rpietila Altcoin Observer

[othe]

monero is an exception and litecoin is the china bitcoin, thats not a myth

This is something new I'm hearing. They have alt for almost everything...

Google => Baidu

Twitter => Weibo

Facebook => Renren

Amazon => Alibaba

...and now

Bitcoin => Litecoin

Thats non sense, Litecoin adoption in china is nearly non existent except from speculative reason and some exchanges who added them.
If some coin gets really big in china except Bitcoin then it will be something that comes out of china directly.

And please...that Amazon and Alibaba comparison, i guess u never used Alibaba, its mainly a B2B channel like made-in-china, globalsources, doba, tradekey and dhgate.

If you want to compare Amazon to something you are better off with taobao (also owned by alibaba).

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[JorgeStolfi]

Litecoin adoption in china is nearly non existent except from speculative reason and some exchanges who added them.

Last December the Chinese government banned any use of cryptocurrencies, including both Bitcoin and Litecoin, except for speculative trade.

I haven't checked how the volumes are evolving, but  the largest exchanges (Huobi and OKCoin, much bigger than BTC-China and the western ones)  support both BTC/CNY and LTC/CNY.   

IIRC, Litecoin was started by Charlie Lee, brother of BTC-China's CEO Bobby Lee (who is now in the Board of Directors of The Shrem Karpelès & Friends Foundation).

[othe]

Has a reason OKCoin is excluded from Coinmarketcap - people suppose that their volume is faked.

Well Charlie works for Coinbase, but what happens? nothing.
And they didnt even port the 0.9 Bitcoin branch; not sure what they are doing but it seems not much tbh.

[Queeq]

There is a coin called Credits (by now) being developed targeted for instant confirmations. It is said to be based on Proof of Consensus (which seems to be some kind of distributed voting for a block). I would like to ask someone knowledgeable in Game theory/statistics to take a look at the theory laying behind it. This message and the following discussion.

Thanks.

[BitCoinDream]

monero is an exception and litecoin is the china bitcoin, thats not a myth

This is something new I'm hearing. They have alt for almost everything...

Google => Baidu

Twitter => Weibo

Facebook => Renren

Amazon => Alibaba

...and now

Bitcoin => Litecoin

Thats non sense, Litecoin adoption in china is nearly non existent except from speculative reason and some exchanges who added them.
If some coin gets really big in china except Bitcoin then it will be something that comes out of china directly.

And please...that Amazon and Alibaba comparison, i guess u never used Alibaba, its mainly a B2B channel like made-in-china, globalsources, doba, tradekey and dhgate.

If you want to compare Amazon to something you are better off with taobao (also owned by alibaba).

I'm not backing the opinion of Litecoin to be Chinese Bitcoin. Someone said it and hence I picked up the comparison.

Regarding Alibaba. No I have never used it. I have never used Amazon either. I have FlipKart, SnapDeal etc from my country to meet the huge demand

[aminorex]

A fair bit of Anotheranonlol's screed was derisory to me personally, so I will respond out of a sense of obligation to represent, but I can't take time to respond to the entirety, so I will hit the highlights, starting with the headline complaint about XMR, then moving on to the bits directly pertinent to my public face:

Nobody is making a cult around zoidberg, Ask for an objective, outsider perspective on XMR and BBR; which one seems more more cult-like, which one seems more like a forced meme. XMR has multiple threads consistently pushed to the front page, fireside chats, monero missives, Random sprinklings of TA, big secret news that can't be spoken about yet, continual references that this is the silver to Bitcoins gold, that it is the ONLY alt worth investing in, subtle reminders that 'it won't stay cheap for long'.

* Multiple threads consistently pushed to the front page

There are a lot of people interested in monero, and they specialize threads topically because otherwise the traffic would be overwhelming and the amount of stuff you're not interested in would obscure the stuff you're interested in.
There seem to be a couple of ditto head sock puppets which occasionally show up, but for the most part you're just complaining about the large user community and organic growth -- bullish characteristics, not cultish ones.

* Fireside chats, monero missives

So developers communicate well.  How is this a negative?  Openness, coherent vision, strong community support.  It is irrational to deride these, unless your agenda is to attack.  I'm not saying your agenda is to attack.  I am saying that if it is not, then you are irrational, and to be marginalized, while if it is, then you are on team FUD, and to be marginalized.  Hopefully, this dilemma is false.  It is entirely up to you to find a third way.

* Random sprinklings of TA

Some people try to use technical analysis to find buy and sell points.  Most people are interested in what the future holds.  I can't see how this makes the community cult-like.

* big secret news that can't be spoken about yet

Are you projecting p&d coin marketing behaviour onto the XMR community, where it doesn't exist?  (Well it does exist, but only among very marginal characters, few in number.)  Occasionally events are planned in advance.  If you want to know more about them, instead of regarding that as a sinister plan, why not just ask the planners?

* continual references that this is the silver to Bitcoins gold

Like litecoin in the past.  I strongly disagree.  I consider XMR to be the uranium to bitcoin's coal, undiscovered value, which technological advance will one day differentiate.  

People who like XMR don't want to seem delusional to those who don't understand the compelling fundamental case for XMR, so they give it the lesser role, following the model of litecoin promoters in times past.  It's a rational strategy, not a cultish behaviour, although I disagree with it.

* it is the ONLY alt worth investing in

It is the only alt which has a leadership position in competition for what may be the largest market opportunity in history:  Primary provider of global, instant, private liquidity.  That does discriminate it from all other coins.  That doesn't mean that other crypto is not investable.  It does mean that by far the largest potential gains are in XMR.  

Refute my logic, please.  Don't use smears and emotional blackmail.  Facts and logic, please.  I will defend my position as long as I consider it tenable, and change it once I consider it refuted, and thank you for it.  But if you use fallacious or sophistical persuations, I will consider you an enemy of truth itself, at least until you repent.

* subtle reminders that 'it won't stay cheap for long'

This is a direct consequence of the previous point.

I picked out a few quotes below.

As long as my credit is good, I am a buyer long past the point of despair.  When I start to feel the fear and depression, I cheer myself up by buying more.  I take some amphetamine and a shot of whiskey, if that's what it takes.  

Until people have obligations which can only be discharged in monero, there are no forced buyers, and volatility extremes will persist.  Just about the only thing that can give you a permanent loss is selling - especially forced sales from leverage.

Tell me what is irrational about my post, please?  I counsel against emotional investing.  I advocate an investment because I consider it beneficial.  I warn that it will be volatile.  I encourage discipline in holding to a long-term plan.  I counsel against excess leverage.  I do it in a colloquial style, with a dash of flourish, which may not be adapted to your humor, but these are sound, responsible positions.

I just got a new convert.  A rates trader at Metlife took a few thousand from me as a tail hedge.  A miniscule position, but I suspect he will become a repeat customer and tell his friends.

I will be meeting with an fx option market maker later, and a hedge fund manager when we can work out a mutual time.  Also looking into contacts with a rather largish fixed income fund for meetups the next time I hit nyc.

..snip...

I might line up a presentation on monero at one or more btc nyc meetups or at the nyc bitcoin center.  Not by me, but by a friend who is better suited to the task.

In future I may line up some seminar groups in London, Hong Kong, and or Shanghai.

Oh and I will be having beers tomorrow after work with an SVP from Two Sigma.  XMR will not be neglected.

Like Mr. Blankfein, I feel I am doing God' s work.

I didn't see any BBR supporters talking like that just yet.

So BBR supporters are not pro-actively seeking to introduce BBR to the investment community, but I am seeking to introduce XMR to the investment community.  I don't see this as a problem for XMR, personally.  I am somewhat torn between the opposing considerations that lower prices now (which will probably be less volatile that would be higher prices at this early stage) aid in dispersion of the coin, and hence in the development of an organic economy, and the opposite consideration, that popularizing the investment potential will help focus capital formation in hands which are invested in XMR, and have an interest in seeing its economy grow.  I am technical more than entreprenurial, so I see more leverage in sparking capital formation for investment in the XMR economy than I do in anything I am likely to initiate myself, directly, at least for the time-being.  Hence I have chosen the latter.

Perhaps when BBR supporters start talking like that, on a sound basis, then BBR will exhibit more growth.  Frankly, I think that trying to convince a propdesk trader that his job will be safe if he buys more 'boolberries'  is a losing proposition.

The "god's work" comment has two subtexts:  

1) Derision of Mr. Blankfein's comment, and hence a self-deprecating humor, and

2) Allusion to the win-win characteristic of spreading XMR.

Now that DOES make it cult-like in one superficial way, but with many critical differences:  Proselytizing XMR is a rational ploy, open and honest, based on facts and logic, and materially beneficial to all parties.  The only material similarity to classic examples of cults is that it involves proselytization.  All decent and commedable capitalism should be win-win, unlike today's negative-sum crapcoin fest, red in tooth and claw.  Yes, I see XMR as "god's work" in that sense.  Also in the sense of "for this purpose was the son of God manifest:  to destroy the work of the evil one".  Scamcoins created to steal from the gullible are very much a satanic playground, in my view.  Do you disagree?

Don't even think that's the worst of the bunch. Sure I heard someone saying they will ask their employer to get paid in XMR or quit.

Me again.  I haven't done it yet, but a little more FU money in the bank, and I may do it.  On the other hand, the permanent position is very appealling, and won't be paid in XMR under any circumstances, so it seems increasingly unlikely to happen.  It does appeal to my sense of whimsy.  It also appeals to my senses of personal integrity (to walk like I talk) and of self-interest (stacking XMR).

My reading of your rambling complaint is that you find facts, logic and humor to be offensive to your sensibilities.  I can't really object to that, but would warn you that retuning your sensibilities may be a desirable adaptation to reality, and a health-positive choice.

[sonoIO]

Aminorex, i usually find your post eye openers, agree with them, or just like humor in them. OK, some of them i have problem reading without English dictionary, and few of them do not have time to try to understand just yet due to my lack of knowledge of economics. But some things i can understand, and i can not agree unconditionally with your argument of liquidity regarding Monero, simply because i do not think that CNs are used for real "purposes" - atm they are used mainly for speculation. "Real word" usage may turn tides on no 1. privacy currency, only time can tell which it will be imo.

... I am somewhat torn between the opposing considerations that lower prices now (which will probably be less volatile that would be higher prices at this early stage) aid in dispersion of the coin, and hence in the development of an organic economy, and the opposite consideration, that popularizing the investment potential will help focus capital formation in hands which are invested in XMR, and have an interest in seeing its economy grow....

That is exactly the reason i think Monero will be overtaken by BBR. Monero just has to steep curve to be properly distributed without large mining-marketing campain (especially as large ammount of ppl do not have money or frictonless channels to buy it at exchanges). Things would be different if it was released at a beginning of cryprocurrency hipe, but now Monero will spend large amount of life in time period that is skeptical to cryprocurrencies - which will affect its distribution to extent that will not reach satisfactory nettwork effect imo.

Perhaps when BBR supporters start talking like that, on a sound basis, then BBR will exhibit more growth.  Frankly, I think that trying to convince a propdesk trader that his job will be safe if he buys more 'boolberries'  is a losing proposition.

[darkota]

Aminorex, i usually find your post eye openers, agree with them, or just like humor in them. OK, some of them i have problem reading without English dictionary, and few of them do not have time to try to understand just yet due to my lack of knowledge of economics. But some things i can understand, and i can not agree unconditionally with your argument of liquidity regarding Monero, simply because i do not think that CNs are used for real "purposes" - atm they are used mainly for speculation. "Real word" usage may turn tides on no 1. privacy currency, only time can tell which it will be imo.

... I am somewhat torn between the opposing considerations that lower prices now (which will probably be less volatile that would be higher prices at this early stage) aid in dispersion of the coin, and hence in the development of an organic economy, and the opposite consideration, that popularizing the investment potential will help focus capital formation in hands which are invested in XMR, and have an interest in seeing its economy grow....

That is exactly the reason i think Monero will be overtaken by BBR. Monero just has to steep curve to be properly distributed without large mining-marketing campain. Things would be different if it was released at a beginning of cryprocurrency hipe, but now Monero will spend large amount of life in time period that is skeptical to cryprocurrencies - which will affect its distribution to extent that will not reach satisfactory nettwork effect imo. Generally, comparing XMR to BTC is too far stretched. Bitcoin has whole industry behind it which will make it no 1 store of value for a long time to come. I used to think high of XMR, but now i think that shillers, and FUDsters of BBR, can not replace whole BTC industry. Further, XMR will not have army of GPU miners to come to support it in the near future, and BBR just might

Perhaps when BBR supporters start talking like that, on a sound basis, then BBR will exhibit more growth.  Frankly, I think that trying to convince a propdesk trader that his job will be safe if he buys more 'boolberries'  is a losing proposition.

"Things would be different if it was released at a beginning of cryprocurrency hipe, but now Monero will spend large amount of life in time period that is skeptical to cryprocurrencies"- That makes absolutely no sense. By following your reasoning, then no cryptocurrency(Bitcoin included) can be accepted by mainstream, since NO Cryptocurrency is mainstream yet. None. Your entire post makes no sense.

Having a faster emission curve is Better, especially since the future of cryptocurrencies is unsure of, bitcoin could die off completely within the next 5 years, or reach astronomical heights. Boolberries slow emission curve makes its instamine all the more worse as well...

[sonoIO]

I'll separate this following things addressed to aminorex.

Generally, comparing XMR to BTC is too far stretched. Bitcoin has whole industry behind it which will make it no 1 store of value for a long time to come. I used to think high of XMR, but now i think that shillers, and FUDsters of BBR, can not replace whole BTC industry. Further, XMR will not have army of GPU miners to come to support it in the near future, and BBR just might

[sonoIO]

Aminorex, i usually find your post eye openers, agree with them, or just like humor in them. OK, some of them i have problem reading without English dictionary, and few of them do not have time to try to understand just yet due to my lack of knowledge of economics. But some things i can understand, and i can not agree unconditionally with your argument of liquidity regarding Monero, simply because i do not think that CNs are used for real "purposes" - atm they are used mainly for speculation. "Real word" usage may turn tides on no 1. privacy currency, only time can tell which it will be imo.

... I am somewhat torn between the opposing considerations that lower prices now (which will probably be less volatile that would be higher prices at this early stage) aid in dispersion of the coin, and hence in the development of an organic economy, and the opposite consideration, that popularizing the investment potential will help focus capital formation in hands which are invested in XMR, and have an interest in seeing its economy grow....

That is exactly the reason i think Monero will be overtaken by BBR. Monero just has to steep curve to be properly distributed without large mining-marketing campain. Things would be different if it was released at a beginning of cryprocurrency hipe, but now Monero will spend large amount of life in time period that is skeptical to cryprocurrencies - which will affect its distribution to extent that will not reach satisfactory nettwork effect imo. Generally, comparing XMR to BTC is too far stretched. Bitcoin has whole industry behind it which will make it no 1 store of value for a long time to come. I used to think high of XMR, but now i think that shillers, and FUDsters of BBR, can not replace whole BTC industry. Further, XMR will not have army of GPU miners to come to support it in the near future, and BBR just might

Perhaps when BBR supporters start talking like that, on a sound basis, then BBR will exhibit more growth.  Frankly, I think that trying to convince a propdesk trader that his job will be safe if he buys more 'boolberries'  is a losing proposition.

"Things would be different if it was released at a beginning of cryprocurrency hipe, but now Monero will spend large amount of life in time period that is skeptical to cryprocurrencies"- That makes absolutely no sense. By following your reasoning, then no cryptocurrency(Bitcoin included) can be accepted by mainstream, since NO Cryptocurrency is mainstream yet. None. Your entire post makes no sense.

I'll explain. Adoption of cryptocurrencies comes in "waves" obviously. XMR was released in "downtrend" of  a cryptocurrency wave (i.e. after November 2013, and before new "uptrend"). XMR problem is that its curve is steep making a point of release more important to BBRs. Hope this makes it more clear

[darkota]

I'll separate this following things addressed to aminorex.

Generally, comparing XMR to BTC is too far stretched. Bitcoin has whole industry behind it which will make it no 1 store of value for a long time to come. I used to think high of XMR, but now i think that shillers, and FUDsters of BBR, can not replace whole BTC industry. Further, XMR will not have army of GPU miners to come to support it in the near future, and BBR just might

That also makes no sense. You base your outlook of a coin, on the amount of shilling you see. If everyone did that, then no one would even touch Bitcoin, as you can see there's a endless amount of shilling over it..

Army of GPU miners to support it in the near future? What? XMR already has GPU mining, and unlike boolberry there wasnt a private gpu miner owned by One person. getting 90% of the coins per day.

[darkota]

Aminorex, i usually find your post eye openers, agree with them, or just like humor in them. OK, some of them i have problem reading without English dictionary, and few of them do not have time to try to understand just yet due to my lack of knowledge of economics. But some things i can understand, and i can not agree unconditionally with your argument of liquidity regarding Monero, simply because i do not think that CNs are used for real "purposes" - atm they are used mainly for speculation. "Real word" usage may turn tides on no 1. privacy currency, only time can tell which it will be imo.

... I am somewhat torn between the opposing considerations that lower prices now (which will probably be less volatile that would be higher prices at this early stage) aid in dispersion of the coin, and hence in the development of an organic economy, and the opposite consideration, that popularizing the investment potential will help focus capital formation in hands which are invested in XMR, and have an interest in seeing its economy grow....

That is exactly the reason i think Monero will be overtaken by BBR. Monero just has to steep curve to be properly distributed without large mining-marketing campain. Things would be different if it was released at a beginning of cryprocurrency hipe, but now Monero will spend large amount of life in time period that is skeptical to cryprocurrencies - which will affect its distribution to extent that will not reach satisfactory nettwork effect imo. Generally, comparing XMR to BTC is too far stretched. Bitcoin has whole industry behind it which will make it no 1 store of value for a long time to come. I used to think high of XMR, but now i think that shillers, and FUDsters of BBR, can not replace whole BTC industry. Further, XMR will not have army of GPU miners to come to support it in the near future, and BBR just might

Perhaps when BBR supporters start talking like that, on a sound basis, then BBR will exhibit more growth.  Frankly, I think that trying to convince a propdesk trader that his job will be safe if he buys more 'boolberries'  is a losing proposition.

"Things would be different if it was released at a beginning of cryprocurrency hipe, but now Monero will spend large amount of life in time period that is skeptical to cryprocurrencies"- That makes absolutely no sense. By following your reasoning, then no cryptocurrency(Bitcoin included) can be accepted by mainstream, since NO Cryptocurrency is mainstream yet. None. Your entire post makes no sense.

I'll explain. Adoption of cryptocurrencies comes in "waves" obviously. XMR was released in "downtrend" cryptocurrency wave. XMR problem is that its curve is steep making a point of release more important to BBRs. Hope this makes it more clear

That also makes no sense.

XMR was released when Bitcoin started to pick up in the price in April, after the MT.Gox failure. It was released during a Bitcoin Uptrend, not downtrend...

[aminorex]

i can not agree unconditionally with your argument of liquidity regarding Monero, simply because i do not think that CNs are used for real "purposes" - atm they are used mainly for speculation. "Real word" usage may turn tides on no 1. privacy currency, only time can tell which it will be imo.

The leadership is clearly overwhelmingly in XMR at the moment  - by a market cap factor > 32x.  You consider the emission schedule of BBR to offer some competitive advantage during the phase prior to development of an organic economy.  I would like to understand that better.  It will have to be an overwhelming advantage indeed to surmount a factor of more that 32x.

...Monero just has to steep curve to be properly distributed without large mining-marketing campain... Monero will spend large amount of life in time period that is skeptical to cryprocurrencies - which will affect its distribution to extent that will not reach satisfactory nettwork effect imo. ... Further, XMR will not have army of GPU miners to come to support it in the near future, and BBR just might

Your argument seems to be that buyers will be few, so GPU miners are needed to increase dispersion.  I question whether GPU mining promotes dispersion more than CPU mining.  In fact I think the opposite is likely true.  Moreover, GPU mining has generally been more profitable in XMR than in BBR.  I think these points refute your argument.  Please correct my error.

Generally, comparing XMR to BTC is too far stretched.

That is precisely why XMR offers such an advantage to investors at this time.  The vision to see the likely end-game is sparsely distributed.  I work to distribute that vision more widely.

[sonoIO]

...Monero just has to steep curve to be properly distributed without large mining-marketing campain... Monero will spend large amount of life in time period that is skeptical to cryprocurrencies - which will affect its distribution to extent that will not reach satisfactory nettwork effect imo. ... Further, XMR will not have army of GPU miners to come to support it in the near future, and BBR just might

Your argument seems to be that buyers will be few, so GPU miners are needed to increase dispersion.  I question whether GPU mining promotes dispersion more than CPU mining.  In fact I think the opposite is likely true.  Moreover, GPU mining has generally been more profitable in XMR than in BBR.  I think these points refute your argument.  Please correct my error.

I argue that among enthusiast miners there are much more that GPU mine than CPU mine, simply because of fact that most other algos are mined by GPUs. I agree that CPU mining has larger potential, but not without marketing of mining, and i do not see that for XMR. About profitability of GPU mining XMR, sure - because XMR stands at 12x larger price than BBR, but exactly because that i feel that in the next episode BBR price might increase more than XMR. We will see

[sonoIO]

Aminorex, i usually find your post eye openers, agree with them, or just like humor in them. OK, some of them i have problem reading without English dictionary, and few of them do not have time to try to understand just yet due to my lack of knowledge of economics. But some things i can understand, and i can not agree unconditionally with your argument of liquidity regarding Monero, simply because i do not think that CNs are used for real "purposes" - atm they are used mainly for speculation. "Real word" usage may turn tides on no 1. privacy currency, only time can tell which it will be imo.

... I am somewhat torn between the opposing considerations that lower prices now (which will probably be less volatile that would be higher prices at this early stage) aid in dispersion of the coin, and hence in the development of an organic economy, and the opposite consideration, that popularizing the investment potential will help focus capital formation in hands which are invested in XMR, and have an interest in seeing its economy grow....

That is exactly the reason i think Monero will be overtaken by BBR. Monero just has to steep curve to be properly distributed without large mining-marketing campain. Things would be different if it was released at a beginning of cryprocurrency hipe, but now Monero will spend large amount of life in time period that is skeptical to cryprocurrencies - which will affect its distribution to extent that will not reach satisfactory nettwork effect imo. Generally, comparing XMR to BTC is too far stretched. Bitcoin has whole industry behind it which will make it no 1 store of value for a long time to come. I used to think high of XMR, but now i think that shillers, and FUDsters of BBR, can not replace whole BTC industry. Further, XMR will not have army of GPU miners to come to support it in the near future, and BBR just might

Perhaps when BBR supporters start talking like that, on a sound basis, then BBR will exhibit more growth.  Frankly, I think that trying to convince a propdesk trader that his job will be safe if he buys more 'boolberries'  is a losing proposition.

"Things would be different if it was released at a beginning of cryprocurrency hipe, but now Monero will spend large amount of life in time period that is skeptical to cryprocurrencies"- That makes absolutely no sense. By following your reasoning, then no cryptocurrency(Bitcoin included) can be accepted by mainstream, since NO Cryptocurrency is mainstream yet. None. Your entire post makes no sense.

I'll explain. Adoption of cryptocurrencies comes in "waves" obviously. XMR was released in "downtrend" cryptocurrency wave. XMR problem is that its curve is steep making a point of release more important to BBRs. Hope this makes it more clear

That also makes no sense.

XMR was released when Bitcoin started to pick up in the price in April, after the MT.Gox failure. It was released during a Bitcoin Uptrend, not downtrend...

I'm talking about waves with large wavelengths

[darkota]

Aminorex, i usually find your post eye openers, agree with them, or just like humor in them. OK, some of them i have problem reading without English dictionary, and few of them do not have time to try to understand just yet due to my lack of knowledge of economics. But some things i can understand, and i can not agree unconditionally with your argument of liquidity regarding Monero, simply because i do not think that CNs are used for real "purposes" - atm they are used mainly for speculation. "Real word" usage may turn tides on no 1. privacy currency, only time can tell which it will be imo.

... I am somewhat torn between the opposing considerations that lower prices now (which will probably be less volatile that would be higher prices at this early stage) aid in dispersion of the coin, and hence in the development of an organic economy, and the opposite consideration, that popularizing the investment potential will help focus capital formation in hands which are invested in XMR, and have an interest in seeing its economy grow....

That is exactly the reason i think Monero will be overtaken by BBR. Monero just has to steep curve to be properly distributed without large mining-marketing campain. Things would be different if it was released at a beginning of cryprocurrency hipe, but now Monero will spend large amount of life in time period that is skeptical to cryprocurrencies - which will affect its distribution to extent that will not reach satisfactory nettwork effect imo. Generally, comparing XMR to BTC is too far stretched. Bitcoin has whole industry behind it which will make it no 1 store of value for a long time to come. I used to think high of XMR, but now i think that shillers, and FUDsters of BBR, can not replace whole BTC industry. Further, XMR will not have army of GPU miners to come to support it in the near future, and BBR just might

Perhaps when BBR supporters start talking like that, on a sound basis, then BBR will exhibit more growth.  Frankly, I think that trying to convince a propdesk trader that his job will be safe if he buys more 'boolberries'  is a losing proposition.

"Things would be different if it was released at a beginning of cryprocurrency hipe, but now Monero will spend large amount of life in time period that is skeptical to cryprocurrencies"- That makes absolutely no sense. By following your reasoning, then no cryptocurrency(Bitcoin included) can be accepted by mainstream, since NO Cryptocurrency is mainstream yet. None. Your entire post makes no sense.

I'll explain. Adoption of cryptocurrencies comes in "waves" obviously. XMR was released in "downtrend" cryptocurrency wave. XMR problem is that its curve is steep making a point of release more important to BBRs. Hope this makes it more clear

That also makes no sense.

XMR was released when Bitcoin started to pick up in the price in April, after the MT.Gox failure. It was released during a Bitcoin Uptrend, not downtrend...

I'm talking about waves with large wavelengths

waves with large wavelengths......................ok...  

[dga]

I'll separate this following things addressed to aminorex.

Generally, comparing XMR to BTC is too far stretched. Bitcoin has whole industry behind it which will make it no 1 store of value for a long time to come. I used to think high of XMR, but now i think that shillers, and FUDsters of BBR, can not replace whole BTC industry. Further, XMR will not have army of GPU miners to come to support it in the near future, and BBR just might

That also makes no sense. You base your outlook of a coin, on the amount of shilling you see. If everyone did that, then no one would even touch Bitcoin, as you can see there's a endless amount of shilling over it..

Army of GPU miners to support it in the near future? What? XMR already has GPU mining, and unlike boolberry there wasnt a private gpu miner owned by One person. getting 90% of the coins per day.

Darkota, do you actually *read* any of the replies to your posts?  Please scroll back and see my (numerous) responses to this absolute crap you keep trying to spread.  If you have a substantive reply to them, you have yet to have posted it beyond ignoring reality.  Now you're up to 90% of the coins being mined by Christian?  Within a month, it'll be 110%!

XMR and BBR had very similar degrees of private-miner-advantaged mining.  I'm utterly certain of this, unless I'm mis-counting the zeros in my bank account from the fun-filled XMR days.

And it doesn't matter at all.  The advantaged miners are mostly out of the game, and both coins are almost entirely in the hands of the investors at this point.  We made a lot of money - thanks for that.  If XMR or BBR goes moonwardly, then the investors stand to make more;  the miner types were mostly in it for the short-term profit.

[Anotheranonlol]

long-ass wall of text coming..

* Multiple threads consistently pushed to the front page
There are a lot of people interested in monero, and they specialize threads topically because otherwise the traffic would be overwhelming and the amount of stuff you're not interested in would obscure the stuff you're interested in.
There seem to be a couple of ditto head sock puppets which occasionally show up, but for the most part you're just complaining about the large user community and organic growth -- bullish characteristics, not cultish ones.

The point I was addressing was the fact that Boolberry users are apparently members of a cult, cults push their agendas & ideologies. Out of both, who is really pushing on this forum?

quick search for XMR..  ignoring XMR vs ..xxx,and pool advertising threads

[XMR] rpietila Monero Economics thread
Monero (XMR) Speculation thread
Monero Economy
CoinDesk censors Monero, loses credibility
monerotalk.org - new forum about Monero XMR
Petitioning Major outlets and Exchanges for Monero
Done something useful for the monero community? Petition for compensation here.
[XMR] Monero Community FAQ
Monero Community Hall of Fame <-
(Unofficial) XMR Community Monero FAQ thread
Monero Support
Monero Development and Engineering
Monero / XMR Wall & Difficulty Observer / Trading Speculation Thread
Thread for when Monero reaches 0.015
etc.

I'm all for topical threads but there's a point when it becomes OTT. That's page 1 of 10. Do we really need 2 speculation threads, 2 economics threads, 2 community FAQ threads, 2 community hall of fames..majority of things like 'support' and FAQ should be answered in the OP of the main thread to avoid clutter. This thread itself is dominated largely by discussion about XMR too.

* Fireside chats, monero missives

So developers communicate well.  How is this a negative?  Openness, coherent vision, strong community support.  It is irrational to deride these, unless your agenda is to attack.  I'm not saying your agenda is to attack.  I am saying that if it is not, then you are irrational, and to be marginalized, while if it is, then you are on team FUD, and to be marginalized.  Hopefully, this dilemma is false.  It is entirely up to you to find a third way.

Do you know who else organized fireside chats? satanistic bonfire cults! (ok that was a joke) but 'monero missives' - both of them give me the heebie jeebies just hearing it. I feel like I'm in Jonestown here.  I don't want to warm my toes and roast marshmallows and I don't want to read captains logs. Just a plain ol' monero chat and weekly report is fine with me. Little less eccentric, doesn't sound quite as exclusive though. You probably don't understand because you are an eccentric man yourself along with large amount of OP's followers, also especially interested with ascending to the top with a smaller circle, that's why you spend so much time flirting with OP.  That much can be gleaned just from the way you type.  The average crypto speculator doesn't even know what a missive is. It's a turn-off to some. Not that you care at this point since the longer it stays underground the more chance you got to buy up all the sweet xmr you can possibly hold, and you believe it's inevitable it will surface obviously

 "I am to be marginalized"  "you are on team FUD"  I'm what now? According to OP's distribution model last I checked was in top 20, top 10 almost of XMR holders. Honestly not sure where he conjured the numbers from or how accurate that is, but I can assure you I couldn't give less of a shit about buying in lower nor increasing xmr stash. I made a relatively small buy and will pretty much just let that sit for a year minimum. No plans no to sell barring a real unplanned emergency, frankly it could go to 0 and I probably would be too lazy to sell, (same goes for BBR). Likewise no plans to buy more barring some earth-shattering update. According to OP's revised statements, he knows this coin will go 1000x in fiat terms- although not sure in what timeframe. So that's good I guess. I can chill out for a bit then buy a fleet of gulfstreams.. - as long as that's in the next 40 years or so that would be nice. Judging by how much effort you put into evangelizing this you surely should have poured more BTC in than me. So what will you be able to buy?  

* Random sprinklings of TA

Some people try to use technical analysis to find buy and sell points.  Most people are interested in what the future holds.  I can't see how this makes the community cult-like.

My views on trying to apply Tea leaf analysis to an emerging altcoin is probably summed up by the way I described it, so will leave it there. It's not cult-like it's just a somewhat self-fullfilling prophecy once you have one guy with a good knack at noticing patterns, and a bunch of people that will circle-jerk over support lines, trend indicators and follow the postings. People eat it up because TA is something you only see in big-boy markets, and we all want to feel like big boys here.

* big secret news that can't be spoken about yet

Are you projecting p&d coin marketing behaviour onto the XMR community, where it doesn't exist?  (Well it does exist, but only among very marginal characters, few in number.)  Occasionally events are planned in advance.  If you want to know more about them, instead of regarding that as a sinister plan, why not just ask the planners?

Actually the news, that can't be revealed yet but is big enough to warrant buying is pretty much verbatim from what I've read.

And What you talk about with wining and dining hedge fund managers & SVP's from Two sigma -- tipping them off about diversifying into a cryptonote fork listed on poloniex, bittrex is nothing more than sexed up pumping. You even though yeah why not add a couple of fintech epicentres, london and shanghai into the mix for dramatic effect. Just needs a few buzzwords.  There's absolutely no reason to have posted what you posted unless you wanted to affect sentiment, or perhaps it was just an excuse to make yourself sound good. I'd wager a bit of both -- the fact is if you posted that in dogecoin thread you would get laughed out and labelled a cheap pumper. If you didn't say write it in such an eloquent way amongst a home crowd you would have also been dismissed as a dreamer.  
.

* it is the ONLY alt worth investing in

It is the only alt which has a leadership position in competition for what may be the largest market opportunity in history:  Primary provider of global, instant, private liquidity.  That does discriminate it from all other coins.  That doesn't mean that other crypto is not investable.  It does mean that by far the largest potential gains are in XMR.  

Refute my logic, please.  Don't use smears and emotional blackmail.  Facts and logic, please.  I will defend my position as long as I consider it tenable, and change it once I consider it refuted, and thank you for it.  But if you use fallacious or sophistical persuations, I will consider you an enemy of truth itself, at least until you repent.

woah, calm down there. You seem like I've insulted your religion or something. I'm not an enemy of the truth of a warrior of the dark or whatnot, XMR is simply not the only coin with a leadership position for the largest market opportunity in history. Also this is a blatant exagerration. As as been said before in this thread, it's one horse against many. BTC is perfectly fine for the ones who are actually aware of it, they don't even have a concern for more privacy. Overwhelming portion of the world has never touched BTC.  Plenty will be happy to use intermediate but 'perfectly good enough' anon coins like darkcoin, BTC has been battle tested, as far as I know even origin of curve params used in monero is not clear, Primary provider of global instant liquidity, getting a little ahead of yourself there.

* subtle reminders that 'it won't stay cheap for long'

This is a direct consequence of the previous point.

If you say so.

Tell me what is irrational about my post, please?  I counsel against emotional investing.  I advocate an investment because I consider it beneficial.  I warn that it will be volatile.  I encourage discipline in holding to a long-term plan.  I counsel against excess leverage.  I do it in a colloquial style, with a dash of flourish, which may not be adapted to your humor, but these are sound, responsible positions

.

What's irrational? well maybe the part about when you get depressed about a decline you'll resort to a meth binge washed down with southern comfort and just keep on buying up past the point of despair. Don't they have a name for that. irrational exuberance or something, gambling addiction?

So BBR supporters are not pro-actively seeking to introduce BBR to the investment community, but I am seeking to introduce XMR to the investment community.  I don't see this as a problem for XMR, personally.  I am somewhat torn between the opposing considerations that lower prices now (which will probably be less volatile that would be higher prices at this early stage) aid in dispersion of the coin, and hence in the development of an organic economy, and the opposite consideration, that popularizing the investment potential will help focus capital formation in hands which are invested in XMR, and have an interest in seeing its economy grow.  I am technical more than entreprenurial, so I see more leverage in sparking capital formation for investment in the XMR economy than I do in anything I am likely to initiate myself, directly, at least for the time-being.  Hence I have chosen the latter.

Perhaps when BBR supporters start talking like that, on a sound basis, then BBR will exhibit more growth.  Frankly, I think that trying to convince a propdesk trader that his job will be safe if he buys more 'boolberries'  is a losing proposition.

Very true, maybe you can try convincing that propdesk trader to buy into your same alpha-level, command-line based cryptonote fork. What's a ring signature he'll ask?  'it says it's not compatible with my version of windows' 'It's trying to download a 2gb file to my hard disk' he'll complain.

Go and read our missives and join our fireside chat on i2p you'll say presumably? our lead devs 'tacotime' and 'fluffypony' will walk you through the process. And he'll shake your hand and say, gee..thanks aminorex, Sounds legit. You saved my career.. Behave yourself

hey, maybe he'll come back a little later and say he heard about BBR and how XMR is the same thing just orders of magnitude more expensive, and ask why is this exactly? and you'll explain it was launched a month later and the name wasn't as good.

The "god's work" comment has two subtexts:  

1) Derision of Mr. Blankfein's comment, and hence a self-deprecating humor, and

2) Allusion to the win-win characteristic of spreading XMR.

Now that DOES make it cult-like in one superficial way, but with many critical differences:  Proselytizing XMR is a rational ploy, open and honest, based on facts and logic, and materially beneficial to all parties.  The only material similarity to classic examples of cults is that it involves proselytization.  All decent and commedable capitalism should be win-win, unlike today's negative-sum crapcoin fest, red in tooth and claw.  Yes, I see XMR as "god's work" in that sense.  Also in the sense of "for this purpose was the son of God manifest:  to destroy the work of the evil one".  Scamcoins created to steal from the gullible are very much a satanic playground, in my view.  Do you disagree?

I don't disagree. I don't for a second think this is a scamcoin, nor do I think because a rise is somewhat artificially accelerated that a dump and stagnation, then gradual decline towards 0 is precipitated. I'm simply sick of hearing too much XMR and not enough BBR. As I wrote before I think BBR is a more likely candidate for a 2x,3x, 5x rise, therefore I see it as disingenuous to promote XMR and not mention BBR.

Me again.  I haven't done it yet, but a little more FU money in the bank, and I may do it.  On the other hand, the permanent position is very appealling, and won't be paid in XMR under any circumstances, so it seems increasingly unlikely to happen.  It does appeal to my sense of whimsy.  It also appeals to my senses of personal integrity (to walk like I talk) and of self-interest (stacking XMR).

My reading of your rambling complaint is that you find facts, logic and humor to be offensive to your sensibilities.  I can't really object to that, but would warn you that retuning your sensibilities may be a desirable adaptation to reality, and a health-positive choice.

don't find facts, logic and humor to be offensive. just think let's keep some feet on the ground.  Sometimes less is more. You don't need to be rambling about getting paid in XMR any-time soon

[dEBRUYNE]

Crosspost from speculation thread:

Looks like we have broken the downtrend:



Also nice support @ 0.0034-0.0035. Think this is the reversal! Not sure if we will rockit from here, but probably the downtrend has ended.

EDIT: 4h MACD also turning green!

[iourzzz]

Litecoin adoption in china is nearly non existent except from speculative reason and some exchanges who added them.

Last December the Chinese government banned any use of cryptocurrencies, including both Bitcoin and Litecoin, except for speculative trade.

I haven't checked how the volumes are evolving, but  the largest exchanges (Huobi and OKCoin, much bigger than BTC-China and the western ones)  support both BTC/CNY and LTC/CNY.   

IIRC, Litecoin was started by Charlie Lee, brother of BTC-China's CEO Bobby Lee (who is now in the Board of Directors of The Shrem Karpelès & Friends Foundation).

I accidentally saw a video posted recently in litecoin reddit. They are still talking about Litecoin targeting the silver of Bitcoin gold just because Bitcoin is going to be too much expensive for daily transactions. LMAO. Just this alone can indicate about their "unlimited" progress...