[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[GingerAle]

Theoretical exercise: If I have free electricity, how can I most effectively spend $1,000 to purchase Monero mining equipment?  A single, supercharged, AMD-based gaming computer?  Two mid-range boxes?  Five low end bare bones machines?

One or two cheap motherboard+cpu+RAM with a bunch (probably 4-5) of GPUs in each. GingerAle knows more about which GPUs to use.

Mobo: 70$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157564

This is the "mining" mobo - 1 main pci-x16, 5 pci-x1. Hard to find a board with 6 of these slots. This is the one.

CPU: ~40$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116974&cm_re=LGA1150-_-19-116-974-_-Product

GPU: 340$ (X 2 ?)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150727&cm_re=390x-_-14-150-727-_-Product

note: the 390x doesn't have any reported hashrates as far as I can tell. All manufacturers (at least that new egg covers) have stopped making 290x's. You can still get an XFX 290x for ~300$, but with double the memory for 340, you might as well try the 390x. Note if you get 2 of the GPUs, you'll need a PCI riser.

PSU - 130$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139057

this leaves you 80$ for the hard drive and the memory, which you could easily do. Note - you're going to want to go linux for this build... just because.

I'd build you this at cost, btw, if you don't wanna futz with the hardware. Granted, its all "put it where it fits", but I guess that still freaks some people out.

[hiddensphinx]

how big is the xmr blockchain in GB??

[smooth]

how big is the xmr blockchain in GB??

The raw blockchain (bootstrap file) is 2-3 GB. Once you get a database loaded up it takes around 8 GB on your disk.

[Bagatell]

@hiddensphinx

Aliens stole your question! 

http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/96062/monero/96073#96073

[cAPSLOCK]

Danerash?

[americanpegasus]

this leaves you 80$ for the hard drive and the memory, which you could easily do. Note - you're going to want to go linux for this build... just because.

I'd build you this at cost, btw, if you don't wanna futz with the hardware. Granted, its all "put it where it fits", but I guess that still freaks some people out.

 
  
Hmmm, it is a generous and tempting offer; could I pay you in Monero though?  Maybe cost, +shipping, +10% for your time?  
  
Judging by your contributions, you are likely in a financial situation where you don't need to worry about money anymore, but if you ever wanted to start a company selling MoneroDo mining computers (just plug it in and mine!), I'd totally endorse you.  As a bonus you could point them all to your own pool by default.  Any idea how much XMR such a box would mine per week (at current difficulty)?  I think I'd want to do it even if I wouldn't get ROI, just to help the network out.

[e-coinomist]

Thanks for the response.  So in this case with the Pine or RasPi, wouldn't buying a couple of cheap computers like these to solo mine with (to support the network) be worth it, instead of trying to mine with an old computer that I have?  It's a 64 bit, but it's like one of the first ones and runs pretty slowly.. maybe when I wipe off all the memory when installing Ubuntu it will run faster?

Or do these things suck up a shit ton of power or something?  I just feel like $15 for a mining device that you could put something like monerodo on is pretty well worth it.

So roundabout $30 for harnessing two of them. Okay, this is just musings upon how to reuse the electrical energy in a sensible manner, and where and how this could fit into existing customs, habit and culture.
The link is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotatsu
The really most modern style of kotatsu (monero-oki-gotatsu (M置き炬燵)) would be 1 Table, 1 Futon and 1 Mining Farm (harnessing N times a pine64) and could probably double as a wirelessly connected file storage.





Disclosure: I have used USB Sticks (BTC) in a row clamped on a water pipe to avoid freezing and pipe bursts, just two and a half watts each. Operated uncooled them have been to hot to touch (passive cooled original design)

[GingerAle]

this leaves you 80$ for the hard drive and the memory, which you could easily do. Note - you're going to want to go linux for this build... just because.

I'd build you this at cost, btw, if you don't wanna futz with the hardware. Granted, its all "put it where it fits", but I guess that still freaks some people out.

 
  
Hmmm, it is a generous and tempting offer; could I pay you in Monero though?  Maybe cost, +shipping, +10% for your time?  
  
Judging by your contributions, you are likely in a financial situation where you don't need to worry about money anymore, but if you ever wanted to start a company selling MoneroDo mining computers (just plug it in and mine!), I'd totally endorse you.  As a bonus you could point them all to your own pool by default.  Any idea how much XMR such a box would mine per week (at current difficulty)?  I think I'd want to do it even if I wouldn't get ROI, just to help the network out.

Like I said, those 390x cards don't have any reported hashrates. If they similar to the 290x, they get ~750 h/s each, so that box would get you 1.5 kh/s, which is about 9 xmr per week at the going network rate. Presumably the 390x should do more due to their memory and slightly better clock speed, but its unknown.

you could *totally* pay me in monero! Of course I forgot some of the other costs, like a case, and the pci-risers, and all the ridiculous to source screws and bolts (m3 and whatever the hell the other one was called. very annoying).

this would be the case I would use: https://www.circuitspecialists.com/rackmount-enclosure-et535b.html

so if you ever got tired of the thing humming in your garage it would fit in some hosting center. Granted, it won't look that pretty when I'm done with it. Its gonna need holes. Lots of em. As jwinterm said, speed holes. Makes it go faster. We could also do a conventional case, but then you would be limited to expansion slots designed in those things.

The other nuance you will want to be aware of is my turnaround. I'm guessing this could be built, tested, and shipped in 2 months. I could probably do it in 1, but that depends on how many in-laws come to visit over the weekends. Unfortunately, I still have a day job, but computer hardware is my passion apparently... well I've known this for some time.

Bold italics - HELL NO! They would all be solo miners. Down with pools. (sorry osensei. you run a great pool)

Finally, if this were me, I would max out the pci slots with 750 ti cards (nvidia), not the AMD monsters. A maxed out 750 ti case would only get 1.6 kh/s (compared to a maxed out AMD case, which -at a minimum - would get 4.5 kh/s), but would pull less than 300 watts total, whereas the AMD maxed out beast is going to be near ... i dunno... 1500 kw or something ridiculous. The 2 card one described above is only 500 watts or so.

we can take this offline at gingeropolous@tutanota.com if you want

[arielbit]

Theoretical exercise: If I have free electricity, how can I most effectively spend $1,000 to purchase Monero mining equipment?  A single, supercharged, AMD-based gaming computer?  Two mid-range boxes?  Five low end bare bones machines?

One or two cheap motherboard+cpu+RAM with a bunch (probably 4-5) of GPUs in each. GingerAle knows more about which GPUs to use.

Mobo: 70$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157564

This is the "mining" mobo - 1 main pci-x16, 5 pci-x1. Hard to find a board with 6 of these slots. This is the one.

CPU: ~40$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116974&cm_re=LGA1150-_-19-116-974-_-Product

GPU: 340$ (X 2 ?)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150727&cm_re=390x-_-14-150-727-_-Product

note: the 390x doesn't have any reported hashrates as far as I can tell. All manufacturers (at least that new egg covers) have stopped making 290x's. You can still get an XFX 290x for ~300$, but with double the memory for 340, you might as well try the 390x. Note if you get 2 of the GPUs, you'll need a PCI riser.

PSU - 130$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139057

this leaves you 80$ for the hard drive and the memory, which you could easily do. Note - you're going to want to go linux for this build... just because.

I'd build you this at cost, btw, if you don't wanna futz with the hardware. Granted, its all "put it where it fits", but I guess that still freaks some people out.

r9 390 is more bang for the buck...

PSU can be 850w .... the ones with 5 year warranty  

if you can buy second hand pc parts from where you are..the better, just bought here..

2 r9 390...brand new is better, with 2 year warranty or more (I need this )
motherboard ddr2 am2+ shipping included - 26$
rams 2 pieces ddr2  - 15$
amd athlon 64 x2 - a cpu i kept a for some time in the cabinet.
850w PSU bought last year powering my discarded older GPUs... I choose 850w anticipating to power next GPU purchase which is power hungry.

if you are mining on free electricity find the most power hungry coin to mine, most likely it will be the most profitable in BTC once sold..and buy monero  

use this risers so you can have more space to get creative

[americanpegasus]

we can take this offline at gingeropolous@tutanota.com if you want

Thanks again for your time talking to me about this.  Let me think on it a few days.  I'm pretty sure I want those AMD cards (free electricity here) in two boxes.  One to mine Aeon and one to mine Monero.  I'll be in touch.

[Drhiggins]

Theoretical exercise: If I have free electricity, how can I most effectively spend $1,000 to purchase Monero mining equipment?  A single, supercharged, AMD-based gaming computer?  Two mid-range boxes?  Five low end bare bones machines?

One or two cheap motherboard+cpu+RAM with a bunch (probably 4-5) of GPUs in each. GingerAle knows more about which GPUs to use.

Mobo: 70$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157564

This is the "mining" mobo - 1 main pci-x16, 5 pci-x1. Hard to find a board with 6 of these slots. This is the one.

CPU: ~40$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116974&cm_re=LGA1150-_-19-116-974-_-Product

GPU: 340$ (X 2 ?)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150727&cm_re=390x-_-14-150-727-_-Product

note: the 390x doesn't have any reported hashrates as far as I can tell. All manufacturers (at least that new egg covers) have stopped making 290x's. You can still get an XFX 290x for ~300$, but with double the memory for 340, you might as well try the 390x. Note if you get 2 of the GPUs, you'll need a PCI riser.

PSU - 130$
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139057

this leaves you 80$ for the hard drive and the memory, which you could easily do. Note - you're going to want to go linux for this build... just because.

I'd build you this at cost, btw, if you don't wanna futz with the hardware. Granted, its all "put it where it fits", but I guess that still freaks some people out.

r9 390 is more bang for the buck...

PSU can be 850w .... the ones with 5 year warranty  

if you can buy second hand pc parts from where you are..the better, just bought here..

2 r9 390...brand new is better, with 2 year warranty or more (I need this )
motherboard ddr2 am2+ shipping included - 26$
rams 2 pieces ddr2  - 15$
amd athlon 64 x2 - a cpu i kept a for some time in the cabinet.
850w PSU bought last year powering my discarded older GPUs... I choose 850w anticipating to power next GPU purchase which is power hungry.

if you are mining on free electricity find the most power hungry coin to mine, most likely it will be the most profitable in BTC once sold..and buy monero  

use this risers so you can have more space to get creative

I highly suggest not using USB risers especially if its a Window OS build and AMD cards.  They don't do well with USB risers.  Use ribbon risers instead.  This is based on my experience with building miners.

[Drhiggins]

I also suggest using an open air case if you are going with more than 2 GPU's on your rig.  Main reason is heat.  The cards need to be spaced at least 1" apart on an open air rack otherwise you will shorten the life of your GPU's.  My cards run no hotter than 70℃ on hot days and most of the time around 60-65℃.   If you are going to use the AMD monsters 280x or higher with more than three GPU's in your rig you will need an additional power supply.  Never pull more than 80% recommended load that your power supply can handle.   For example if your PSU is rated at 1000watts pull no more than 800watts. This is a good rule to follow for safety and longer component life.   This will save the life of the PSU and also keep you from over pulling recommended power rating for your PSU.

I'd be happy to answer any questions on mining rigs with GPU that anyone has.  

I recommend checking out Bits Be Trippin' YouTube Page
https://www.youtube.com/user/BitsBeTrippin

[dEBRUYNE]

Many people have been asking for this, so here it is!

An extensive guide for securely generating an offline cold paper wallet:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/48cgmd/an_extensive_guide_for_securely_generating_an/

[arielbit]

I highly suggest not using USB risers especially if its a Window OS build and AMD cards.  They don't do well with USB risers.  Use ribbon risers instead.  This is based on my experience with building miners.

what do you mean they don't do well? mine is pretty stable .. you must be referring to performance (hash rate)?

[Bank_sy]

After shadowcash flaw was uncovered, there is new forked coin which has supposedly solved the problem (?)

what is the purpose of this coin?

To hell with it, here comes the cat out of the bag.

Eclipse is the first truly cryptographically anonymous coin based on the bitcoin protocol.

It is forked from shadowcash, which was completely de-anoned. See here: https://shnoe.wordpress.com/2016/02/11/de-anonymizing-shadowcash-and-oz-coin/

You will see from Shen Noether's write-up that they used a cryptographically insecure hashToEC function.

Here, we replaced their hashToEC with a cryptographically secure variant. Right now shadowcash is still not anonymous. Eclipse is anonymous.

The writeup linked above describes how the shadowcash hashToEC is broken, so I won't go into it here.

We use what is known as "try-and-increment hashing to an elliptic curve". It is a simple algorithm that is used in several cryptosystems. Key image with our algo goes like this:

1. take a scalar hash (e.g. SHA256d) of the public key (k) and map it to x on the secp256k1 discrete field
2. determine whether this x is a quadratic residue of secp256k1
3. if x is not a quadratic residue, set x = x+1 and go to 2
4. else x is a quadratic residue so keep the point x, y, where y is the positive solution to x for secp256k1, let's call this point p
5. multiply the point p = (x,y) by the scalar representing the private key x, such that key image I = xp

You can verify this is our algo by looking at secp256k1_hash_to_ec_xy_bytes() in our source tree at src/secp256k1/secp256k1/src/secp256k1.c. Rather than re-invent the wheel, we used bitcoin's secp256k1 library to determine the suitability of x and to find it's root to map point x,y.

Happy mining!


Edit:

I forgot to add that anyone who investigates may come across a caveat about try-and-increment where it is subject to "timing attack". Timing attack is absolutely not relevant to ring signatures though, because everyone already knows what a timing attack might reveal: the curve, the input k, and the scalar hash algorithm used. Going back to the original cryptonote white paper, the private key x is protected by discrete logarithm hardness.

Edit:

We have a whitepaper coming that goes into more detail and summarizes Shen's work.

any input or thoughts from the XMR camp? Does this mean Eclipse is cryptograhically anonymous?

[smooth]

any input or thoughts from the XMR camp? Does this mean Eclipse is cryptograhically anonymous?

They seem to have at least tried to fix the one identified flaw in SDC. Whether SDC has other flaws they didn't fix or whether their fix is even correct is not something anyone can answer without spending a lot of time reviewing it all, which probably won't ever happen.

[Bank_sy]

any input or thoughts from the XMR camp? Does this mean Eclipse is cryptograhically anonymous?

They seem to have at least tried to fix the one identified flaw in SDC. Whether SDC has other flaws they didn't fix or whether their fix is even correct is not something anyone can answer without spending a lot of time reviewing it all, which probably won't ever happen.

Valid points, I am hoping they will be able to get their 'fix' properly reviewed.
Assuming the fix is indeed correct, would that mean that it is then truly anonymous?
In other words: if recently exposed flaw in SDC anonymity was fixed, does it make SDC as/more anonymous as XMR? or is SDC still inferior to XMR for anonymity?

[smooth]

any input or thoughts from the XMR camp? Does this mean Eclipse is cryptograhically anonymous?

They seem to have at least tried to fix the one identified flaw in SDC. Whether SDC has other flaws they didn't fix or whether their fix is even correct is not something anyone can answer without spending a lot of time reviewing it all, which probably won't ever happen.

Valid points, I am hoping they will be able to get their 'fix' properly reviewed.
Assuming the fix is indeed correct, would that mean that it is then truly anonymous?
In other words: if recently exposed flaw in SDC anonymity was fixed, does it make SDC as/more anonymous as XMR? or is SDC still inferior to XMR for anonymity?

What about the other 99.999% of SDC, developed by the same people who made a basic math/crypto error, and which no one has ever reviewed?

Shen found that one flaw effectively by accident, while working on something else.

If SDC were comprehensively reviewed, then one could make claims about it. At this point, I would not.

[arielbit]

I highly suggest not using USB risers especially if its a Window OS build and AMD cards.  They don't do well with USB risers.  Use ribbon risers instead.  This is based on my experience with building miners.

what do you mean they don't do well? mine is pretty stable .. you must be referring to performance (hash rate)?

i did a quick google on this...using usb risers will have a slight lower hash rate, using windows OS and AMD cards here and it is a stable setup.

if you are living in hotter climate usb risers is the way...there is a trade off, a few hash rate vs more organized setup and temps (better spacing)

[Bank_sy]

any input or thoughts from the XMR camp? Does this mean Eclipse is cryptograhically anonymous?

They seem to have at least tried to fix the one identified flaw in SDC. Whether SDC has other flaws they didn't fix or whether their fix is even correct is not something anyone can answer without spending a lot of time reviewing it all, which probably won't ever happen.

Valid points, I am hoping they will be able to get their 'fix' properly reviewed.
Assuming the fix is indeed correct, would that mean that it is then truly anonymous?
In other words: if recently exposed flaw in SDC anonymity was fixed, does it make SDC as/more anonymous as XMR? or is SDC still inferior to XMR for anonymity?

What about the other 99.999% of SDC, developed by the same people who made a basic math/crypto error, and which no one has ever reviewed?

Shen found that one flaw effectively by accident, while working on something else.

If SDC were comprehensively reviewed, then one could make claims about it. At this point, I would not.

Thank you for your replies, this must mean that the premise behind SDC anonymity must be somewhat sound/reasonable (?) although yet to be reviewed.
If the premise behind SDC anonymity was completely ridiculous or unreasonable there would have been mention of it from somewhere at the least.
I am curious as to what the differences between SDCs proposed anonymity and XMRs anonymity is... I will look into it unless you can point me in the right direction. That would save me much time and be greatly appreciated