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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4548056 times)
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December 09, 2014, 12:26:35 AM
 #17841

Just to spread the good news... even though its not big news, its big to me.

I successfully have accumulated 1 XMR by mining with my own Xeon 771-775 sticker-hacked ebay-built rigs on monerohash... after having learned enough linux (or copy and pasting code into terminals... can't tell you how many times I've killed a program by ctrl-c'ing in a damn terminal... btw, thank you all you nice linux people for putting terminal code on the interwebs so I can just copy-paste.. or copy-shift-insert, as the case may be).

and then to see it pop up on my wallet as my client was catching up to the network.

very satisfying. Yay. My very first self-mined cryptocurrency.

now if I could only snipe some 750 ti's.

Welcome, though you're kind'a late...
Last months was harder to mine then now. Difficulty is at about Jully rate. And not that much over the end of May rate when i started mining.

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December 09, 2014, 12:37:12 AM
 #17842

I think you're not getting it - you don't adopt a kid if you don't have time to feed it and take care of it

Mining is not a adopting a kid, it is running a computer. Approached in a low-maintenance manner, it can be very similar to running a file server that doesn't require much attention for months or years.

The break even electricity rate for Monero GPU mining is not even that low (haven't worked it out recently but maybe 10 cents/kwh). Yes I cringe when I see people posting about how "the difficulty is too damn high" because mining isn't profitable for them at 30 eurocents/kwh, but in locations with low rates you will still be profitable or accumulate coins at a small loss with little to no maintenance effort.

Very true, it's not - and I'm not saying people CANNOT mine in an extremely low maintenance manner, I'm saying if they're going to do that, they may as well take some cash out of their wallet, burn a small percent, and use the rest to buy XMR, because that's basically what they're doing.

Virgin coin premium
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December 09, 2014, 12:42:11 AM
 #17843

I think you're not getting it - you don't adopt a kid if you don't have time to feed it and take care of it

Mining is not a adopting a kid, it is running a computer. Approached in a low-maintenance manner, it can be very similar to running a file server that doesn't require much attention for months or years.

The break even electricity rate for Monero GPU mining is not even that low (haven't worked it out recently but maybe 10 cents/kwh). Yes I cringe when I see people posting about how "the difficulty is too damn high" because mining isn't profitable for them at 30 eurocents/kwh, but in locations with low rates you will still be profitable or accumulate coins at a small loss with little to no maintenance effort.

Very true, it's not - and I'm not saying people CANNOT mine in an extremely low maintenance manner, I'm saying if they're going to do that, they may as well take some cash out of their wallet, burn a small percent, and use the rest to buy XMR, because that's basically what they're doing.

You are assuming it is losing money, which it isn't always. That depends on electricity costs.

Buying monero with cash is itself inconvenient. First you have to turn it into BTC and then trade it for XMR, both at fluctuating rates, both using somewhat flaky intermediaries. Or you can try to find someone with whom to make a direct trade, but with the coin being small that is hard to do. (Even with BTC this isn't always easy.) So even at a small loss low-maintenance mining might be easier.

xulescu: There shouldn't be a virgin coin premium for monero if our beliefs about fungibility are correct. If not, then the value proposition for monero is questionable.

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December 09, 2014, 01:00:44 AM
 #17844

I think you're not getting it - you don't adopt a kid if you don't have time to feed it and take care of it

Mining is not a adopting a kid, it is running a computer. Approached in a low-maintenance manner, it can be very similar to running a file server that doesn't require much attention for months or years.

The break even electricity rate for Monero GPU mining is not even that low (haven't worked it out recently but maybe 10 cents/kwh). Yes I cringe when I see people posting about how "the difficulty is too damn high" because mining isn't profitable for them at 30 eurocents/kwh, but in locations with low rates you will still be profitable or accumulate coins at a small loss with little to no maintenance effort.

Very true, it's not - and I'm not saying people CANNOT mine in an extremely low maintenance manner, I'm saying if they're going to do that, they may as well take some cash out of their wallet, burn a small percent, and use the rest to buy XMR, because that's basically what they're doing.

Not to get all righteous or anything, but there is also the possibility that if someone really likes a certain coin's technology, ideals, developer team, logo, etc., then maybe they just want to "support the network", even if that means mining at less than optimal profit or a slight loss.
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December 09, 2014, 01:13:49 AM
Last edit: December 09, 2014, 01:43:47 AM by David Latapie
 #17845

Or simply use Namecoin (NMC), http://namecoin.info/, to register a .bit domain. There is no need to use the ICANN/US Gov. root. Of course all of this creates a business opportunity for selling .bit, Namecoin, registrations for XMR.
I'm considering getting donate.david.latapie.bit (my internet presence is on david.latapie.name and .name is handled by VeriSign, which is a bad news). Speaking of that, would donate.david.latapie.onion make sense? Does "choosing between .bit and .onion" make sense?

Same here, there were some nice comments in it. I like this particular one from Gregory Maxwell about privacy:
I updated the FAQ entry "Q: Why is an anonymous currency important?"Thanks!

By the way: PR-wise, it is better to speak of privacy than of anonymity

Anonymity = drug
Privacy = family


This was my first mined crypto too Smiley It's a fulfilling feeling
Me in April 2014 with Monero. I still remember this surreal atmosphere - I felt like if I had been mining Bitcoin in 2010...

This is interesting.. has there been any talk of implementing transparency layers, and their potential function?
Yes there has been. Some of it is right in the original whitepaper, in terms of view keys and auditable addresses. We have also considered other methods of allowing for transparency on specific transactions. People want to be able to selectively prove payments on demand and generally open up to transparency in a controlled manner, without everything being linkable and traceable to the rest of their transactions.
Added to the FAQ.

dump doesnt matter now because xmr is becoming like bitcoin, a long period of low price is good for legitimacy of the coin if it ever reaches a lot higher in the future no one will be able to say that didn't bought xmr because it was too expensive, they can only say they didnt heard about monero or didnt believe on it.
I'm adding it to my list of quotes.



hey guys check this out. wow. no more having to copy and paste huge addresses! cool new feature in the 0.8.8.5, great work devs  Cheesy

go to https://openalias.org/ to learn how to make your own alias!
I updated the OP.
XMR:
Code:
address (openalias) donate.monero.cc
address (oldstyle) 46BeWrHpwXmHDpDEUmZBWZfoQpdc6HaERCNmx1pEYL2rAcuwufPN9rXHHtyUA4QVy66qeFQkn6sfK8aHYjA3jk3o1Bv16em
viewkey: e422831985c9205238ef84daf6805526c14d96fd7b059fe68c7ab98e495e5703
Thank you for mentionning it, saddam (and thank you for creating the ck.moneroaddress.org alias for crypto-kingdom, too).

Monero: the first crytocurrency to bring bank secrecy and net neutrality to the blockchain.HyperStake: pushing the limits of staking.
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December 09, 2014, 01:15:17 AM
 #17846

simple yet genuis... thanks for the missive guys!

Smart mining reminds me of what smooth wrote months ago (but even better, since no asking, although there should be an option for explicitely deactivate it, for fragile hardware or competing background programs like BOINC):
The vision here is a wallet that asks you when you want to install: "Do you want to devote some of you CPU power to help secure the network. You will be eligible to receive free coins as a reward (recommended)   [check box]." Get millions of users doing that and it will drive down the value of mining to where neither botnets nor professional/industrial miners will bother, and Satoshi's original vision of a true p2p currency will be realized.
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December 09, 2014, 01:40:17 AM
 #17847

Smart mining reminds me of what smooth wrote months ago (but even better, since no asking, although there should be an option for explicitely deactivate it, for fragile hardware or competing background programs like BOINC):
The vision here is a wallet that asks you when you want to install: "Do you want to devote some of you CPU power to help secure the network. You will be eligible to receive free coins as a reward (recommended)   [check box]." Get millions of users doing that and it will drive down the value of mining to where neither botnets nor professional/industrial miners will bother, and Satoshi's original vision of a true p2p currency will be realized.

I also suggested at one point turning it on by default and having a disable option be buried in a preferences system. I think I2P does something like that for relaying, and most other p2p systems do something similar one way or another. Bitcoin lost its way here, when the mining mining gold rush shifted the focus from principles of p2p.

Either way, the premise depends on it being well-behaved or people will turn it off, which defeats the purpose, so that is what the Smart Mining work is doing.

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December 09, 2014, 01:59:52 AM
 #17848

That is cool! How did you get your the saddam.moneroaddress.org alias you reference in your sig? Did you have to register the domain name moneroaddress.org yourself? Does this mean that to get our own openalias to use with Monero, we have to find domain name registrars that allow anonymous registration?
Instructions on the FAQ: What is openalias? How does it work?

Monero: the first crytocurrency to bring bank secrecy and net neutrality to the blockchain.HyperStake: pushing the limits of staking.
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December 09, 2014, 02:42:38 AM
 #17849

Quote
When opening your wallet with simplewallet for the first time with this update you will be prompted to choose a language for your mnemonic seed words, and you will be given a new 25 word mnemonic. You will always be able to restore from the old 24 word mnemonic seed, but it is of course recommended that you move to the newer, more robust mnemonic.

So for those of us who have taken the cold wallet approach of just keeping the "old" 24 word mnemonic:

1 - Should we still move to the "newer, more robust mnemonic."

2 - If yes, How do we do this?  Do we use the restore deterministic wallet in the new client, save and close out, and then when we reopen we will receive the 25 word mnemonic.  Or do we restore with an older version of simplewallet, and then open with the updated wallet?

Thanks in advance, and keep up the good work.\!
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December 09, 2014, 02:47:38 AM
 #17850

Quote
When opening your wallet with simplewallet for the first time with this update you will be prompted to choose a language for your mnemonic seed words, and you will be given a new 25 word mnemonic. You will always be able to restore from the old 24 word mnemonic seed, but it is of course recommended that you move to the newer, more robust mnemonic.

So for those of us who have taken the cold wallet approach of just keeping the "old" 24 word mnemonic:

1 - Should we still move to the "newer, more robust mnemonic."

2 - If yes, How do we do this?  Do we use the restore deterministic wallet in the new client, save and close out, and then when we reopen we will receive the 25 word mnemonic.  Or do we restore with an older version of simplewallet, and then open with the updated wallet?

Thanks in advance, and keep up the good work.\!

Not necessary to do right away but you can restore the old seed with the new wallet, you will then get a new seed
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December 09, 2014, 02:50:40 AM
 #17851

Still no update to the title of this thread with the date and version of (mandatory upgrade)

If you don't know where you're going any road will get you there
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December 09, 2014, 03:42:21 AM
 #17852

xulescu: There shouldn't be a virgin coin premium for monero if our beliefs about fungibility are correct. If not, then the value proposition for monero is questionable.

You are right, of course. I referred to the lack of counter-parties. You need to pay somebody to acquire XMR. You might prefer to pay your electricity utility over others.
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December 09, 2014, 03:44:30 AM
 #17853

xulescu: There shouldn't be a virgin coin premium for monero if our beliefs about fungibility are correct. If not, then the value proposition for monero is questionable.

You are right, of course. I referred to the lack of counter-parties.

Very true. That was something I included in my comments about mining, not sure if it was before or after yours. To buy instead of mine you are going to have to deal with exchanges or private parties, so issues of fraud risk and privacy arise that don't exist for mining (at least not solo mining)

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December 09, 2014, 05:01:03 AM
 #17854

I updated to 0.8.8.6

When starting simple wallet I was asked to chose a language for my wallet's seed.  English was the first choice so I entered 1 not noticing that 0 was for English so I got a seed in Spanish.  Whatever.  The problem is one of the words has a strange character. 

The following I copy and pasted from my wallet leaving one of the regular letters for comparison.  It is composed of a vertical line the goes above and below any of the other letters.  The part that is attached looks different in simple wallet, it looks like a T that is attached to the verticle line and squashed with the top below the top of the other letters and bottom above the bottom of the other letters.

fé

Is that character supposed to be there?  It doesn't look like any Spanish I know.  How would I reproduce it?  Is there a way to get another seed for my wallet?  I would just create a new wallet bu I like the name of it.  Could I create a new wallet by changing the case of a letter(s) in the wallet name?

If you don't know where you're going any road will get you there
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December 09, 2014, 05:11:52 AM
 #17855

I updated to 0.8.8.6

When starting simple wallet I was asked to chose a language for my wallet's seed.  English was the first choice so I entered 1 not noticing that 0 was for English so I got a seed in Spanish.  Whatever.  The problem is one of the words has a strange character. 

The following I copy and pasted from my wallet leaving one of the regular letters for comparison.  It is composed of a vertical line the goes above and below any of the other letters.  The part that is attached looks different in simple wallet, it looks like a T that is attached to the verticle line and squashed with the top below the top of the other letters and bottom above the bottom of the other letters.

fé

Is that character supposed to be there?  It doesn't look like any Spanish I know.  How would I reproduce it?  Is there a way to get another seed for my wallet?  I would just create a new wallet bu I like the name of it.  Could I create a new wallet by changing the case of a letter(s) in the wallet name?

I did the same exact thing with an old wallet. God damn programmers and their god damned zero indexed brains Tongue

I don't think there's a way to fix it at the moment, but I brought it up with fluffypony and I think it will be considered in future releases. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...
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December 09, 2014, 05:24:06 AM
 #17856

I updated to 0.8.8.6

When starting simple wallet I was asked to chose a language for my wallet's seed.  English was the first choice so I entered 1 not noticing that 0 was for English so I got a seed in Spanish.  Whatever.  The problem is one of the words has a strange character.  

The following I copy and pasted from my wallet leaving one of the regular letters for comparison.  It is composed of a vertical line the goes above and below any of the other letters.  The part that is attached looks different in simple wallet, it looks like a T that is attached to the verticle line and squashed with the top below the top of the other letters and bottom above the bottom of the other letters.

fé

Is that character supposed to be there?  It doesn't look like any Spanish I know.  How would I reproduce it?  Is there a way to get another seed for my wallet?  I would just create a new wallet bu I like the name of it.  Could I create a new wallet by changing the case of a letter(s) in the wallet name?

I did the same exact thing with an old wallet. God damn programmers and their god damned zero indexed brains Tongue

I don't think there's a way to fix it at the moment, but I brought it up with fluffypony and I think it will be considered in future releases. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...

There is no method to change the language right now.

For now just be sure your .keys file is safely backed up. The seed is an optional feature to help restore the wallet but if you have trouble with that you can still always restore from a .keys file.

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December 09, 2014, 05:55:55 AM
 #17857

But what about that strange character?  AFAIK it's not Spanish and there is no way that I know of to reproduce it.  If that's the case my seed is useless.

Are wallet names case sensitive?  I guess I could try this later.


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December 09, 2014, 06:19:44 AM
 #17858

This Re-doubles my faith in Monero.

https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/wizardry/brs-arbitrary-output-sizes.txt

Unless I have read this incorrectly it is a simple addition to Cryptonote coins?

Not, not really, and whether or not it's a security improvement is questionable as it adds a new level of associative data to transactions (outputs are exponentially more likely to be smaller mixed in inputs than larger ones). At best you reduce bloat by a constant while introducing a property whose application to forensics is unknown.

Is there a rebute to this "possible" security issue that this purports to address. And when you say no you did not mean it would not be an "easy" integration?

There is no such issue. There are only around 100 possible coin sizes with the current denomination scheme (which could be reduced with something like a 1+2+5 system), so there is no issue with not being able to find matching output sizes for any reasonable non-dust amount.  I don't think they understood how denominations worked when they wrote that (are denominations in the cryptonote white paper?) or simply wanted to write a paper about an application of cryptography and didn't care.



Thanks Guys, it's great that your always here to set things straight. Smiley

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December 09, 2014, 07:23:57 AM
 #17859

But what about that strange character?  AFAIK it's not Spanish and there is no way that I know of to reproduce it.  If that's the case my seed is useless.

Are wallet names case sensitive?  I guess I could try this later.

The strange characters are utf-8 issues, which we're working through. I'd imagine it's a latin character with an accent in the wordlist.

With the seed language: there's a command that will be merged to let you change the seed language, we'll make sure it's in 0.8.8.7 for you. In the interim, the worst case scenario is you lose your wallet files and you use your old 24-word seed to recover:)

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December 09, 2014, 07:40:26 AM
 #17860

Thank you fluffypony.

I read the missives and immediately forgot I could use the old seed.

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