Russian Invasion of Ukraine[In Progress]

[BADecker]

^^^ DumBAss, you do not want peace, you want surrender which means another war in a couple of years.

I know you are not great at providing reasons, you just throw stuff to see how much sticks, but perhaps you will answer a couple of questions:

If Putin gets what he wants, what stops him for wanting more? And what stops him from going to war again and again to get it?

You do not have real answer to any of this, you are just repeating slogans from you local MAGA priest / part time janitor.

By your own writings, Russian military is SO bad that they can't attack anyone after Ukraine, and if they do, you'll send 10 SAS
members and they will wipe whole Russian army

Most people in the West don't know that there have been troops from the West in the war for months - https://duckduckgo.com/?q=SAS+ukraine+war&ia=web.

[DaRude]

...

[...]

X sending X made bombs, transporting on X equipment, programmed by X personnel, using X made secret maps, and X guidance system, and X satellites during the flight only for Y to push the red button, apparently didn't convince anyone that X shouldn't be considered to be a part of the conflict. And rightfully so, wouldn't you say?

Try turning that around, what if Russia gave missiles to Yemen, transported them to Yemen, Russians programing the missile to strike deep inside US, Russians then loaded their secret maps, and then using Russian guidance system and satellites, only for a Yemeni to press the red button would absolve Russia from any responsibility? I'm sure the US would totally see it that way too

That's the whole premise for countries exporting advanced weapons being liable for it. Why else do you think nations receiving the advanced weapons must ask for permission. Otherwise we would've already nuked our blue marble with humanities last words laying blame on some proxy country.

That is something solved by international law, war is not a "new thing". International law allows neutral countries to trade with whomever they wish. Weapons are goods and services, like training or maintaining, are equally tradeable. So...

I load a gun, sell you a loaded gun, guide you through target practice with the gun and tell you how to aim the gun and what are the best targets, all done according to the law.

You fire the gun and kill someone. Who is going to jail if caught?

Isn't it obvious that both will, it's called being an accomplice (at best).

If X wants to shoot you, tells Y and Y knowingly approves, Y drives X to your house in Y's car, Y loads Y's gun with Y's bullets and hands it to X, then Y also provides the map of your house to X. X executes the plan. What country are you in that you think Y should not be held liable in such crime?

Even just handing someone a weapon to commit a crime would mean you're liable in US.

Did you know what they were going to do with the gun?

If you loaned someone your firearm knowing that they were going to use it to commit a criminal offense, you could find yourself in serious legal trouble for aiding and abetting. Aiding and abetting is when someone helps or encourages another person to commit a crime. If you give someone a weapon to be used during a crime, you can be charged. This is true even if you didn’t have any other role in the crime and weren’t present at the scene.

[paxmao]

^^ dumBAss, there are many reasons to start a war, but there is a guaranteed way of having another war with even more victims real soon - Providing Putin with a good reason to have one - namely, letting him "win" this one. Yes, Ukraine surrenders, Putin takes over and... there are Lithuania, Estonia, Moldova,...

There is a very good reason why the US and the allies formed NATO: Ruzzia is a problem. It is not pacific, it is not democratic and is eager to rebuild the USSR. I am not sure if you remember the panic all over the US about the nuclear threat in the 50s and 60sor if you were there, but that is when you let someone like Putin have it their way.

^^^ DumBAss, you do not want peace, you want surrender which means another war in a couple of years.

I know you are not great at providing reasons, you just throw stuff to see how much sticks, but perhaps you will answer a couple of questions:

If Putin gets what he wants, what stops him for wanting more? And what stops him from going to war again and again to get it?

You do not have real answer to any of this, you are just repeating slogans from you local MAGA priest / part time janitor.

By your own writings, Russian military is SO bad that they can't attack anyone after Ukraine, and if they do, you'll send 10 SAS
members and they will wipe whole Russian army

It is terrible, I think you can even agree to that. Before the war in Ukraine it was assumed to be a well armed, technologically advanced and well seasoned army. But this war has shown that they cannot really defend their skies, they need to send more than 1000 soldiers a day to the meatgrinder for minimal advances and that the generals are pretty much butchers.

I can give you that they can put up a good defence when the enemy plan is telegraphed a few months in advance, they are attacked without aviation or other combined arms and they have a number's superiority of 1 to 5. That, they can do.

If the enemy does not publish the plan well in advance then... well, you get Kursk.

...

[...]

X sending X made bombs, transporting on X equipment, programmed by X personnel, using X made secret maps, and X guidance system, and X satellites during the flight only for Y to push the red button, apparently didn't convince anyone that X shouldn't be considered to be a part of the conflict. And rightfully so, wouldn't you say?

Try turning that around, what if Russia gave missiles to Yemen, transported them to Yemen, Russians programing the missile to strike deep inside US, Russians then loaded their secret maps, and then using Russian guidance system and satellites, only for a Yemeni to press the red button would absolve Russia from any responsibility? I'm sure the US would totally see it that way too

That's the whole premise for countries exporting advanced weapons being liable for it. Why else do you think nations receiving the advanced weapons must ask for permission. Otherwise we would've already nuked our blue marble with humanities last words laying blame on some proxy country.

That is something solved by international law, war is not a "new thing". International law allows neutral countries to trade with whomever they wish. Weapons are goods and services, like training or maintaining, are equally tradeable. So...

I load a gun, sell you a loaded gun, guide you through target practice with the gun and tell you how to aim the gun and what are the best targets, all done according to the law.

You fire the gun and kill someone. Who is going to jail if caught?

Isn't it obvious that both will, it's called being an accomplice (at best).

If X wants to shoot you, tells Y and Y knowingly approves, Y drives X to your house in Y's car, Y loads Y's gun with Y's bullets and hands it to X, then Y also provides the map of your house to X. X executes the plan. What country are you in that you think Y should not be held liable in such crime?

Even just handing someone a weapon to commit a crime would mean you're liable in US.

Did you know what they were going to do with the gun?

If you loaned someone your firearm knowing that they were going to use it to commit a criminal offense, you could find yourself in serious legal trouble for aiding and abetting. Aiding and abetting is when someone helps or encourages another person to commit a crime. If you give someone a weapon to be used during a crime, you can be charged. This is true even if you didn’t have any other role in the crime and weren’t present at the scene.

Wait... you are talking about Iran, North Korea and China?

[DaRude]

^^ dumBAss, there are many reasons to start a war, but there is a guaranteed way of having another war with even more victims real soon - Providing Putin with a good reason to have one - namely, letting him "win" this one. Yes, Ukraine surrenders, Putin takes over and... there are Lithuania, Estonia, Moldova,...

There is a very good reason why the US and the allies formed NATO: Ruzzia is a problem. It is not pacific, it is not democratic and is eager to rebuild the USSR. I am not sure if you remember the panic all over the US about the nuclear threat in the 50s and 60sor if you were there, but that is when you let someone like Putin have it their way.

^^^ DumBAss, you do not want peace, you want surrender which means another war in a couple of years.

I know you are not great at providing reasons, you just throw stuff to see how much sticks, but perhaps you will answer a couple of questions:

If Putin gets what he wants, what stops him for wanting more? And what stops him from going to war again and again to get it?

You do not have real answer to any of this, you are just repeating slogans from you local MAGA priest / part time janitor.

By your own writings, Russian military is SO bad that they can't attack anyone after Ukraine, and if they do, you'll send 10 SAS
members and they will wipe whole Russian army

It is terrible, I think you can even agree to that. Before the war in Ukraine it was assumed to be a well armed, technologically advanced and well seasoned army. But this war has shown that they cannot really defend their skies, they need to send more than 1000 soldiers a day to the meatgrinder for minimal advances and that the generals are pretty much butchers.

I can give you that they can put up a good defence when the enemy plan is telegraphed a few months in advance, they are attacked without aviation or other combined arms and they have a number's superiority of 1 to 5. That, they can do.

If the enemy does not publish the plan well in advance then... well, you get Kursk.

...

[...]

X sending X made bombs, transporting on X equipment, programmed by X personnel, using X made secret maps, and X guidance system, and X satellites during the flight only for Y to push the red button, apparently didn't convince anyone that X shouldn't be considered to be a part of the conflict. And rightfully so, wouldn't you say?

Try turning that around, what if Russia gave missiles to Yemen, transported them to Yemen, Russians programing the missile to strike deep inside US, Russians then loaded their secret maps, and then using Russian guidance system and satellites, only for a Yemeni to press the red button would absolve Russia from any responsibility? I'm sure the US would totally see it that way too

That's the whole premise for countries exporting advanced weapons being liable for it. Why else do you think nations receiving the advanced weapons must ask for permission. Otherwise we would've already nuked our blue marble with humanities last words laying blame on some proxy country.

That is something solved by international law, war is not a "new thing". International law allows neutral countries to trade with whomever they wish. Weapons are goods and services, like training or maintaining, are equally tradeable. So...

I load a gun, sell you a loaded gun, guide you through target practice with the gun and tell you how to aim the gun and what are the best targets, all done according to the law.

You fire the gun and kill someone. Who is going to jail if caught?

Isn't it obvious that both will, it's called being an accomplice (at best).

If X wants to shoot you, tells Y and Y knowingly approves, Y drives X to your house in Y's car, Y loads Y's gun with Y's bullets and hands it to X, then Y also provides the map of your house to X. X executes the plan. What country are you in that you think Y should not be held liable in such crime?

Even just handing someone a weapon to commit a crime would mean you're liable in US.

Did you know what they were going to do with the gun?

If you loaned someone your firearm knowing that they were going to use it to commit a criminal offense, you could find yourself in serious legal trouble for aiding and abetting. Aiding and abetting is when someone helps or encourages another person to commit a crime. If you give someone a weapon to be used during a crime, you can be charged. This is true even if you didn’t have any other role in the crime and weren’t present at the scene.

Wait... you are talking about Iran, North Korea and China?

How come everything was fine before 2014, and there was no discussion of anyone attacking anyone? No sanctions, talks of nukes, trade was wide open both ways, Russia was not aligned with China and was exporting most of its resources west. What could've possibly happened to change all of this Oh right, surely just a coincidence...





Following this logic, if things go back to status quo of 2013, why would Russia attack Ukraine again or Lithuania, Estonia especially that they are in NATO? As we can see both sides appear to be trying to avoid direct confrontation, thankfully.

[BADecker]

^^ dumBAss, there are many reasons to start a war, but there is a guaranteed way of having another war with even more victims real soon - Providing Putin with a good reason to have one - namely, letting him "win" this one. Yes, Ukraine surrenders, Putin takes over and... there are Lithuania, Estonia, Moldova,...

There is a very good reason why the US and the allies formed NATO: Ruzzia is a problem. It is not pacific, it is not democratic and is eager to rebuild the USSR. I am not sure if you remember the panic all over the US about the nuclear threat in the 50s and 60sor if you were there, but that is when you let someone like Putin have it their way.

~

You seem to like the idea of playing with strategy theory. So, consider this.

The Ukraine/Russia border is quite a lengthy stretch of land. With a million troops in reserve, Russia could easily send a thousand troops to any section of this border, and take over a whole bunch of Ukraine land. Ukraine could do nothing to stop them, because Ukraine troops are spread way to thin as it is. Why doesn't Russia do this? Because it isn't in their mind to conquer Ukraine. All they want is NATO out, and the Black Sea Corridor.

Look at Kharkiv. Russia wasn't forced out of the area by Ukraine troops. Russia was simply humanitarian, and didn't want a bunch of Ukrainian citizens harmed. So they left. Same with Kiev at the beginning of the war. Russia left because they didn't want to harm Ukrainians and didn't want Kiev, period.

You keep on acting like Ukraine has a chance. And when everybody can see that Ukraine is going to fail, then you start to talk military strategy. Or you focus on some little, momentary success that Ukraine has, while ignoring all kinds of Ukrainian losses. Most importantly, you ignore the impetus/inertia of the war which anybody can see is in the Ukraine-loss direction.

How much are you getting paid to attempt to continue a war that is killing dozens of Ukrainians every day along with a few Russians? The principle isn't even there since it was Ukraine that started the war back in 2014.

At the rate Ukraine is going, they will lose it all to Russia by almost literally suiciding themselves. They are almost at this stage right now. Just a little longer and Russia will have it all by simply being patient.

[Kingperry22]

This war has lingered for too long. Causing serious problems and damages that are irreparable to human lives. It started as joke but many have lost people from both side. It's high time the Ukrainian-Russian war end it has equally cause economic devastation and geopolitical tension across the globe. The cost of commodities has risen to peak causing a persistent hike in cost of basic living. The world and big players needs to do better. What's the essence of having the United Nations if not for geopolitical crisis. NATO anchor the meeting between Russia and Ukraine whereas the UN act as a mitigator.

[BADecker]

^^^ Should a war linger at all? Of course it should. At least that's what the US and NATO think in this war. If you look up the Orange Revolution in Ukraine, you will see that way back in 2004/2005 Ukraine resisted the West successfully. But that didn't stop the US. The CIA infiltrated the Ukraine government and started the war in 2014 or earlier. Russia, wanting peace all along, took their fine time to resist by their formal entrance into the war in 2022.

Get the US out of Ukraine so there can be peace.