[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[coine_smithe]

Hello,

Thanks for your suggestion, however as MRO is not based off bitcoin we cannot currently add it. We will be looking at it again a few months down the line.

Regards,
Jay
​MintPal

That was received May 18

Thanks for sharing. That is very disappointing. I think if other smaller exchanges are capable of adding it that they could as well. I bet they don't want a disruptive technology competing with their other star coins at the moment.

Cool. Good nice proof right there.

To everyone who wants Mintpal:

Can we stop talking about Mintpal now? It makes the Monero community seem desperate.

We asked and that is it. I will not beg.

Yes I think that now that this in this thread it will be searchable for people who have the same concern. I have heard other people on Twitter and trollboxes wondering the same question of why this coin has not gotten on Mintpal/voting list.

I understand that you don't want to beg. Obviously that was tried which I think is a good idea personally. Now it seems the only option is to develop the coin further and let the volume come, and once that happens Mintpal will add it once the money is there.

[fluffypony]

I agree with people who dislike the new logo. Things it reminds me of: a software company, a local skilled tradesman's logo (carpet cleaning, electrician, etc.), an employment agency, a corporation. In no way does it strike me as money. The site also has that very early 2000's vibe. It doesn't have that hip web 2.0 feel. Overall the branding is very poor in my opinion.

I'd also like to note that volume is falling and the price is flatlining while this coin idles away on Poloniex and Bittrex. I really feel that Mintpal should be a goal for this coin. "It's not ready yet" isn't an excuse. Blackcoin and Darkcoin are also not finished yet but they are still on there. When Darkcoin got put on there it was very early development compared to now. I feel there's some sentiment in this thread that people want the price low so people can accumulate the coin. Well if the price falls then the only people accumulating will be the hardcore fans and the idea that staying off Mintpal will improve distribution is faulty in my opinion.

I really like this coin and I'd like it to succeed but at least in the short term things are looking very rough around the edges.

Good - the logo shouldn't strike you as money. Monero is not money. It's a store of value and a very private medium of exchange. The sooner we stop thinking about "money" in the traditional sense the better, as that thinking limits and retards our ability to innovate. And, at any rate, the arguments you make could equally be applied to Google - "The logo reminds me of a children's toy. In no way does it strike me as innovative or even a search engine. The Google search page doesn't have that hip web 2.0 feel. Overall Google's branding is very poor in my opinion."

In terms of the website, have you read this week's Monero Missives? I'm guessing you haven't yet - probably a good starting point before discussing the branding.

Lastly, we are not in control of exchanges or their adoption strategy. I will say this much: Blackcoin and Darkcoin are forked from Bitcoin. The amount of effort required by an exchange to add them is exactly 0. Monero requires a massive code change; it requires two daemons to operate (we are working on bundling this for exchanges) and it requires a vastly different RPC API. It more than likely requires a major change to the underlying database design, since payments are made to a single address with a different payment ID per-user. Watching for deposits is also challenging: the get_payments RPC API call needs to be polled for every payment ID instead of just hammering 'listreceivedbyaddress <min_confs> false' as one would for a Bitcoin-forked cryptocurrency.

This is why Monero can do things that the Bitcoin-forked cryptocurrencies can't do at all (or can't do cleanly and in a non-kludgy way), but it means that exchange pickup will be slow. Instead of viewing the Monero development timeline as you would view some Bitcoin-fork that has 99% of the work handed to it on a silver platter, view it instead as Bitcoin was in February, 2009, when it was nary a month old, but with the advantage of some network effect and peripheral infrastructure already in play. Ask yourself: what would you expect of Bitcoin in the beginning of 2009? If Monero succeeds it will not do so because of a slick website or a logo, it will be because it provides a unified user experience whilst delivering on the promise of being secure, private, and untraceable.

[Keyboard-Mash]

Actually, I sent quite a few requests out

Hello xxxxx,

Thank you for introducing me to this coin.
I have submitted your coin to our development team who will review it
to see if it meets our requirements for addition to the Cryptsy exchange.
If there is anything else I can do for you, please let me know.


Sincerely,
Ginny
Cryptsy.com

No follow up.

Also got no response from bter:

##- Please type your reply above this line -##

Your request (4638) has been received and is being reviewed by our support staff.

To add additional comments, reply to this email.

[fluffypony]

I think you're taking a professional and forward-thinking approach. And you picked the right logo, regardless of what the rabble here thinks.

The "Monero" text could use some work (aliasing & perhaps a different font choice), and the pallete could be tweaked. But no rush -- that kind of polishing can happen in time, perhaps when you can consult with / employ branding experts.

Also it's worth pointing out: there's a certain level of trolling on these forums in which trolls trash-talk positive developments in the hope of instilling doubt and perhaps even getting those positive changes reversed. Take care when you listen to the community. Consult experts where possible.

One of our designers did a bunch of tweaking and switched to the paid-for version of Century Gothic (because of quality concerns on the free one) - thoughts on the changes that were made? Here: https://i.imgur.com/0ed1UIV.jpg

[ponch85]

I think they want to earn and buy at a good price and then get into mintpal, then all landfill.
mintpal has a volume of almost all other exchange

[curetheworld]

I see there are some comments about getting monero onto the voting list at Crypsty
We can try add a new topic below, If we get enough comments and "likes/votes" then we might have a better chance of them added it to the exchange.

https://cryptsy.freshdesk.com/support/discussions/forums/4000000207/recent

[coine_smithe]

Thanks for explaining things to me Fluffypony. I feel much more up to speed on what's going on with this coin and the challenges it faces. Hopefully anyone with the same questions will be able to find this discussion that's happened in the last couple pages in this thread without repeating the same questions as me. 

Monero is not money. It's a store of value and a very private medium of exchange.

Although I disagree with you here. I like to think of distributed ledger systems like Bitcoin and Monero as a new type of money that has even more features than money of the past. You said yourself it's a store of value (cash stores my value) and it's a private medium of exchange (just like cash). The blockchain can admittedly be used for things that have nothing to do with money like domain names and voting systems.

I guess my question is, is your point of contention with calling Monero money that you fear people will think of it as only money and disregard its other potential uses? Obviously it has some of the properties of what we traditionally think of as money (and possibly more) but I don't know if it's helpful to try and stop people from calling it money. For now it's the best word we have. I also like digital currency (virtual currency is bad because it implies it is fake or ephemeral). Cryptocurrency is also nice but it is not as useful as money or digital currency when explaining these things to laypersons.

[Keyboard-Mash]

I see there are some comments about getting monero onto the voting list at Crypsty
We can try add a new topic below, If we get enough comments and "likes/votes" then we might have a better chance of them added it to the exchange.

https://cryptsy.freshdesk.com/support/discussions/forums/4000000207/recent

Can someone please do this? I would but i don't want my email/account opening the main post.

I would recommend we do it quick, as this is already listed : QCN    QuazarCoin @ https://www.cryptsy.com/coinvotes/

[coine_smithe]

I see there are some comments about getting monero onto the voting list at Crypsty
We can try add a new topic below, If we get enough comments and "likes/votes" then we might have a better chance of them added it to the exchange.

https://cryptsy.freshdesk.com/support/discussions/forums/4000000207/recent

Can someone please do this? I would but i don't want my email/account opening the main post.

I would recommend we do it quick, as this is already listed : QCN    QuazarCoin @ https://www.cryptsy.com/coinvotes/

Wow yes Quazarcoin is on the Cryptsy voting list. There is no excuse for Monero to not also be on there.

[johncitizen]

A first class corporate branding package that will blow your mind - 15k+ USD. No coin has a ridiculous hot marketing scheme. Be the first.

Great marketing will attract a community that will build the foundations. Monero already has the technical side well under way and progressing nicely.

Corporations like google, mcdonalds, suncorp, emirates etc spend excess - 8 figures developing their image at great success. For a coin that aims to dwarf darkcoin (40m cap) and potentially surge above 100m in market cap, now is the time to get moving - Competition is fierce.

Marketing is a science, a profession.

[Keyboard-Mash]

Wow yes Quazarcoin is on the Cryptsy voting list. There is no excuse for Monero to not also be on there.

I can only ask them so many times. Literally anyone who has ever used any of the exchanges is qualified to ask for a coin they want to trade to be on the exchange. This is a place where the number of requests, not the quality of requests apply. If they're not pissed at all the other people asking for a coin to be listed, I doubt they'll start to be bothered now

[expert-lister]

Dev change name from MRO to XMR ?

[Keyboard-Mash]

Dev change name from MRO to XMR ?

Was in their weekly update, needed to keep compliance

this week's Monero Missives

[fluffypony]

A first class corporate branding package that will blow your mind - 15k+ USD. No coin has a ridiculous hot marketing scheme. Be the first.

Great marketing will attract a community that will build the foundations. Monero already has the technical side well under way and progressing nicely.

Corporations like google, mcdonalds, suncorp, emirates etc spend excess - 8 figures developing their image at great success. For a coin that aims to dwarf darkcoin (40m cap) and potentially surge above 100m in market cap, now is the time to get moving - Competition is fierce.

Marketing is a science, a profession.

I already replied to you here

I do find the comments post-logo to be funny: some people love it, some hate it, some think we're too corporate, some think we're not corporate enough. We're just going to carry on, then;)

[curetheworld]

I see there are some comments about getting monero onto the voting list at Crypsty
We can try add a new topic below, If we get enough comments and "likes/votes" then we might have a better chance of them added it to the exchange.

https://cryptsy.freshdesk.com/support/discussions/forums/4000000207/recent

Can someone please do this? I would but i don't want my email/account opening the main post.

I would recommend we do it quick, as this is already listed : QCN    QuazarCoin @ https://www.cryptsy.com/coinvotes/

Wow yes Quazarcoin is on the Cryptsy voting list. There is no excuse for Monero to not also be on there.

Someone please do, I'm busy doing some stuff for CureCoin, hence my name and don't want to make the opening post, but will like and comment under the main post.
Use any of the other coins as a template, It's nice to have the coin logo, website link and the OP in the main post.

[Hexah]

New ticker? Again?!

[Keyboard-Mash]

New ticker? Again?!

Dev change name from MRO to XMR ?

Was in their weekly update, needed to keep ISO compliance

this week's Monero Missives


ISO standards: http://www.iso.org/iso/home/standards.htm

[fluffypony]

Thanks for explaining things to me Fluffypony. I feel much more up to speed on what's going on with this coin and the challenges it faces. Hopefully anyone with the same questions will be able to find this discussion that's happened in the last couple pages in this thread without repeating the same questions as me. 

Monero is not money. It's a store of value and a very private medium of exchange.

Although I disagree with you here. I like to think of distributed ledger systems like Bitcoin and Monero as a new type of money that has even more features than money of the past. You said yourself it's a store of value (cash stores my value) and it's a private medium of exchange (just like cash). The blockchain can admittedly be used for things that have nothing to do with money like domain names and voting systems.

I guess my question is, is your point of contention with calling Monero money that you fear people will think of it as only money and disregard its other potential uses? Obviously it has some of the properties of what we traditionally think of as money (and possibly more) but I don't know if it's helpful to try and stop people from calling it money. For now it's the best word we have. I also like digital currency (virtual currency is bad because it implies it is fake or ephemeral). Cryptocurrency is also nice but it is not as useful as money or digital currency when explaining these things to laypersons.

Yes - it's primarily due to the limitations we'll place on ourselves if we only think of it as money. I am talking more from a technical perspective than an economic one, since my grounding in economic theory is admittedly shaky, and I know that the association with traditional money is unavoidable (hence the ISO 4217 compliance in the XMR symbol). At the same time, we don't want to limit ourselves and our thinking.

With regards to the "layperson" understanding it: once we start down the road of saying things like "digital cash" the layperson goes "oh, so like PayPal?" Then anything awesome like M-of-N multisig (which Monero supports in the protocol just not in the client yet) is completely foreign, because you keep having to force the analogy. The same problem exists if you use "just like gold and silver" in place of "store of value", because people have this preconceived notion that gold and silver have value because of scarcity and utility (when most of its value is artificial and market driven anyway). You'll also run into difficulty trying to apply the analogy with regards to Monero's untraceable and unlinkable nature.

[fluffypony]

New ticker? Again?!

We're planning on changing it every month to keep everyone on their toes. If you don't know what the ticker is how can you know where to look for it? It's like security through obscurity but 150% better

[coine_smithe]

Yes - it's primarily due to the limitations we'll place on ourselves if we only think of it as money. I am talking more from a technical perspective than an economic one, since my grounding in economic theory is admittedly shaky, and I know that the association with traditional money is unavoidable (hence the ISO 4217 compliance in the XMR symbol). At the same time, we don't want to limit ourselves and our thinking.

With regards to the "layperson" understanding it: once we start down the road of saying things like "digital cash" the layperson goes "oh, so like PayPal?" Then anything awesome like M-of-N multisig (which Monero supports in the protocol just not in the client yet) is completely foreign, because you keep having to force the analogy. The same problem exists if you use "just like gold and silver" in place of "store of value", because people have this preconceived notion that gold and silver have value because of scarcity and utility (when most of its value is artificial and market driven anyway). You'll also run into difficulty trying to apply the analogy with regards to Monero's untraceable and unlinkable nature.

I think it's best to just tell people it's a form of money. If you try to get into all the nitty gritty details you'll lose their interest. If a talking head gets on TV and talks about Bitcoin to people in a retirement home the last thing they want to do is get into technical details and the potential for future uses. Just tell people it's money and they'll be satisfied and not that far from being wrong.

Anyway the whole reason the word money even came up was in my criticism of the new logo. I don't know, I just don't like the orange and black color, and it doesn't have that hip feel. Darkcoin's newest logo is actually one of the few logos in all of cryptocurrency that I really like and feel that it competes with the best corporate logos. It's sharp, simple, recognizable, unique... all of the attributes you want in a logo. This one is flat, circular, mismatching colors, boring, forgettable. Just my opinion! Not to hurt anyone's feelings who worked hard on it.