GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)

[suchmoon]

Let me try to do a quick tl;dr about this hashlet "exploit" that has been going on for a few pages now.

Here is what APPEARS to have happened:

• GAW reopened Prime hashlet sales briefly Tuesday (October 14, 2014) evening EST. Not directly from GAW/Zen sites but through retailers and at $70 (regular price $50). GAW also opened private Prime hashlet sales through ZenCloud marketplace around the same time.
• Some buyers received activation codes for 25 MH/s hashlets even though they purchased only 1 or 5 MH/s. It is not currently known if this issue was caused by GAW, or by reseller(s), or how many resellers or buyers were involved, or if there was any collusion between reseller(s) and buyers.
• Some buyers decided to cash out their 25 MH/s hashlets by selling them on the newly opened marketplace. Rumor has it that some were able to do this multiple times by selling and then buying more of the "upsized" hashlets and selling again. This pushed Prime marketplace prices down to ~$30 per MH/s.
• Upon discovering the issue a few hours after marketplace opened GAW disabled BTC withdrawals from ZenCloud, removed all Primes from the marketplace, and eventually put ZenCloud into maintenance mode for about 12 hours, until early afternoon Wednesday EST. Withdrawals remained disabled for all users for a few hours longer, and some users are experiencing withdrawal errors nearly 2 days after the issue. Hashtalk forum was taken down for a few hours on Wednesday presumably to collect information on individuals involved in the issue.
• Official GAW statements from Tuesday and Wednesday refer to the issue as an "exploit" committed by some users.
• It is not quite clear what exact steps GAW took to resolve the issue. Hashlets not resold in the marketplace likely were or will be taken away from the original buyers. Hashlets resold in the marketplace are supposed to be refunded and taken away from the secondary buyers, but some marketplace buyers who purchased 25 MH/s hashlets are reporting their hashrate reduced to 1 MH/s without a refund while still being charged maintenance fees for 25 MH/s. It is likely that the resolution is still in progress.
• There are unconfirmed claims that GAW issued legal threats to users allegedly involved in the reselling of the "upsized" hashlets, and charged users' credit cards in an attempt to recover losses.

[suchmoon]

Seriously this things is getting worse and worse. GAWminers take bad decisions, lock threads when they can't control it, ban people for no acceptable reasons but still, still there are groupies to "thank" him. And seriously I really hope that the thread about donation to GAW was a joke...

Don't know really what to think. Should I run away from Zencloud ?

Do we have the confirmation that they are really mining ? I really wonder why they don't want to speak about how much GHs/Mhs they got. Any idea ?

Last declared hashrate nearly two months ago was between 250 and 300 GH/s (Scrypt). A few weeks later GAW CEO mentioned that the hashrate had doubled, probably to around 500 GH/s Scrypt. It's been another month since then, so likely it is more than that now. There is no indication of SHA256 hashrate.

As for confirmation, short answer is no, longer answer is in the OP.

Whether you run or not depends on how much you're invested and what's your risk tolerance. At the very least you should be withdrawing your earnings daily - not because of any conspiracies, but due to the recent withdrawal issues and questionable software quality.

[tins]

Are some people able to withdraw right now?

[eightcylinders]

Are some people able to withdraw right now?

Yes, but it will take multiple attemps... look up above about 5-10 posts in this thread you will see my advice re how to get money out.

[cma3]

Are some people able to withdraw right now?

Yes, but it will take multiple attemps... look up above about 5-10 posts in this thread you will see my advice re how to get money out.

The 'official" word is:

Withdraw Holds - We are verifying larger withdraws

this was just posted.

[corsaro]

Are some people able to withdraw right now?

Yes I was able...  try and try again...   a lot of times...  finally I was able after about 10 attempts today

[tins]

Are some people able to withdraw right now?

Yes I was able...  try and try again...   a lot of times...  finally I was able after about 10 attempts today

Alright, that's positive to hear...thank you. I'll keep at it.

[anderl]

A lot of governments, local, state federal, etc have laws against this kind of roll back.

Massachusetts Law ->> Section 43. Any person who receives unsolicited goods, wares or merchandise, offered for sale, but not actually ordered or requested by him orally or in writing, shall be entitled to consider such goods, wares or merchandise an unconditional gift, and he may use or dispose of the same as he sees fit without obligation on his part.

General Laws, PART I, TITLE XV, CHAPTER 93, Section 43

So if GAW rolled back a purchase you made regardless of what the amount was and what you paid for it was a gift and GAW was breaking the law in doing the rollback on you.  If they initiated charges on your card for these accidental purchases because you haven't contacted them on the few hours they gave you they are in break of US Consumer Protection Law.

[NuShrike]

I was able to pull a tiny .01 BTC out today, after payouts, without issue.

#payoutwatch

[anderl]

http://pastebin.com/4nxFdPg4

Dear Eric,
 
I'm responding here anonymously, because it seems you are giving nothing on privacy statements and privacy data protection.
 
In other countries then US, you would propably yourself made a lawsuit only for this.
 
I noticed that many people, who you call "hackers", are experiencing lot of illegal charges from various companys, all related to GAW Miners, and even from GAW Miners directly on their CreditCards. The charges sum is not at all plausible, so I don't know why you are trying to do this or what is going in your mind by doing so. In the EU, you are going to get a law suit only for trying to illegally charge creditcards without that the holder granted you this transaction. We will see if I get some of these people to start this law suit against you, remember, in EU on illegal charges, you get 5 years of prison and it seems you are doing it at a systematic manner, that would be worse. So instead of accusing us, stealing your bitcoins, what defenitly nobody did, you should check your own illegal activities.
 
Just to summarize whats going to happen: You are accusing a lot of people being hackers and exploiters and wanting the BTC back from them.
 
You did say, there will be no more primes to be sold. After Buyback-Buyback was closed, you gave all the resellers, additional codes to sell more primes for another time period. That again, is lying to your customers, creating another demand to invest more money (insider-trading). All people bought the codes from your resellers and redeemed them on your platform, they were paid legal and acquired legal. No exploit was used to get to this point.
 
The only thing was selling this bought primes on a user market for a user defined price. You did not even see how many MHs a prime has after redeeming, so how could anybody know that were 25 or 1 or 5.
 
So lets get this straight. You just created this whole thing. You failed with your announcement on no more primes being sold. You failed on delivering codes to your resellers. You failed on redeeming this codes. You failed on stopping your platform in an appropriate time frame, after realising it failed. You failed on how to handle this mess and now generated your own failure into a even bigger failure. And now you are going filing law suits against this users? Because you failed this whole shit and need somebody to blame of?
 
Think of this: You could have stopped the market. Stopped your resellers selling failed codes. Then bring back the market. What harm would have been done? Every user would have bought Primes and were given the primes they bought. You would have made cash from your resellers, you would have made cash on the market 10% for each sell. Your customers would have been happy. You would have had no problem.
 
Now you reverted it all, generated another whole big mess and a another PR desaster. You should really think of how you handle situations.
 
Could you too think of, what is going on if somebody sold their accounts on privat? They probably have nothing to do with it. And you are giving them legal actions warnings...
 
You really have done a big whole failure here and it will bounce back to you more than you will think of now.
 
And said all of this, nobody stole BTC from you. You stole them, by reverting your system.
 
You can answer this email. I will check it and answer you back what your decision is. If you are filing law suits against any of your customers, we are doing it straight way back to you and this will be worse for you then for us.
 
------ YOUR EMAIL ------
 
We have detected activity on your account which violates the terms of service as agreed to by you on our ZenCloud platform. We have retrieved audit logs of your activities directly through our ZenCloud Platform, GAW Miners Ecommerce Site, Value Added Re-sellers and our direct sales channels.
 
The information we have obtained has been forwarded to our attorneys and local law enforcement with jurisdiction over you. We are preparing to take legal and criminal action against you. You will be liable for the BTC your transferred out, as well as legal fees.
 
If you make contact with us and agree to work towards reconciling this within 8 hours from the date of this letter, and we can agree on a plan of restitution, legal action will not be taken.
 
If I do not hear from you, we will be forced to take legal action and to prosecute you to the fullest extend of the law including but not limited to civil and criminal proceedings.
 
Should you prefer to just return the funds in the exact amount that you withdrew, feel free to do so with the address below. I will monitor this address for a deposit that matches the exact amount pulled from our system.
 
38RAhW2kUYXXWvbccK98n1zGnkTw3sEJxP
 
Looking forward to hearing from you within 8 hours.
 
 
--
Eric Capuano
CISO, GAW
22 Millbranch Rd. Bldg 800
Hattiesburg, MS 39402
 
Office: (860) 237-3298 ext. 219
Anywhere: (860) 800-6123
PGP Public Key
 
 
“The information contained in this email message may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient any use, distribution, disclosure or copying of this information is prohibited. If you receive this email in error, please tell us by return email and destroy this communication and any attachments from your system.”

[alienesb]

So how many hashlets did you sell?

[suchmoon]

https://hashtalk.org/user/yak
https://hashtalk.org/user/deadace
https://hashtalk.org/user/acamp22

Ban hammer is working overtime today:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=825873
https://hashtalk.org/user/deeneendo

There is a bunch of others, some threads have a lot of red in them.

In other news, here is a bit of an insight into the scale of the "oversize" issue:

https://hashtalk.org/topic/12067/outstanding-zencloud-issues-updates

Hashlets were not the right size after purchased (larger than what was purchased) - Currently being reconciled only 231 left

Doesn't say how many were there to begin with though.

[Snipe85]

Some of these banned people are trolls, and looks like the mods overreacted and banned some decent users, who made a mistake of bumping posts made by those trolls.
Troll account: https://hashtalk.org/user/nupapa
Normal user, who supported troll's thread: https://hashtalk.org/user/deeneendo

Anyway, since it's not a typical public forum they can ban as much as they want. It's the same as being refused service in a restaurant. You don't go home and cry in a pillow.
They're not the only restaurant in town

[suchmoon]

Some of these banned people are trolls, and looks like the mods overreacted and banned some decent users, who made a mistake of bumping posts made by those trolls.
Troll account: https://hashtalk.org/user/nupapa
Normal user, who supported troll's thread: https://hashtalk.org/user/deeneendo

Anyway, since it's not a typical public forum they can ban as much as they want. It's the same as being refused service in a restaurant. You don't go home and cry in a pillow.
They're not the only restaurant in town

Are you suggesting that bumping posts is a bannable offense now? Come on... was there anybody banned for any of those inane "First" and "I love GAW" posts in every thread? Rules are fine, if they are reasonable, enforceable, and applied consistently, which doesn't appear to be the case on HT.

Trouble with this "ban as much as they want" attitude is that the forum is the only place where new features and other important business decisions are announced. There are no e-mails, nothing on the GAW site, occasionally you may get a popup on ZenCloud but I don't think there is a "News" page or something like that there. Ok, you can probably still read the announcements on HT even if you're banned. But you can't post in the support section if they neglect your ticket for 3 weeks. Kind of rude to cut customers off support for committing some made-up forum offense, wouldn't you agree?

[CoffeeCat]

Amber of GAW... tell me why I was banned. I'm really curious.

[Snipe85]

Some of these banned people are trolls, and looks like the mods overreacted and banned some decent users, who made a mistake of bumping posts made by those trolls.
Troll account: https://hashtalk.org/user/nupapa
Normal user, who supported troll's thread: https://hashtalk.org/user/deeneendo

Anyway, since it's not a typical public forum they can ban as much as they want. It's the same as being refused service in a restaurant. You don't go home and cry in a pillow.
They're not the only restaurant in town

Are you suggesting that bumping posts is a bannable offense now? Come on... was there anybody banned for any of those inane "First" and "I love GAW" posts in every thread? Rules are fine, if they are reasonable, enforceable, and applied consistently, which doesn't appear to be the case on HT.

Trouble with this "ban as much as they want" attitude is that the forum is the only place where new features and other important business decisions are announced. There are no e-mails, nothing on the GAW site, occasionally you may get a popup on ZenCloud but I don't think there is a "News" page or something like that there. Ok, you can probably still read the announcements on HT even if you're banned. But you can't post in the support section if they neglect your ticket for 3 weeks. Kind of rude to cut customers off support for committing some made-up forum offense, wouldn't you agree?

I can't say much about that first part, I've been following this whole thing since last week. To me this ban (deeneendo) looks like a misunderstanding, unless he posted something more ofensive that was later deleted.
Forum support section can't be the only means of contacting them besides the tickets, they have a phone and I saw them respond to bitcointalk posts.
This whole thing could be easily fixed if they wanted to. They could set up an online helpdesk in a form of a chatroom or a teamspeak channel, where people could get immediate attention and/or create a trollbox or a jail, a section of the forum without any rules, or maybe a two level ban. First offense would ban the user from posting in most sections of the forum, but still allow to post in the support.

What I meant by "not the only restaurant in town" was that hashtalk is a part of their company. If someone doesn't like how it's run and can't come to terms with its rules (or their lack) he shouldn't struggle and move on.
I've been banned from a number of forums in my life, KNC being one of them, and It never bothered me.

[ZiG]

Some of these banned people are trolls, and looks like the mods overreacted and banned some decent users, who made a mistake of bumping posts made by those trolls.
Troll account: https://hashtalk.org/user/nupapa
Normal user, who supported troll's thread: https://hashtalk.org/user/deeneendo

Anyway, since it's not a typical public forum they can ban as much as they want. It's the same as being refused service in a restaurant. You don't go home and cry in a pillow.
They're not the only restaurant in town

Are you suggesting that bumping posts is a bannable offense now? Come on... was there anybody banned for any of those inane "First" and "I love GAW" posts in every thread? Rules are fine, if they are reasonable, enforceable, and applied consistently, which doesn't appear to be the case on HT.

Trouble with this "ban as much as they want" attitude is that the forum is the only place where new features and other important business decisions are announced. There are no e-mails, nothing on the GAW site, occasionally you may get a popup on ZenCloud but I don't think there is a "News" page or something like that there. Ok, you can probably still read the announcements on HT even if you're banned. But you can't post in the support section if they neglect your ticket for 3 weeks. Kind of rude to cut customers off support for committing some made-up forum offense, wouldn't you agree?

I can't say much about that first part, I've been following this whole thing since last week. To me this ban (deeneendo) looks like a misunderstanding, unless he posted something more ofensive that was later deleted.
Forum support section can't be the only means of contacting them besides the tickets, they have a phone and I saw them respond to bitcointalk posts.
This whole thing could be easily fixed if they wanted to. They could set up an online helpdesk in a form of a chatroom or a teamspeak channel, where people could get immediate attention and/or create a trollbox or a jail, a section of the forum without any rules, or maybe a two level ban. First offense would ban the user from posting in most sections of the forum, but still allow to post in the support.

What I meant by "not the only restaurant in town" was that hashtalk is a part of their company. If someone doesn't like how it's run and can't come to terms with its rules (or their lack) he shouldn't struggle and move on.
I've been banned from a number of forums in my life, KNC being one of them, and It never bothered me.

Guys,

Is this thread / forum still about MINING - even virtual - ...or is degenerating to the point of wild talk about endless GAW bullshit...forum ...banning ...and other non-sense 

Cheers,

ZiG

[kingscrown]

BTC withdrawal is working again

and if you buy primes trought this link they are still available

[suchmoon]

There are some new pictures:

https://hashtalk.org/topic/12157/lots-and-lots-of-miners

https://i.imgur.com/bgGSEVf.jpg

Looks like 300-400 TH/s of SHA256 in two rows of shelves, not quite clear if that's all of them or just a weird angle.

This makes about 5 BTC per day gross, about 3 BTC net at 0.1 USD per kWh if my math is correct.

[coinGeek]

There are some new pictures:

https://hashtalk.org/topic/12157/lots-and-lots-of-miners

https://i.imgur.com/bgGSEVf.jpg

Looks like 300-400 TH/s of SHA256 in two rows of shelves, not quite clear if that's all of them or just a weird angle.

This makes about 5 BTC per day gross, about 3 BTC net at 0.1 USD per kWh if my math is correct.

Strange though that there are power outlets in view with nothing plugged in, and if you zoom in the fans don't seem to be turning. So, maybe not too many BTC per day like that.

Edit: Lot's of network cables though (or is that power?) so they are on the way to being set up. That or a lot of effort just to fake a shot and keep the merchandise dust free...

Edit2: No, the power inputs are on the side with nothing plugged in yet. Impressive but quiet so far.