GAW ZenCloud ZenPool Hashlet - does it really exist? ALWAYS MAKE MONEY :-)

[numanoid]

CEO of what, 12 employees? You can't compare him to someone with thousands or even hundreds of employees. Just more hogwash from the zealots.

OK, so let me make this easy for you.  Do you think Jobs, as CEO of 2 people, knew what Wozniak did?  Of course not.  I'm not a zealot, I'm using common sense.

[numanoid]

Pretty ugly bastards. Amber is cute tho.

Yeah, Amber is hot as hell.  Not everyone likes that kind of style, but I'm alllll over that!

Don't forget to wash your hands when you're done  

[MOB]

Anyway, to get back to the topic at hand (no pun intended) and away from the creepiness.

After watching the video, it really does seem like Josh believes this crap. So I guess ego, arrogance, and ignorance seem more likely to me at this point versus pure bottom-sucking thievery. Not that intention makes money any less lost in an investment.

[numanoid]

Anyway, to get back to the topic at hand (no pun intended) and away from the creepiness.

After watching the video, it really does seem like Josh believes this crap. So I guess ego, arrogance, and ignorance seem more likely to me at this point versus pure bottom-sucking thievery. Not that intention makes money any less lost in an investment.

I'm likely in the minority here, but I don't believe, for one second, Josh is out to scam people.  I think he DOES believe in this wholeheartedly and may not understand what he's getting into.  I also don't subscribe to the idea that he's doing it to get rich and will ditch first chance.  The guy has already created and sold a telecom company and was driving a Ferrari 458 Italia before the Gen A asics (where they *really* made money) were for sale.  But who knows.  I don't.

On a related note, the new GAW_GM guy is really kicking ass on open tickets.  My previous payout issue (.008 BTC only) took more than 3 weeks to resolve.  He opened a thread last night to get people to post their tickets for immediate resolution and I opened a ticket for a .035 BTC payout issue and it was resolved by today.  He has another thread open as well tonight.

If they can keep this up, they may be able to regain some credibility in the customer service arena.

Edit to add a little more creepiness:  I'd want Amber to wear her glasses to bed.  Ok, sorry.  I'm done.  Had to get it out of my system here or I'd be banned "over there."

[reeko400.1]

Anyway, to get back to the topic at hand (no pun intended) and away from the creepiness.

After watching the video, it really does seem like Josh believes this crap. So I guess ego, arrogance, and ignorance seem more likely to me at this point versus pure bottom-sucking thievery. Not that intention makes money any less lost in an investment.

I'm likely in the minority here, but I don't believe, for one second, Josh is out to scam people.  I think he DOES believe in this wholeheartedly and may not understand what he's getting into.  I also don't subscribe to the idea that he's doing it to get rich and will ditch first chance.  The guy has already created and sold a telecom company and was driving a Ferrari 458 Italia before the Gen A asics (where they *really* made money) were for sale.  But who knows.  I don't.

On a related note, the new GAW_GM guy is really kicking ass on open tickets.  My previous payout issue (.008 BTC only) took more than 3 weeks to resolve.  He opened a thread last night to get people to post their tickets for immediate resolution and I opened a ticket for a .035 BTC payout issue and it was resolved by today.  He has another thread open as well tonight.

If they can keep this up, they may be able to regain some credibility in the customer service arena.

Edit to add a little more creepiness:  I'd want Amber to wear her glasses to bed.  Ok, sorry.  I'm done.  Had to get it out of my system here or I'd be banned "over there."

Opening a thread like that is so they can show they are doing something and hope that people will post praise. Why can't it be properly resolved through their support channel? Why are people of hashtalk getting priority over someone who just submits a ticket.

[KC6TTR]

Thermal dynamics if mining rewards??... haaaa... too complicated for Mr. CEO to explain??

Man, you really have some bias since you got booted from HT.  Do you honestly think that CEOs should know the inner workings of the code of their products?  Do you know who Michael Abrash and John Carmack are?  You think their bosses have any idea of the formulas they use to get things done?

I'm not sold on this coin yet.  I have no choice but to mine the hashpoints and see what happens.  Zen Pool pays nothing now.  As someone posted elsewhere, even if Hash Coin debuts at $1 per, it's still more profit than mining the Zen Pool.

Oddly enough, the answer to the thermodynamics question was a good one.  If they had simply stated that in the damn "whitepaper" they wouldn't have come across as so stupid.  It's also a nice addition to the coin.  No more halvings in the traditional sense.

Well, without getting in to the details too much, I actually liked and supported Josh in the beginning and put some of my crypto sludge fund investment $ in excess of $10K where I thought it could help benefit his business (at least on a small scale compared to some of the "whales"). When I first researched Josh, he reminded me of myself 18 years ago when I first started out in the wireless industry before transitioning over to the crypto smart-chip card arena in Asia and Germany among others. However, as time (90 days or so) went on and things didn't seem to add-up anymore I started to have questions. When these questions where either ignored, not answered completely, deferred to others, or simply censored, I lost faith in the business and how Josh was handling things. The repeated changes to the TOS without disclosure, broken commitments, weekly business "rule" changes, and finally me being banned for no ethical or professional reason when I have given Josh legitimate business advice both publicly and privately was the final straw. I sold everything and here I am.  

Regardless of all this, I do not personally know Josh other than our emails and 1 or 2 video chats with him and others. As a person who appears to be married with children, I do not wish any ill on him or his family. However, on a professional level, the more I learn about his actions since his entering the crypto scene in January/February, the more disheartened I become. He is handling other peoples' money in a careless/dangerous manner and not living up to the ethical standards this industry desperately requires to continue its progression in to mainstream adoption.

Of course the CEO and all other stakeholders of a technology based business must know what they are selling inside and out. Properly delegating any aspect of the business requires the complete understanding and ability to know who fits each role properly. THAT is what insures efficiency and success; even in a small business environment. Before starting my first technology company, I was a tech geek by trade and having the eventual ability to project and explain what I was selling to both engineers and less techie marketing professionals at the same time was the key to my success. Dig deep enough in to other tech industry biographies and you will likely find many similar stories that follow the same progression. It's not rocket science, but does require come common sense and experience that goes beyond what can be learned in business school alone.

Scott-

[Snipe85]

Anyway, to get back to the topic at hand (no pun intended) and away from the creepiness.

After watching the video, it really does seem like Josh believes this crap. So I guess ego, arrogance, and ignorance seem more likely to me at this point versus pure bottom-sucking thievery. Not that intention makes money any less lost in an investment.

I'm likely in the minority here, but I don't believe, for one second, Josh is out to scam people.  I think he DOES believe in this wholeheartedly and may not understand what he's getting into.  I also don't subscribe to the idea that he's doing it to get rich and will ditch first chance.  The guy has already created and sold a telecom company and was driving a Ferrari 458 Italia before the Gen A asics (where they *really* made money) were for sale.  But who knows.  I don't.

On a related note, the new GAW_GM guy is really kicking ass on open tickets.  My previous payout issue (.008 BTC only) took more than 3 weeks to resolve.  He opened a thread last night to get people to post their tickets for immediate resolution and I opened a ticket for a .035 BTC payout issue and it was resolved by today.  He has another thread open as well tonight.

If they can keep this up, they may be able to regain some credibility in the customer service arena.

Edit to add a little more creepiness:  I'd want Amber to wear her glasses to bed.  Ok, sorry.  I'm done.  Had to get it out of my system here or I'd be banned "over there."

You guys are hillarious. I hope Amber never finds this thread.

Josh could have gone the easy way of selling and hosting hardware. If it makes you money keep at it, why change the company's trade from selling to hosting to cloud mining and finally to what? Minting and pumping?
If I were him I'd just sign up partnerships with all the non scammy hardware suppliers and continue being the largest reseller in the States.

[numanoid]

Thermal dynamics if mining rewards??... haaaa... too complicated for Mr. CEO to explain??

Man, you really have some bias since you got booted from HT.  Do you honestly think that CEOs should know the inner workings of the code of their products?  Do you know who Michael Abrash and John Carmack are?  You think their bosses have any idea of the formulas they use to get things done?

I'm not sold on this coin yet.  I have no choice but to mine the hashpoints and see what happens.  Zen Pool pays nothing now.  As someone posted elsewhere, even if Hash Coin debuts at $1 per, it's still more profit than mining the Zen Pool.

Oddly enough, the answer to the thermodynamics question was a good one.  If they had simply stated that in the damn "whitepaper" they wouldn't have come across as so stupid.  It's also a nice addition to the coin.  No more halvings in the traditional sense.

Well, without getting in to the details too much, I actually liked and supported Josh in the beginning and put some of my crypto sludge fund investment $ in excess of $10K where I thought it could help benefit his business (at least on a small scale compared to some of the "whales"). When I first researched Josh, he reminded me of myself 18 years ago when I first started out in the wireless industry before transitioning over to the crypto smart-chip card arena in Asia and Germany among others. However, as time (90 days or so) went on and things didn't seem to add-up anymore I started to have questions. When these questions where either ignored, not answered completely, deferred to others, or simply censored, I lost faith in the business and how Josh was handling things. The repeated changes to the TOS without disclosure, broken commitments, weekly business "rule" changes, and finally me being banned for no ethical or professional reason when I have given Josh legitimate business advice both publically and privately was the final straw. I sold everything and here I am.  

Regardless of all this, I do not personally know Josh other than our emails and 1 or 2 video chats with him and others. As a person who appears to be married with children, I do not wish any ill on him or his family. However, on a professional level, the more I learn about his actions since entering the crypto scene in January/February, the more disheartened I become. He is handling other peoples' money in a dangerous manner and not living up to the ethical standards this industry desperately requires to continue its progression in to mainstream adoption.

Of course the CEO and all other stakeholders of a technology based business must know what they are selling inside and out. Properly delegating any aspect of the business requires the complete understanding and the ability to know who fits each role properly. THAT is what insures efficiency and success; even in a small business environment. Before starting my first technology company, I was a tech geek by trade and having the eventual ability to project and explain what I was selling to both engineers and less techie marketing professionals at the same time was the key to my success. Dig deep enough in to other tech industry biographies and you will likely find many similar stories that follow the same progression. It's not rocket science, but does require come common sense and experience that goes beyond what can be learned in business school alone.

Scott-

Scott, I remember you well from the old forum and enjoyed your posts.  Sadly, the new Hash Talk is full of a bunch of people I don't even know anymore.  The forum lost a lot of good people and in some cases, for bad reasons.

I also applaud what you're doing.  Having an entity look out for miners/investors is a great thing!  With that power also comes responsibility.  In my opinion, you need to let go of any bias you have and represent the facts at hand here.  Seeing you compare Josh to Moolah completely discredits anything on your site.  I was a moolah supporter, so yeah, I was wrong there, but comparing Alex/Ryan to a CEO with a documented past is a night and day comparison.  The very fact that you had video chats with Josh puts him in a whole different arena than Moolah.

I'm not going to tell you how to run your site, but is an alleged SEC "complaint" reason enough to remove GAW from your list?  Could I not make a complaint tomorrow out of spite?  I see you listed a reference to said complaint, but no way to look it up.  Take ANY multi-million dollar company and you will find "complaints" galore.  BBB, Personal Blogs, legitimate regulators, etc.  Complaints mean nothing in and of itself.  It goes back to the power you have running this site.  You owe it to your users to represent things fairly.

That said, why isn't LTC Gear in your list?  I'm trying to find more legit info on them.

I'll just end this post with I likely share a lot of the questions you had and are having with GAW.  I've been vocal about them on their site as well, but I frame them, for the most part, respectfully.  I crave more cut and dry answers instead of the vague ones I see most often.  But gut feelings aren't fact.

Anyway, good luck on your site, if done properly, it's a great asset for us little guys.  Can you tell me where you've got your money at now in cryptos?  Feel free to PM if you don't want to disclose for whatever reason.  I'm always looking to diversify into trusted companies.

[numanoid]

You guys are hillarious. I hope Amber never finds this thread.

Josh could have gone the easy way of selling and hosting hardware. If it makes you money keep at it, why change the company's trade from selling to hosting to cloud mining and finally to what? Minting and pumping?
If I were him I'd just sign up partnerships with all the non scammy hardware suppliers and continue being the largest reseller in the States.

I agree on all points. Especially the part about Amber not seeing my posts

That said, to me it's clear that Josh thinks he can truly reshape the crypto landscape.  He's absolutely right, IMO, on the volatility of BTC and Cryptos in general.  A fiat based reserve is a big help to this problem.  My issue is how can a mere $30 million reserve back up a nearly 2 billion dollar market cap at the ICO price of $20?  I'm having a hard time with that math.  Maybe I'm taking the $30 million off of a previous statement and not following the 1/3 reserve (of $2B) posted on the hashcoin site.  EDIT:  It appears the 30M is not valid.  The site calls out that 33.33 (repeating of course)% of the ICO goes to the fiat reserve, which is a good thing.

On a related note, I also think that having a regulated bank involved with the crypto will also speed up corporate adoption.  While this may be against the philosophy of Bitcoin, it's needed to integrate into our current world financial model.  The Windhover principles also touch on this aspect and while I prefer a pure BTC philosophy, I understand that exceptions are needed for adoption.  Josh is trying to address this and he may be right.

I think his vision is correct, but God knows how the execution will play out.  I think we all have our stories on GAW execution.

One last thing on Amber:  She has been outstanding in addressing issues for me and many others for many months.  No Creep involved.

[suchmoon]

You guys are hillarious. I hope Amber never finds this thread.

Josh could have gone the easy way of selling and hosting hardware. If it makes you money keep at it, why change the company's trade from selling to hosting to cloud mining and finally to what? Minting and pumping?
If I were him I'd just sign up partnerships with all the non scammy hardware suppliers and continue being the largest reseller in the States.

I don't think hosting hardware was easy for them. They had issues with everything from Gridseed to Gen A. Power delivery was quoted as of the biggest problems. That was one of the reasons why I started this thread - how could they turn this problematic side of their business into the flawless ZenCloud and later into hashlets. I also don't believe their margins on reselling and hosting were as large some may think. See the recently discontinued "legacy" hosting. Clearly some miscalculation was made somewhere that led to this premature end. Shipping logistics and support also wasn't exactly their forte, but I may be biased on that one since I had a TON of issues that just defy common sense in some cases.

I would say it's more likely that the cut-throat reseller market with prices halving every month was what forced them into the more lucrative cloud business, and not some mysterious drive for innovation. They also didn't seem to play nice with their vendors, constantly blaming everyone from Gridseed to Zeus to DHL and even the US Postal Service.

[KC6TTR]

One last thing on Amber:  She has been outstanding in addressing issues for me and many others for many months.  No Creep involved.

Also, out of respect for Amber, who I am told is married to Zenminer Eric, lets leave her out of the (sexist) aspects of our discussions, guys. Regardless of my feelings for the company and what I believe is going on there, she is not a target of my overall suspicions.  

Scott-

[numanoid]

One last thing on Amber:  She has been outstanding in addressing issues for me and many others for many months.  No Creep involved.

Also, out of respect for Amber, who I am told is married to Zenminer Eric, lets leave her out of the (sexist) aspects of our discussions, guys. Regardless of my feelings for the company and what I believe is going on there, she is not a target of my overall suspicions.  

Scott-

Well thanks for crushing us all.  Married!

[I_IZ_CEO]

One last thing on Amber:  She has been outstanding in addressing issues for me and many others for many months.  No Creep involved.

Also, out of respect for Amber, who I am told is married to Zenminer Eric, lets leave her out of the (sexist) aspects of our discussions, guys. Regardless of my feelings for the company and what I believe is going on there, she is not a target of my overall suspicions.  

Scott-

I agree with ^^^ this.... She has tried her best to help, when I had problems she did her best to help me and she is married.

[KC6TTR]

Scott, I remember you well from the old forum and enjoyed your posts.  Sadly, the new Hash Talk is full of a bunch of people I don't even know anymore.  The forum lost a lot of good people and in some cases, for bad reasons.

I also applaud what you're doing.  Having an entity look out for miners/investors is a great thing!  With that power also comes responsibility.  In my opinion, you need to let go of any bias you have and represent the facts at hand here.  Seeing you compare Josh to Moolah completely discredits anything on your site.  I was a moolah supporter, so yeah, I was wrong there, but comparing Alex/Ryan to a CEO with a documented past is a night and day comparison.  The very fact that you had video chats with Josh puts him in a whole different arena than Moolah.

I'm not going to tell you how to run your site, but is an alleged SEC "complaint" reason enough to remove GAW from your list?  Could I not make a complaint tomorrow out of spite?  I see you listed a reference to said complaint, but no way to look it up.  Take ANY multi-million dollar company and you will find "complaints" galore.  BBB, Personal Blogs, legitimate regulators, etc.  Complaints mean nothing in and of itself.  It goes back to the power you have running this site.  You owe it to your users to represent things fairly.

That said, why isn't LTC Gear in your list?  I'm trying to find more legit info on them.

I'll just end this post with I likely share a lot of the questions you had and are having with GAW.  I've been vocal about them on their site as well, but I frame them, for the most part, respectfully.  I crave more cut and dry answers instead of the vague ones I see most often.  But gut feelings aren't fact.

Anyway, good luck on your site, if done properly, it's a great asset for us little guys.  Can you tell me where you've got your money at now in cryptos?  Feel free to PM if you don't want to disclose for whatever reason.  I'm always looking to diversify into trusted companies.

I appreciate the kind words and the candor of your reply. Like me or not, I am blunt and direct dialogue is welcomed. Yes, I'm not proud; I am passionate about business matters that affect me directly or those who I have worked with. Likewise, if I see someone attempting to take credit in whole or part for technology or concepts they never took part in developing, I consider that a preverbal slap in the face that justifies some response. Case in point, the foundation of me withdrawing the remainder of my support for Josh was after his claims of having "patented" the technology and trade marks that made-up what was being presented as the "Hashcard" payment card in Vegas and after they returned from the event there. Since the physical ISO-7816 "smartcard" standard was established more than two decades ago and the American Express Blue-Card was first issued in 1998 here in the US, myself alongside companies like ACS ltd, Gemplus, and Datakey have developed and evolved that sector of the crypto industry to a point that it is finally (after 10+ years of catching up with the rest of the world) becoming commonplace and will soon be required on all payment cards here within the US.

In regards to the SEC complaint filing, the published TCR reference number is from my own complaint filed. If needed, a copy of the PDF can be provided via PM or email. I also know of at least 4 others who have filed their complaints before me and one a day or so after me. With that said, it is up to these people, who have been threatened by GAW as well to choose whether or not to come forward and share their experience(s). If the SEC decides to act on the accusations, I am sure all the relevant information will be made public with the appropriate administrative/case numbers and if they choose to decline action, so be it. The bottom line is I cannot recommend GAW/Zen for the reasons given and I stand behind my position. By the way. I have moved that reference and the ZeusHash disassociation to a separate section of the web site, which I believe will keep things in better context in the short term. Likewise, I am working with another member of these forms (eightcylinders) to help him develop larger and much more detailed (customer submitted) score cards for as many of the cloud mining services as possible. More info can be reviewed here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=846407.msg9438956#msg9438956

As the advocate site I am facilitating grows, I will be taking more of a back seat and will leave any perceived bias at the front door. In regards to posts here and other BTC forums, I will do my best to stay on topic, but I believe I have more than proved my position and justification for why I take issue with GAW/Zen and do not see that changing for the time being or at least until some more clarification and transparency is established on the part of GAW/Zen relating to their actions and what is really going on once all the white-noise (hype) is filtered out.

Scott-

[Oldminer]

So I just decided to check my support ticket regards my last remaining hashlet that I am unable to split or sell, and I suddenly recalled Magical Josh saying a few weeks ago that ALL support tickets would be up to date by the following Friday, which if I recall correctly was the 24th of October.

So I login to their support desk and I see this



No surprises here...

But meh, who gives a fuck...it was after all, just another one of Magical Josh's crazy promises that he was never going to be able to fulfill 

[KC6TTR]

Can you tell me where you've got your money at now in cryptos?  Feel free to PM if you don't want to disclose for whatever reason.  I'm always looking to diversify into trusted companies.

I have 296MH/s of Scrypt and 1,800GH/s of SHA256 mining on my solar powered home-based farm.

My cloud mining activity is currently:
Genesis-Mining: 200MH/s Scrypt
BitcoinCloudServices 13,200GH/s SHA256
LTCGear: 3200 shares (320MH/s) Scrypt
Hashie (test account): 300GH/s SHA256
Zeushash (test account - can't sell!): 11MH/s Scrypt

Scott-

[PhiPhi]

He is handling other peoples' money in a careless/dangerous manner and not living up to the ethical standards this industry desperately requires to continue its progression in to mainstream adoption.

Scott

Well said!  That one sentence sums it all up for me, I was amazed at the cavalier way in which underpayments, claw-backs, nonpayments and opaque pool payouts are dealt with, to me it demonstrates either gross incompetence, negligence, indifference or worse towards the miner's (turned investors) funds.  On that basis alone I took a 30% hit, got out and in the scheme of things I consider that a win! 
 

[Oldminer]

He is handling other peoples' money in a careless/dangerous manner and not living up to the ethical standards this industry desperately requires to continue its progression in to mainstream adoption.

Scott

Well said!  That one sentence sums it all up for me, I was amazed at the cavalier way in which underpayments, claw-backs, nonpayments and opaque pool payouts are dealt with, to me it demonstrates either gross incompetence, negligence, indifference or worse towards the miner's (turned investors) funds.  On that basis alone I took a 30% hit, got out and in the scheme of things I consider that a win!  
 

I pretty much doubled my investment & Im very happy. I bought most of my primes @$16 and sold @ $40 when it was way over-valued. I think magical josh had a great plan but he didnt have the fortitude to continue with it. Either that or he grew too big too fast and maybe spent too much of the profit on Vegas? IMO you can lose a lot of money gambling and at the very least such public exorbitance was a bad move at the time.

[Collider]

I personally think that GAW has identified some of the key problems with many cryptos and is trying their best at solving them.

Many people share the idea that the development of the Bitcoin code is basically at a standstill (with little to no new features or improvements being introduced), and that it is still too complicated for the average citizen to use.

GAWs idea of a fund which promotes the coin and helps widen merchant adoption is a good one, and if anything it will help the cryptocurrency space as a whole improve.


They have the funds to develop a superb platform for their new coin (although it will likely take some time), so we will definately see some new ideas taking shape and maybe be implemented in BTC aswell.

In a time where industrial scale mining dominates bitcoin, and little new ideas are being proposed, it is atleast an interesting solution and I am excited to see what will happen.


In a few months we will all be wiser and see what prevails. GAWs codenamed "hashcoin" is designed to work in conjunction with bitcoin, using a sha256 hybrid blockchain featuring faster confirmations.
I would not see it as a threat to bitcoin as a whole, but as an addition to the ecosystem.

Renewing the wide-spread talks about how a cryptocurrency should work and how current issues are handled is a welcome advantage of such a big coin launch.

[nexus84]

But you would have made even more money if you kept the primes.
You would have generated a nice income + mining HashPool (for HashCoin ICO).
And even if you sold them now, they are valued more than $40 each on the open market.

Bought most of them around $17, that was a very nice investment.

I think Josh is really trying to make something innovative, and I hope he will succeed.