Ukraine rejects Russia Gazprom gas price hike

[deisik]

^^^ Hmmm.... good luck with that. Gazprom wants to recover $5 billion in gas payment from Naftogaz, and at the same time Naftogaz now want a payment of $6 billion in fictional claims from Gazprom.

No more "fictional" than the Russian propaganda that that it's a "debt". What court ruled on the matter?

Anyway... I seriously doubt the neutrality of the European courts, after they granted $50 billion to the criminal Khodorkovsky.

Oh I understand now, political opposition is a crime in Russia.
Why should anyone take your "doubts" seriously, when you keep defending Russian stupidity?

Khodorkovsky and his accomplices were involved in the murders of their competitors and opponents. For example, the assassination of Nefteyugansk's mayor Vladimir Petukhov by Yukos' chief security official Alexei Pichugin (now serving life sentence) in 1998 (on Khodorkovsky's birthday) and many other men who were posing a serious threat to the organization...

You believe that story?
How convenient for Putin that somebody else eliminated the competition. He didn't have to get his hands dirty at all...

What story? That many people were murdered which had been threatening Yukos position or had conflicts with Khodorkovsky? These people are dead and they were killed. Should I believe they are still alive or Putin killed them all to discredit Khodorkovsky at the time when he was not even a president (not sure about him being a prime-minister back then)?

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[Balthazar]

deisik
Don't bother, it's a clown speaking

For additional info see here.

[deisik]

^^^ Hmmm.... good luck with that. Gazprom wants to recover $5 billion in gas payment from Naftogaz, and at the same time Naftogaz now want a payment of $6 billion in fictional claims from Gazprom.

No more "fictional" than the Russian propaganda that that it's a "debt". What court ruled on the matter?

Anyway... I seriously doubt the neutrality of the European courts, after they granted $50 billion to the criminal Khodorkovsky.

Oh I understand now, political opposition is a crime in Russia.
Why should anyone take your "doubts" seriously, when you keep defending Russian stupidity?

Khodorkovsky and his accomplices were involved in the murders of their competitors and opponents. For example, the assassination of Nefteyugansk's mayor Vladimir Petukhov by Yukos' chief security official Alexei Pichugin (now serving life sentence) in 1998 (on Khodorkovsky's birthday) and many other men who were posing a serious threat to the organization...

You believe that story?
How convenient for Putin that somebody else eliminated the competition. He didn't have to get his hands dirty at all...

What story? That many people were murdered which had been threatening Yukos position or had conflicts with Khodorkovsky? These people are dead and they were killed. Should I believe they are still alive or Putin killed them all to discredit Khodorkovsky at the time when he was not even a president (not sure about him being a prime-minister back then)?

Where is your evidence? And why did Putin give a murderer a presidential pardon?

When your arguments about Ukrainian debt cannot stand scrutiny, you simply change the subject. Red Herring? Repetition? I'm not sure which technique you guys are using... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_techniques

Khodorkovsky was not a murderer, but his accomplices were (one of them has been initially sentenced to 24 years and later this sentence was changed to lifetime in prison). What evidence are you talking about, that these people were actually murdered?

I answered your post about Khodorkovsky and now you dare blame me of changing the subject? How old are you, 15 years or younger?

[deisik]

^^^ Hmmm.... good luck with that. Gazprom wants to recover $5 billion in gas payment from Naftogaz, and at the same time Naftogaz now want a payment of $6 billion in fictional claims from Gazprom.

No more "fictional" than the Russian propaganda that that it's a "debt". What court ruled on the matter?

Anyway... I seriously doubt the neutrality of the European courts, after they granted $50 billion to the criminal Khodorkovsky.

Oh I understand now, political opposition is a crime in Russia.
Why should anyone take your "doubts" seriously, when you keep defending Russian stupidity?

Khodorkovsky and his accomplices were involved in the murders of their competitors and opponents. For example, the assassination of Nefteyugansk's mayor Vladimir Petukhov by Yukos' chief security official Alexei Pichugin (now serving life sentence) in 1998 (on Khodorkovsky's birthday) and many other men who were posing a serious threat to the organization...

You believe that story?
How convenient for Putin that somebody else eliminated the competition. He didn't have to get his hands dirty at all...

What story? That many people were murdered which had been threatening Yukos position or had conflicts with Khodorkovsky? These people are dead and they were killed. Should I believe they are still alive or Putin killed them all to discredit Khodorkovsky at the time when he was not even a president (not sure about him being a prime-minister back then)?

Where is your evidence? And why did Putin give a murderer a presidential pardon?

When your arguments about Ukrainian debt cannot stand scrutiny, you simply change the subject. Red Herring? Repetition? I'm not sure which technique you guys are using... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_techniques

Khodorkovsky was not a murderer, but his accomplices were (one of them has been initially sentenced to 24 years and later this sentence was changed to lifetime in prison). What evidence are you talking about, that these people were actually murdered?

I answered your post about Khodorkovsky and now you dare blame me of changing the subject?

I simply provided the opportunity. Nobody forced you to engage.

Do you think that maybe Putin's accomplices also killed some people?

I feel you are going to change the subject... Are you running out of arguments about Ukrainian debt? 

[deisik]

I feel you are going to change the subject... Are you running out of arguments about Ukrainian debt? 

What's left to discuss? You state matter-of-factly that Ukraine owes Russia a debt, but it's all a blatant lie.

For there to be a debt, there must first be a lender, a borrower, and a non-coercive agreement between them. But what I see, is an abuser. Russia is the abuser, and they are using their overwhelming dominance and strength to rape Ukraine. And you dare to speak in terms of a 'debt' that the victim owes to you rapists?

When I speak of Russia attempting to drive the Ukrainians into debt slavery, and exploit them for endless cheap labour disguised as "trade agreements" with the Russian Federation, you keep ignoring it.

So why should I waste any more words on Russian internet scoundrels who more loyal to Putin and his scummy regime than his wife?

I'm afraid that you have been utterly misinformed about the opportunities for a debt to spring up. You don't necessarily need a lender and a borrower for "there to be a debt". Russia is not a lender, and Ukraine is not a borrower. Russia had been selling gas to Ukraine according to a contract signed between them. And Ukraine was a buyer, and if a buyer doesn't pay up, he becomes a debtor (without lending and borrowing involved). As simple as that

I guess you should be more precise about the terms you use in respect to their meaning...

[bryant.coleman]

Anyway... business goes on as usual for Gazprom.

Pipeline construction started at the Russia-China border:

http://www.oilandgastechnology.net/pipeline-news/gazprom-receives-first-pipes-project-supply-china-38bn-cubic-metres-natural-gas

Gazprom Neft starts drilling at Iraqi Kurdistan oil block

http://www.meed.com/sectors/oil-and-gas/oil-upstream/gazprom-neft-starts-drilling-at-iraqi-kurdistan-oil-block/3194344.article

[Nemo1024]

Anyway... business goes on as usual for Gazprom.

Pipeline construction started at the Russia-China border:

http://www.oilandgastechnology.net/pipeline-news/gazprom-receives-first-pipes-project-supply-china-38bn-cubic-metres-natural-gas

Gazprom Neft starts drilling at Iraqi Kurdistan oil block

http://www.meed.com/sectors/oil-and-gas/oil-upstream/gazprom-neft-starts-drilling-at-iraqi-kurdistan-oil-block/3194344.article

Great! In the meantime, Euroope continues on insisting shooting itself in the foot (or at least its southern countries, as Germany is well-supllied by North-Stream). Bulgaria freezes South Stream until EU decision.

[Balthazar]

Bulgaria freezes South Stream until EU decision.

Something strange here, I thought that Bulgaria is a sovereign republic.

[deisik]

Bulgaria freezes South Stream until EU decision.

Something strange here, I thought that Bulgaria is a sovereign republic.

Oh, really? They had been for too long either under a direct rule (for several centuries by Ottoman sultans) or under a protectorate (Russian Empire and then the Soviets, having been Germany's satellite in between). And now they are in the European Union...

[valvalis]

Ukraine play with the wrong bear LOL. Maybe Ukraine should stop using gas and start using vodka 

[kennyss]

[bryant.coleman]

What's left to discuss? You state matter-of-factly that Ukraine owes Russia a debt, but it's all a blatant lie.

As far as I know, no one in this world gives Liquefied Natural Gas or CNG for free. Ukraine was using Russian gas and therefore they have to pay the fees as per the market rates. 

[Balthazar]

What's left to discuss? You state matter-of-factly that Ukraine owes Russia a debt, but it's all a blatant lie.

Yeah, nothing to discuss here

[Nemo1024]

US, EU now allowed to buy Ukraine’s gas pipelines
http://rt.com/business/180388-gas-pipelines-eu-ukraine/

Ukraine’s parliament has passed a law that will allow foreign companies from the US and EU to co-manage Ukraine’s national gas transportation system (GTS) which has a value of around $25-35 billion, one of the largest in the world.

The motion, proposed by PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk, was only supported by 228 parliament members, just two more than the required 226 to adopt the bill. The first reading of the bill was approved on July 4.

I think the primary goal of the civil war is accomplished. Now on to the secondary goal of destabilising Russia.

[REDoctober]

US, EU now allowed to buy Ukraine’s gas pipelines
http://rt.com/business/180388-gas-pipelines-eu-ukraine/

Ukraine’s parliament has passed a law that will allow foreign companies from the US and EU to co-manage Ukraine’s national gas transportation system (GTS) which has a value of around $25-35 billion, one of the largest in the world.

The motion, proposed by PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk, was only supported by 228 parliament members, just two more than the required 226 to adopt the bill. The first reading of the bill was approved on July 4.

I think the primary goal of the civil war is accomplished.
Now on to the secondary goal of destabilising Russia.

Way ahead of you, Boss man.

We already HAVE assets on the ground:


https://i.imgur.com/7MGyx5n.jpg
ITAR-Tass: Gay orangutan couple reporting troop movements near Donetsk

[Nemo1024]

And in light of REDoctober (a quite telling name - do you desire a return of 1917 to plunge Russia back into chaos?), here is some antidote:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=740020.0

[REDoctober]

And in light of REDoctober (a quite telling name - do you desire a return of 1917 to plunge Russia back into chaos?), here is some antidote:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=740020.0

I chose the name in honor of the defense of the Red October steel works by

the 39th Guards motor rifle division during the Battle of Stalingrad.



The only ANTIDOTE I need, is one for RUSSIAN STORMTROOPING, preferably in a NON-suppository form.

[Nemo1024]

Ukraine (or at least people that matter in Ukraine) may not freeze this winter:

Ukraine and Slovakia plan to start reverse flow gas in September
http://rt.com/business/180392-ukraine-slovakia-reverse-gas-flow/

Ukrtransgaz, Ukraine’s national pipeline operator, has completed all the necessary construction to accept 27 million cubic meters of gas per day from Slovakia through 2019. The operations are due to start on September 1.

All technical aspects and negotiations have been agreed upon by Ukraine’s Uktransgaz and Slovakia’s Eustream AS, Ukraine’s state oil and gas company Naftogaz said on Wednesday.

Natural gas will flow from Slovakia to Uzhgorod, a town in western Ukraine. Though the natural gas will help Ukraine with its depleting natural gas reserves, the 27 million cubic meters is still only 1/4 of what Moscow used to send every day.

Deliveries from Slovakia could satisfy up to 20 percent of Ukraine’s natural gas demand, which in 2013 was 55 billion cubic meters.

However:

The concept of ‘reverse-flow’ means to re-exporting Russian gas delivered to Slovakia to Ukraine. Gazprom, the supplier, maintains this is illegal under existing contracts.

Ukraine is seeking reverse-flow gas because it can no longer import gas from Russia, which stopped non pre-payment gas deliveries in June, after Kiev had accumulated more than $5 billion in unpaid gas bills.

Now, this is more like it:

EC, Russia, Ukraine Agree to Hold Talks on Association Pact, Gas Supplies
http://en.ria.ru/politics/20140815/192018846/EC-Russia-Ukraine-Agree-to-Hold-Talks-on-Association-Pact-Gas.html

[Nemo1024]

Ouch:

'Buy firewood & coal': MP warns Ukrainians after US, EU get access to national gas pipes
http://rt.com/news/180512-ukrainian-mp-firewood-coal/

Nikolay Rudkovsky, an independent MP in Ukraine’s Verkhovna Rada, believes the law allowing 49 percent of Ukraine’s national gas transportation system (GTS) to be managed by foreign companies is a big mistake.

“People, my advice to you is: buy firewood and coal! After the Law on reforming the management system of the united gas transportation system of Ukraine (#4116) was passed today, our country has been left with almost no chances of staying with gas,” Rudkovsky said on Facebook, following the Rada session.

“Don’t the MPs understand that we are now guaranteed to have a winter with no heating?” he asked.

...

“We don’t get a single cubic meter of gas from Russia now. This law gives away Ukrainian gas transportation system to the US,” Rudkovsky had time to say, before his microphone was switched off, according to ITAR-TASS.

Turchinov accused the MP of lobbying for Russian interests.  

[bryant.coleman]

They steal gas from the Siberians, and send all the profits to Moscow.

Are you on weed? The Yamalo-Nenets and Khanty-Mansiy Provinces are home to the biggest natural gas fields in Russia. And the per capita income there is even higher than that of Moscow. BTW... how you will respond if I argue that the Americans steal oil from the Sioux Indians and send all the profits to Texaco, British Petroleum and Shell?