deisik
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June 03, 2014, 04:51:28 PM |
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^^ More Russian propaganda.
Stolen gas is accounted for, in at least 2 ways:
1) Debt, which Russia requires the Ukraine to pay off later, with interest.
2) Adjusted pricing.
A third option could be tit-for-tat theft or confiscation. For example, Russia annexing Crimea. I guess that that would make all the accounts even, don't you agree?
Russia didn't annex Crimea, get your facts straight...  Oh I'm sorry, they "peacefully reclaimed it", and the tanks and submarines were just plastic props. Russia didn't reclaim it. Neither peacefully nor forcibly. After a coup d'etat in Kiev, Crimea declared independence from Ukraine (after all, Crimea was an autonomous republic), and then held a referendum on accession to Russia. You may like it or not, you may agree or disagree with this, but de jure you can't blame Russia of annexing or reclaiming Crimea... |
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Nemo1024
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June 03, 2014, 04:51:40 PM
Last edit: June 03, 2014, 05:04:41 PM by Nemo1024 |
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To take a pause from blablahblah trolling (because he insists on going in circles over the issues that already were addressed on multiple occasions)...
Europe seems to be willing to shoot itself in the foot: European Commission proposes to temporarily halt construction of the South Stream: http://ria.ru/economy/20140603/1010507243.htmlIn English: Gazprom ready to complete South Stream without international financehttp://rt.com/business/163360-gazprom-construct-south-stream/They are pushing Bulgarians to stop the construction until all the documents have been revised to be in accordance with EU directives. Bulgarian Energy Minister Dragomir Stoynev complained that his country "remains hostage to the conflict between Ukraine and Russia. It is unacceptable that some countries should benefit directly from Russian natural gas, while other should become hostages to this conflict,'' he added.
Bulgaria has a month to answer the EU concerns, with a team of EU experts expected to arrive in the country on June 13 to sort out remaining problems. Things are developing quickly: Bulgaria to build South Steam despite Commission warningshttp://www.euractiv.com/sections/energy/bulgaria-build-south-steam-despite-commission-warnings-302572
And EU already decided how much Russia will charge for the gas to Ukraine: Ukraine gas: EU Energy Commissioner says Russia will charge $350-$380http://rt.com/business/163212-ukraine-russia-gas-lawsuits/ |
“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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bryant.coleman (OP)
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June 03, 2014, 05:08:00 PM |
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Oh I'm sorry, they "peacefully reclaimed it", and the tanks and submarines were just plastic props.
As per the treaty with Russia, Russian forces were already stationed in Sevastopol. They moved in to the Sevastopol airport and took control of it, as the security situation was worsening. There were no tanks and submarines outside these areas. |
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deisik
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June 03, 2014, 05:36:46 PM |
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Oh I'm sorry, they "peacefully reclaimed it", and the tanks and submarines were just plastic props.
As per the treaty with Russia, Russian forces were already stationed in Sevastopol. They moved in to the Sevastopol airport and took control of it, as the security situation was worsening. There were no tanks and submarines outside these areas. If I'm not mistaken, Russia has only one submarine in the whole Black Sea, lol... |
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deisik
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June 03, 2014, 06:13:40 PM |
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To take a pause from blablahblah trolling (because he insists on going in circles over the issues that already were addressed on multiple occasions)...
You and the other paid Russian spammers are the ones who are trolling. Why do you keep spreading propaganda? Don't you trust that other people will be intelligent enough to do their own research? Oh I'm sorry, they "peacefully reclaimed it", and the tanks and submarines were just plastic props.
As per the treaty with Russia, Russian forces were already stationed in Sevastopol. They moved in to the Sevastopol airport and took control of it, as the security situation was worsening. There were no tanks and submarines outside these areas. You guys can't even get your own story straight. If Crimea was already an autonomous republic, then why the sudden urgency to join Russia? It was an autonomous republic in Ukraine (autonomy doesn't mean true independence). And its population was pro-Russian, that's why they decided to join Russia. The factor of urgency is irrelevant to the legitimacy of accession, but is very well explained by what is happening in Donetsk and Lugansk regions right now... |
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needbmw
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June 03, 2014, 06:32:04 PM |
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If Crimea was already an autonomous republic, then why the sudden urgency to join Russia?
I think they pray for Russia listening to terrible news from Lugansk, Slaviansk, Kramatorsk, etc. |
NO PSAKING!
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deisik
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June 03, 2014, 06:33:14 PM |
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It was an autonomous republic in Ukraine. And its population was pro-Russian, that's why they decided to join Russia. The factor of urgency is irrelevant to the legitimacy of accession, but is very well explained by what is happening in Donetsk and Lugansk regions right now... Obviously the armed Russian troops, who were imported from Russia, were "pro-Russian", but what about the Tatar minority? Pro-russian was the total majority of Crimea population, Russian troops were not "imported from Russia", they were there before Crimea declared independence... What exactly do you want to hear about the Tatar minority in Crimea? The Crimean dialect of the Tatar language has become one of the three official "state" languages there... |
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deisik
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June 03, 2014, 06:35:00 PM |
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is very well explained by what is happening in Donetsk and Lugansk regions right now. So the commanders in the region were also victims of the same information war that people like you are trying to spread. You cannot claim to know what is really happening in Donetsk or Lugansk right now, unless you are there! I'm not there but this doesn't in the least mean that I can't know what's happening there... |
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deisik
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June 03, 2014, 06:38:36 PM |
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It was an autonomous republic in Ukraine ( autonomy doesn't mean true independence). And its population was pro-Russian, that's why they decided to join Russia. The factor of urgency is irrelevant to the legitimacy of accession, but is very well explained by what is happening in Donetsk and Lugansk regions right now... Make up your mind! If they weren't truly independent, then they had no right to make that sort of decision to join Russia I have already explained what's happened, why should I repeat myself?  But nevertheless, you seem to not even understand that according to your own logic there is no way to become independent (unless it is given as a gift from the sovereign). What about the 4th of July and the Independence Day, lol?  |
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bryant.coleman (OP)
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June 04, 2014, 03:37:15 AM |
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Obviously the armed Russian troops, who were imported from Russia, were "pro-Russian", but what about the Tatar minority?
The Tatars were around 10% of the population, while the remaining 90% were Slavs. In a normal scenario, 90% of the population decides about the future of a territory in which they are living. May be in your place it will be the opposite. |
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deisik
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June 04, 2014, 07:07:38 AM |
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Obviously the armed Russian troops, who were imported from Russia, were "pro-Russian", but what about the Tatar minority?
The Tatars were around 10% of the population, while the remaining 90% were Slavs. In a normal scenario, 90% of the population decides about the future of a territory in which they are living. May be in your place it will be the opposite. Actually, in 3 months of "occupation" Russia already made for them more than did Ukraine in 23 years. And to say that the Tatars in Crimea were pro-Ukrainian is a bit far fetched... |
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bryant.coleman (OP)
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June 04, 2014, 07:14:55 AM |
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Actually, in 3 months of "occupation" Russia already made for them more than did Ukraine in 23 years. And to say that the Tatars in Crimea were pro-Ukrainian is a bit far fetched... Some of the Tatars are clearly pro-Kiev and there are reasons for that. When Leonid Kravchuk imported them from Uzbekistan in 1992, they were allowed to squat on land which originally belonged to the ethnic Russian inhabitants. A large number of the Russians lost their land, driven away by the Tatars. Now the authorities has started to return those stolen lands back to their original owners. |
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deisik
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June 04, 2014, 08:31:54 AM |
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Actually, in 3 months of "occupation" Russia already made for them more than did Ukraine in 23 years. And to say that the Tatars in Crimea were pro-Ukrainian is a bit far fetched... Some of the Tatars are clearly pro-Kiev and there are reasons for that. When Leonid Kravchuk imported them from Uzbekistan in 1992, they were allowed to squat on land which originally belonged to the ethnic Russian inhabitants. A large number of the Russians lost their land, driven away by the Tatars. Now the authorities has started to return those stolen lands back to their original owners. I think that to send those trespassing Tatars back to Uzbekistan would be a right idea! Just kidding...  |
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deisik
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June 04, 2014, 10:04:50 AM |
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Actually, in 3 months of "occupation" Russia already made for them more than did Ukraine in 23 years. And to say that the Tatars in Crimea were pro-Ukrainian is a bit far fetched... Some of the Tatars are clearly pro-Kiev and there are reasons for that. When Leonid Kravchuk imported them from Uzbekistan in 1992, they were allowed to squat on land which originally belonged to the ethnic Russian inhabitants. A large number of the Russians lost their land, driven away by the Tatars. Now the authorities has started to return those stolen lands back to their original owners. Terry Pratchett, is that you?? Who is that Terry Pratchett and what is he famous for, excuse me?  |
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bryant.coleman (OP)
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June 04, 2014, 10:51:45 AM |
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living so close to the equator
Are you geographically challenged? I think that to send those trespassing Tatars back to Uzbekistan would be a right idea! Just kidding... They were not happy in Uzbekistan, and they are not happy in Crimea. They want the Crimean Republic to merge with Turkey. I would like them to GTFO to Turkey. |
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Nemo1024
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June 04, 2014, 10:55:24 AM |
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Actually, in 3 months of "occupation" Russia already made for them more than did Ukraine in 23 years. And to say that the Tatars in Crimea were pro-Ukrainian is a bit far fetched... Some of the Tatars are clearly pro-Kiev and there are reasons for that. When Leonid Kravchuk imported them from Uzbekistan in 1992, they were allowed to squat on land which originally belonged to the ethnic Russian inhabitants. A large number of the Russians lost their land, driven away by the Tatars. Now the authorities has started to return those stolen lands back to their original owners. Terry Pratchett, is that you?? Who is that Terry Pratchett and what is he famous for, excuse me? Sir Terry Pratchett is a famous English writer who started as investigative journalist. His is the author of the brilliant Discworld fantasy series, which are a satire on many aspects of our twisted crazy world. I fail, however, to see, what Sir Terry Pratchett has to do with the remark on Tatars. Was it a reference to the relations between dwarves and trolls and the subsequence Koom Valley accord, not recognised by the more orthodox/extrimist dwarves? |
“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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Nemo1024
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June 04, 2014, 11:24:15 AM |
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Mr. Coleman's revisionist history in general. Similar to the way that the inhabitants of a flat Earth believed in magic carpets and dragons, the Russians seem unaware that the Tatars have historic ties in various parts of Europe dating back 100s of years. There are even Tatar minorities who settled in Poland after they were freed from the slave trade.
Well, there is a reason why that period in European history is called for Tatar-Mongol Yoke. Nothing to revise there... |
“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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Nemo1024
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June 04, 2014, 04:37:16 PM |
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Gas comedy theatre continues: Ukraine in its negotiations with Russia demands that the clause prohibiting re-export of gas must be removed: http://itar-tass.com/ekonomika/1237724?utm_medium=rss20 |
“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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Skele
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June 04, 2014, 05:08:16 PM |
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I think the after coup government of Ukraine should stop bloodshed or face very harsh aftermath... They should note that killing of innocent civilians will not go without response...
And their foreign backers should know that this kind of governments are unacceptable... If they want unity in Ukraine they should respect all of people's demands
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