rpietila Altcoin Observer

[crypto_zoidberg]

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https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=740112.0
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Seems that it's Monero building cult around Zoiberg

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[aminorex]

Seems that it's Monero building cult around Zoiberg

Is that you, Andrei?

[drawingthesun]

So in case people just follow this thread and ignore the alt forum in general like I normally do, I thought I'd post this since it's somewhat relevant to the general discussion here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=740112.0

Bytecoin being a scam is not new. But the rest of it starts getting crazy and I'm wondering what's up.

edit: The crypto_zoidberg stuff seems a bit out there, but I don't know. It's pretty clear though that Monero should continue distancing themselves from CN.

Well I've been saying this all along, only the Monero developers are being serious about this technology.

Bytecoin was entirely premined, why on Earth they thought that was going to fly I don't know, more people in Crypto need to start taking after Satoshi. When he released Bitcoin, even though many people did not take him seriously he still released the coin on one of the most popular mailing lists for Crypto nerds of the day.

The latest CryptoNote posts where they want to constantly dilute the CryptoNote market are suspect, almost like they are throwing a hissy fit because a community driven version of their technology now leads by a considerable margin (Monero).

And I really am not a fan of Zoidberg and his Boolberries, the technical difference is not substantial and the Monero developers have considered his work, they are not stupid. Monero development is happening steady and without all this developer worship that surrounds Boolberry, Dark and and also BitcoinDark.

[r0ach]

I just want to mention, from my point of view most important, major core changes in BBR is:

What's your comment on the real iceberg waiting to sink Cryptonote, such as only coins with pruning or balance sheets like "Cryptonite" (not Cryptonote) being able to implement Lamport signatures or other kind of defense.

[aminorex]

and also BitcoinDark.

Issues of religion aside, one known clever person advocated BTCD.   This means I must eventually (hopefully before it is too late) do diligence on it.  Signs are negative, but I have not reviewed content yet.  Do you have any substantive comment on BTCD's technicals?  Anyone?  Bueller?

[Este Nuno]

and also BitcoinDark.

Issues of religion aside, one known clever person advocated BTCD.   This means I must eventually (hopefully before it is too late) do diligence on it.  Signs are negative, but I have not reviewed content yet.  Do you have any substantive comment on BTCD's technicals?  Anyone?  Bueller?

Who was that?

jl777 released the whitepaper already and killerstorm gave a pretty negative review of it on reddit.

So far it sounds like jl777 just has stated a bunch of problems he intends to solve, but hasn't actually solved anything yet.

edit: by 'the whitepaper' i mean the one for 'teleport' or his anon tech.

[vuduchyld]

This is updated and cross-posted from another thread, for what it's worth.  You guys seem to like statistics and reality, and perhaps this is pertinent to the discussion.  

I've been working on some indexes specifically for alts.  Indexes were all balanced at 100 just eleven days ago at noon.  Info source is coinmarketcap.com

Latest, from about two hours ago:

Index 1: cap-weighted, includes all cryptos except BTC is now 75.36
Index 2: cap-weighted, includes all cryptos except BTC and LTC is now 80.68

(These indexes are imperfect because coinmarketcap has added 5 or 6 cryptos in the last eleven days, which skews them a little high.  Interesting that the HUGE dump by LTC has such an impact)

Index 3: cap-weighted, includes a basket of 31 NON-LTC cryptos selected by cap/volume metrics is now 73.58
Index 4: cap-weighted, includes the basket of 31 PLUS LTC is now 71.25

(I think Index 3 is actually the closest to what I'm trying to accomplish, which is to judge the general movement of the alt market as a whole.  I created Index 3 and intentionally left out LTC because it was so much larger than the rest of the alts and I wanted to gauge the movement of my portfolio against a representative sample.  Again, note that LTC influenced lower.)

Index 5: price-weighted version of Index 3 is now 70.17
Index 6: price-weighted version of Index 4 is now 69.25

(Dow Jones is price-weighted.  S&P, Russell, most others are cap weighted.  I just set these up to see if there would be much difference.  Again, LTC provides downward weight.)

Meta index is 73.38.  This contains elements of all above.  

My feeling is that Index 3 is the one that alt traders would find to be the most representative of general market direction, but I'm open to any feedback if y'all have some.  This weekend, I will re-balance the basket.  I'm using strict cap/volume statistics to mechanically re-balance.  Right now, the basket is 31 cryptos, but it's possible that it could drop to 26 or go up to 36 representative examples.  

I'm planning to seek out some help from somebody who can integrate API so that I can put some or all of these indexes up on a website that updates every 5 minutes along with coinmarketcap.com.  

TL:DR If your alt portfolio hasn't dropped by 26.42% in the last eleven days, you might be beating the market.  If this kind of info is helpful to you and/or if you can help me put together a simple website so that alt traders can access this info, hit me up.

For what it's worth, XMR hasn't changed much in relation to BTC during this time frame, but my start date is a bit arbitrary.  That just happens to be when I started, in part because I wanted to know how Monero was doing compared to other alts.  My start date happens to be just after XMR took a haircut versus BTC over a period of a couple of days.  I wanted to determine how bad that really was in the bigger picture.

edited to say "balanced at 100 just eleven days ago at noon" (had originally written nine, but that was incorrect.)

[Globb0]

Thanks interesting

[smooth]

and also BitcoinDark.

Issues of religion aside, one known clever person advocated BTCD.   This means I must eventually (hopefully before it is too late) do diligence on it.  Signs are negative, but I have not reviewed content yet.  Do you have any substantive comment on BTCD's technicals?  Anyone?  Bueller?

I can't take any pure PoS coin seriously at this time. Get some credible cryptographers to support the model and I'll pay attention.

Until then I consider it careless cryptography (developer thinks it will work but doesn't really know) at best, outright scam (developer doesn't really think it will work but doesn't care because if you keep talking long enough and sound like you know what you're talking about some will believe in it and you can pump-and-dump) at worst.

[drawingthesun]

Well I am selling all my Nxt as soon as I can, the fact that the community has shown that it will freeze any account that is inconvenient simply destroys all credibility they had, which being a pure POS wasn't much to begin with.

Somehow BTER's mistake will be somewhat handled by a community block is simply a joke, wasn't Nxt meant to be more decentralized than bitcoin?

[aminorex]

Issues of religion aside, one known clever person advocated BTCD.   This means I must eventually (hopefully before it is too late) do diligence on it.  Signs are negative, but I have not reviewed content yet.  Do you have any substantive comment on BTCD's technicals?  Anyone?  Bueller?

Who was that?

I don't want to identify someone as clever by name without more evidence than I have already, and pumping a scamcoin would be evidence that I had mistaken slyness for cleverness.

jl777 released the whitepaper already and killerstorm gave a pretty negative review of it on reddit.

Can't hope for much more than that for free, I guess.  It's a weak data point though - just consistent with priors, no new signal.  I guess I'll continue to ignore it.

[Este Nuno]

Well I am selling all my Nxt as soon as I can, the fact that the community has shown that it will freeze any account that is inconvenient simply destroys all credibility they had, which being a pure POS wasn't much to begin with.

Somehow BTER's mistake will be somewhat handled by a community block is simply a joke, wasn't Nxt meant to be more decentralized than bitcoin?

The community actually showed the opposite. It was clear that they were not going to support a rollback as evidenced by the lack of forging on that chain.

[Este Nuno]

Issues of religion aside, one known clever person advocated BTCD.   This means I must eventually (hopefully before it is too late) do diligence on it.  Signs are negative, but I have not reviewed content yet.  Do you have any substantive comment on BTCD's technicals?  Anyone?  Bueller?

Who was that?

I don't want to identify someone as clever by name without more evidence than I have already, and pumping a scamcoin would be evidence that I had mistaken slyness for cleverness.

jl777 released the whitepaper already and killerstorm gave a pretty negative review of it on reddit.

Can't hope for much more than that for free, I guess.  It's a weak data point though - just consistent with priors, no new signal.  I guess I'll continue to ignore it.

In any case I found the paper again:

http://www.jl777.org/darkpaper-teleport-revealed/

This doesn't sound like much to me. But I'm not qualified to pass judgement. Perhaps some other people here will take a took and share their opinions.

[drawingthesun]

Well I am selling all my Nxt as soon as I can, the fact that the community has shown that it will freeze any account that is inconvenient simply destroys all credibility they had, which being a pure POS wasn't much to begin with.

Somehow BTER's mistake will be somewhat handled by a community block is simply a joke, wasn't Nxt meant to be more decentralized than bitcoin?

The community actually showed the opposite. It was clear that they were not going to support a rollback as evidenced by the lack of forging on that chain.

This is good for them, but I am still out for now, the fact that this was on the table scares me.

It also presented an interesting argument about the trouble of large thefts of Nxt actually causing long term harm to the security of the Nxt chain, as each coin is essentially like a miner.

[aminorex]

Sounds like a bullish scalp of Nxt may be coming up then.  Disasters are a great time to catch dead cats before the bounce.

[devphp]

This is good for them, but I am still out for now, the fact that this was on the table scares me.

It also presented an interesting argument about the trouble of large thefts of Nxt actually causing long term harm to the security of the Nxt chain, as each coin is essentially like a miner.

You don't seriously expect full unanimity among hundreds or thousands of people, do you? Of course someone would suggest something like that, but it's 51% of the forging power that decides what to do, not forum users. So you may regret your decision to sell very soon. The price can take a dump in the near term, because of lack of liquidity at exchanges (bter was the biggest exchange) and many people wanting to get out, but longer term NXT will be stronger than before after this incident, because it functions exactly as designed.

[ShroomsKit_Disgrace]

Well I am selling all my Nxt as soon as I can, the fact that the community has shown that it will freeze any account that is inconvenient simply destroys all credibility they had, which being a pure POS wasn't much to begin with.

Somehow BTER's mistake will be somewhat handled by a community block is simply a joke, wasn't Nxt meant to be more decentralized than bitcoin?

drawingthesun, you are simply retarded (or you didnt read what happened).


If the majority of the forging power wants to forge in an alternative chain, it is the most decentralized decision ever made. Every forger has in his hands to forge or not the alternative chain.

[Joshuar]

Well I am selling all my Nxt as soon as I can, the fact that the community has shown that it will freeze any account that is inconvenient simply destroys all credibility they had, which being a pure POS wasn't much to begin with.

Somehow BTER's mistake will be somewhat handled by a community block is simply a joke, wasn't Nxt meant to be more decentralized than bitcoin?

drawingthesun, you are simply retarded (or you didnt read what happened).


If the majority of the forging power wants to forge in an alternative chain, it is the most decentralized decision ever made. Every forger has in his hands to forge or not the alternative chain.

Shroomskit. What you've said, would make any newbie in cryptos scared of ever touching nxt...

The forgers switching chains because of a theft would be horrible for a coin. Any cryptocoin that experiences that(like vericoin) will fade away, it won't be able to be called a "currency" anymore.

[ShroomsKit_Disgrace]

Well I am selling all my Nxt as soon as I can, the fact that the community has shown that it will freeze any account that is inconvenient simply destroys all credibility they had, which being a pure POS wasn't much to begin with.

Somehow BTER's mistake will be somewhat handled by a community block is simply a joke, wasn't Nxt meant to be more decentralized than bitcoin?

drawingthesun, you are simply retarded (or you didnt read what happened).


If the majority of the forging power wants to forge in an alternative chain, it is the most decentralized decision ever made. Every forger has in his hands to forge or not the alternative chain.

Shroomskit. What you've said, would make any newbie in cryptos scared of ever touching nxt...

The forgers switching chains because of a theft would be horrible for a coin. Any cryptocoin that experiences that(like vericoin) will fade away, it won't be able to be called a "currency" anymore.

Man, I am not saying it is bad or good for the coin, I am saying that whichever the solution is, it will be purely decentralized. The principle of dencetralized currency remains valid. That's all.

[drawingthesun]

Hey. I'm not sure if this is true but apparently Ethereum might use something called DPOS (1). I haven't read the paper yet (2) but according to (1) vitalik agrees that proof of work is dead.

I believe this needs serious analysis in case they are right and onto something.

(1) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=740684

(2) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=558316.0