacking off? Soon it will be $2.8 thousand. The Russians and Wagner are sitting back and chuckling about how dumb Ukrainians have become since the smart ones left Ukraine like a year ago.

Millions went to Russia.  Many more stayed in-situ, in both private life and throughout the government, and are feeding intel to Russia as evidenced by the pin-point strikes taking out missile systems, DU arms depots, etc.  Probably most of even the non-Russian speakers have been at least indirectly abused and dismayed by the behavior of the Nazis installed by the Zionist neocons in the 2014 coup and it's now pay-back time.

Almost without question the Nazis will double-down on the terrorism against the Ukranian people and almost without question it will lead to increasing levels of blow-back in a cyclic nature.  That's an Achilles' heal of managing a population using internal terrorism.  Tension builds up, then one small tear (e.g., Russia's 'special military operation') rips through like wild-fire.  But again, since it's all the Nazis have and know, they are sure to double-down using characteristic methods.

[be.open]

What I am "saying" is that how come no one in the RF seem to be worried about having an irregular army waging war in Ukraine, I mean, they are in Ukraine now, they can be in the streets of Moscow tomorrow - we are talking thousands. Or is the way Putin protects himself from a coup, by having two competing armies?

It is more strange to me that Ukraine is not worried about Nazi armed formations like Azov and Kraken, or Luftwaffe aerial reconnaissance units, but I understand what you mean.

Wagner is an illegal armed group in Russia, it's no secret that Wagner's commander Dmitry Utkin is an ideological Nazi. Therefore, they are thrown into the most difficult combat missions, the more they kill Ukrainian Nazis and the more they themselves die in battle, the more successfully denazification is moving forward in Ukraine. It's ironic that denazification happens at the hands of the Nazis themselves, isn't it?

Next, you need to separate the core of Wagner and the prisoners who temporarily joined them, who did the main work to free Bakhmut. This is a unique experiment on the socialization of former prisoners, in which approximately 35-40 thousand people took part. According to curator Vagner Prigozhin, 26,000 of them have already completed their six-month contract and demobilized, with a severance allowance of 1,200,000 rubles, combat veteran status, an extinguished criminal record (and a Wagner medal in case of injury or special merit). These people are now free, without weapons and with a good chance for a new life. I think that this experiment is quite successful.

ps Excellent speech by Zelensky in the US Congress on December 21, 2022, about the role of Bakhmut and the importance of the Patriot air defense system.

[paxmao]

What I am "saying" is that how come no one in the RF seem to be worried about having an irregular army waging war in Ukraine, I mean, they are in Ukraine now, they can be in the streets of Moscow tomorrow - we are talking thousands. Or is the way Putin protects himself from a coup, by having two competing armies?

It is more strange to me that Ukraine is not worried about Nazi armed formations like Azov and Kraken, or Luftwaffe aerial reconnaissance units, but I understand what you mean.

That is because Ukraine has nationalists, but no more Nazis than Russia or, for that matter, the US - so they do not worry about your imaginary friends because they are yours.

People in Ukraine fought the real Nazis in WW II. Putin is currently acting like a Nazi (e.g. 15 years of prison for anyone complaining).

 The main reason for this war is Crimea. Putin needs a port that the RF can use all through the year and he has decided that it is even better to have the base in Sebastopol and steal from Ukraine Mariupol and anything in between the two.

Wagner is an illegal armed group in Russia, it's no secret that Wagner's commander Dmitry Utkin is an ideological Nazi. Therefore, they are thrown into the most difficult combat missions, the more they kill Ukrainian Nazis and the more they themselves die in battle, the more successfully denazification is moving forward in Ukraine. It's ironic that denazification happens at the hands of the Nazis themselves, isn't it?

Next, you need to separate the core of Wagner and the prisoners who temporarily joined them, who did the main work to free Bakhmut. This is a unique experiment on the socialization of former prisoners, in which approximately 35-40 thousand people took part. According to curator Vagner Prigozhin, 26,000 of them have already completed their six-month contract and demobilized, with a severance allowance of 1,200,000 rubles, combat veteran status, an extinguished criminal record (and a Wagner medal in case of injury or special merit). These people are now free, without weapons and with a good chance for a new life. I think that this experiment is quite successful.

ps Excellent speech by Zelensky in the US Congress on December 21, 2022, about the role of Bakhmut and the importance of the Patriot air defense system.

Sure Wagner is an illegal group and Santa Claus is meeting Superman today for tea. Wagner is fighting in the front, receiving money and weaponry from the RF government and I do not see anyone taking to justice the wagnerites - in fact the RF has supplied convicts as soldiers (cannon fodder).

I cannot separate Wagner from Wagner and Wagner from Putin because they are one and the same, just cut the official bullshit seriously, you will be left will zero credibility if you have any left.

26000 have completed they contract and retired as fertiliser for the Ukrainian soil, dying as stupidly as all the rest of the young RF citizens sacrificed for nothing. From your point of view, I am sure that you consider the "experiment" very successful.

Meanwhile, the deep strikes RF people keep smoking in the wrong places deep in the occupied territories and in the RF.

[be.open]

That is because Ukraine has nationalists, but no more Nazis than Russia or, for that matter, the US - so they do not worry about your imaginary friends because they are yours.

People in Ukraine fought the real Nazis in WW II. Putin is currently acting like a Nazi (e.g. 15 years of prison for anyone complaining).

I think you have a serious problem with terms and definitions that you'd better discuss with a dictionary.

The main reason for this war is Crimea. Putin needs a port that the RF can use all through the year and he has decided that it is even better to have the base in Sebastopol and steal from Ukraine Mariupol and anything in between the two.

The main reason for Russia's invasion of Ukraine is the genocide of the Russian-speaking population in Donbas. The issue with Crimea was closed in 2014, it’s just that Ukraine has difficulties with the stages of accepting the inevitable, it is stuck at the stage of denial.

Sure Wagner is an illegal group and Santa Claus is meeting Superman today for tea. Wagner is fighting in the front, receiving money and weaponry from the RF government and I do not see anyone taking to justice the wagnerites - in fact the RF has supplied convicts as soldiers (cannon fodder).

I cannot separate Wagner from Wagner and Wagner from Putin because they are one and the same, just cut the official bullshit seriously, you will be left will zero credibility if you have any left.

26000 have completed they contract and retired as fertiliser for the Ukrainian soil, dying as stupidly as all the rest of the young RF citizens sacrificed for nothing. From your point of view, I am sure that you consider the "experiment" very successful.

Meanwhile, the deep strikes RF people keep smoking in the wrong places deep in the occupied territories and in the RF.

All the Wagnerites who died during the liberation of Bakhmut are buried in Russia. For example, there is a Wagner cemetery in the city of Goryachiy Klyuch in the Krasnodar Territory and in the city of Berezovsk in the Sverdlovsk Region. Tens of thousands of soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are fertilizing the Ukrainian land, whose bodies no one was even going to take out of Bakhmut, and there was no physical possibility.

[paxmao]

That is because Ukraine has nationalists, but no more Nazis than Russia or, for that matter, the US - so they do not worry about your imaginary friends because they are yours.

People in Ukraine fought the real Nazis in WW II. Putin is currently acting like a Nazi (e.g. 15 years of prison for anyone complaining).

I think you have a serious problem with terms and definitions that you'd better discuss with a dictionary.

The main reason for this war is Crimea. Putin needs a port that the RF can use all through the year and he has decided that it is even better to have the base in Sebastopol and steal from Ukraine Mariupol and anything in between the two.

The main reason for Russia's invasion of Ukraine is the genocide of the Russian-speaking population in Donbas. The issue with Crimea was closed in 2014, it’s just that Ukraine has difficulties with the stages of accepting the inevitable, it is stuck at the stage of denial.

Sure Wagner is an illegal group and Santa Claus is meeting Superman today for tea. Wagner is fighting in the front, receiving money and weaponry from the RF government and I do not see anyone taking to justice the wagnerites - in fact the RF has supplied convicts as soldiers (cannon fodder).

I cannot separate Wagner from Wagner and Wagner from Putin because they are one and the same, just cut the official bullshit seriously, you will be left will zero credibility if you have any left.

26000 have completed they contract and retired as fertiliser for the Ukrainian soil, dying as stupidly as all the rest of the young RF citizens sacrificed for nothing. From your point of view, I am sure that you consider the "experiment" very successful.

Meanwhile, the deep strikes RF people keep smoking in the wrong places deep in the occupied territories and in the RF.

All the Wagnerites who died during the liberation of Bakhmut are buried in Russia. For example, there is a Wagner cemetery in the city of Goryachiy Klyuch in the Krasnodar Territory and in the city of Berezovsk in the Sverdlovsk Region. Tens of thousands of soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are fertilizing the Ukrainian land, whose bodies no one was even going to take out of Bakhmut, and there was no physical possibility.

That's a good one, but if I wanted fiction histories from Russia, I would go for "Peter and the Wolf". Prokofiev was much better than you at making legends and tales fun, while Wagnerites are notoriously careless about their fallen.

Now, what is happening in Belgorod? Belgorod, Russia, not Belgorod, Kentucky.  I heard that Ukraine has nothing to do with a group of RF armed people called "the legion of freedom", that seem to be fighting for Ukraine without Ukrainian permission - inside Russia. It cannot be possible right? Russia is perfectly able to defend its borders and all Russians love Putin and would never attack their homeland?? Interestingly enough, they seem to have Humvees and other military equipment.

What is worse, it seems they are pretty much near a storage of nuclear warheads. I think is time to evacuate but then Putin would need to recognise that he cannot even defend his borders... nah, better to leave his people there.

It seems that the XXI is all about proxy wars, undeclared wars and troops that would not answer when asked "who do you fight for?".

I am going to link a guy, kind of pro-Russian but not too propagandistic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCLtgrAdnq8

How can someone be so stupid as to leave a border unattended when at war!!
 
[url=https://t.me/shot_shot/51738]https://t.me/shot_shot/51738
https://t.me/Tsaplienko/32273
https://t.me/bazabazon/17864

...

The main reason for this war is Crimea. Putin needs a port that the RF can use all through the year and he has decided that it is even better to have the base in Sebastopol and steal from Ukraine Mariupol and anything in between the two.

The main reason for Russia's invasion of Ukraine is the genocide of the Russian-speaking population in Donbas. The issue with Crimea was closed in 2014, it’s just that Ukraine has difficulties with the stages of accepting the inevitable, it is stuck at the stage of denial.
...

Nope, the issue has never been "closed" (certainly not for Ukraine an seem that nor for Putin). Crimea's water supply is in Ukrainian territory (now occupied, soon to be liberated). Crimea was fully dependant on the Kerch bridge for ground supplies (which has proven to be veeery vulnerable).

Russia just could not accept that their naval base in the Black Sea (Sebastopol), which is also geopolitically super-important to have sea access in winter, was under one threat or another (no water, no access, no leasing...). And the last straw was obviously Ukraine deciding, very rightfully, not to play ball with Russia and potentially joining NATO which would end up with Sebastopol as a NATO base or under permanent NATO threat (in Putin's mind of course).

The "genocide", the "culture", "the Nazis" ... all that is for simple minds. Politics in the RF care little about any of it.

[LTU_btc]

Next, you need to separate the core of Wagner and the prisoners who temporarily joined them, who did the main work to free Bakhmut. This is a unique experiment on the socialization of former prisoners, in which approximately 35-40 thousand people took part. According to curator Vagner Prigozhin, 26,000 of them have already completed their six-month contract and demobilized, with a severance allowance of 1,200,000 rubles, combat veteran status, an extinguished criminal record (and a Wagner medal in case of injury or special merit). These people are now free, without weapons and with a good chance for a new life. I think that this experiment is quite successful.

26 000 of serial killers, thieves, pedophiles and all other kinds of worst criminals is no longer criminals and now free on Russia's streets. Offcourse it's going to end well and they're not going to repeat their crimes. Anyway, couldn't care less what's happening in RF.

ps Excellent speech by Zelensky in the US Congress on December 21, 2022, about the role of Bakhmut and the importance of the Patriot air defense system.

Good that you reminded Patriot, yesterday on Russian Su-35 was downed in Black Sea and seems they did it with Patriot missile.
BTW seems that some strange things happening in Belgorod oblast or I should say Belgorod People's Republic.

[be.open]

Next, you need to separate the core of Wagner and the prisoners who temporarily joined them, who did the main work to free Bakhmut. This is a unique experiment on the socialization of former prisoners, in which approximately 35-40 thousand people took part. According to curator Vagner Prigozhin, 26,000 of them have already completed their six-month contract and demobilized, with a severance allowance of 1,200,000 rubles, combat veteran status, an extinguished criminal record (and a Wagner medal in case of injury or special merit). These people are now free, without weapons and with a good chance for a new life. I think that this experiment is quite successful.

26 000 of serial killers, thieves, pedophiles and all other kinds of worst criminals is no longer criminals and now free on Russia's streets. Offcourse it's going to end well and they're not going to repeat their crimes. Anyway, couldn't care less what's happening in RF.

Do not dramatize, serial killers and the most malicious criminals are in special regime prisons, from where Wagner was not recruited. Of course, some part of those who successfully completed the contract with Wagner will go down the wrong path again, this is inevitable. They will be caught again, convicted and returned to prison. But I think that the vast majority of former Wagner stormtroopers correctly use their chance for a new life, because they have all the conditions for this - money for the first time to settle down, the status of a combat veteran giving the right to numerous benefits and increased pensions, a clean history with expunged criminal record, which makes it possible to find a decent job. I think this is a successful social experiment, but time will tell.

Good that you reminded Patriot, yesterday on Russian Su-35 was downed in Black Sea and seems they did it with Patriot missile.

It's fake. Please activate the rudiments of critical thinking, the Patriot defends Kyiv, where Kyiv is and where the Black Sea is.

BTW seems that some strange things happening in Belgorod oblast or I should say Belgorod People's Republic.

Some drug addicts. The usual hype at the suggestion of Budanov, all saboteurs have already been eliminated by the FSB special forces.

How can someone be so stupid as to leave a border unattended when at war!!

In general, the border is well protected, it was a breakthrough of a small sabotage group through the checkpoint. Western curators do not encourage strikes on Russian territory, so Ukraine is forced to carry out provocations at the hands of small detachments of "Russian partisans" who do not pose a serious threat. There are no nuclear warheads in the nuclear warhead storage near the border for a long time, they were removed even before the conflict began. I think this is a common provocation such as landing on the islands in the gray zone near Kherson to force Russia to respond to the threat and divert attention from the loss of Bakhmut.

[paxmao]

Next, you need to separate the core of Wagner and the prisoners who temporarily joined them, who did the main work to free Bakhmut. This is a unique experiment on the socialization of former prisoners, in which approximately 35-40 thousand people took part. According to curator Vagner Prigozhin, 26,000 of them have already completed their six-month contract and demobilized, with a severance allowance of 1,200,000 rubles, combat veteran status, an extinguished criminal record (and a Wagner medal in case of injury or special merit). These people are now free, without weapons and with a good chance for a new life. I think that this experiment is quite successful.

26 000 of serial killers, thieves, pedophiles and all other kinds of worst criminals is no longer criminals and now free on Russia's streets. Offcourse it's going to end well and they're not going to repeat their crimes. Anyway, couldn't care less what's happening in RF.

Do not dramatize, serial killers and the most malicious criminals are in special regime prisons, from where Wagner was not recruited. Of course, some part of those who successfully completed the contract with Wagner will go down the wrong path again, this is inevitable. They will be caught again, convicted and returned to prison. But I think that the vast majority of former Wagner stormtroopers correctly use their chance for a new life, because they have all the conditions for this - money for the first time to settle down, the status of a combat veteran giving the right to numerous benefits and increased pensions, a clean history with expunged criminal record, which makes it possible to find a decent job. I think this is a successful social experiment, but time will tell.

Good that you reminded Patriot, yesterday on Russian Su-35 was downed in Black Sea and seems they did it with Patriot missile.

It's fake. Please activate the rudiments of critical thinking, the Patriot defends Kyiv, where Kyiv is and where the Black Sea is.

BTW seems that some strange things happening in Belgorod oblast or I should say Belgorod People's Republic.

Some drug addicts. The usual hype at the suggestion of Budanov, all saboteurs have already been eliminated by the FSB special forces.

How can someone be so stupid as to leave a border unattended when at war!!

In general, the border is well protected, it was a breakthrough of a small sabotage group through the checkpoint. Western curators do not encourage strikes on Russian territory, so Ukraine is forced to carry out provocations at the hands of small detachments of "Russian partisans" who do not pose a serious threat. There are no nuclear warheads in the nuclear warhead storage near the border for a long time, they were removed even before the conflict began. I think this is a common provocation such as landing on the islands in the gray zone near Kherson to force Russia to respond to the threat and divert attention from the loss of Bakhmut.

Yes, the border is well protected, with lots of fortifications and troops and all that, this was just a point that was not. Like Belgium in WWII. As I write, there are video confirmations of explosions in Belgorod.

Ukraine was not involved, just as the army in the Donbas after 2014 was not the RF army (wink wink). I think it was an special military operation of Russian citizens that feel that Belgorod needs to be de-putinified and freed from the Kleptocrats influence, so they have nothing to do with Ukraine (wink wink). Sure there is no threat... such a small group. Let's hope it does not become bigger, that could be a problem right? We would then start thinking of the Belgorod People's Republic?

To put it plainly: Anyone can play denial, hybrid war, "special operations", the "insurgency game" and the "proxy war" and create a problem where there wasn't to serve their geostrategic interests. It takes however wisdom, that Putin lacks, to solve the issues without doing it.

Of course... there were no nuclear material there... although some people out there point to the fact that it was removed that same day... as always, you a free to believe it was not there. As you are free to believe that an alert was not sounded in the nearby localities or may be decide that, in your mind, it was not.

I do not really understand your concept of "provocation". You are in a war, What provocation does anyone need?

Now, to the strategic level: Attacking the region of Belgorod, serves several purposes. First to create concern, second to require the RF to move troops there, which requires time, plenty of fuel and spreads the resources. Also these need to be proper troops, not the grunts that run towards Moscow when they see anything advancing in their general direction, and these type of troops are quite in demand. This distraction can easily become much more of a problem if the RF decides to do nothing or just send a few choppers.

Militarily, it is a good move. A few posts ago I said there were news of a column of troops heading to Belgorod. Let's see what comes out.

[be.open]

I do not really understand your concept of "provocation". You are in a war, What provocation does anyone need?

War is only in your fantasies. Russia is conducting a special military special operation, Ukraine is also not at war with Russia. There is no exchange of appropriate notes through diplomatic channels declaring war, Russia continues to pump gas to Europe through a pipeline through Ukraine, Gazprom regularly pays Naftogaz for gas transit - what fucking kind of war is this? You again have terminological difficulties, for which you'd better consult a dictionary. Please don't disappoint me, I think you're a pretty smart conversationalist. Try to independently determine the difference between the current martial law in Ukraine and the state of war.

About "provocations". Western sponsors are driving Ukraine into a counteroffensive for which it is not ready. There is not enough military equipment, the offensive brigades trained at the ranges of the West are formed from scratch and have no real combat experience, there is dramatically little air support, it is difficult to concentrate forces into a shock fist, because any concentration of forces is immediately followed by a missile strike. Under such conditions, the counter-offensive is more like a suicide. The situation is complicated by the fact that Zaluzhny seems to have been taken out of the game by a missile strike on the bunker of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine near Pavlograd, which Ukraine is trying in every possible way to hide and refute in order not to demoralize the soldiers, who are very appreciated, respected and loved by Zaluzhny. But Ukraine also cannot ignore the demands of Western sponsors to present positive results, something must be done. In such conditions, all hope is for false maneuvers and "provocations", in the hope that Russia will react to them and make a mistake by exposing some section of the front.

[paxmao]

I do not really understand your concept of "provocation". You are in a war, What provocation does anyone need?

War is only in your fantasies. Russia is conducting a special military special operation, Ukraine is also not at war with Russia. There is no exchange of appropriate notes through diplomatic channels declaring war, Russia continues to pump gas to Europe through a pipeline through Ukraine, Gazprom regularly pays Naftogaz for gas transit - what fucking kind of war is this? You again have terminological difficulties, for which you'd better consult a dictionary. Please don't disappoint me, I think you're a pretty smart conversationalist.
..

Of course you are in a war! You do not need anything in written, But anyway, that is fine, let's say that Ukraine is not anyway invading Russia. It is a group of Russians doing a special military operation to de-Putinify Belgorod and free their people. So there is no provocation, it is just that Putin does not seem to be able to keep all his citizens happy enough or afraid enough to not cause problems.

See... no provocation, just unhappy citizens, like in the Donbas.

https://t.me/breakingmash/44237

[be.open]

See... no provocation, just unhappy citizens, like in the Donbas.

https://t.me/breakingmash/44237

Do you think it will be possible to sell this to Western sponsors as a successful Ukrainian counteroffensive?

Ukraine needs to try harder, otherwise it will soon have to swallow the Chinese peace plan, to which Russia will add a couple of points. And it will be just a slightly sweetened pill of unconditional surrender in a different wrapper.

[tvbcof]

Do you think it will be possible to sell this to Western sponsors as a successful Ukrainian counteroffensive?

Ukraine needs to try harder, otherwise it will soon have to swallow the Chinese peace plan, to which Russia will add a couple of points. And it will be just a slightly sweetened pill of unconditional surrender in a different wrapper.

To me it seems as though this thing has moved well beyond 'Ukraine'.  I think that I would say something like this if I were Russia:

 - We intend to end up with a more 'sustainable' Eastern Europe which works better for all parties directly involved (especially us), and is more safe for everyone world-wide, by the time this thing is wrapped up.

 - Most complex things of importance take time and planning.  This one will.

 - Everyone can see that the power structures animating the U.S. is increasingly desperate to get WW-III going.

 - We understand why they must instigate a broader war and the time pressures which they are working under.

 - We very well may decide that it is necessary to give them what they wish, but at a time and place of OUR choosing.

 - The process for exiting NATO is currently quite protracted.  We suggest that member states start that process without delay.

[paxmao]

See... no provocation, just unhappy citizens, like in the Donbas.

https://t.me/breakingmash/44237

Do you think it will be possible to sell this to Western sponsors as a successful Ukrainian counteroffensive?

Ukraine needs to try harder, otherwise it will soon have to swallow the Chinese peace plan, to which Russia will add a couple of points. And it will be just a slightly sweetened pill of unconditional surrender in a different wrapper.

If you can sell Bakhmut as a "victory" I guess everything is possible, isn't it?

However, no need to sell anything I would say. Ukraine has nothing to do with this, this is Russian citizens performing an special military operation on their own, just like it happened in the Donbas. The RF was not in the Donbas prior to the invasion right? Or was it?

No reason to worry. Ukraine has gained the ability to reach any target in the occupied areas and well into Russia, but that is no reason to worry, Europe commits even more weapons, funds and training, but there is no reason to worry. F16 jets seem to be imminent, but no reason to worry. Drink Stolichnaya and sleep well, there is no reason to worry... ever.

Do you think it will be possible to sell this to Western sponsors as a successful Ukrainian counteroffensive?

Ukraine needs to try harder, otherwise it will soon have to swallow the Chinese peace plan, to which Russia will add a couple of points. And it will be just a slightly sweetened pill of unconditional surrender in a different wrapper.

To me it seems as though this thing has moved well beyond 'Ukraine'.  I think that I would say something like this if I were Russia:

 - We intend to end up with a more 'sustainable' Eastern Europe which works better for all parties directly involved (especially us), and is more safe for everyone world-wide, by the time this thing is wrapped up.

 - Most complex things of importance take time and planning.  This one will.

 - Everyone can see that the power structures animating the U.S. is increasingly desperate to get WW-III going.

 - We understand why they must instigate a broader war and the time pressures which they are working under.

 - We very well may decide that it is necessary to give them what they wish, but at a time and place of OUR choosing.

 - The process for exiting NATO is currently quite protracted.  We suggest that member states start that process without delay.

Yet the RF decided to simply send in the troops. What could go wrong? Many times over... Putin is going to get the Congress Medal of Honor... of the US Congress.

[be.open]

Do you think it will be possible to sell this to Western sponsors as a successful Ukrainian counteroffensive?

Ukraine needs to try harder, otherwise it will soon have to swallow the Chinese peace plan, to which Russia will add a couple of points. And it will be just a slightly sweetened pill of unconditional surrender in a different wrapper.

To me it seems as though this thing has moved well beyond 'Ukraine'.  I think that I would say something like this if I were Russia:

 - We intend to end up with a more 'sustainable' Eastern Europe which works better for all parties directly involved (especially us), and is more safe for everyone world-wide, by the time this thing is wrapped up.

 - Most complex things of importance take time and planning.  This one will.

 - Everyone can see that the power structures animating the U.S. is increasingly desperate to get WW-III going.

 - We understand why they must instigate a broader war and the time pressures which they are working under.

 - We very well may decide that it is necessary to give them what they wish, but at a time and place of OUR choosing.

 - The process for exiting NATO is currently quite protracted.  We suggest that member states start that process without delay.

In early May, there was an entertaining one-hour conference hosted by the Canadian Foreign Policy Institute with Jeffrey Sachs and Ivan Katchanovski.

Here are a couple of quotes from there:

The war could have been avoided because the Soviet Union and then Russia said over and over: "Don't expand NATO into Ukraine." If you want to know what caused this war, here is the explanation. The rest is details.

There was a detailed account with time frames in a 1997 Foreign Affairs article by Brzezinski: “The expansion of NATO and the EU must proceed in stages. By 1999 Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic will be admitted to NATO. By 2003, the EU will initiate accession negotiations for all three Baltic republics, and between 2005 and 2010 for Ukraine. All they do is play out Brzezinski's plan to encircle Russia in the Black Sea. That is the US plan. Putin said in 2008 - we want to cooperate, but don't expand NATO.

In March 2022, Zelensky allowed a neutral status for Ukraine. And in Ankara, with the mediation of Turkey, negotiations began. On the basis of Ukrainian neutrality, rapid progress was made, but the US insisted on continuing the war, according to Naftali Bennett.

The government of Ukraine has put everything in their country at stake with the support of the United States. This is a terrible adventure. Ask Vietnamese, Nicaraguans, Libyans, Syrians, "Isn't it great to gamble with the US as your patron?"

[nutildah]

Whats interesting is I keep meeting Russians that have fled their country to avoid the draft. Met one in Feb and then 3 more this month. They are all nice, intelligent people that just don't want to have to fight in an utterly pointless war. I've met other Russians who left because of the lack of job opportunities. They had bosses who were from the US or UK, got fired, and now they can't find work b/c nobody will hire them.

Both amazing and sad that the whole thing is still going. Doesn't seem like whoever is actually in charge of Russia's military was ever actually trying to win. So the only way it will end is when Putin dies or is otherwise ousted from power.

[be.open]

See... no provocation, just unhappy citizens, like in the Donbas.

https://t.me/breakingmash/44237

Do you think it will be possible to sell this to Western sponsors as a successful Ukrainian counteroffensive?

Ukraine needs to try harder, otherwise it will soon have to swallow the Chinese peace plan, to which Russia will add a couple of points. And it will be just a slightly sweetened pill of unconditional surrender in a different wrapper.

If you can sell Bakhmut as a "victory" I guess everything is possible, isn't it?

However, no need to sell anything I would say. Ukraine has nothing to do with this, this is Russian citizens performing an special military operation on their own, just like it happened in the Donbas. The RF was not in the Donbas prior to the invasion right? Or was it?

No reason to worry. Ukraine has gained the ability to reach any target in the occupied areas and well into Russia, but that is no reason to worry, Europe commits even more weapons, funds and training, but there is no reason to worry. F16 jets seem to be imminent, but no reason to worry. Drink Stolichnaya and sleep well, there is no reason to worry... ever.

I am quite calm. And Ukraine has already become a laughingstock even for the Poles, who called the foray into the Belgorod region another propaganda circus.  

ps If "Ukraine has nothing to do with this, this is Russian citizens performing an special military operation on their own", then how did the saboteurs end up with American MaxxPro and Hummer armored vehicles? Ukraine does not control US military assistance?

pps Kim Dotcom

In Bakhmut a restaurant owner and 60,000 convicts destroyed an army that NATO trained for 9 years. Reminds me of the farmers in sandals that kicked the US out of Afghanistan. The US Govt spends a trillion dollars >per year< on a military that can’t win anything. What a waste.

[paxmao]

Do you think it will be possible to sell this to Western sponsors as a successful Ukrainian counteroffensive?

Ukraine needs to try harder, otherwise it will soon have to swallow the Chinese peace plan, to which Russia will add a couple of points. And it will be just a slightly sweetened pill of unconditional surrender in a different wrapper.

To me it seems as though this thing has moved well beyond 'Ukraine'.  I think that I would say something like this if I were Russia:

 - We intend to end up with a more 'sustainable' Eastern Europe which works better for all parties directly involved (especially us), and is more safe for everyone world-wide, by the time this thing is wrapped up.

 - Most complex things of importance take time and planning.  This one will.

 - Everyone can see that the power structures animating the U.S. is increasingly desperate to get WW-III going.

 - We understand why they must instigate a broader war and the time pressures which they are working under.

 - We very well may decide that it is necessary to give them what they wish, but at a time and place of OUR choosing.

 - The process for exiting NATO is currently quite protracted.  We suggest that member states start that process without delay.

In early May, there was an entertaining one-hour conference hosted by the Canadian Foreign Policy Institute with Jeffrey Sachs and Ivan Katchanovski.

Here are a couple of quotes from there:

The war could have been avoided because the Soviet Union and then Russia said over and over: "Don't expand NATO into Ukraine." If you want to know what caused this war, here is the explanation. The rest is details.

There was a detailed account with time frames in a 1997 Foreign Affairs article by Brzezinski: “The expansion of NATO and the EU must proceed in stages. By 1999 Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic will be admitted to NATO. By 2003, the EU will initiate accession negotiations for all three Baltic republics, and between 2005 and 2010 for Ukraine. All they do is play out Brzezinski's plan to encircle Russia in the Black Sea. That is the US plan. Putin said in 2008 - we want to cooperate, but don't expand NATO.

In March 2022, Zelensky allowed a neutral status for Ukraine. And in Ankara, with the mediation of Turkey, negotiations began. On the basis of Ukrainian neutrality, rapid progress was made, but the US insisted on continuing the war, according to Naftali Bennett.

The government of Ukraine has put everything in their country at stake with the support of the United States. This is a terrible adventure. Ask Vietnamese, Nicaraguans, Libyans, Syrians, "Isn't it great to gamble with the US as your patron?"

Summing up the arguments:
 
Putin's RF - The war could be avoided by letting Putin and the current Moscow government decide what Ukraine and the Baltic Republics can or cannot do. Primakov doctrine at full throttle.

US Falcons position (and Ukraine's): No, you cannot get it your way. US relentless pressure, as usual. Go to war, do speeches, create proxy wars and ride a horse half naked, but the answer is not.

Putin does no longer get to set the conditions and if he goes to war... I guess the US is very happy about it. Revitalises the NATO (which was pretty much dead), sells weapons, creates a new ally where there was not, expands NATO and in the way gets Europe and Russia to fuckup their economies.

When things get to this point, one has to measure carefully how big can bite and how big is the other dog. I am afraid that the USSR is gone. It's might is also much reduced (if you want to consider the RF the heir to it).

But this war is also the failure of the RF to present a credible alliance alternative - a soft power incentive - for many the former USSR republics and that has a lot to do with how the RF government has done business after becoming the RF, but also about how the USSR treated these nations.

...
I am quite calm. And Ukraine has already become a laughingstock even for the Poles, who called the foray into the Belgorod region another propaganda circus.  

ps If "Ukraine has nothing to do with this, this is Russian citizens performing an special military operation on their own", then how did the saboteurs end up with American MaxxPro and Hummer armored vehicles? Ukraine does not control US military assistance?

pps Kim Dotcom

In Bakhmut a restaurant owner and 60,000 convicts destroyed an army that NATO trained for 9 years. Reminds me of the farmers in sandals that kicked the US out of Afghanistan. The US Govt spends a trillion dollars >per year< on a military that can’t win anything. What a waste.

The Poles? Poland is giving Ukraine pretty much anything they ask for including Migs-29 and tanks. Relative to their size they are the biggest contributor... do not believe everything you read.

Hummer and all that... oh I guess they got them in the same way that "Ukrainian Separatists" troops in the Donbas had Russian tanks and Russian military "advisors". It is just Russians fighting for their freedom with whatever equipment they can get hold of. Just like the RF Ukrainians in Luhansk.

Seriously... If I were Russian I would not use Afghanistan as an example. You know...

The Ukrainian troops in Bakhmut were not "elite" at all. There is ample coverage of where the well trained troops are, but you do not want to believe it anyway so... time will tell.

[be.open]

Summing up the arguments:
 
Putin's RF - The war could be avoided by letting Putin and the current Moscow government decide what Ukraine and the Baltic Republics can or cannot do. Primakov doctrine at full throttle.

US Falcons position (and Ukraine's): No, you cannot get it your way. US relentless pressure, as usual. Go to war, do speeches, create proxy wars and ride a horse half naked, but the answer is not.

Putin does no longer get to set the conditions and if he goes to war... I guess the US is very happy about it. Revitalises the NATO (which was pretty much dead), sells weapons, creates a new ally where there was not, expands NATO and in the way gets Europe and Russia to fuckup their economies.

When things get to this point, one has to measure carefully how big can bite and how big is the other dog. I am afraid that the USSR is gone. It's might is also much reduced (if you want to consider the RF the heir to it).

But this war is also the failure of the RF to present a credible alliance alternative - a soft power incentive - for many the former USSR republics and that has a lot to do with how the RF government has done business after becoming the RF, but also about how the USSR treated these nations.

Again, you're trying to turn things upside down in a rather clumsy way, quite in your style. I remember the events of 2014 very well, the base in Sevastopol was a real bone of contention. After the successful coup d'état in Ukraine, the United States' wet dreams of turning the Black Sea into NATO's inland sea began to rapidly take on the outlines of reality and this became a trigger for the annexation of Crimea. The current conflict in Ukraine is a natural continuation of those events. The US desperately needed a proxy conflict with Russia, and it got it. The only nuance is that when Russia realized that the conflict could not be avoided, it struck first and carried it out according to its own scenario. Do not exaggerate the role of Ukraine or the Baltics here, this is a proxy conflict between the United States and Russia. All other countries are backing dancers here, including the UK (which has its own ambitions, but does not have enough strength to realize them). Well, Ukraine in the unenviable role of the stage.

Seriously... If I were Russian I would not use Afghanistan as an example. You know...

In Afghanistan, they treat Russia with respect, they remember that it was an honest and worthy adversary. And the Afghans urinate on the American flag in the morning, because the United States deceived them, just as they will deceive Ukraine at the first opportunity.

It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.