[XCR] Crypti | Dapps | Sidechains | Dapp Store | OPEN SOURCE | 100% own code | DPoS

[MalReynolds]

Here is the first NXT thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.0 BCNext wrote:

<BCNext promises>

...before the killer app for end-user is out, we (Crypti) can't talk seriously about 1 USD per 1 XCR.

NXT had a lot of promises in the early days they retracted, mostly associated with "transparent forging" which was going to enable "1000 transactions per second".  NXT abandoned TPS as a significant goal and never pushed their coin as an alternative currency for widespread public use.  Instead, all the emphasis went to "Asset Exchange" so everybody could push get-rich-quick schemes in an unregulated sandbox "stock market".

Handling 1000 or even 100 transactions per second (TPS) would be a "killer app" nobody else has that would be totally in line with the Crypti  emphasis on commerce.  I think the DPos circle of 101 and only 101 forgers is a GREAT approach in this direction that should be leveraged for max TPS as the Crypti killer app.

[Passion_ltc]

I was thinking yesterday about Crypti and it's low marketcap. And I found that it just has not enough "selling points" for end-user. Yes, it has some "selling points" for investors, for example:
- wonderful team
- funding
- fair long-term plans and attitude

But it hasen't to much selling points/features for XCR regular user.
NEM has:
  1) beautiful wallet design. Crypti hasn't.
NXT has:
  1) beautiful wallet design
  2) in wallet asset exchange (so regular user can speculate there)
Bitshares has:
  1) DPOS
  2) Derivatives to make and play
Qora has
  1) Voting system

Today (in 2015) the ability to send and recieve virtual tokens in 1 minute is not enough.

The first selling point for XCR is DPOS, before that XCR is just bored  

Here is the first NXT thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.0 BCNext wrote:

I got some offers, on the launch or shortly after it we will have the following services:

1]  Faucet.  It will be funded by our donations
2]  Currency exchange.  Classical BTC-to-NXT-n-back exchange
3]  Stock exchange.  If I got it correctly this is going to be a simplified (for non-pro traders) version of a stock exchange, can be used for crowdfunding
4]  Virtual goods store.  The goods will be provided by ordinary users (books, links, game codes, anything represented as plain text)

I know that XCR team tries to make Virtual Apps store, and before this happen, before the killer app for end-user is out, we can't talk seriously about 1 USD per 1 XCR.

First of, we need DPoS to even work properly. Imagine a NXT POS algorithm which occasionally delivers a 30min blocktime. Good luck waiting for your confirmation for your coffee or the 10 confirmations to the exchange if you are in a hurry.

Only this is a huge PLUS for Crypti, we will offer constant 10sec blocks. You will never have to wait anymore for a block, you know for sure, that there will be one in 10sec. (If a delegate is bad, it will not forge and thus the next one will forge, making the blocktime 20sec.)


Regarding the other things you mentioned, just wait a month and you will be astonished.

Btw, NXT has a standard template for its client (http://cdn3.freshdesignweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Free-AdminLTE-Dashboard-and-Control-Panel.jpg) and NEM client is NOT beautiful IMHO. But they will probably enhance it in the future.

[Passion_ltc]

The Bter hot wallet is down to only 37K.  Have you got a contact at Bter that you can ask for a reload to keep the withdrawal of Crypti going? 

Yes, Max is on it... The lag is because Lin is the only one trusted with the passwords to the cold wallet.

He could use the web wallet for a secure transaction, but I bet Lin "Trusts no one"

He refilled it a few hours ago.

[Passion_ltc]

Let's talk about DPoS Forging.  What has been the observed monthly upload / download transfer of data in MB required to run a DPoS node on your testnet?  What's the average number of bytes being added to a DPoS blockchain every ten seconds?  What's the minimum number of bytes added for a zero block in 0.2.0?

No guarantee on this, but I think it's about 5MB every day. Remember, we have delegates, that means they will take care of the hosting. The normal user won't. So the few GB the blockchain will take, will mean NOTHING. Soon TB space is the standard.

[Passion_ltc]

As a cryptocoin user, keyloggers are your mortal enemy.  Isolate your cryptocoin activity to a zone where you have taken active measures to prevent keyloggers from ever being installed. 

And this is the main issue with crypto. If your credit cards get stolen you can blame the banks and they'll refund you.
If your crypto keys get stolen... Well you are responsible and have to take the loss.

As long as there is no good solution for this tedious safety work, crypto will not be adopted by the masses.
If you want to make crypto be adopted, solve this part of the puzzle.

Yes. You are right. This is very hard through and will possibly be taken care of a 3rd party, not the core developers. But who knows, maybe we find a solution for that problem in the future.

[Passion_ltc]

Here is the first NXT thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.0 BCNext wrote:

<BCNext promises>

...before the killer app for end-user is out, we (Crypti) can't talk seriously about 1 USD per 1 XCR.

NXT had a lot of promises in the early days they retracted, mostly associated with "transparent forging" which was going to enable "1000 transactions per second".  NXT abandoned TPS as a significant goal and never pushed their coin as an alternative currency for widespread public use.  Instead, all the emphasis went to "Asset Exchange" so everybody could push get-rich-quick schemes in an unregulated sandbox "stock market".

Handling 1000 or even 100 transactions per second (TPS) would be a "killer app" nobody else has that would be totally in line with the Crypti  emphasis on commerce.  I think the DPos circle of 101 and only 101 forgers is a GREAT approach in this direction that should be leveraged for max TPS as the Crypti killer app.

It's just a collective of quick money makers now, thanks to the asset exchange and the open forum rules, with dozens of scams. Something need to change in that direction, or it will be a "tour-de-force" for NXT in the future.

[MalReynolds]

Here is the first NXT thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.0 BCNext wrote:

<BCNext promises>

...before the killer app for end-user is out, we (Crypti) can't talk seriously about 1 USD per 1 XCR.

NXT had a lot of promises in the early days they retracted, mostly associated with "transparent forging" which was going to enable "1000 transactions per second".  NXT abandoned TPS as a significant goal and never pushed their coin as an alternative currency for widespread public use.  Instead, all the emphasis went to "Asset Exchange" so everybody could push get-rich-quick schemes in an unregulated sandbox "stock market".

Handling 1000 or even 100 transactions per second (TPS) would be a "killer app" nobody else has that would be totally in line with the Crypti  emphasis on commerce.  I think the DPos circle of 101 and only 101 forgers is a GREAT approach in this direction that should be leveraged for max TPS as the Crypti killer app.

It's just a collective of quick money makers now, thanks to the asset exchange and the open forum rules, with dozens of scams. Something need to change in that direction, or it will be a "tour-de-force" for NXT in the future.

That's why NXT has dropped from #3 to #8-#10 in market cap and why I am here instead of there.  I am interested in being involved with a coin on the way up, not down.

[Passion_ltc]

Here is the first NXT thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.0 BCNext wrote:

<BCNext promises>

...before the killer app for end-user is out, we (Crypti) can't talk seriously about 1 USD per 1 XCR.

NXT had a lot of promises in the early days they retracted, mostly associated with "transparent forging" which was going to enable "1000 transactions per second".  NXT abandoned TPS as a significant goal and never pushed their coin as an alternative currency for widespread public use.  Instead, all the emphasis went to "Asset Exchange" so everybody could push get-rich-quick schemes in an unregulated sandbox "stock market".

Handling 1000 or even 100 transactions per second (TPS) would be a "killer app" nobody else has that would be totally in line with the Crypti  emphasis on commerce.  I think the DPos circle of 101 and only 101 forgers is a GREAT approach in this direction that should be leveraged for max TPS as the Crypti killer app.

It's just a collective of quick money makers now, thanks to the asset exchange and the open forum rules, with dozens of scams. Something need to change in that direction, or it will be a "tour-de-force" for NXT in the future.

That's why NXT has dropped from #3 to #8-#10 in market cap and why I am here instead of there.  I am interested in being involved with a coin on the way up, not down.

They are still one of the most innovative coins out there. Others are standing still, while they are developing (even through in the wrong direction). But this thread is about Crypti.

[Litoshi]

Mal,

Insightfu posts as always, but I think you missed a detail on the DPOS posting a few days ago.

The fee for transactions are going to be 0.1% during DPOS.  This was changed due to input from the community.  

The 10,000 XCR cost of registering a Delegate can be recouped with the delegate sharing the fees of the delegates that register subsequently.  Every new delegate will generate 90 XCR for the 101 forging delegates.

We will also be running the Node Reward Program, Renamed the Delegate Reward Program, where we send XCR from one wallet to another to generate fees for the delegates, and to ensure the system is running correctly.

That will cut enable delegates to earn much if not all of their server fees.  Frankly, I am going to run a Delegate on my GPU miner, since it is up and running all the time anyway, and the CPU is at 8% usage.  Delegate hosting that was is free.

With XCR, unlike NODE and NXT, you can forge without owning a single XCR.  There is no minimum balance needed to forge, only enough votes from the nodes to be in the top 101.

 

[jari76]

Would you consider shutting down your 0.1.9 for a few days, resetting your bandwidth and memory meters to zero, and running 0.2.0 for exactly 48 hours to get some statistics?  That would be very interesting...

a clean ubuntu, with crypti 0.2.0 client running, uses about 177MB of ram on my node.
blockchain size is about 50mb, and the first block is recorded at 2015/03/18 , making it about 20 days old. that roughly corresponds to 2.5mb per day, but this doet not take inital setup size or anything in consideration.

[Wulfcastle]

I was thinking yesterday about Crypti and it's low marketcap. And I found that it just has not enough "selling points" for end-user. Yes, it has some "selling points" for investors, for example:
- wonderful team
- funding
- fair long-term plans and attitude

But it hasen't to much selling points/features for XCR regular user.
NEM has:
  1) beautiful wallet design. Crypti hasn't.
NXT has:
  1) beautiful wallet design
  2) in wallet asset exchange (so regular user can speculate there)
Bitshares has:
  1) DPOS
  2) Derivatives to make and play
Qora has
  1) Voting system

Today (in 2015) the ability to send and recieve virtual tokens in 1 minute is not enough.

The first selling point for XCR is DPOS, before that XCR is just bored  

Here is the first NXT thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.0 BCNext wrote:

I got some offers, on the launch or shortly after it we will have the following services:

1]  Faucet.  It will be funded by our donations
2]  Currency exchange.  Classical BTC-to-NXT-n-back exchange
3]  Stock exchange.  If I got it correctly this is going to be a simplified (for non-pro traders) version of a stock exchange, can be used for crowdfunding
4]  Virtual goods store.  The goods will be provided by ordinary users (books, links, game codes, anything represented as plain text)

I know that XCR team tries to make Virtual Apps store, and before this happen, before the killer app for end-user is out, we can't talk seriously about 1 USD per 1 XCR.

First of, we need DPoS to even work properly. Imagine a NXT POS algorithm which occasionally delivers a 30min blocktime. Good luck waiting for your confirmation for your coffee or the 10 confirmations to the exchange if you are in a hurry.

Only this is a huge PLUS for Crypti, we will offer constant 10sec blocks. You will never have to wait anymore for a block, you know for sure, that there will be one in 10sec. (If a delegate is bad, it will not forge and thus the next one will forge, making the blocktime 20sec.)


Regarding the other things you mentioned, just wait a month and you will be astonished.

Btw, NXT has a standard template for its client (http://cdn3.freshdesignweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Free-AdminLTE-Dashboard-and-Control-Panel.jpg) and NEM client is NOT beautiful IMHO. But they will probably enhance it in the future.

Any news on 0.2.0 launch? I spoke to Boris yesterday and he said he was testing it yesterday with the new fee structure. Any solid deadline on when we can expect 0.2.0 to release?

[MalReynolds]

Mal,

Insightfu posts as always, but I think you missed a detail on the DPOS posting a few days ago....The fee for transactions are going to be 0.1% during DPOS.  This was changed due to input from the community....  

D'oh, I missed that change, thanks for enlighening me.  I have modded my post / calculations above to reflect this 0.1% fee instead of 0.5% fee.  The new "bottom lines" repeated here are:  

For a Delegate to make "just" $10 in a month, the Crypti price has got to be 2.5X higher than it is now coupled with more than the entire total supply of Crypti changing hands every month.    

Another scenario is, if the monthly transaction traffic target is dropped to "only" 10M Crypti per month (a tenth of the total Crypti supply), then compensating a Delegate $10 per month requires a Crypti value of $0.112 each, or over X25 the current value.

As noted above, a delegate had better be prepared to fund a node out of his own pocket for probably many months until either Crypti prices and/or transaction volumes ramp up VERY significantly.

<Insert typical MalReynolds rant blah blah blah>

[Passion_ltc]

I was thinking yesterday about Crypti and it's low marketcap. And I found that it just has not enough "selling points" for end-user. Yes, it has some "selling points" for investors, for example:
- wonderful team
- funding
- fair long-term plans and attitude

But it hasen't to much selling points/features for XCR regular user.
NEM has:
  1) beautiful wallet design. Crypti hasn't.
NXT has:
  1) beautiful wallet design
  2) in wallet asset exchange (so regular user can speculate there)
Bitshares has:
  1) DPOS
  2) Derivatives to make and play
Qora has
  1) Voting system

Today (in 2015) the ability to send and recieve virtual tokens in 1 minute is not enough.

The first selling point for XCR is DPOS, before that XCR is just bored  

Here is the first NXT thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.0 BCNext wrote:

I got some offers, on the launch or shortly after it we will have the following services:

1]  Faucet.  It will be funded by our donations
2]  Currency exchange.  Classical BTC-to-NXT-n-back exchange
3]  Stock exchange.  If I got it correctly this is going to be a simplified (for non-pro traders) version of a stock exchange, can be used for crowdfunding
4]  Virtual goods store.  The goods will be provided by ordinary users (books, links, game codes, anything represented as plain text)

I know that XCR team tries to make Virtual Apps store, and before this happen, before the killer app for end-user is out, we can't talk seriously about 1 USD per 1 XCR.

First of, we need DPoS to even work properly. Imagine a NXT POS algorithm which occasionally delivers a 30min blocktime. Good luck waiting for your confirmation for your coffee or the 10 confirmations to the exchange if you are in a hurry.

Only this is a huge PLUS for Crypti, we will offer constant 10sec blocks. You will never have to wait anymore for a block, you know for sure, that there will be one in 10sec. (If a delegate is bad, it will not forge and thus the next one will forge, making the blocktime 20sec.)


Regarding the other things you mentioned, just wait a month and you will be astonished.

Btw, NXT has a standard template for its client (http://cdn3.freshdesignweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Free-AdminLTE-Dashboard-and-Control-Panel.jpg) and NEM client is NOT beautiful IMHO. But they will probably enhance it in the future.

Any news on 0.2.0 launch? I spoke to Boris yesterday and he said he was testing it yesterday with the new fee structure. Any solid deadline on when we can expect 0.2.0 to release?

This week. We can't give a specific time right now because we still test a few parameters specifically for the release. (like main net snapshots or genesis delegates)

[Litoshi]

Mal,

Insightfu posts as always, but I think you missed a detail on the DPOS posting a few days ago....The fee for transactions are going to be 0.1% during DPOS.  This was changed due to input from the community....  

D'oh, I missed that change, thanks for enlighening me.  I have modded my post / calculations above to reflect this 0.1% fee instead of 0.5% fee.  The new "bottom lines" repeated here are:  

For a Delegate to make "just" $10 in a month, the Crypti price has got to be 2.5X higher than it is now coupled with more than the entire total supply of Crypti changing hands every month.    

Another scenario is, if the monthly transaction traffic target is dropped to "only" 10M Crypti per month (a tenth of the total Crypti supply), then compensating a Delegate $10 per month requires a Crypti value of $0.112 each, or over X25 the current value.

As noted above, a delegate had better be prepared to fund a node out of his own pocket for probably many months until either Crypti prices and/or transaction volumes ramp up VERY significantly.

<Insert typical MalReynolds rant blah blah blah>

Mal, you did not consider the Delegate Reward Program in your calculations.  We cannot promise $10 a month in earnings, but the DRP will mitigate the expense of paying to have a running delegate on a cloud server.  I will be running mine on a miner that is on all the time anyway.
You might do the same.

There is no limit to the number of delegates a person can run on the same IP.  The electrical cost of an "always on" laptop with 1 delegate is the same as the same laptop with 5 or more delegates.  

[MalReynolds]

Mal, you did not consider the Delegate Reward Program in your calculations.  We cannot promise $10 a month in earnings, but the DRP will mitigate the expense of paying to have a running delegate ...

The DRP sounds like it will just "artificially inflate" the baseline transaction traffic with "test transfers", and so "just" be a (perhaps significant) component of 10M or 100M or whatever Crypti per month changing hands during the live 0.2.0 test phase.  Not insignificant, potentially, and definitely worthwhile from a test standpoint, but you can't keep that up forever.

There is no limit to the number of delegates a person can run on the same IP.  The electrical cost of an "always on" laptop with 1 delegate is the same as the same laptop with 5 or more delegates.  

So you are running multiple instantiations of the 0.2.0 software on one machine?   Are they each running their own individual copies of the blockchain or all accessing a single common one?

I have some concerns because I don't understand how blockchain memory management is implemented and it scares me when you say terabyte blockchains are coming, presumably with Custom Chains.  I want to turn a node on and have it run a year or more as my goal.  At 2.5MB a day I get a 75MB main blockchain in a month and a gigabyte main chain in a year.  Is this all in RAM?  Getting read on and off the hard drive?  Per instantiation?

I just don't want things to go great and hit a memory limit and crash at some unknown time in the future.

Also - no limit to the number of delegates a person can run on at one IP?  THAT doesn't sound very fault tolerant.  I would have thought you would be more likely to specify 101 Delegates on 101 IPs and no more than 40 per North America / Europe / Asia or something like that.  Isn't dispersion of nodes better than concentration of nodes?  

[Passion_ltc]

Mal, you did not consider the Delegate Reward Program in your calculations.  We cannot promise $10 a month in earnings, but the DRP will mitigate the expense of paying to have a running delegate ...

The DRP sounds like it will just "artificially inflate" the baseline transaction traffic with "test transfers", and so "just" be a (perhaps significant) component of 10M or 100M or whatever Crypti per month changing hands during the live 0.2.0 test phase.  Not insignificant, potentially, and definitely worthwhile from a test standpoint, but you can't keep that up forever.

There is no limit to the number of delegates a person can run on the same IP.  The electrical cost of an "always on" laptop with 1 delegate is the same as the same laptop with 5 or more delegates. 

So you are running multiple instantiations of the 0.2.0 software on one machine?   Are they each running their own individual copies of the blockchain or all accessing a single common one?

I have some concerns because I don't understand how blockchain memory management is implemented and it scares me when you say terabyte blockchains are coming, presumably with Custom Chains.  I want to turn a node on and have it run a year or more as my goal.  At 2.5MB a day I get a 75MB main blockchain in a month and a gigabyte main chain in a year.  Is this all in RAM?  Getting read on and off the hard drive?  Per instantiation?

I just don't want things to go great and hit a memory limit and crash at some unknown time in the future.

Also - no limit to the number of delegates a person can run on at one IP?  THAT doesn't sound very fault tolerant.  I would have thought you would be more likely to specify 101 Delegates on 101 IPs and no more than 40 per North America / Europe / Asia or something like that.  Isn't dispersion of nodes better than concentration of nodes? 

It's on your hard drive or SSD of course. It's theoretically possible, but why should the community vote for two delegates on one node? They will probably vote for another one.

[Litoshi]

So you are running multiple instantiations of the 0.2.0 software on one machine?   Are they each running their own individual copies of the blockchain or all accessing a single common one?

Mal,

I am only running one delegate, because I feel that I should leave room for the community to run delegates, and not hog all the fun.

When the new DPOS system is launched, there will be already 101 delegates.  This is necessary to have a functioning system.  They will have few or no votes, and thus are designed to be voted out of the top 101 as other delegates come online from the community.  They will also serve as backup delegates for when there are less than 101 online delegates.  A delegate, once created, cannot be deleted, and will show forever in the delegate list.  

It is my understanding that each delegate from the same node would share the same blockchain.db.  You must have a node to make a delegate.  A delegate, or two, or three, is just a forging account for a node.

We think that you will find running a delegate will prove profitable as we grow.

[samsmith16]

As a cryptocoin user, keyloggers are your mortal enemy.  Isolate your cryptocoin activity to a zone where you have taken active measures to prevent keyloggers from ever being installed.  

And this is the main issue with crypto. If your credit cards get stolen you can blame the banks and they'll refund you.
If your crypto keys get stolen... Well you are responsible and have to take the loss.

As long as there is no good solution for this tedious safety work, crypto will not be adopted by the masses.
If you want to make crypto be adopted, solve this part of the puzzle.

And one could also say this is whats wrong with the current system. People don't want to be held responsible for careless actions. Your right a credit card company refunds you, but if you think thats where it ends your mistaken. We all pay for this with High fees, and Higher prices at the stores. The think that Crypto solves it taking out singel points of failure. Meaning you hold your own Key to your funds, and if some one breaches this only your account is affected, However if Target is hacked then 100k accounts are affected. Do we have every detail ironed out in Crypto yet? No but we are getting better and better every day.

[Vagnavs]

I'm a relatively new comer to the new system and its rewards..
Say I have 500K coins, does that mean I will get more rewards? Or does it depend on the number of nodes?
Is there a wiki somewhere on this..
Regards,
Brian

[Litoshi]

I'm a relatively new comer to the new system and its rewards..
Say I have 500K coins, does that mean I will get more rewards? Or does it depend on the number of nodes?
Is there a wiki somewhere on this..
Regards,
Brian

There is a link to the WIki on the OP.  Please go there for all links for Crypti.  We have been keeping it updated.

There is a full explanation by GreXX a few pages back.  But to summarize........... THIS IS NOT NXT OR NODE !!!!

WIth XCR, Crypti, you can forge with 0 XCR in your node, as long as your delegate has enough votes to be in the top 101 delegates.

To forge XCR, you make a node/wallet and have 10,000 XCR in it.  You pay the 10K XCR for forming a delegate, which is just the forging part of your node.  After that, you do not need to have any other XCR, unless you want to vote.  The 10K XCR delegate fee is paid 90% to the other delegates that are forging, and 10% goes to the Foundation for the Node Reward Program and the Faucet.  

You can vote for your own delegate, and other delegates, or just convince other nodes to vote for you.

Votes are cast by the nodes (wallets), and count 1 per XCR in that wallet. A node with 500,000 XCR has 500,000 votes per delegate.

To vote,  that node needs to pay 1 XCR, and then can cast its 500,000 votes for 33 delegates. Thats 500,000 each, not 500,000/33.

The node may vote again by paying another 1 XCR, during which vote process, the node may remove votes from nodes it voted for previously, and add votes to other nodes.  Total votes, up or down, cannot total more than 33.  

The node can vote for max 101 delegates, which will take 4 vote cycles.

The delegates are ranked by total votes... #1 to #101 and then all other delegates are listed as reserve delegates, and advance to active forging only if there is a vacancy in the top 101.  

A cycle of forging is 101 blocks forged.  This starts off with the delegates being chosen in random order to forge a block, one every 10 seconds.  When all 101 blocks have been forged, the cycle ends.  The fees are totaled and paid EQUALLY to all forging nodes.  Delegate #1 earns the same fee as Delegate #101.  

There is no advantage to having massive amounts of XCR, other than the money you will make as the price of XCR climbs.

Then a new cycle of 101 blocks to be forged is begun, and the delegates are chosen in random order to forge.  If a delegate s unable to forge a block, the block is sent to the next delegate for forging.  Every cycle will have 101 blocks forged, even if several delegates drop out before forging that cycle.  Only delegates that actually forged a block will share the fees at the end of the cycle.