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Author Topic: Butterfly Labs - Bitforce Single and Mini Rig Box  (Read 176371 times)
rjk
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March 10, 2012, 02:43:14 AM
 #381

I've seen a few of the same, a few rejects around the time of a longpoll. Not sure what's up.

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kano
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March 10, 2012, 02:51:49 AM
 #382

I have 3 singles running now. 258 watts including the laptop. Averaging 2426 Mh/s after 10 minutes of mining using cgminer.

I've not really mined before so I don't know if this is common but my hash rate takes a hit when stale shares happen. I get a few rejects either just before or just after the stales and it saying something about a Long Poll detecting a new block or a new block detected before long poll.

Is this due to the way the Bitforce Single does its thing or ?

Can I change settings to reduce the stale shares and rejects?

Thanks

It is due to the way the Bitforce currently works.

The Bitforce replies with a list of shares after it has processed the full 2^32 nonce range.

Since it hashes at about 830MH/s then it will take approx 5 seconds to do a nonce range.
If you get an LP during that 5 seconds, then the work returned at the end of the 5 seconds for each Bitforce you have will of course be rejected if sent to the pool
(which also means this can happen: if it found the share before the LP but the 5 second reply is after the LP, then the share that could have been valid will of course be rejected)

5 seconds is 0.8% of an average 10 minute block on non P2Pool

IF however you mine P2Pool it will be 50% of an average 10 second block ... so don't mine P2Pool with a Bitforce.

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March 10, 2012, 02:56:04 AM
 #383

I have 3 singles running now. 258 watts including the laptop. Averaging 2426 Mh/s after 10 minutes of mining using cgminer.

I've not really mined before so I don't know if this is common but my hash rate takes a hit when stale shares happen. I get a few rejects either just before or just after the stales and it saying something about a Long Poll detecting a new block or a new block detected before long poll.

Is this due to the way the Bitforce Single does its thing or ?

Can I change settings to reduce the stale shares and rejects?

Thanks

It is due to the way the Bitforce currently works.

The Bitforce replies with a list of shares after it has processed the full 2^32 nonce range.

Since it hashes at about 830MH/s then it will take approx 5 seconds to do a nonce range.
If you get an LP during that 5 seconds, then the work returned at the end of the 5 seconds for each Bitforce you have will of course be rejected if sent to the pool
(which also means this can happen: if it found the share before the LP but the 5 second reply is after the LP, then the share that could have been valid will of course be rejected)

5 seconds is 0.8% of an average 10 minute block on non P2Pool

IF however you mine P2Pool it will be 50% of an average 10 second block ... so don't mine P2Pool with a Bitforce.

kano: i been on these forums awhile man and you gotta be one of the smartest dudes on here , if you dont mind me askin what do you do for a living?

Matthew N. Wright
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March 10, 2012, 03:06:32 AM
 #384

kano: i been on these forums awhile man and you gotta be one of the smartest dudes on here

Agreed.

fred0
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March 10, 2012, 03:11:42 AM
 #385

I have 3 singles running now. 258 watts including the laptop. Averaging 2426 Mh/s after 10 minutes of mining using cgminer.

I've not really mined before so I don't know if this is common but my hash rate takes a hit when stale shares happen. I get a few rejects either just before or just after the stales and it saying something about a Long Poll detecting a new block or a new block detected before long poll.

Is this due to the way the Bitforce Single does its thing or ?

Can I change settings to reduce the stale shares and rejects?

Thanks
I have the same. 10 Minutes is too short a period to measure.

The long polling/new block, there is nothing you can do about.

If Pool 0 is not providing work fast enough, I have increased my queue to 4 (1 for each single +1).

[Edit] updated benchmarks
us.ozco.in:8332
rejects       179
getworks    2072
shares       15301
time(s)      26901
time          07:28:21
mh/s         2442.9
mh/s/BFS   814.3
reject %    1.16%
efficiency   738%

You should run benchmarks on pools that you like, if for nothing other than finding a good backup pool. CGMiner is really outstanding for its failover capabilities.  
kano
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March 10, 2012, 03:29:41 AM
 #386

...
kano: i been on these forums awhile man and you gotta be one of the smartest dudes on here , if you dont mind me askin what do you do for a living?
LOL - thanks I'll presume that was a compliment Smiley
(I can never be 100% sure when people are typing text - I sometimes misunderstand and give back rather unfriendly replies Tongue)
Anyway, just an IT person like many? around here.
I currently setup and run the IT for half a dozen very small companies.
I'm definitely not a Satoshi level (coz I absolutely HATE statistics as is probably obvious from some of the comments I've made) but I like to know a lot about what I'm dealing with (though I have a rather bad memory)
I'm sure that's more than most people would want to know Cheesy

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Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with Stratum, the best protocol to mine Bitcoins with ASIC hardware
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March 10, 2012, 06:08:35 PM
 #387

Guys, how many of you received their equipment? Is this company reliable or is this another scam? I would like to order few basic platforms, but I do not know if they can be trusted.

Inspector 2211
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March 10, 2012, 06:21:42 PM
 #388

Guys, how many of you received their equipment? Is this company reliable or is this another scam? I would like to order few basic platforms, but I do not know if they can be trusted.

I think we are now beyond the question of whether this is a scam or not.
Just from counting the guys who have posted about it on this forum, more than 10 systems have been delivered so far.

However, that doesn't mean they cannot suddenly go under, for instance from cash flow problems or yield issues.

Lots of small companies succumb to cash flow issues (less of a risk here because orders have been pre-paid for 4 months, giving them an ample cash cushion) or yield issues.

Yield issues: What if they find out during QA that they have to [expensively] rework or even dump 70% of their circuit boards and can ship only 30%?

Yield issues like that can doom a start-up company, when you spend more money per shipped product than you take in.

Thus, I'd say, no, it's not a scam, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's 100% certain that you will receive product for the money you pre-pay.
hashking
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March 10, 2012, 06:27:27 PM
 #389

I would stay away for now.  The nondelivery is not the only issue to worry about.  I would also worry about the quality.  If they are scrambling to get these done to send out there also might be issues with the singles working correctly.  If they are this bad sending out new ones, could you imagine the nightmare on a warranty exchange.  Thats my 2 cents.
platorin
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March 10, 2012, 06:29:11 PM
 #390

I think we are now beyond the question of whether this is a scam or not.
Just from counting the guys who have posted about it on this forum, more than 10 systems have been delivered so far.

Thank you for your answer Inspector 2211.

Is it known how many people did preorder?

Inspector 2211
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March 10, 2012, 06:47:04 PM
 #391

I think we are now beyond the question of whether this is a scam or not.
Just from counting the guys who have posted about it on this forum, more than 10 systems have been delivered so far.

Thank you for your answer Inspector 2211.

Is it known how many people did preorder?

No, not in total, but why don't you take a look at this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67887.0 and, if you have the time,
tally the totals for "ordered", "received", and "not yet received", and post them here.
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March 10, 2012, 10:12:15 PM
 #392

Quote from: platorin
Guys, how many of you received their equipment? Is this company reliable or is this another scam? I would like to order few basic platforms, but I do not know if they can be trusted.

Guess it depends on your definition of scam, they seem to be trying to run a legit company.
The question comes down to "How much risk are you willing to take?"

My concern is that they are selling a one-trick pony.  From what I've read they use an encrypted bitstream and, if I understand that correctly, that means only BFL can provide another bitstream that would work. Also there's the issue of the unknown hardware that they use. It seems that they bought the chips (stratix?) at some reduced price which suggests that they have some number of chips but can get no more. So 6 months from now when yours has an issue you're out of luck if it's the FPGA.  That's too much risk for me, 6 month warranty doesn't inspire my confidence.

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March 10, 2012, 11:27:49 PM
 #393

After all this long long way I guess i can finally place my order for one single unit.
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March 11, 2012, 02:52:12 AM
 #394

Quote from: platorin
Guys, how many of you received their equipment? Is this company reliable or is this another scam? I would like to order few basic platforms, but I do not know if they can be trusted.

Guess it depends on your definition of scam, they seem to be trying to run a legit company.
The question comes down to "How much risk are you willing to take?"

My concern is that they are selling a one-trick pony.  From what I've read they use an encrypted bitstream and, if I understand that correctly, that means only BFL can provide another bitstream that would work. Also there's the issue of the unknown hardware that they use. It seems that they bought the chips (stratix?) at some reduced price which suggests that they have some number of chips but can get no more. So 6 months from now when yours has an issue you're out of luck if it's the FPGA.  That's too much risk for me, 6 month warranty doesn't inspire my confidence.


I was originally one of their strictest critics and now (after receiving my first BitForce Single) I believe know that they are completely legit.

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March 11, 2012, 03:15:34 AM
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Quote from: platorin
Guys, how many of you received their equipment? Is this company reliable or is this another scam? I would like to order few basic platforms, but I do not know if they can be trusted.

Guess it depends on your definition of scam, they seem to be trying to run a legit company.
The question comes down to "How much risk are you willing to take?"

My concern is that they are selling a one-trick pony.  From what I've read they use an encrypted bitstream and, if I understand that correctly, that means only BFL can provide another bitstream that would work. Also there's the issue of the unknown hardware that they use. It seems that they bought the chips (stratix?) at some reduced price which suggests that they have some number of chips but can get no more. So 6 months from now when yours has an issue you're out of luck if it's the FPGA.  That's too much risk for me, 6 month warranty doesn't inspire my confidence.


I was originally one of their strictest critics and now (after receiving my first BitForce Single) I believe know that they are completely legit.



Hi Cablepair. I'm glad to hear that they're legit and that you've received your single, but I'm curious how long did it take from the moment you pre-ordered to the moment it arrived at your door. I'd like to buy one for shitz and giggles (although I prefer Icarus and X6500 due to their greater power efficiency) but I have doubts that it will be worthwhile to wait 6 weeks to get one.

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March 11, 2012, 12:27:24 PM
 #396

why is it so hard to know what chips they use? can't you read the print on the chip without destroying the bitforce?

anyone can gibe me a hint on delivery costs to europe/germany?

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March 11, 2012, 12:45:50 PM
 #397

why is it so hard to know what chips they use? can't you read the print on the chip without destroying the bitforce?

anyone can gibe me a hint on delivery costs to europe/germany?

Because the sanded off the print on the chip.

$687.00 with international shipping. Add 19% VAT to that and you have your price.
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March 11, 2012, 12:46:06 PM
 #398

Quote from: platorin
Guys, how many of you received their equipment? Is this company reliable or is this another scam? I would like to order few basic platforms, but I do not know if they can be trusted.

Guess it depends on your definition of scam, they seem to be trying to run a legit company.
The question comes down to "How much risk are you willing to take?"

My concern is that they are selling a one-trick pony.  From what I've read they use an encrypted bitstream and, if I understand that correctly, that means only BFL can provide another bitstream that would work. Also there's the issue of the unknown hardware that they use. It seems that they bought the chips (stratix?) at some reduced price which suggests that they have some number of chips but can get no more. So 6 months from now when yours has an issue you're out of luck if it's the FPGA.  That's too much risk for me, 6 month warranty doesn't inspire my confidence.


I was originally one of their strictest critics and now (after receiving my first BitForce Single) I believe know that they are completely legit.



Hi Cablepair. I'm glad to hear that they're legit and that you've received your single, but I'm curious how long did it take from the moment you pre-ordered to the moment it arrived at your door. I'd like to buy one for shitz and giggles (although I prefer Icarus and X6500 due to their greater power efficiency) but I have doubts that it will be worthwhile to wait 6 weeks to get one.

hi allinvain Smiley

Let me clarify, the one BitFORCE single that I have - I did not purchase from BFL, I also did not could not wait six weeks to get one (I just had to have it!) so I was able to make a deal with one of the lucky individuals that got one on the very first shipment and when it got here a couple days later (thank you priority mail) I was very very impressed with it, its a remarkable piece of equipment - it is engineered extremely well and I love the fact that it just works! It runs full blast mining away 24/7 with no software changes or overclocking, if it starts to get too warm it throttles it self down and corrects itself. Its very impressive and I love it. I added it to a machine that has two 6990s in it just for comparison and its very impressive.



So I start opening up a conversation with Sonny from BFL - he seems to be the guy who wears the P.R./C.S. hat, and I start emailing back and forth , probing for information - feeling them out, and now I feel a lot better about this. I was able to place an order for two more of the BitFORCE singles and pay via dwolla, they sent me an invoice and I paid the invoice it all feels very legit to me now. I could be wrong but I have a good feeling about BFL that I did not have before, mostly the product itself won me over. Theres a little bit of genius - magic there that always wins me over when I experience it and why I work in the technology field (remember the first time you used an iPhone?)

As BFL is not really a part of this community coming into this I don't think they realized how exciting and demanding we would be about their product and how critical we would be of them. Although their customer service was incredibly poor and they made some mistakes that set off a lot of red flags for a lot of people (myself included) I think we were over critical of them and I think they are getting it together. I also think a lot of their delayed shipping times have to do with the amount of liquid cash they have and the amount of chips they can have made at one time. It seems to me that once we get to the 3rd and 4th shipments it will be a lot quicker because of these reasons.
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March 11, 2012, 03:00:52 PM
 #399

Quote
(remember the first time you used an iPhone?)

Yeah, I do... I threw up a little in my mouth, but I was in public, so I had to swallow it.  It was gross.

If you're searching these lines for a point, you've probably missed it.  There was never anything there in the first place.
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March 11, 2012, 04:40:37 PM
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Quote
(remember the first time you used an iPhone?)

Yeah, I do... I threw up a little in my mouth, but I was in public, so I had to swallow it.  It was gross.


QFT

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