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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4548436 times)
generalizethis
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December 04, 2014, 07:04:10 AM
 #17601

It'd be nice to hear from non-investors on the matter...

Several reasonable and competent cryptographic professionals have done so.  If you are unfamiliar with their opinions, and the merits thereof, you probably should not be an investor.


This is an ongoing process. Can you point me to a current discussion that takes into all the coins and their varying approaches on a day or week-to-week basis? I know where Monero stands, but other coins have changed their approaches, and like some other people, anonymity is the golden grail for me--so the most anonymous wins if two or more coins aren't equally anonymous.


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generalizethis
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December 04, 2014, 07:17:55 AM
 #17602

If you're a darknet operator, this isn't a dick measuring contest, it's the difference between jail time and freedom. It'd be nice to hear from non-investors on the matter and have a legitimate discussion on which coin(s) is anonymous and which one(s) is just claiming to be anonymous--neutral territory, of course.

That assumes (based on nothing as far as I can tell) an either-or structure to the question where one coin must "real anonymous" and one must be "fake anonymus".

Monero uses on-chain mixing and with stealth addresses and relies on cryptography. Darkcoin is off-chain mixing and relies on semi-trusted nodes to coordinate the mixing process (and soon for other features such as instant transactions). As such they each have a different set of different potential vulnerabilities. Against some hypothesized types of attacks one or the other or both or neither may be susceptible.

They both seem to be sincere efforts in terms of technology. That doesn't necessarily make them equal in terms of competence or quality or security or prospects for success but I don't see the need to use loaded words like "just claiming" in the discussion.



I was hoping using "coin(s)" hedged me from any naming of coins and being accused of attacking another project. My argument doesn't dismiss that two or more coins could be anonymous, nor that a coin can be more anonymous, but that there should be a public outing of coins that are not anonymous, and if one or more coins have superior anonymity features, that knowledge should be public. My guess is that anyone who wants to use a privacy coin doesn't want to have to test the coins themselves, but have this publicly tested the same way car manufacturers test sports cars: on a race track in front of a crowd with the best performing team winning. Now the last statement is a desire statement from a hypothetical dark operator who doesn't want to go to jail and should not be read as a proposal--I'm just trying to point out that the people who want anonymity have more riding on this than an investment.

I tend not to beat around the bush, so sorry if my original statement came across as confrontational and not inline with the spirit of forum.

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December 04, 2014, 07:31:07 AM
 #17603

anonymity is the golden grail for me--so the most anonymous wins if two or more coins aren't equally anonymous.

Let's say the ultimate anonymity was found and it had proofs that were 10 MB each and the network could handle one transaction per minute, that would be the winner for you?

Or someone forked Monero and the only change they made was increase some encryption parameter or mixing depth so it would be slightly "more anonymous" you'd favor that over Monero?

 Smiley
generalizethis
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December 04, 2014, 07:55:30 AM
Last edit: December 04, 2014, 08:51:43 AM by generalizethis
 #17604

anonymity is the golden grail for me--so the most anonymous wins if two or more coins aren't equally anonymous.

Let's say the ultimate anonymity was found and it had proofs that were 10 MB each and the network could handle one transaction per minute, that would be the winner for you?

Or someone forked Monero and the only change they made was increase some encryption parameter or mixing depth so it would be slightly "more anonymous" you'd favor that over Monero?

 Smiley

To quote Mary Queen of Scots, "Yes--CLLUGHGH"

Wish there was an emoticon that rolled along the screen and smiled ................. Grin

This is getting away from being a talk about Monero and becoming a talk about how the various coins stack-up, but it would be nice to see a forum dedicated to fleshing out the advantages and disadvantages to each coin without it turning into an investor he-said/she-said. And before anyone says, "Why don't you create it?" I don't have the credentials to make it work. You'd have to be very high on the bitcointalk totem pole to make it work and not have it burst into a shouting match between investors.

And yes, anonymity, I see your point on that different coins for different goals.

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December 04, 2014, 09:44:46 AM
 #17605

I just saw this on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2o5ghz/blockchaininfo_becomes_the_second_website_after/

I think its a good idea Monero get this certificate for mymonero and have it running on a Tor network, I know Tor is not perfect but still very used.

osensei already quoted my response - you can read the discussion on that thread for more details as to why it's pointless. We will sort out Tor connectivity for MyMonero, but an SSL cert is a waste of effort.

Hilariously, Blockchain.info are only *now* turning on HSTS and similar, which should have been on from the get-go.

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December 04, 2014, 11:55:56 AM
 #17606

This is an ongoing process. Can you point me to a current discussion that takes into all the coins and their varying approaches on a day or week-to-week basis? I know where Monero stands, but other coins have changed their approaches, and like some other people, anonymity is the golden grail for me--so the most anonymous wins if two or more coins aren't equally anonymous.
And that bugs me. I know that Monero stands mostly for that, and only for that. It equals Bitcoin in each and every aspect when you just look back onto Bitcoin's timeline. Bitcoin once wanted to be mined on desktops by literally everybody and their wifes, reaching out onto the internet and these myriads of participating online people.
Was anonymous internet money, once upon a time.

What is left of that now? Recently even the Bitcoin hashrate and difficulty declined, people asking if a big mining cartel was shut down (Butterflylabs was supposed to run a huuuge collocation, funded from customer's moneh  Wink ). Mining is centralised, there are some big cartels and perhaps a slightly bigger number of mining pools. P2pool practically never gained ground (how about XMR p2pool ?). If you tell people you just bought ASICS they do give you pityfull looks.

This coin is not changing the approach so how could it change the game?

Totally exspecting Monero to be what Bitcoin is today in some years. And I dont mean that it will reach somewhat 300$ a coin, which it may or may not reach in value. Instead pointing out that Monero will "just be like Bitcoin" and somehow I doubt that will be enough for the holy grail (it isn't "golden" you infidel  Tongue) of crypto, the "mass adoption". If we are honest with ourselfes, goals, targets than it isn't merely about value, it is all about adoption.
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December 04, 2014, 12:00:06 PM
 #17607

Quote
Instead pointing out that Monero will "just be like Bitcoin" and somehow I doubt that will be enough for the holy grail (it isn't "golden" you infidel  Tongue) of crypto, the "mass adoption". If we are honest with ourselfes, goals, targets than it isn't merely about value, it is all about adoption.


We never said it will just be like Bitcoin.
I think we already stated multiple times that anonymity won't be the only point of Monero, but its a must have.

Mining decentralisation is one of the things that will be worked on for sure.


Quote
If you're a darknet operator, this isn't a dick measuring contest, it's the difference between jail time and freedom. It'd be nice to hear from non-investors on the matter and have a legitimate discussion on which coin(s) is anonymous and which one(s) is just claiming to be anonymous--neutral territory, of course.

If you want opinions from neutral people who have no hedge in monero, maybe read the post from gmaxwell (nullc): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7765455
Or Andytoshis post on stackexchange: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/29471/is-there-any-true-anonymous-cryptocurrencies

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December 04, 2014, 12:14:27 PM
 #17608

P2pool practically never gained ground (how about XMR p2pool ?)

Isn't this a huge contradiction?

Why would XMR p2pool end up better than BTC p2pool? Serious question.

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December 04, 2014, 12:57:52 PM
 #17609

I just saw this on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2o5ghz/blockchaininfo_becomes_the_second_website_after/

I think its a good idea Monero get this certificate for mymonero and have it running on a Tor network, I know Tor is not perfect but still very used.

osensei already quoted my response - you can read the discussion on that thread for more details as to why it's pointless. We will sort out Tor connectivity for MyMonero, but an SSL cert is a waste of effort.

Hilariously, Blockchain.info are only *now* turning on HSTS and similar, which should have been on from the get-go.

Its very reassuring to know this was already looked into, I really like this project.
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December 04, 2014, 02:33:48 PM
 #17610

Hello folks,

are there any news regarding 0.8.8.5 ?

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December 04, 2014, 02:38:55 PM
 #17611

P2pool practically never gained ground (how about XMR p2pool ?)

Isn't this a huge contradiction?

Why would XMR p2pool end up better than BTC p2pool? Serious question.



p2pool was very very poorly implemented.  A quality implementation would be an enabling factor for success, and unprecedented.

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.  Give a man a Poisson distribution and he eats at random times independent of one another, at a constant known rate.
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December 04, 2014, 03:02:11 PM
 #17612

Hello folks,

are there any news regarding 0.8.8.5 ?

It's tagged. Small problem with windows build IIRC.
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December 04, 2014, 04:29:42 PM
 #17613

I wish there was the mandatory upgrade tag only when there was a new upgrade. Otherwise, people get used to it and dont bother to check anymore.
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December 04, 2014, 05:30:23 PM
 #17614

Hello folks,

are there any news regarding 0.8.8.5 ?

We've gotten it down to an entropy issue on Windows not being handled correctly (and thus exiting completely) - it's a breaking issue, as it causes an exit on startup, but at least we've figured out the where and why:)

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December 04, 2014, 07:01:43 PM
 #17615

Hello folks,

are there any news regarding 0.8.8.5 ?

We've gotten it down to an entropy issue on Windows not being handled correctly (and thus exiting completely) - it's a breaking issue, as it causes an exit on startup, but at least we've figured out the where and why:)

I presume the entropy has something to do with a RNG being used?

Thanks for the updates.

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December 04, 2014, 08:14:25 PM
 #17616

People who troll for the price to go up/down usually have a sell/buy order in place that they are desperate to fill

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December 04, 2014, 08:57:20 PM
 #17617

People who troll for the price to go up/down usually have a sell/buy order in place that they are desperate to fill
Why would they do that here?
Price is gone down badly, that's real - no need to troll or lie - check any charts you want.
Long time it was about 2$ and now it just not to be free.

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December 04, 2014, 09:07:17 PM
 #17618

 [/quote]

If you want opinions from neutral people who have no hedge in monero, maybe read the post from gmaxwell (nullc): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7765455
Or Andytoshis post on stackexchange: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/29471/is-there-any-true-anonymous-cryptocurrencies

[/quote]

Thanks, Othe, much appreciated.

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December 04, 2014, 10:43:59 PM
 #17619

Hello folks,

are there any news regarding 0.8.8.5 ?

We've gotten it down to an entropy issue on Windows not being handled correctly (and thus exiting completely) - it's a breaking issue, as it causes an exit on startup, but at least we've figured out the where and why:)

I presume the entropy has something to do with a RNG being used?

Thanks for the updates.

Yes, but it's the entropy used by libunbound for DNS queries (needing DNS seeds on startup and/or MoneroPulse DNS checkpointing would trigger it). We've just pushed a patch in, everything seems to work, going to do a little more testing to be 100% sure and then we'll re-tag and release tomorrow:)

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December 04, 2014, 11:12:54 PM
 #17620

Is anyone in team working on Monero usage online?
I mean, I wanna buy a domain name with Monero, I wanna pay hosting with Monero, I want to buy a phone with Monero ... dating, gambling... so many options.
Monero is very good alt coin, but if there is no usage, value is equal to zero.
Only mine and sell or just keep? Why?

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