bustabit.com -- The Social Gambling Game

[kolloh]

Yeah, there's an extensive amount of work that has gone into it to make it reasonably safe. It looks at things like the transactions, their parents, if they've had time to propagate, etc any conflicts etc.  If there's not enough reason for me to be confident the transaction will confirm, or is safe from double-spending it won't be eligible for precrediting.

It also has max-risk thresholds, (e.g. only X bitcoin is eligible for precrediting at once, so the max loss for the site could only be X) along with a kill switch when ever it detects a successful defraud (for me to investigate, and further tune).

Yeah, with these steps it should be a lot less risky and will be a great feature to have for gamblers. No one likes waiting on a confirm and this allows you to jump into the action a lot quicker. I'm sure I'd use it if I wasn't in the mood to wait on a confirm.

[J Gambler]

This is the only gambling website that don't needs to be advertise nor don't had signature campaign bustabit nowadays is everywhere in country lo'ts of player and still growing hoping for the best on v2 of bustabit i always wanted to play here once i have bitcoins less risk.

[BTCevo]

Thanks to @cowbay for the idea. The ability to "precredit" deposits for a small fee so you don't need to wait on confirmations. And I'll probably extend free-precredits as a VIP feature for established players

Interesting feature. Seems like it would be open to abuse though. User pays a 3,200 bit fee to have 320,000 bits precredited, withdrawals/tips them and doublespends the transaction. I don't think charging a fee makes it any safer to accept unconfirmed funds unless you have some other mechanism in place to prevent abuse ( such as limiting tipping / withdrawls until confirmation )

3200 bit as fee? Is this for real? That is 0.032 btc just to get 0.32 confirmation of this? This fee is really huge. Changing the fee higher will just make people complain more and more. And this thing will sure affect many players.

Did I miss this "pre creditted" things? May be I little bit confuse here

[devans]

3200 bit as fee? Is this for real? That is 0.032 btc just to get 0.32 confirmation of this? This fee is really huge. Changing the fee higher will just make people complain more and more. And this thing will sure affect many players.

Did I miss this "pre creditted" things? May be I little bit confuse here

It's an optional feature that allows you to play immediately rather than waiting for a confirmation. You don't have to make use of the service if you don't want to.

Also, 3,200 bits is 0.0032 BTC, not 0.032 BTC, so the proposed fee isn't as high as you may have thought.

[fiscorcle]

3200 bit as fee? Is this for real? That is 0.032 btc just to get 0.32 confirmation of this? This fee is really huge. Changing the fee higher will just make people complain more and more. And this thing will sure affect many players.

Did I miss this "pre creditted" things? May be I little bit confuse here

It's strictly an opt-in feature on a deposit-to-deposit basis and very explicit about the fees. If you don't want to use it (as we expect most users won't) then absolutely nothing will change. 

Basically the idea is if you're impatient and want your money before it confirms, you'll be able to pay to get it instantly. Over time (assuming miners don't switch to full-RBF) I'll like to extend the feature to most gamblers completely for free. But if you don't use it, it'll be like it is now (no fee, but you need to wait till your money confirms before you get it)

How big of a whale would someone have to be to get their fees waived?

[hopenotlate]

3200 bit as fee? Is this for real? That is 0.032 btc just to get 0.32 confirmation of this? This fee is really huge. Changing the fee higher will just make people complain more and more. And this thing will sure affect many players.

Did I miss this "pre creditted" things? May be I little bit confuse here

It's strictly an opt-in feature on a deposit-to-deposit basis and very explicit about the fees. If you don't want to use it (as we expect most users won't) then absolutely nothing will change. 

Basically the idea is if you're impatient and want your money before it confirms, you'll be able to pay to get it instantly. Over time (assuming miners don't switch to full-RBF) I'll like to extend the feature to most gamblers completely for free. But if you don't use it, it'll be like it is now (no fee, but you need to wait till your money confirms before you get it)

How big of a whale would someone have to be to get their fees waived?

By the way 3200 bits are 0.0032 BTC ( not 0.032 as you wrote) but agree it's a hell of a fee.

But, being optional, maybe there are so impatient players willing to pay those fees to avoid the delay.

[RGR991]

I'm coming for you Ryan, I've created the ultimate bot 

[fiscorcle]

HOw is this different from theo other one? (Unless you've figured out how to account for bonuses)?

[dooglus]

Basically the idea is if you're impatient and want your money before it confirms, you'll be able to pay to get it instantly.

What if I deposit without opting in, wait 20 minutes without getting a confirmation and change my mind about opting in. Can I at that point opt in and instantly get 99% of the deposited amount in my balance? Or do I have to decide before I make the transaction whether I want to pay the 1% fee or not?

[jaysabi]

On a related note, I've also been working on a cool "deposit booster" for everyone who has bitcoin deposits stuck. I typically get like ~10+ support requests a day about people who are in that situation (please folks: stop using blockchain.info's wallet).

I haven't hooked it up yet, but I have a rough proof of concept working. For the technical it simply creates a transaction that spends from your (unconfirmed) deposit to a new bitcoin address (i.e. 1 input and 1 output) and because it pays transaction fees, it'll boost the priority for deposit itself. There will be no (extra) fee for such service, you just pay for the bitcoin mining fee of the deposit boost. Based on my testing it seems like ~30% of bitcoin hash power supports this (CPFP) so it's not amazingly good, but it'll be useful in the stuck case.

The really cool thing about it, is there's no risk for me (since i'm spending from that specific deposit).


Now I also need to figure out how to explain this to users, as there will be "boost deposit" and "precredit deposit" lol ><

What is it about blockchain.info's wallet? As a non-super serious Bitcoin user, I've relied on them as a wallet (for admittedly low volume, non-demanding transactions), and haven't noticed any issues on my end. Are they known to cause problems for users or the eco-system?

[DarkStar_]

-snip-

What is it about blockchain.info's wallet? As a non-super serious Bitcoin user, I've relied on them as a wallet (for admittedly low volume, non-demanding transactions), and haven't noticed any issues on my end. Are they known to cause problems for users or the eco-system?

Not really. Their fee estimator is very bad, and doesn't accurately reflect how busy the network is. I think they pay a fixed 50 satoshis/byte by default, which is great if the network isn't very busy, but when bitcoinfees.21.co suggests 100 satoshis/byte (ie 30kb in the mempool) for a quick confirmation, they still pay the 50, which can take hours or even longer to confirm. If you pick your own fee, and use an good fee for a fast confirmation, it shouldn't affect you.

[jaysabi]

That's interesting. I would have figured the calculation for transaction fees would be pretty standard at this point, and since I've never noticed any real lag when making transactions (outside of last summer when it seemed like the whole damn network was slogged down with congestion), it furthered that notion that something as basic as calculating an appropriate transaction fee was not an issue for any of these services. What online wallets would you recommend in lieu of blockchain.info's wallets?

[BTCevo]

3200 bit as fee? Is this for real? That is 0.032 btc just to get 0.32 confirmation of this? This fee is really huge. Changing the fee higher will just make people complain more and more. And this thing will sure affect many players.

Did I miss this "pre creditted" things? May be I little bit confuse here

It's an optional feature that allows you to play immediately rather than waiting for a confirmation. You don't have to make use of the service if you don't want to.

Also, 3,200 bits is 0.0032 BTC, not 0.032 BTC, so the proposed fee isn't as high as you may have thought.

But is it not high?just to get 1 withdrawal you already spend that much. If there is a big money to be withdrawn may be it is worth but low amount will never be worth. And I ever saw other site that offer around 0.001 btc for their instant withdrawal fee and we can directly get our withdrawal. Compare to 0.003 is really a little bit high too

Btw sorry for my mis calculated bits to btc

[Dabs]

For instance, on my (non-rooted) mobile I regularly have 50+ bitcoin and have installed a huge amount of random apps. That's something I'd never even dream of doing on a desktop for instance.

Your phone is worth 50 BTC? Is that a Samsung S8 Super Edge Plus Plus?

[RHavar]

For instance, on my (non-rooted) mobile I regularly have 50+ bitcoin and have installed a huge amount of random apps. That's something I'd never even dream of doing on a desktop for instance.

Your phone is worth 50 BTC? Is that a Samsung S8 Super Edge Plus Plus?

I mean, I have a wallet on my phone with 50 BTC in it, not the phone itself is worth 50 BTC.

[gammons]

But is it not high?just to get 1 withdrawal you already spend that much. If there is a big money to be withdrawn may be it is worth but low amount will never be worth. And I ever saw other site that offer around 0.001 btc for their instant withdrawal fee and we can directly get our withdrawal. Compare to 0.003 is really a little bit high too

Btw sorry for my mis calculated bits to btc

Bustabit currently has instant withdrawals for 0.0003 BTC (300 bits) and we use quite generous fees to make sure your withdrawals don't get stuck, like is happening at a lot of other sites.

This is already pretty reasonable (it's actually a money loss for us), but in the next update: it's going to be even cheaper! Well, there will be the option to have your withdrawal cheaper if you don't need the money right away. The way we can offer that is by putting your withdrawal into a queue, and tack it onto the next (instant) withdrawal.


Both "pre-credited deposits", and "queued withdrawals" are just going to optional enhancements. For people who want to wait for 1 confirmation, or people who want instant withdrawals -- they won't be disadvantaged at all.

how about on withdrawal there is an option for mixing coins or automated mixing when withdrew
maybe can be small fee for service too.

[jaysabi]

That's interesting. I would have figured the calculation for transaction fees would be pretty standard at this point, and since I've never noticed any real lag when making transactions (outside of last summer when it seemed like the whole damn network was slogged down with congestion), it furthered that notion that something as basic as calculating an appropriate transaction fee was not an issue for any of these services. What online wallets would you recommend in lieu of blockchain.info's wallets?

I strongly think the best wallets for normal users are mobile wallets, I've had good experience with mycelium (android) and breadwallet (ios) and can recommend both. Most people seem to not like the idea of mobile wallets as they're worried about losing their phone, but making a recovery key that's not an issue.

For instance, on my (non-rooted) mobile I regularly have 50+ bitcoin and have installed a huge amount of random apps. That's something I'd never even dream of doing on a desktop for instance.

For sums larger than that, it's probably worth investing ($100) in a hardware wallet (I use a trezor, and am quite happy with it).

Haha, if I ever get to 50 bitcoins, I'll give that some serious consideration. I'm small time though, and that amount seems utterly ridiculous compared to my wallet balance currently. Good to know that the iOS wallet is recommended though. I've just been relying on using blockchain.info's wallet via the mobile web browser. I'm not a heavy user, so I've not noticed problems. Good to be aware of alternatives though.

[jaysabi]

But is it not high?just to get 1 withdrawal you already spend that much. If there is a big money to be withdrawn may be it is worth but low amount will never be worth. And I ever saw other site that offer around 0.001 btc for their instant withdrawal fee and we can directly get our withdrawal. Compare to 0.003 is really a little bit high too

Btw sorry for my mis calculated bits to btc

Bustabit currently has instant withdrawals for 0.0003 BTC (300 bits) and we use quite generous fees to make sure your withdrawals don't get stuck, like is happening at a lot of other sites.

This is already pretty reasonable (it's actually a money loss for us), but in the next update: it's going to be even cheaper! Well, there will be the option to have your withdrawal cheaper if you don't need the money right away. The way we can offer that is by putting your withdrawal into a queue, and tack it onto the next (instant) withdrawal.


Both "pre-credited deposits", and "queued withdrawals" are just going to optional enhancements. For people who want to wait for 1 confirmation, or people who want instant withdrawals -- they won't be disadvantaged at all.

Just out of curiosity, when you pay mining fees for a withdrawal, is that amount reflected in the website's stats page? I'm assuming it would be added to the withdrawal number and also decrease profit, however the only inputs there are "total wagered" and "total won" which gives you the net profit. Doesn't seem like your withdrawals fees paid are reflected in the site's profit, but should be since it's a cost of business.

[RHavar]

how about on withdrawal there is an option for mixing coins or automated mixing when withdrew
maybe can be small fee for service too.

All queued withdrawals will be mixed with other withdrawals, so it might help a little. But in v2 there's going to be a *lot* of additional hot wallet privacy, mainly due to pushing users into using new deposit addresses each deposit (but allowing use of old ones) and making it very difficult/impossible to cluster our hot wallet by following change outputs.

And there's a few other tricks I'm doing for user privacy, but I'll avoid revealing them here

Just out of curiosity, when you pay mining fees for a withdrawal, is that amount reflected in the website's stats page? I'm assuming it would be added to the withdrawal number and also decrease profit, however the only inputs there are "total wagered" and "total won" which gives you the net profit. Doesn't seem like your withdrawals fees paid are reflected in the site's profit, but should be since it's a cost of business.

In the stats are included the amount users pay, but it doesn't take into consideration what the actual mining fee was. So in reality the site has made a bit less money than the profit would otherwise suggest

[kolloh]

All queued withdrawals will be mixed with other withdrawals, so it might help a little. But in v2 there's going to be a *lot* of additional hot wallet privacy, mainly due to pushing users into using new deposit addresses each deposit (but allowing use of old ones) and making it very difficult/impossible to cluster our hot wallet by following change outputs.

And there's a few other tricks I'm doing for user privacy, but I'll avoid revealing them here

I definitely like the addition of privacy features for deposits like this. I've always been annoyed at having to reuse the same deposit address over and over again because it can become obvious what such an address is after a few deposits.