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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4666910 times)
dasomsos314
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May 27, 2014, 08:47:37 AM
 #4081

This coin is a buy and hold like Bitcoin.

But it is far from Bitcoin. Fewer people are interested in it!
 Smiley Smiley
The Bitcoin network protocol was designed to be extremely flexible. It can be used to create timed transactions, escrow transactions, multi-signature transactions, etc. The current features of the client only hint at what will be possible in the future.
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huhliki.k
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May 27, 2014, 08:59:49 AM
 #4082

This coin is a buy and hold like Bitcoin.

But it is far from Bitcoin. Fewer people are interested in it!
 Smiley Smiley

quotes from the branch of DarkCoin dasomsos314:

Yep, I think it's up from here. Tongue
Prices fell trend temporarily, it in order to rise the next buffer!
 Roll Eyes

i wish this coin will be good in the future.

Of course, it has a very bright future, believe it! Smiley

When you calm down!

I hate people like dasomsos314
drawingthesun
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May 27, 2014, 09:07:34 AM
 #4083

This coin is a buy and hold like Bitcoin.

But it is far from Bitcoin. Fewer people are interested in it!
 Smiley Smiley

And very few people were interested in Bitcoin when it first came out.

99% of people using Bitcoin have probably not read Satoshi's whitepaper.

Most people are only interested because of the network effect.

Monero's based on CryptoNote, I suggest people read the whitepaper to see how it differs from Bitcoin, it's a very interesting technology. I read some of the paper and am very impressed.

https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf

It might take a while for Monero to catch on, as it's not the same technology as Bitcoin. But it certainly offers something that cannot be done with Bitcoin.
Johnny Mnemonic
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May 27, 2014, 09:11:13 AM
 #4084

Cryptocurrencies face a number of future problems, including but not limited to:

- transaction witholding attacks
- centralized distribution via lending of promisory notes (back to fiat)
- transaction fee escalations
- network centralization of wealth

These issues can all be solved or greatly mitigated with a reasonable, fixed inflation. There are no other solutions that I know of that are nearly as elegant.

How would you calculate the reward per block?

For 1% per year.

In a year we have 525,600 blocks. How do you make each block increase a slight amount to make 1% per year?

Using the standard compound interest formula of A=P(1+r/n)^nt:

Each block reward would be calculated at CurrentSupply * 1.9025875 x 10^-8 to yield a roughly 1% annual increase.
dreamspark
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May 27, 2014, 09:11:45 AM
 #4085

This coin is a buy and hold like Bitcoin.

But it is far from Bitcoin. Fewer people are interested in it!
 Smiley Smiley

And very few people were interested in Bitcoin when it first came out.

99% of people using Bitcoin have probably not read Satoshi's whitepaper.

Most people are only interested because of the network effect.

Monero's based on CryptoNote, I suggest people read the whitepaper to see how it differs from Bitcoin, it's a very interesting technology. I read some of the paper and am very impressed.

https://cryptonote.org/whitepaper.pdf

It might take a while for Monero to catch on, as it's not the same technology as Bitcoin. But it certainly offers something that cannot be done with Bitcoin.

Agree but lets not pretend that cryptonote doesn't have some drawbacks as well.

Im very interested in hearing proposals to deal with blockchain bloat for instance?
Keyboard-Mash
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May 27, 2014, 09:16:09 AM
Last edit: May 27, 2014, 09:28:39 AM by Keyboard-Mash
 #4086


Agree but lets not pretend that cryptonote doesn't have some drawbacks as well.

Im very interested in hearing proposals to deal with blockchain bloat for instance?

I believe both myself and smooth (edit: I just saw Johnny Mnemonic also mentioned this above, but for a different point) have mentioned off-chain transactions would limit bloat (though this opens up many other doors). Aminorex and maybe someone else has mentioned that the chain below a certain time can be eliminated.

I'm seeing that the consensus is that it's not the biggest issue here right this second (as the bloat itself being a relatively speculative issue), but it would be great to hear the ideas you can bring to the table?
drawingthesun
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May 27, 2014, 09:20:11 AM
 #4087

Agree but lets not pretend that cryptonote doesn't have some drawbacks as well.

Im very interested in hearing proposals to deal with blockchain bloat for instance?

I've heard estimates that say Monero will have a chain between 1 - 5 times the size of a corresponding conventional blockchain.

A 5 times cost for anonymity is well worth it in my opinion. Of course any advancements that improve that are welcome.

Also Evan's latest idea is to route transactions through 10 masternodes to overcome the issue of bad nodes.

If this is the case, then the bloat could be similar to Monero.

Remember you can send a Monero transaction with the minimum inputs and outputs and it'll be similar in size to a conventional transaction.

https://forum.cryptonote.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70#p579

Quote
Roughly speaking (very roughly!), if you intentionally make you Cryptonote transaction the same as in Bitcoin (2-3 inputs and outputs and no ambiguity) it's size and verification time will be very close to Bitcoin's parameters.
Keyboard-Mash
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May 27, 2014, 09:21:38 AM
 #4088

Cryptocurrencies face a number of future problems, including but not limited to:

- transaction witholding attacks
- centralized distribution via lending of promisory notes (back to fiat)
- transaction fee escalations
- network centralization of wealth

These issues can all be solved or greatly mitigated with a reasonable, fixed inflation. There are no other solutions that I know of that are nearly as elegant.

How would you calculate the reward per block?

For 1% per year.

In a year we have 525,600 blocks. How do you make each block increase a slight amount to make 1% per year?

Using the standard compound interest formula of A=P(1+r/n)^nt:

Each block reward would be calculated at CurrentSupply * 1.9025875 x 10^-8 to yield a roughly 1% annual increase.

I'm still on the fence either way. As far as at least keeping the door open, it's a good start to have some form of debasement (right now that's being set up to be accomplished with a constant emission). Can you break each of your four points down and discuss why having a fixed inflation, rather than a fixed emission would be beneficial? I know you've mentioned that it's only a temporary fix. I think I agree, but I'm also not 100% on a 1% fixed rate either.

I feel this way specifically because a difference between the two isn't readily apparent (according to the provided simulations) until some years/decades after they are put into practice.
superresistant
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May 27, 2014, 09:23:00 AM
 #4089

Agree but lets not pretend that cryptonote doesn't have some drawbacks as well.
Im very interested in hearing proposals to deal with blockchain bloat for instance?
I've heard estimates that say Monero will have a chain between 1 - 5 times the size of a corresponding conventional blockchain.
A 5 times cost for anonymity is well worth it in my opinion. Of course any advancements that improve that are welcome.
Also Evan's latest idea is to route transactions through 10 masternodes to overcome the issue of bad nodes.
If this is the case, then the bloat could be similar to Monero.
Remember you can send a Monero transaction with the minimum inputs and outputs and it'll be similar in size to a conventional transaction.
https://forum.cryptonote.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70#p579
Quote
Roughly speaking (very roughly!), if you intentionally make you Cryptonote transaction the same as in Bitcoin (2-3 inputs and outputs and no ambiguity) it's size and verification time will be very close to Bitcoin's parameters.

In 5 years, the size and the speed of hard-drives will greatly increase so it is not really a problem IMO.
eizh
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May 27, 2014, 09:38:06 AM
 #4090


In 5 years, the size and the speed of hard-drives will greatly increase so it is not really a problem IMO.


3D NAND Flash integration is coming and it'll make current memory densities look like a joke. Wink
George.PK
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May 27, 2014, 09:39:34 AM
 #4091


This website is not hot
Keyboard-Mash
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May 27, 2014, 09:44:14 AM
 #4092


3D NAND Flash integration is coming and it'll make current memory densities look like a joke. Wink

Nice! I haven't heard about this yet. Would you say these are good articles to get an idea of what this is? Or do you have links for better info?

http://www.3dincites.com/2014/02/samsungs-v-nand-flash-2014-isscc-ye-distant-spires/

http://www.gizmag.com/samsung-v-nand-flash-chip-ssd/28655/
dreamspark
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May 27, 2014, 09:51:57 AM
 #4093

Agree but lets not pretend that cryptonote doesn't have some drawbacks as well.

Im very interested in hearing proposals to deal with blockchain bloat for instance?

I've heard estimates that say Monero will have a chain between 1 - 5 times the size of a corresponding conventional blockchain.

A 5 times cost for anonymity is well worth it in my opinion. Of course any advancements that improve that are welcome.

Also Evan's latest idea is to route transactions through 10 masternodes to overcome the issue of bad nodes.

If this is the case, then the bloat could be similar to Monero.

Remember you can send a Monero transaction with the minimum inputs and outputs and it'll be similar in size to a conventional transaction.

https://forum.cryptonote.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70#p579

Quote
Roughly speaking (very roughly!), if you intentionally make you Cryptonote transaction the same as in Bitcoin (2-3 inputs and outputs and no ambiguity) it's size and verification time will be very close to Bitcoin's parameters.

I definately don't care what Evan feels the solution is, masternodes are a terrible idea when the majority of them are hosted on Amazon Web Services lol Wink Great for a pump though, tell people they need 1000 dark and they're set for life, thats not a pump at all !

Back to monero, thanks for those estimates, I admit I haven't read up properly on how much bigger the chain could be it was just a thought after syncing an oldish wallet and it taking a few hours when Im sure most the tranfic on the network are coinbase coins still.

In physical terms storage isn't a problem and anyone who says it is are living under a rock its more syncing issues that concern me along with bandwith considerations for people not on even broadband for example.

 Checkpoints are all well and good meaning you don't need the whole chain but we need to make sure its implemented properly. We already tried to implement it once and went back if I remember correctly.

Cheers.
equipoise
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May 27, 2014, 10:12:47 AM
 #4094

^It's taking so long not only because of the size, but because of the fact, that each block should be checked for valid hash when downloading it. The checking is not multithreaded, so on my core i7 it'll make 23 H/s for this checking. Currently we are on block 58694 which means without the downloading it should take additional 42 minutes for checking and much more on slower PCs. The checkpoints should drastically lower this time.

About me | zRMicroArray - phase 2 - Gene Expression Analysis software | [Weed Like to Talk - Bulgaria] Start a wave of cannabis seminars in Europe | Monero weighted average price stats: moneroprice.i2p
BTC: 1KoCX7TWKVGwqmmFw3CKyUSrKRSStueZar | NMC: NKhYEYpe1Le9MwHrwKsdSm5617J4toVar9 | XMR (Tip me a beer OpenAlias Monero address): tip.changetheworldwork.com
[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency: 4AyRmUcxzefB5quumzK3HNE4zmCiGc8vhG6fE1oJpGVyVZF7fvDgSpt3MzgLfQ6Q1719xQhmfkM9Z2u NXgDMqYhjJVmc6KX
dewdeded
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May 27, 2014, 10:33:43 AM
 #4095

Subbed.
mro_br
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May 27, 2014, 11:15:17 AM
 #4096

http://mro.extremepool.org has decided to be brave and run the experimental daemon with the new block mining code on his pool.

Please point your miners there and let's see if the fix (which seemed OK on testnet) works OK on the mainnet! Hopefully it will result in greater profits for miners as well.

Thanks TacoTime, we are also updated with the Pool and in perfect working order!  Grin

http://moneropool.com.br/

[root@mine.moneropool.com.br ~]# bitmonerod --version
2014-May-27 08:07:40.578295 Starting...
2014-May-27 08:07:40.579052 bitmonero v0.8.8.1(0.1-g328a52a)
bitmonero v0.8.8.1(0.1-g328a52a)

surfer43
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May 27, 2014, 11:49:39 AM
 #4097

http://mro.extremepool.org has decided to be brave and run the experimental daemon with the new block mining code on his pool.

Please point your miners there and let's see if the fix (which seemed OK on testnet) works OK on the mainnet! Hopefully it will result in greater profits for miners as well.
http://moneropool.org has been running with the experimental daemon for a few days now, no problems. And we've gotten full reward for every block.
xnbya
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May 27, 2014, 12:14:10 PM
 #4098

Announcing a new pool - http://minemro.com/
0% fees, based in UK, running latest daemons
Come and join us!  Tongue
tequillaquagga
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May 27, 2014, 12:25:46 PM
 #4099

I have joined to minemro.com Tnx for new pool.

The Camel Marches On
Eugen123
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May 27, 2014, 12:34:27 PM
 #4100

Guys, a fixed subsidy will not work. All you're doing is delaying the inevitable. This was already explained in the MRO economy thread as well as here. If MRO continues to grow after the fixed subsidy is reached, miners will again start relying on tx fees because the reward will not be worth the work, and then fees will begin to escalate. A fixed subsidy will only delay the problem. You must have a fixed percentage annual debasement. You guys know perfectly well that a 1% debasement will not hurt the value of your coins one bit. Be reasonable.

Money will only lose value if you inflate the circulating money supply. A 1% annual increase to the total supply won't do a damn thing, except solve all kinds of problems. You must have a fixed debasement or the network will eventually be unsustainable.

Gold debases at more than 2%/year and it will not slow down in anyone's lifetime. We will mine from space or make our own gold via super colliders long before Earth's gold supply is tapped. Interestingly, the value of gold keeps going up despite the constant supply inflation. Go figure.

Completely agree with this, and nice to see it here.  After the PoS/limited supply craze dies down, this is the sort of regime that will win out.
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