Ukraine rejects Russia Gazprom gas price hike

[deisik]

According to your logic, everyone should have stopped financing the U.S. national debt many years ago!

There's no comparison between the US and Ukraine. Besides, all the Ukrainian government would really need to guarantee would be the instantaneous mass of gas in the pipes, or some short-term buffer, not the entire contract!

It doesn't actually matter how this can be done from a technological point of view. You still didn't answer the question where Ukraine will get money from to buy all this volume of gas. Those with money turn out to be more inclined to pay Gasprom, not Ukraine!

The same way everyone else does it: issue some bonds or other paper contracts, like a new currency for big investors

As the irony would have it, the last purchaser of Ukrainian eurobonds (under Yanukovich) was Russia (they bought around $3 billion worth in December, 2013, as part of the $15 billion bail-out)!

But now Russia has evidently backed off from the deal... So who's gonna be the next buyer of Ukrainian "papers"?

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[deisik]

Russia doesn't like the euro, but no-one outside of Russia seems to have very many roubles, except maybe Germany or France, so they're stuck in a difficult position.
In order to sell gas for hard cash, Russia would need to increase their trade with the European Union, importing far more European products, and striking trade deals where other countries increase their rouble reserves. However, that would annoy lots of industries and make Putin seriously unpopular.

Do you really think it is an issue that Russia should care about?

[bryant.coleman]

But now Russia has evidently backed off from the deal... So who's gonna be the next buyer of Ukrainian "papers"?

Germany, as usual. They have bailed out Greece and Cyprus. Now their turn has come to bail out Ukraine.  I am not very sure what the average German tax payer thinks about all this.

[deisik]

But now Russia has evidently backed off from the deal... So who's gonna be the next buyer of Ukrainian "papers"?

Germany, as usual. They have bailed out Greece and Cyprus. Now their turn has come to bail out Ukraine.   I am not very sure what the average German tax payer thinks about all this.

Now we see IMF (remember Argentina?) and their "economic hit men" prowling over Ukraine... Don't think it bodes well for this country!

[bryant.coleman]

Now we see IMF (remember Argentina?) and their "economic hit men" prowling over Ukraine... Don't think it bodes well for it!

IMF has no good intentions for Ukraine. What happened with Greece and Cyprus will repeat itself in Ukraine. In the end the pension payments and salaries will be cut, government employees will be fired from their jobs, the armed forces will be reduced to 1/10th of its actual strength, and the wealth will be concentrated in to the hands of a selected few.

[deisik]

Now we see IMF (remember Argentina?) and their "economic hit men" prowling over Ukraine... Don't think it bodes well for it!

IMF has no good intentions for Ukraine. What happened with Greece and Cyprus will repeat itself in Ukraine. In the end the pension payments and salaries will be cut, government employees will be fired from their jobs, the armed forces will be reduced to 1/10th of its actual strength, and the wealth will be concentrated in to the hands of a selected few.

Cyprus has ended decimating their banks depositors (well, many of them were Russians, lol). And Greece with the number of the unemployed never heard before...

[bryant.coleman]

Cyprus has ended with decimating their banks depositors (well, many of them were Russians, lol)...

Some of those people who lost their money were Russians, but reports indicate that the majority were Cypriot citizens. That measure has made Cyprus a pariah in front of the international business community. A large number of business units were closed down, and thousands of Cypriot citizens lost their jobs. Even the property market crashed.

[deisik]

Cyprus has ended with decimating their banks depositors (well, many of them were Russians, lol)...

Some of those people who lost their money were Russians, but reports indicate that the majority were Cypriot citizens. That measure has made Cyprus a pariah in front of the international business community. A large number of business units were closed down, and thousands of Cypriot citizens lost their jobs. Even the property market crashed.

I don't think it was Cyprus' own decision. The country is located on the outskirts of the European Union and was chosen as a "sacred victim" or "touchstone", if you please (there is a thread around here discussing if the EU Central bank could have taken such steps universally)...

[bryant.coleman]

I don't think it was Cyprus' own decision. The country is located on the outskirts of the European Union and was chosen as a "sacred victim" or "touchstone", if you please (there is a thread around here discussing if the EU Central bank could have taken such steps universally)...

The decision was taken by the European Union (especially the UK), who wanted to poke Russia. They thought that most of the deposits were owned by the Russians. However, the Cypriot ruling party was also supportive of the measure.

[Balthazar]

I don't think it was Cyprus' own decision. The country is located on the outskirts of the European Union and was chosen as a "sacred victim" or "touchstone", if you please (there is a thread around here discussing if the EU Central bank could have taken such steps universally)...

The decision was taken by the European Union (especially the UK), who wanted to poke Russia. They thought that most of the deposits were owned by the Russians. However, the Cypriot ruling party was also supportive of the measure.

And as the result, they've poked themselves. Dumb act of suicide just like actions of Bulgaria.

[deisik]

I don't think it was Cyprus' own decision. The country is located on the outskirts of the European Union and was chosen as a "sacred victim" or "touchstone", if you please (there is a thread around here discussing if the EU Central bank could have taken such steps universally)...

The decision was taken by the European Union (especially the UK), who wanted to poke Russia. They thought that most of the deposits were owned by the Russians. However, the Cypriot ruling party was also supportive of the measure.

And this decision turns out even more cynical if we recall that the United Kingdom is not even part of the Eurozone...

[bryant.coleman]

And as the result, they've poked themselves. Dumb act of suicide just like actions of Bulgaria.

What happened in Bulgaria is a bit more complex. The ruling Socialists actually supported the South Stream project. But since they don't have a majority in the parliament, they are dependent upon the ethnic Turkish party. The Turkish party is anti-Russian, and therefore wanted the government to drop the South Stream.

[deisik]

And as the result, they've poked themselves. Dumb act of suicide just like actions of Bulgaria.

What happened in Bulgaria is a bit more complex. The ruling Socialists actually supported the South Stream project. But since they don't have a majority in the parliament, they are dependent upon the ethnic Turkish party. The Turkish party is anti-Russian, and therefore wanted the government to drop the South Stream.

I don't deny that they (this Turkish party) might actually be anti-Russian, but I think they pursue more prosaic mercantile interests. Despite being anti-Russian, Turkey has the cheapest gas in Europe, and this might be the clue...

[bryant.coleman]

I don't deny that they (this Turkish party) might actually be anti-Russian, but I think they pursue more prosaic mercantile interests. Despite being anti-Russian, Turkey has the cheapest gas in Europe, and this might be the clue...

This party which I am referring here (Movement for Rights and Freedoms or DPS) is more pro-EU than pro-Turkey. Also, the leaders are corrupt to the core. They support the construction of the Azerbaijan-Europe pipeline (Trans Adriatic / Trans-Anatolian gas pipeline), through Turkey. The South Stream can be a competitor to this specific pipeline.

[bryant.coleman]

It seems like the Bulgarian government is divided on this issue.

South Stream gas project irreversible - Bulgaria’s Energy Minister

http://rt.com/business/164768-south-stream-bulgaria-russia

[mladen00]

And as the result, they've poked themselves. Dumb act of suicide just like actions of Bulgaria.

What happened in Bulgaria is a bit more complex. The ruling Socialists actually supported the South Stream project. But since they don't have a majority in the parliament, they are dependent upon the ethnic Turkish party. The Turkish party is anti-Russian, and therefore wanted the government to drop the South Stream.

I think Joe fuc**** Mcain and other senators put pressure on Bulgarian parliament

[bryant.coleman]

I think Joe fuc**** Mcain and other senators put pressure on Bulgarian parliament

Yes... the announcement came after the talks with US Senators. The Americans are currently promoting the Trans-Anatolian pipeline, which will export Azerbaijani gas to Ukraine. So they have real intentions to block the South Stream.

[niothor]

I think Joe fuc**** Mcain and other senators put pressure on Bulgarian parliament

Yes... the announcement came after the talks with US Senators. The Americans are currently promoting the Trans-Anatolian pipeline, which will export Azerbaijani gas to Ukraine. So they have real intentions to block the South Stream.

Just like the Russians have interest in the South Stream..

I don't see any major conspiracy there.
With russian puppets always threatening to cut the gas it's a normal move.
Look at 247 crypto , 20 of it's posts were "burn wood".

Do you feel like further dealing with those kind of people?

[deisik]

I think Joe fuc**** Mcain and other senators put pressure on Bulgarian parliament

Yes... the announcement came after the talks with US Senators. The Americans are currently promoting the Trans-Anatolian pipeline, which will export Azerbaijani gas to Ukraine. So they have real intentions to block the South Stream.

Just like the Russians have interest in the South Stream..

I don't see any major conspiracy there.
With russian puppets always threatening to cut the gas it's a normal move.
Look at 247 crypto , 20 of it's posts were "burn wood".

Do you feel like further dealing with those kind of people?

There is enough coal in Europe (Germany). The Nazis even managed to produce benzine from it (just like Apartheid did under embargo)...

[niothor]

I think Joe fuc**** Mcain and other senators put pressure on Bulgarian parliament

Yes... the announcement came after the talks with US Senators. The Americans are currently promoting the Trans-Anatolian pipeline, which will export Azerbaijani gas to Ukraine. So they have real intentions to block the South Stream.

Just like the Russians have interest in the South Stream..

I don't see any major conspiracy there.
With russian puppets always threatening to cut the gas it's a normal move.
Look at 247 crypto , 20 of it's posts were "burn wood".

Do you feel like further dealing with those kind of people?

There is enough coal in Europe (Germany). The Nazis even managed to produce benzine from it (just like Apartheid did under embargo)...

I think you referred to gasoline there:). As in both russian and romanian benzin is used for gasoline.

Cause benzine (petroleum ether) was used in ww2 germany for something totally different which I won't mention here. ;