[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[5w00p]

[superresistant]

I like the discussion, especially fluffypony's thoughts on the utility of XMR being more important than mere speculation.
I have this thought:
Monero will be a seriously formidable currency when there are Monero forks (clones).

There are already two. They went nowhere

You thought they were just two ?

No, there are at least 8 clones :

QCN/FCN/Aeon/Duck/Dash/OEC/MCN/ORION

All DEAD in a matter of few weeks.

[smooth]

I like the discussion, especially fluffypony's thoughts on the utility of XMR being more important than mere speculation.
I have this thought:
Monero will be a seriously formidable currency when there are Monero forks (clones).

There are already two. They went nowhere

You thought they were just two ?

No, there are at least 8 clones :

QCN/FCN/Aeon/Duck/Dash/OEC/MCN/ORION

All DEAD in a matter of few weeks.

Two were cloned (well forked with minimal changes -- just parameters) off from XMR: QCN and AEON. The rest were cloned from other cryptonote coins, as far as I know. Dash certainly was (BCN). MCN was forked from FCN. It is possible some of the others were forks of XMR, but I'm not sure.

[slb]

The easiest way to find out about the forks:
https://github.com/amjuarez/bytecoin/network/members

[LucyLovesCrypto]

The easiest way to find out about the forks:
https://github.com/amjuarez/bytecoin/network/members

Thanks!

XMR remains the best:)

[smooth]

The easiest way to find out about the forks:
https://github.com/amjuarez/bytecoin/network/members

That is not accurate. It shows forks that were done automatically, but not others. For example AEON is clearly a Monero fork, as it includes features that originated in Monero such as the mnemonic seeds (also the AEON source has Monero Project copyright notices), but it doesn't show on the above list at all. Likewise Monero isn't shown, only the abandoned predecessor bitmonero.

[AnonCoinTwitter]

Any comments on this?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=745352.msg9878702#msg9878702

Any comment on the fluffyponyza SDC code review (XMR Core Team) on Reddit?

http://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/2pfmds/shadowcash_ring_signature_whitepaper_released_any/

"There's little substance in the code, the verifyRingSignature() method is trivially simple and isn't called anywhere else in that commit. Their proposed function, generateRingSignature(), doesn't exist and thus it's impossible to determine whether they've actually done anything of substance. The whitepaper is purposely vague in many of the important parts, and a review in conjunction with code is impossible, so we have to take it on the face of it...which is that NIZK + ring signatures + security + low space utilisation = impossible right now."

"That's the commit I'm referring to - it does some trivial ring signature verification and creates key images, but it doesn't actually use them in transaction, nor does the code exist to create a ring signature."

For the record I support both SDC and XMR. It would be great if SDC dev team could respond on the Reddit thread. Thanks!

His first comments have no substance, he said that without having checked https://github.com/SDCDev/shadowcoin/commit/317b9b1f5121ecde162fd8d37fbd587182c45fef?diff=unified

The only interesting comment is this one :

There's no NIZK stuff in there, at least not anything beyond what Monero's keyimages use (which is a very simple ZKP). I'm unfortunately failing to see what they've done beyond what is already in the CryptoNote whitepaper and implemented in Monero.

Even if what he says was true (nothing unique compared to CryptoNote), it would not be fair, because i don't remember any CryptoNote implementation on Bitcoin base  

If you look at the timestamps, Fluffy pony made those comments before shadowsend v2 was open source...

[fluffypony]

Any comments on this?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=745352.msg9878702#msg9878702

I already responded on that thread -

If you look at the timestamps, Fluffy pony made those comments before shadowsend v2 was open source...

Yep, that's correct. I made the first two comments with respect to commit 94bfb03. Thereafter (the following day) commit 317b9b1 was made and pushed to the repo, and subsequently pointed out to me. I reviewed that, and thus updated that thread with the additional comment.

Honestly, I don't really care to get into a this-coin-that-coin debate. Kudos to the dev(s) for actually putting in effort to implement a very simplified ring signature system. If they add bad utxo blacklisting and also provide a suitable fix for the chain reaction privacy reveal outlined in Monero Research Lab's MRL-0001 research bulletin they are well on their way to implementing one half of the two core privacy principles espoused in Monero's cryptography (that is to say, they would then be able to provide a measure of cryptographic untraceability, but not cryptographic unlinkability).

and -

If you look at the timestamps, Fluffy pony made those comments before shadowsend v2 was open source...

Busted...

Fudders gonna fud...Great chance to snatch up more SDC at these levels

Not sure if I'm misunderstanding Longenecker or everyone else is. My initial comments were made after reviewing 1 of the 2 commits to the "anon" branch, the 2nd commit didn't exist at the time. It would be impossible for me to have foreknowledge as to what would be contained in the commit, and any idiot can look at the first commit and also observe that it didn't contain generateRingSignature(), nor were the verification functions wired up. I'm certainly not "busted" or "fudding", and if that's anyone's takeaway from me making a clear observation then they need to seriously revisit that persecution complex of theirs.

[digicoin]

AEON will be delisted from Poloniex very soon. BCN will be the same

[GingerAle]

I'm definitely getting my family members a card with a mymonero word salad on em! 

[GingerAle]

hrm, whattaya think of this:

we approach sites that should obviously be using monero.

arrange so that for (X) months, they list their products at 1/2 price in monero, and monero "investors" cover the other half as a sort of promotion. (investors being us, or more specifically, whoever's capable of a 10k monero buy wall)

This came to me because I went out of my way to buy primecoin when I registered a domain name on dotbit.me (also emailed the dude and asked him if he'd take monero), because it cost me like 1$ in primecoin and the bitcoin price was 7$.

and we could just design the backend software to automatically pull from the promotion wallet.

benefit for the business: seemingly cheaper products increase sales
benefit for consumer: cheaper products
benefit for monero: 1. demand on the markets 2. businesses and users become aware of monero 3. once in place, its not like the business will take down the monero payment system

unfortunately, we'd probably have to design into this backend an immediate monero -> bitcoin exchange, so that these websites could use their existing bitpay setup. Hrm, actually, in general, that would be the killer app - a payment thingy that automatically exchanges for bitcoin, and then routes it through the bitpay system (or whatever the website is currently using)

and again, the "we" i am using is the queenly we, because "i can't code, I can't script, the only thing about me is the way I think....."

or this could all possibly exist in some fashion and I look like a total idiot.

[liteon]

I would like usage of Monero privacy...
Is there any index where can we see all what we can buy or pay online with Monero?

[Jungian]

I would like usage of Monero privacy...
Is there any index where can we see all what we can buy or pay online with Monero?

I don't know if there is actually something you can buy with Monero that is listed anywhere.

[GingerAle]

I would like usage of Monero privacy...
Is there any index where can we see all what we can buy or pay online with Monero?

I don't know if there is actually something you can buy with Monero that is listed anywhere.

which is why we should make an app to buy with monero, exchange for bitcoin, and plug that bitcoin into the vendors bitpay infrastructure. Then everyplace that accepts bitcoin can accept monero. No fancy whatsits and legal fandingos necessary.

(edited to add)
and i already came up with a name for this a couple pages up... Payero.

[osensei]

I would like usage of Monero privacy...
Is there any index where can we see all what we can buy or pay online with Monero?

Not much there yet, but here is the "Merchants and Marketplace" section from the official Monero forum:
https://forum.monero.cc/3/merchants-and-marketplace

[e-coinomist]

I don't know if there is actually something you can buy with Monero that is listed anywhere.

Bitcoin! You can buy Bitcoins using Monero ... that is actually a mood talking point.


The 1/2 price is overkill. On the other side the pure marketing effect for a company like Spreadshirt (Spreadshirt is an internet company offering an online platform for private individuals and commercial organizations to design, buy and sell creative and personalized apparel) could catch on.
Creating awareness for a service or product, the pure advertisement effect should be the only and sufficient motivation to work together with a company.

Spreadshirt really should offer christmas socks with some text entry field on front.


edit: oh, how about mollesting webpages (blogs) for putting up a "Donate some Monero" sticker on their frontpage? a simple addition in their webpage's DNS entry allows recieving tips from their readers, something argueably PayPal or similar can do, too. but remember Bitcoin was for some timespan usefull for recieving tips. same old road to go!
That ended when the greed, the hunger and the Gox famine kicked in.

[aerbax]

I would like usage of Monero privacy...
Is there any index where can we see all what we can buy or pay online with Monero?

Not much there yet, but here is the "Merchants and Marketplace" section from the official Monero forum:
https://forum.monero.cc/3/merchants-and-marketplace

Taking some of that data, I've put up a starter page on the wiki.

https://monerobase.com/Merchants

[generalizethis]

I'm definitely getting my family members a card with a mymonero word salad on em! 

me too, its very easy to gift monero now with the website.

Happy X-mras!

[Shrikez]

There seems to be a problem with 0.8.8.6 on one of my machines.

It seems to be unable to establish any connection with the outside world. 0.8.8.4 on the same PC worked well and I'm not aware of having changed anything to the network settings.

I used print_cn to show the connections and there don't seem to be any. What am I missing?
This is on a Win 8.1 Pro 64bit with 8GB.

I've got no such problems on my other computers with the rest of my XMR wallets. They are all running on win 7 64bit.

2014-Dec-19 09:07:55.870850 Starting...
2014-Dec-19 09:07:55.876851 bitmonero v0.8.8.6-release
2014-Dec-19 09:07:55.877850 Module folder: bitmonerod.exe
2014-Dec-19 09:07:55.880851 Initializing P2P server...
2014-Dec-19 09:23:40.873969 Binding on 0.0.0.0:18080
2014-Dec-19 09:23:40.874969 Net service bound to 0.0.0.0:18080
2014-Dec-19 09:23:40.875969 Attempting to add IGD port mapping.
2014-Dec-19 09:23:43.911141 UPnP device was found but not recoginzed as IGD.
2014-Dec-19 09:23:43.912142 P2P server initialized OK
2014-Dec-19 09:23:43.912142 Initializing protocol...
2014-Dec-19 09:23:43.912142 Protocol initialized OK
2014-Dec-19 09:23:43.912142 Initializing core RPC server...
2014-Dec-19 09:23:43.912142 Binding on 127.0.0.1:18081
2014-Dec-19 09:23:43.914142 Core RPC server initialized OK on port: 18081
2014-Dec-19 09:23:43.914142 Initializing core...
2014-Dec-19 09:23:43.916142 Loading blockchain...
2014-Dec-19 09:24:36.105130 Blockchain initialized. last block: 297522, d39.h18.
m32.s18 time ago, current difficulty: 1005607647
2014-Dec-19 09:38:40.552490 Core initialized OK
2014-Dec-19 09:38:40.553491 Starting core RPC server...
2014-Dec-19 09:38:40.554490 Run net_service loop( 2 threads)...
2014-Dec-19 09:38:40.555490 [SRV_MAIN]Core RPC server started ok
2014-Dec-19 09:38:40.557490 [SRV_MAIN]Starting P2P net loop...
2014-Dec-19 09:38:40.559490 [SRV_MAIN]Run net_service loop( 10 threads)...
2014-Dec-19 09:38:41.559552 [P2P7]
**********************************************************************
The daemon will start synchronizing with the network. It may take up to several
hours.

You can set the level of process detailization* through "set_log <level>" comman
d*, where <level> is between 0 (no details) and 4 (very verbose).

Use "help" command to see the list of available commands.

Note: in case you need to interrupt the process, use "exit" command. Otherwise,
the current progress won't be saved.
**********************************************************************
print_cn
2014-Dec-19 09:39:25.929087 Connections:
Remote Host              Peer id             Recv/Sent (inactive,sec) State
               Livetime(seconds)

print_cn
2014-Dec-19 09:50:34.520404 Connections:
Remote Host              Peer id             Recv/Sent (inactive,sec) State
               Livetime(seconds)

A set_log 4 gives me the following info:

set_log 4
2014-Dec-19 10:13:39.654726 [P2P8]Failed to connect to 54.216.81.72:18080, becau
se of timeout (5000)
2014-Dec-19 10:13:39.656700 [P2P8][sock 18446744073709551615] Socket destroyed w
ithout shutdown.
2014-Dec-19 10:13:39.657699 [P2P8][sock 18446744073709551615] Socket destroyed
2014-Dec-19 10:13:39.659698 [P2P8][0.0.0.0:0 OUT]~async_protocol_handler()
2014-Dec-19 10:13:39.660699 [P2P8][0.0.0.0:0 OUT]Connect failed to 54.216.81.72:
18080
2014-Dec-19 10:13:39.661698 [P2P8]Random connection index=14(x=18, max_index=20)

2014-Dec-19 10:13:39.662699 [P2P8]Random connection index=6(x=14, max_index=20)
2014-Dec-19 10:13:39.664699 [P2P8]Selected peer: 3871097311335872248 75.130.93.7
1:18080[white=1] last_seen: d39.h19.m20.s7
2014-Dec-19 10:13:39.665699 [P2P8]Connecting to 75.130.93.71:18080(white=1, last
_seen: d39.h19.m20.s7)...
2014-Dec-19 10:13:44.667986 [P2P8]Failed to connect to 75.130.93.71:18080, becau
se of timeout (5000)
2014-Dec-19 10:13:44.669986 [P2P8][sock 18446744073709551615] Socket destroyed w
ithout shutdown.
2014-Dec-19 10:13:44.670986 [P2P8][sock 18446744073709551615] Socket destroyed
2014-Dec-19 10:13:44.671985 [P2P8][0.0.0.0:0 OUT]~async_protocol_handler()
2014-Dec-19 10:13:44.674986 [P2P8][0.0.0.0:0 OUT]Connect failed to 75.130.93.71:
18080
2014-Dec-19 10:13:44.675987 [P2P8]Random connection index=8(x=15, max_index=20)
2014-Dec-19 10:13:44.677986 [P2P8]Selected peer: 8636639648022532547 54.74.76.39
:18080[white=1] last_seen: d39.h19.m20.s12
2014-Dec-19 10:13:44.678986 [P2P8]Connecting to 54.74.76.39:18080(white=1, last_
seen: d39.h19.m20.s12)...
2014-Dec-19 10:13:49.681273 [P2P8]Failed to connect to 54.74.76.39:18080, becaus
e of timeout (5000)
2014-Dec-19 10:13:49.682273 [P2P8][sock 18446744073709551615] Socket destroyed w
ithout shutdown.
2014-Dec-19 10:13:49.684273 [P2P8][sock 18446744073709551615] Socket destroyed
2014-Dec-19 10:13:49.685273 [P2P8][0.0.0.0:0 OUT]~async_protocol_handler()
2014-Dec-19 10:13:49.687273 [P2P8][0.0.0.0:0 OUT]Connect failed to 54.74.76.39:1
8080
2014-Dec-19 10:13:49.688273 [P2P8]Random connection index=17(x=19, max_index=20)

2014-Dec-19 10:13:49.690274 [P2P8]Selected peer: 6440814414158728653 176.212.72.
122:18080[white=1] last_seen: d39.h19.m51.s32
2014-Dec-19 10:13:49.692274 [P2P8]Connecting to 176.212.72.122:18080(white=1, la
st_seen: d39.h19.m51.s32)...
2014-Dec-19 10:13:54.694587 [P2P8]Failed to connect to 176.212.72.122:18080, bec
ause of timeout (5000)

[argentinx]

probabily a firewall o antivirus block bitmonerod