Ukraine rejects Russia Gazprom gas price hike

[Nemo1024]

I was about to write that too... But I am not sure about Northern Europe being the winners. They still need to pay for the gas, and it will be EU taxpayers who will be paying for the gas in Ukraine, as opposed to Russian taxpayers (the subsidies to Ukraine were taken from Russian state budget) from the past years.

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[niothor]

I was about to write that too... But I am not sure about Northern Europe being the winners. They still need to pay for the gas, and it will be EU taxpayers who will be paying for the gas in Ukraine, as opposed to Russian taxpayers (the subsidies to Ukraine were taken from Russian state budget) from the past years.

And those are not taxpayers money? Couldn't those money have been spent on something good for the russian people? not ukraine?

[Nemo1024]

That's what I meant. Re-reading my post, I can see it is a bit ambiguous.
Yes, Russians were starting to get fed up with that, especially since Russian people saw that those indirect subsidies didn't reach the Ukrainian people, but ended up in the pockets of Timoshenko, Yanukovich and the like. Now those subsidies would have ended up financing the coup government, and no one wants that.
The actions of the Russian government are therefore in accordance with the will of the people, which does not happen often.

[Vod]

Well, every joke has a grain of truth in it, doesn't it?
If you don't pay for your mortgage, the bank takes your house...

True.  But if you don't pay your gas bill, the utility company cannot take your house...

All I know for sure about this is that Ukrainians are going to suffer immeasurably this coming winter.

[Balthazar]

But if you don't pay your gas bill, the utility company cannot take your house...

You can't imagine how you're wrong.   If you have a debt larger then price of your house than it's a real problem for you. Eviction for the debts (loans, taxes, electricity, gas etc) it's a normal judicial practice.

[Vod]

But if you don't pay your gas bill, the utility company cannot take your house...

You can't imagine how you're wrong.   If you have a debt larger then price of your house than it's a real problem for you. Eviction for the debts (loans, taxes, electricity, gas etc) it's a normal judicial practice.

Ukraine is worth a lot more than one billion dollars.   

[Nemo1024]

You are right. It's definitely not worth 1 billion:

In the past four years, with all the discounts provided by Russia, Moscow claims to have subsidized Ukraine’s economy to the tune of $35.4 billion, coupled with a $3 billion loan tranche in December last year.

And no one wants Ukraine (except for NATO, that is), so your comment is off the mark

[bryant.coleman]

Ukraine is worth a lot more than one billion dollars.   

Ukraine is not even worth one USD. This is because, to prevent the complete economic collapse of Ukraine, you need to spend at least $ 15 billion every year. So if any one invades Ukraine and makes it his property, he has to dish out $15 b/yr from his pocket.

[Vod]

Ukraine is worth a lot more than one billion dollars.   

Ukraine is not even worth one USD. This is because, to prevent the complete economic collapse of Ukraine, you need to spend at least $ 15 billion every year. So if any one invades Ukraine and makes it his property, he has to dish out $15 b/yr from his pocket.

Hmmm, this is why I don't tell people I'm a 1/4 Ukrainian.   

[Balthazar]

Ukraine is worth a lot more than one billion dollars.   

Ukraine is not even worth one USD. This is because, to prevent the complete economic collapse of Ukraine, you need to spend at least $ 15 billion every year. So if any one invades Ukraine and makes it his property, he has to dish out $15 b/yr from his pocket.

That's not quite right. If somalia pirates will form their government here, then they would be able to resolve this issue quickly... Through legalization of slave trade.

[niothor]

Ukraine is worth a lot more than one billion dollars.   

Ukraine is not even worth one USD. This is because, to prevent the complete economic collapse of Ukraine, you need to spend at least $ 15 billion every year. So if any one invades Ukraine and makes it his property, he has to dish out $15 b/yr from his pocket.

A country is not like a company indebt. There are plenty of valuable thing there that are owned by the people not thinking about the goverment.
In my country for example just the buildings owned by the government are worth around 10 billions euros. And we're not talking about land and companies , just plain old houses , hotels , resorts etc.
Just to maintain those close to 100 millions have been spent in the last two years.

And this well over 10 years of selling them piece by piece.

[bryant.coleman]

A country is not like a company indebt. There are plenty of valuable thing there that are owned by the people not thinking about the goverment.

Most of the agricultural land is already owned by China. The steel mills and coal mines are privately owned. Even if you sell all the government assets, I don't think you'll be getting enough money to cover even 10% of the national debt.

[niothor]

A country is not like a company indebt. There are plenty of valuable thing there that are owned by the people not thinking about the goverment.

Most of the agricultural land is already owned by China. The steel mills and coal mines are privately owned. Even if you sell all the government assets, I don't think you'll be getting enough money to cover even 10% of the national debt.

If your quoting that fake news about china buying 10% of agricultural land let me know that there was a disclaimer the second day and it was a mistake by all newspapers.

http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2013/09/24/china-ukraine-no-massive-farm-deal-yet/

Contrary to a flurry of Monday news reports, China has not inked a massive agriculture investment giving it ownership of some 5 per cent of land in Ukraine, itself home to some of the world’s richest soil. As reported, it would have handed China a chunk of Ukrainian land the size of Belgium.

[bryant.coleman]

If your quoting that fake news about china buying 10% of agricultural land let me know that there was a disclaimer the second day and it was a mistake by all newspapers.

Most of the Ukrainian agricultural land is under long-term lease agreements. I don't know how much land China owns, but foreigners seems to be controlling the vast majority of it. It doesn't help that Ukraine is having the most fertile soils in all of Europe.

[niothor]

If your quoting that fake news about china buying 10% of agricultural land let me know that there was a disclaimer the second day and it was a mistake by all newspapers.

Most of the Ukrainian agricultural land is under long-term lease agreements. I don't know how much land China owns, but foreigners seems to be controlling the vast majority of it. It doesn't help that Ukraine is having the most fertile soils in all of Europe.

Currently only less than 20% percent of it is under lease. And that is lease , that is payed annual and can be revoked any time.
So , they still own much of their agricultural land and that is worth a lot.

The same type of soil is bought by foreign investors here with well over 4000euros /ha. That would fetch them over 160 mld.

[Nemo1024]

Just read a joke:

Ukrainian geologists discovered that gas in Ukraine is not Russian at all. It comes from some huge pipe...

[Kiki112]

Just read a joke:

Ukrainian geologists discovered that gas in Ukraine is not Russian at all. It comes from some huge pipe...

hahahah

some black humor is needed in these times

[Nemo1024]

Russians are good at black humour. That's what got the nation through a Civil War, Stalin's repressions, WWII and all kinds of other hardships both before and after.

[bryant.coleman]

Russians are good at black humour. That's what got the nation through a Civil War, Stalin's repressions, WWII and all kinds of other hardships both before and after.

Yes.... But Civil War, Stalin's genocides and WW2 were nothing when compared with less than a decade of Boris Yeltsin's rule. That was the biggest hardship.

[Nemo1024]

- How are you living, Russians? - Yeltsin asks jokingly
- Quite fine, - the men in the crowd joke back.

 

- Everyone says that somebody supports Yeltsin.
- Nobody supports him, he manages to walk by himself.

 

Reception at the Kremlin. Yeltsin addresses the British ambassador:
Y: I notice that you are preoccupied by something...
A: I did not want to mention, but my watch has gone missing. It is a gift from the the Queen and is very precious to me.
Y: Whom did you talk to during the reception, Who do you suspect?
A: With that gentlemen with white flower in the buttonhole.
Y: That is the head of my administration.
A: Oh, pardon me.
Yeltsin leaves the ambassador and returns after some time, brandishing the watch.
Y: This is for you.
A: And what did your head of administration have to say for himself?
Y: Say? He didn't notice a thing!