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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4667032 times)
smooth
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May 26, 2014, 10:41:52 PM
 #4021

1 minute blocks totally fail the Starbuvks challenge. Are you going to stand there at the from the of the line waiting for 1 minute before they give you your coffee?

Orhpans are not just an issue for miners. As a seller, with a high orphan rate you can't be sure that even that one confirmation you did wait for is enough. The transaction might disappear if the block is orhpaned! So you will definitely want to wait for more confirms. Often people will accept 1-confirm bitcoin transactions because bitcoin has such a low orhpan rate. If a tranasction is in one block, you can be about 99% sure it will stay in the chain forever. That's not true for coins with too-fast block times any many orphans and reorgs.

The only way the starbucks challenge works is with some different kind of technology beside just a block chain. Green addresses, green multisig, off-chain transactions, etc. Block time has nothing to do with it.

Please keep the 1 minute blocks! Else Monero wont have a chance to compete with other coins for mainstream adoption. It's simply to slow for every day transactions. Any coin that shall be used in daily live has to beat the "Starbucks challenge", that is: Buy your coffee and settle the payment before you walk out the door. No merchant will accept a payment that requires him to wait minutes for settlement when credit cards or cash do that in seconds. If you argue that 1 minute blocks result in too many orphanes and are thus unfavorable for miners, I ask you to rethink your priorities when it's most crucial to design a friendly experience for the users instead of the miners that will stay regardless.

On the issue of emission schedule, Im also in favor of a flatter curve. 87% in 4 years is not much time. Most likely thats when cryptos really catch on. We should think middle- long term instead of short term gains if we want this one to succeed and also provide a reliable Bitcoin-like source of revenue. I'd be happy to halve emission per block while keeping block times intact for the greater good.
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May 26, 2014, 10:43:26 PM
 #4022

For cryptonote coins, 2 minutes makes better since. These coins focus on anonymity, not necessarily speed of transaction. To the users of such coins, 2 minutes instead of 1 minute will not be a big deal at all. Plus, a longer block time has many internal advantages, most of which have already been posted. And, as already pointed out, BTC is ~10 minutes, and that hasn't hurt it.

Comparison of Privacy-Centric Coins: https://moneroforcash.com/monero-vs-dash-vs-zcash-vs-bitcoinmixers.php also includes Verge and Pivx
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May 26, 2014, 10:53:39 PM
 #4023

This is a perfect example of why hardforking should be as painless as possible. Smooth suggested upthread a method of hard fork voting that would greatly reduce risk. Such a system would allow many improvements to take place at a much greater pace.
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May 26, 2014, 11:31:44 PM
Last edit: May 26, 2014, 11:50:57 PM by eizh
 #4024

A hard fork isn't that big of an impediment. It can be placed over a month into the future so that everyone in our relatively small community can upgrade clients in time. We will be hard forking anyway to place a minimum subsidy so that the network doesn't die in 8 years.

I'm also in favor of 2 minute blocks. It's arguably better for commercial situations as smooth pointed out because the additional confidence in confirmations beats the time penalty.


Yes, thanks. I was just wondering because Cryptonote coins advertise being 'double-spend proof' and wanted to know if this was because however magical way the blockchain might be set up that nobody can fork it.

But ok, thanks Smiley

'Double-spend proof' actually has to do with properties of the one-time ring signatures that CryptoNote uses. It can be proven that when ring signatures are linkable, you can't create a false signature and spend a coin again. Forking is something else and always possible in PoW (or PoS) coins.

I think CrpyoNote's choice of words here is a little misleading since most people think of constructing a longer chain and releasing it when they think of double spending. We're still vulnerable to that.
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May 26, 2014, 11:57:09 PM
Last edit: May 27, 2014, 12:16:29 AM by tacotime
 #4025

Some additional features were added to my 0.8.8 branch:

- Merged in latest PR
- Temporary fix for block reward penalty being too large

https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/tree/0.8.8update

The latter is important for pools or miners who have been having issues with low block subsidy due to block sizes being too large. This new update will allow for the slow increase of median block size until we have a proper fees calculation, which will take more time.

The codebase appears to be relatively stable, as me and several others have been using it without issue, but I would like more comments. Upgrade at your own risk. Please note if you're using this daemon for mining, you will reject all tx with less than the minimum fee (5 * 10^9 AMU).

If you're using zone117x's pool, you will need to adjust your fees in your config file:

Code:
"transferFee": 1000000,

to

Code:
"transferFee": 5000000000,

or else your payouts will not go through.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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May 27, 2014, 12:32:41 AM
 #4026

Question that I am trying to understand. This type of mining is new for me and I could not find the answer.

I have the wallet synced and created a bat file which opened cryptonote easy miner. The address in the cryptonote easy miner is not the same as my wallet address on the balance page. I can't change  the address in the miner to match. Am I mining for someone else? Can I change that to my address in the wallet to match?

I also tried to pool mine in the wallet but nothing happens when I click on the start mining but it will solo mine in the wallet.

Sorry for noobish questions just want to make sure I am doing this correct.

If you are going to leave your BTC on an exchange please send it to this address instead 1GH3ub3UUHbU5qDJW5u3E9jZ96ZEmzaXtG, I will at least use the money better than someone who steals it from the exchange. Thanks Wink
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May 27, 2014, 12:50:49 AM
 #4027

We will be hard forking anyway to place a minimum subsidy so that the network doesn't die in 8 years.

Did we come to a reasonable solution regarding that? It was discussed quite a bit in the economics thread:

Tacotime mentioned a hard fork proposal to never let the block reward drop below 1 coin:

Code:
if (blockReward < 1){
blockReward = 1;
}

I assume this is merely delaying the problem, however. I proposed a fixed annual debasement (say 2%) with a tx fee cap of like 0.001% of the current block reward (or whatever sounds reasonable). That way we still get the spam protection without worrying about fee escalation down the road.

As long as the subsidy is a fixed proportion of the existing money supply (and not a fixed amount), it should be adequate.
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May 27, 2014, 12:53:43 AM
 #4028

^^^ I will come out with a MIP for it (it's MIP0003), we will debate it there. Right now there's just a placeholder. I'm starting to lean towards tiny exponential inflation when we hit ~1% inflation per year.

https://github.com/monero-developers/mips

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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May 27, 2014, 12:57:15 AM
 #4029

^^^ I will come out with a MIP for it (it's MIP0003), we will debate it there. Right now there's just a placeholder. I'm starting to lean towards tiny exponential inflation when we hit ~1% inflation per year.

https://github.com/monero-developers/mips

That sounds very reasonable.
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May 27, 2014, 12:57:28 AM
 #4030

Some additional features were added to my 0.8.8 branch:

- Merged in latest PR
- Temporary fix for block reward penalty being too large

https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/tree/0.8.8update

The latter is important for pools or miners who have been having issues with low block subsidy due to block sizes being too large. This new update will allow for the slow increase of median block size until we have a proper fees calculation, which will take more time.

The codebase appears to be relatively stable, as me and several others have been using it without issue, but I would like more comments. Upgrade at your own risk. Please note if you're using this daemon for mining, you will reject all tx with less than the minimum fee (5 * 10^9 AMU).

If you're using zone117x's pool, you will need to adjust your fees in your config file:

Code:
"transferFee": 1000000,

to

Code:
"transferFee": 5000000000,

or else your payouts will not go through.


I don't know if this has been addressed but zone 11 download link in op does not work.
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May 27, 2014, 12:59:48 AM
 #4031

I don't know if this has been addressed but zone 11 download link in op does not work.
Correct link is https://github.com/zone117x/cryptonote-easy-miner/releases/download/v0.0.3/cryptonote-easy-miner_v0.0.3.zip
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May 27, 2014, 01:12:56 AM
 #4032


Thank you
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May 27, 2014, 01:16:11 AM
 #4033

So, whats everyones hash rates at?

Mines at a hefty 12.74KH/s
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May 27, 2014, 01:19:05 AM
 #4034

Please keep the 1 minute blocks! Else Monero wont have a chance to compete with other coins for mainstream adoption. It's simply to slow for every day transactions. Any coin that shall be used in daily live has to beat the "Starbucks challenge", that is: Buy your coffee and settle the payment before you walk out the door. No merchant will accept a payment that requires him to wait minutes for settlement when credit cards or cash do that in seconds. If you argue that 1 minute blocks result in too many orphanes and are thus unfavorable for miners, I ask you to rethink your priorities when it's most crucial to design a friendly experience for the users instead of the miners that will stay regardless.

On the issue of emission schedule, Im also in favor of a flatter curve. 87% in 4 years is not much time. Most likely thats when cryptos really catch on. We should think middle- long term instead of short term gains if we want this one to succeed and also provide a reliable Bitcoin-like source of revenue. I'd be happy to halve emission per block while keeping block times intact for the greater good.

no merchant cares whether there are any confirms unless the value is high enough to wait.


Give a man a fish and he eats for a day.  Give a man a Poisson distribution and he eats at random times independent of one another, at a constant known rate.
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May 27, 2014, 01:19:38 AM
 #4035

So, whats everyones hash rates at?

Mines at a hefty 12.74KH/s
That is one big hashrate. What are you mining with?
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May 27, 2014, 02:21:28 AM
 #4036

no merchant cares whether there are any confirms unless the value is high enough to wait.

Truth. Are you trying to steer toward a conversation about the market price? I'll bite.

What I see happening now is that the markets (and us) are paying for those who have overextended themselves. End of the month bills are now due and that includes rent, power and especially amazon. Altcoin markets are filled with this and I've seen this repeat at usually the last week of the month for a lot of 'overmined' alts. Not to say that this doesn't deserve the attention, but surely historic volumes tend to cause some people to go a little more nuts than they would not have otherwise.  I just hope that people reading this, that are in that situation, can learn from this overshoot and maybe reach a little less far in the future. Just my thought is all.
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May 27, 2014, 02:52:01 AM
 #4037

New Windows binaries are available that are compatible with the fee update and tx size restrictions.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/38aa9pb9zfw7ltf/monero.win.x64.0526.zip
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uevvh90maa8r1zm/monero.win.x86.0526.zip

Those wishing to try to the experimental 0.8.8 branch may also use it:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aqcz044228veu92/monero.win.x64.experimental.0526.zip
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nfeqsv9i2zx9dox/monero.win.x86.experimental.0526.zip

Please let me know of any bugs it may have.

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
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May 27, 2014, 03:02:21 AM
 #4038

New Windows binaries are available that are compatible with the fee update and tx size restrictions.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/38aa9pb9zfw7ltf/monero.win.x64.0526.zip
https://www.dropbox.com/s/uevvh90maa8r1zm/monero.win.x86.0526.zip

Those wishing to try to the experimental 0.8.8 branch may also use it:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/aqcz044228veu92/monero.win.x64.experimental.0526.zip
https://www.dropbox.com/s/nfeqsv9i2zx9dox/monero.win.x86.experimental.0526.zip

Please let me know of any bugs it may have.

Thanks to Tacotime and all the devs who brought this coin to where it is today.  Looking forward to tomorrow.
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May 27, 2014, 03:05:25 AM
 #4039

Thanks to Tacotime and all the devs who brought this coin to where it is today.  Looking forward to tomorrow.

np, the experimental branch should put an end to blocks like this: http://monerochain.info/block/7933b43b3bf22479dfcf1a4fec2c401ffbcbb8a078db989675c51d77c6c8ecd9

Code:
XMR: 44GBHzv6ZyQdJkjqZje6KLZ3xSyN1hBSFAnLP6EAqJtCRVzMzZmeXTC2AHKDS9aEDTRKmo6a6o9r9j86pYfhCWDkKjbtcns
blaaaaacksuit
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May 27, 2014, 03:12:27 AM
 #4040

Thanks to Tacotime and all the devs who brought this coin to where it is today.  Looking forward to tomorrow.

np, the experimental branch should put an end to blocks like this: http://monerochain.info/block/7933b43b3bf22479dfcf1a4fec2c401ffbcbb8a078db989675c51d77c6c8ecd9

How frequently is this happening?
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