Ukraine rejects Russia Gazprom gas price hike

[Balthazar]

Yep, procedure is quite simple. Temperature of coal deposits is quite high, so all what you need is pump air into the deposits area.

C + H₂O <-> CO + H₂
2C + O₂ -> 2CO
CH4 + H₂O <-> CO + 3H₂
2CH₄ + O₂ -> 2CO + 4H₂

Then you will be able to use the resulting gases for the synthesis of methanol:

CO + 2H₂ <-> CH₃OH

or mixture of alkanes:

nCO + (2n+1)H₂ <-> C_nH_2n+2 + nH₂O
nCO + 2nH₂ <-> C_nH_2n + nH₂

Unfortunately, this process also gives you alkenes as by-products, which tend to polymerization. However, it's possible to find optimal pressure, temperature and catalyst to synthesize a mixture of alkanes, which will be identical with petroleum.

P.S. But you shouldn't forget about ecological damage and possible destruction of coal layers by accidental explosion.

[1714638986]

1714638986

[deisik]

I think Joe fuc**** Mcain and other senators put pressure on Bulgarian parliament

Yes... the announcement came after the talks with US Senators. The Americans are currently promoting the Trans-Anatolian pipeline, which will export Azerbaijani gas to Ukraine. So they have real intentions to block the South Stream.

Just like the Russians have interest in the South Stream..

I don't see any major conspiracy there.
With russian puppets always threatening to cut the gas it's a normal move.
Look at 247 crypto , 20 of it's posts were "burn wood".

Do you feel like further dealing with those kind of people?

There is enough coal in Europe (Germany). The Nazis even managed to produce benzine from it (just like Apartheid did under embargo)...

I think you referred to gasoline there:). As in both russian and romanian benzin is used for gasoline.

You're right indeed. I intentionally used this German word (also, a Rammstein song is called Benzin)...

[bryant.coleman]

This is interesting:

Lithuania competition watchdog fines Gazprom $48 mln

http://af.reuters.com/article/energyOilNews/idAFL5N0OR2JU20140610?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0

[Chef Ramsay]

Also interesting

The Russians are actually making a move against the petrodollar. It appears that they are quite serious about their de-dollarization strategy. The largest natural gas producer on the planet, Gazprom, has signed agreements with some of their biggest customers to switch payments for natural gas from U.S. dollars to euros. And Gazprom would have never done this without the full approval of the Russian government, because the Russian government holds a majority stake in Gazprom. There hasn't been a word about this from the big mainstream news networks in the United States, but this is huge. When you are talking about Gazprom, you are talking about a company that is absolutely massive. It is one of the largest companies in the entire world and it makes up 8 percent of Russian GDP all by itself. It holds 18 percent of the natural gas reserves of the entire planet, and it is also a very large oil producer. So for Gazprom to make a move like this is extremely significant.

When Barack Obama decided to slap some meaningless economic sanctions on Russia a while back, he probably figured that the world would forget about them after a few news cycles.

But the Russians do not forget, and they certainly do not forgive.

At this point the Russians are turning their back on the United States, and that includes the U.S. dollar.

http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/russia-is-doing-it-russia-is-actually-abandoning-the-dollar
Take that Uncle Sam

[Balthazar]

Unfortunately, EUR is a toilet paper just like USD. So it's a choice between two scam currencies. 

[bryant.coleman]

Unfortunately, EUR is a toilet paper just like USD. So it's a choice between two scam currencies. 

If the main purpose is to weaken the US Dollar, then doing the trade in Euro is a good option. Also, a large part of the Russian trade is done with the European Union nations (especially Germany). I don't see the advantage of using US Dollar here.

[deisik]

Unfortunately, EUR is a toilet paper just like USD. So it's a choice between two scam currencies. 

If the main purpose is to weaken the US Dollar, then doing the trade in Euro is a good option. Also, a large part of the Russian trade is done with the European Union nations (especially Germany). I don't see the advantage of using US Dollar here.

If we look at the recent official data for 2013 (in Russian here), we will see that the five main trading partners in the foreign trade with Russia are China 10.6 (10.5% in 2012), the Netherlands 9.2% (10.0%), Germany 8.9% (8.8%), Italy 6.4% (5.2%) and Ukraine 4.6% (5.5%). So the problem with changing the trade currency from dollar to euro actually boils down to persuading China to accept euros instead of dollars...

[bryant.coleman]

So the problem with changing the trade currency from dollar to euro actually boils down to persuading China to accept euros instead of dollars...

I don't know much about the general trade. But it has been already decided (I had posted this in some other thread a few days ago) that the gas exports to China will be paid in RenMinBi. Russia has nothing to gain from this, but still it will weaken the US Dollar.

[deisik]

So the problem with changing the trade currency from dollar to euro actually boils down to persuading China to accept euros instead of dollars...

I don't know much about the general trade. But it has been already decided (I had posted this in some other thread a few days ago) that the gas exports to Russia will be paid in RenMinBi. Russia has nothing to gain from this, but still it will weaken the US Dollar.

Yeah, I've heard rumors, but what is that RenMinBi? Not that I'm actually curious about what it is at the moment, but rather that it is not dollar somewhere underneath in the train of transactions with it...

And you probably meant gas exports to China?

[bryant.coleman]

Yeah, I've heard rumors, but what is that RenMinBi?

The Chinese Yuan is known in the international market as RenMinBi. The Chinese want to elevate it as an international currency for trade, but so far they have found few willing adopters (other than Zimbabwe and Myanmar). 

[deisik]

Yeah, I've heard rumors, but what is that RenMinBi?

The Chinese Yuan is known in the international market as RenMinBi. The Chinese want to elevate it as an international currency for trade, but so far they have found few willing adopters (other than Zimbabwe and Myanmar). 

So the dollar nominated international trade market seems to be breaking down to local currency markets. But the question remains, i.e. is this the decay and fall of the dollar as we know it or is it an evolution of it into something more (more uncanny and horrific)?

[niothor]

So the problem with changing the trade currency from dollar to euro actually boils down to persuading China to accept euros instead of dollars...

I don't know much about the general trade. But it has been already decided (I had posted this in some other thread a few days ago) that the gas exports to Russia will be paid in RenMinBi. Russia has nothing to gain from this, but still it will weaken the US Dollar.

Yeah, I've heard rumors, but what is that RenMinBi? Not that I'm actually curious about what it is at the moment, but rather that it is not dollar somewhere underneath in the train of transactions with it...

And you probably meant gas exports to China?

Probably the only currency in the world that is manipulated by it's government in terms of value more that the us dollar.

Although the Chinese have not pegged the cny to the dollars for the last decade they still force it to float only on a narrow margin.

[bryant.coleman]

No progress in sight.

Ukraine’s demand for gas price below $385 leads to political deadlock - Putin

http://rt.com/business/165332-putin-gas-ukraine-discount

Ukraine wants gas for free. That is the problem. Why should they be given gas at throw away prices, when friendly nations (such as Germany) are paying as much as $420 per 1,000 cubic meter?

[deisik]

No progress in sight.

Ukraine’s demand for gas price below $385 leads to political deadlock - Putin

http://rt.com/business/165332-putin-gas-ukraine-discount

Ukraine wants gas for free. That is the problem. Why should they be given gas at throw away prices, when friendly nations (such as Germany) are paying as much as $420 per 1,000 cubic meter?

Friendly nations?! Am I missing something? Didn't this (Germany) nation in the person of Frau Merkel just recently show firm support for sanctions against Russia?

Surely not what you would expect from a friend...

[niothor]

No progress in sight.

Ukraine’s demand for gas price below $385 leads to political deadlock - Putin

http://rt.com/business/165332-putin-gas-ukraine-discount

Ukraine wants gas for free. That is the problem. Why should they be given gas at throw away prices, when friendly nations (such as Germany) are paying as much as $420 per 1,000 cubic meter?

Friendly nations?! Am I missing something? Didn't this (Germany) nation in the person of Frau Merkel just recently show firm support for sanctions against Russia?

Surely not what you would expect from a friend...

That's one good laugh .
Bryan calling Germany a friendly country .

But now seriously , the title is misleading...

Russia is ready to give Ukraine this $100 discount for one year, Russia’s Energy Minister Aleksandr Novak said at the meeting.

They are offering a one year discount after which the price will be 485$.

Also , I would love how Russians are backing down on threatening to cut the gas if the payments are not made.

Novak said that Moscow is willing to recalculate Kiev’s massive gas debts for April and May, which will bump their arrears down from $2.353 billion instead of $3 billion. This sum must be paid in full by June 26, Novak said. The first tranche payment of $500 million is due June 16, and the remaining $1.8 billion is due on June 26.

The first deadline was 1st of June for the whole debt.
Now the debt is reduced by 25% and the deadline extended  by one month for a first tranche..

In the end they won't see a penny

[deisik]

Also , I would love how Russians are backing down on threatening to cut the gas if the payments are not made.

Novak said that Moscow is willing to recalculate Kiev’s massive gas debts for April and May, which will bump their arrears down from $2.353 billion instead of $3 billion. This sum must be paid in full by June 26, Novak said. The first tranche payment of $500 million is due June 16, and the remaining $1.8 billion is due on June 26.

The first deadline was 1st of June for the whole debt.
Now the debt is reduced by 25% and the deadline extended  by one month for a first tranche..

In the end they won't see a penny

I would suggest that Russian citizens stop paying for gas too until and unless Ukraine pays down all its debts (or goes bankrupt)...

[niothor]

Also , I would love how Russians are backing down on threatening to cut the gas if the payments are not made.

Novak said that Moscow is willing to recalculate Kiev’s massive gas debts for April and May, which will bump their arrears down from $2.353 billion instead of $3 billion. This sum must be paid in full by June 26, Novak said. The first tranche payment of $500 million is due June 16, and the remaining $1.8 billion is due on June 26.

The first deadline was 1st of June for the whole debt.
Now the debt is reduced by 25% and the deadline extended  by one month for a first tranche..

In the end they won't see a penny

I would suggest that Russian citizens stop paying for gas too until and unless Ukraine pays down all its debts...

Do that:).

Let me see a boycott for a government controlled company because of the actions of the government.
And that in Russia.

Wonder how protesters will be treated there...

[bryant.coleman]

Friendly nations?! Am I missing something? Didn't this (Germany) nation in the person of Frau Merkel just recently show firm support for sanctions against Russia?
Surely not what you would expect from a friend...

Frau Merkel doesn't have anything against Russia. Some of the top German officials actually voiced their opposition to the US-backed sanctions. Even Merkel agreed to those sanctions only half-heartedly (under pressure from the US), as she knew that any such sanction would do more harm to the German companies than to the Russian ones.

In the European Union, Germany is one of Russia's best friends. Also, check the German public opinion polls on the Ukraine crisis.

Here, an example of the anti-sanction mood prevailing in Germany:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/germany-to-play-central-but-expensive-role-in-sanctions-against-russia-a-959019.html

Another one:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10820180/Ukraine-crisis-Russia-sanctions-would-hurt-Germanys-growth.html

[deisik]

Friendly nations?! Am I missing something? Didn't this (Germany) nation in the person of Frau Merkel just recently show firm support for sanctions against Russia?
Surely not what you would expect from a friend...

Frau Merkel doesn't have anything against Russia. Some of the top German officials actually voiced their opposition to the US-backed sanctions. Even Merkel agreed to those sanctions only half-heartedly (under pressure from the US), as she knew that any such sanction would do more harm to the German companies than to the Russian ones.

In the European Union, Germany is one of Russia's best friends. Also, check the German public opinion polls on the Ukraine crisis.

Here, an example of the anti-sanction mood prevailing in Germany:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/germany-to-play-central-but-expensive-role-in-sanctions-against-russia-a-959019.html

Another one:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10820180/Ukraine-crisis-Russia-sanctions-would-hurt-Germanys-growth.html

I heard her say that Russia should pay for its actions in respect to Ukraine. Actually, Germany supported sanctions, that's what ultimately matters. You may say that it is less hostile towards Russia and I would probably agree with that, but to say that it is friendly is like swearing black is white... 

Friends are what friends do, not what they say!

[spazzdla]

Does Ukraine has any choice? It looks like Putin is holding the strings.

This...

NO we will not pay more!

Okay no gas..

........... Well pay more ............