ECCoin (ECC) Takeover by Trusted-Cryptos Team [Griffith]

[renbit]

things good for ecc now that Griffith has done such a good job on fixing wallet issues

1) generating some promo hype and getting trade back on other markets

https://twitter.com/renbabble/status/516303568408940545

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[renbit]

The wallet GUI is a great job.

The thing that lets this coin down for me is the low PoS. The network has little incentive to be maintained : watch it slow down. I know that the PoS was lowered, but I am having one more try to put my side of the argument for raising it. I have a lot of experience here, and have seen nothing which endears me to small % staking, despite extensive research. The PoS can be tapered down over the course of a couple of years, which addresses concerns about inflation, but the network benefits of high PoS are desperately needed in the fragile early stages.


I recommend increasing the stake to AT LEAST 150% pa. This will give ECC a chance to revive properly. There is an association of high PoS coins, which is great for network support.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=783697.80


I believe many posters will eventually understand how this works for PoS coins, but might not get there until it is too late.

investing your btc/ltc at this time whilst ecc is so cheap will also increase the amount of return from POS as it is without another overhaul.

[Majormax]

Great work is being done, but please can we increase the rate of PoS in order to save this coin ? 

 We need a discussion here about the PoS... I do not want to see the death of the network if there is not a better incentive to open wallets, and also a chance for fresh buyers to acquire significant parcels of coins.

Many people hold a number of different PoS coins, and will only want to stake the best yielding ones. That will apply for more and more holders in future.

[Griffith]

Great work is being done, but please can we increase the rate of PoS in order to save this coin ? 

 We need a discussion here about the PoS... I do not want to see the death of the network if there is not a better incentive to open wallets, and also a chance for fresh buyers to acquire significant parcels of coins.

Many people hold a number of different PoS coins, and will only want to stake the best yielding ones. That will apply for more and more holders in future.

it is at 25% right now. i will consider changing the rate from my original planned formula but i need a good reason to do it. what are your exact thoughts?

[Majormax]

Great work is being done, but please can we increase the rate of PoS in order to save this coin ?  

 We need a discussion here about the PoS... I do not want to see the death of the network if there is not a better incentive to open wallets, and also a chance for fresh buyers to acquire significant parcels of coins.

Many people hold a number of different PoS coins, and will only want to stake the best yielding ones. That will apply for more and more holders in future.

it is at 25% right now. i will consider changing the rate from my original planned formula but i need a good reason to do it. what are your exact thoughts?

There are so many altcoins, that the vast majority of them are destined to become extinct. Only those with large communities and strong networks have any chance of surviving the 'nuclear winter'. There are hundreds of coins in competition for a limited number of core community members (only committed altcoin diehards will stick with this through a long attrition).

Stake is viewed as a kind of ROI by most people (whether in error or not), and a high % foments more activity. Sellers need to make coin available , in quantity, and cheaply, to draw in fresh adopters. The price on the markets thoughout this phase is immaterial: the outcome as I see it is binary, live or die... wider adoption and open wallets are the only thing that will save PoS coins, and a very high PoS will provide those things.

Look at it this way: How do we distinguish ECC from the rest and encourage defection from other coins ?
I can already see the high PoS coins gaining ground against the others (excepting the very large ones like PPC etc).  There is no downside to increasing PoS, because it can always be reduced in a taper later,(say 2 years) when survival may be assured.

This is not a whim, but rather the result of daily research and close interaction on my part, with 80+ different coins for more than 18 months.

It is my opinion, but I welcome opposing views : I would rather be persuaded that a low PoS was better. Maybe 25% is enough, but what are the objections to a significant rise ?

[BarTeam]

Higher PoS % interest can potentially bring more money, but "if the minimal PoS age is not low or if old coins do not stake" it can be bad to ECC blockchain and to a fluid network.

I do understand that to create motivation "money" should be the "initial" interest. But let's face one fact. Even looking at current price of ECC, there are tons of users that do not touch their wallets from some time (some due to giving up, other due disinterest, etc). If we boost the PoS rate, those users will still not turn their wallets because price is poor. So, in my opinion higher PoS % rate, will not bring price up (unless if we kind of do, super inflation, that consequently will drop later the price, after normalizing the PoS % rate).

I think that to bring network up to a stable point, PoS % should benefit more (70/30 distribution for example or even 50/50 could make sense) the ones "running" the wallet. I know this is the opposite of "green" for the initial ECC concept, but in reality that is what can bring future price up. Why? Anyone will be able to benefit from higher PoS % rates and not just the bag holders. This will result in more potential buyers of ECC and therefore higher rise of ECC price.

Let me detail:

In a 70/30 distribution, 70% will be based on normal PoS and 30% over the wallet running status. The longer the wallet stays up the faster will can reach 100% of 30% (in the 70/30 distribution). Using higher PoS can be then maintained by using a 25% rate. Where the ones that just care for getting their wallets offline, will receive 70% of 25% rate.. and the ones that stay up with their wallets, 70%+30% of 25% rate interest.

Of course this would mean other things, one of them trusted seed nodes and so on. But I think that by first establishing the "mode of operation" can sort out how to do the second one. There are many systems already, based on voting or other features.

Feel free to comment =) Great discussion.

[sluppy]

Higher PoS % interest can potentially bring more money, but "if the minimal PoS age is not low or if old coins do not stake" it can be bad to ECC blockchain and to a fluid network.

I do understand that to create motivation "money" should be the "initial" interest. But let's face one fact. Even looking at current price of ECC, there are tons of users that do not touch their wallets from some time (some due to giving up, other due disinterest, etc). If we boost the PoS rate, those users will still not turn their wallets because price is poor. So, in my opinion higher PoS % rate, will not bring price up (unless if we kind of do, super inflation, that consequently will drop later the price, after normalizing the PoS % rate).

I think that to bring network up to a stable point, PoS % should benefit more (70/30 distribution for example or even 50/50 could make sense) the ones "running" the wallet. I know this is the opposite of "green" for the initial ECC concept, but in reality that is what can bring future price up. Why? Anyone will be able to benefit from higher PoS % rates and not just the bag holders. This will result in more potential buyers of ECC and therefore higher rise of ECC price.

Let me detail:

In a 70/30 distribution, 70% will be based on normal PoS and 30% over the wallet running status. The longer the wallet stays up the faster will can reach 100% of 30% (in the 70/30 distribution). Using higher PoS can be then maintained by using a 25% rate. Where the ones that just care for getting their wallets offline, will receive 70% of 25% rate.. and the ones that stay up with their wallets, 70%+30% of 25% rate interest.

Of course this would mean other things, one of them trusted seed nodes and so on. But I think that by first establishing the "mode of operation" can sort out how to do the second one. There are many systems already, based on voting or other features.

Feel free to comment =) Great discussion.

+1

just found my way back to this coin it Sweet wallet update nice work beeing done here.

[kiklo]

it is at 25% right now.

25% is very good, nothing in the real world beats that.

All of the other coins with the super high rates have a much lower # of coins than ECC,
Examples
Tek 40% per month  only  2,398,786  Coin Total
Diamond  50% per year only 369,496  Coins Total

With these low volume of coins , it is easier for a few players to keep the prices in a higher range.
ECC has over 18,000,000 coins in circulation, not an amount that can be easily dominated by a few people. But ECC is a Full POS coin , it can survive low prices , the only thing you need to do is leave your ECC Wallet open to keep the ECC network running. Mainstream acceptance of crypto is only a few years away, once that happens All Crypto are going to have a massive influx of capital.
Think about it like this, would you rather have 100 of the other coins, or 1 million of ECC, when the mainstream capital comes pouring in. When that happens the more coins you have, the happier you will be.
Basically it is not today, or next week prices, that matter , it is the price that happens when crypto becomes mainstream, and then whoever has the most coins will reap the largest bounty.

Just my 2 million ECC.
 

[kiklo]

Someone needs to contact comkort.com exchange,
they are saying no blocks found in like 24 hours,
but the ecc block explorer has some only 13 minutes ago.

 


FYI:
Don't know if this is the problem but http://38.93.234.101:3000 - Block Explorer (Sheepman)' is down.
Griffith's Block explorer is working.

[Griffith]

Someone needs to contact comkort.com exchange,
they are saying no blocks found in like 24 hours,
but the ecc block explorer has some only 13 minutes ago.

 


FYI:
Don't know if this is the problem but http://38.93.234.101:3000 - Block Explorer (Sheepman)' is down.
Griffith's Block explorer is working.

yeah, i will contact them. i dont know whats up with them. everyone else is fine.

i will also message sheepman.

im also reading the PoS discussion but have decided to not give any input yet. id like to see more opinions first.

[wain-m]

http://I sent coins to my another ECC wallet, so to help expedite network?

[Majormax]

it is at 25% right now.

25% is very good, nothing in the real world beats that.

All of the other coins with the super high rates have a much lower # of coins than ECC,
Examples
Tek 40% per month  only  2,398,786  Coin Total
Diamond  50% per year only 369,496  Coins Total

With these low volume of coins , it is easier for a few players to keep the prices in a higher range.
ECC has over 18,000,000 coins in circulation, not an amount that can be easily dominated by a few people. But ECC is a Full POS coin , it can survive low prices , the only thing you need to do is leave your ECC Wallet open to keep the ECC network running. Mainstream acceptance of crypto is only a few years away, once that happens All Crypto are going to have a massive influx of capital.
Think about it like this, would you rather have 100 of the other coins, or 1 million of ECC, when the mainstream capital comes pouring in. When that happens the more coins you have, the happier you will be.
Basically it is not today, or next week prices, that matter , it is the price that happens when crypto becomes mainstream, and then whoever has the most coins will reap the largest bounty.

Just my 2 million ECC.
 

Agree that price is not the relevant issue , but I don't really see the relevance of the number of coins on the network control either. You quote 18,000,000 and it's actually 1000x that, which rather disproves that point. x100, x1000, x1m, whatever.

My main point is that we need numbers of users and holders asap, because there is no reason for them to turn up later (over and above any other coin), and ECC has to survive until mainstream, above all.  The attraction for new users is the 'free' stake. You can read the theory in this thread : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=783697.100;topicseen   if you want to know why: go from the beginning.

[kiklo]

it is at 25% right now.

25% is very good, nothing in the real world beats that.

All of the other coins with the super high rates have a much lower # of coins than ECC,
Examples
Tek 40% per month  only  2,398,786  Coin Total
Diamond  50% per year only 369,496  Coins Total

With these low volume of coins , it is easier for a few players to keep the prices in a higher range.
ECC has over 18,000,000 coins in circulation, not an amount that can be easily dominated by a few people. But ECC is a Full POS coin , it can survive low prices , the only thing you need to do is leave your ECC Wallet open to keep the ECC network running. Mainstream acceptance of crypto is only a few years away, once that happens All Crypto are going to have a massive influx of capital.
Think about it like this, would you rather have 100 of the other coins, or 1 million of ECC, when the mainstream capital comes pouring in. When that happens the more coins you have, the happier you will be.
Basically it is not today, or next week prices, that matter , it is the price that happens when crypto becomes mainstream, and then whoever has the most coins will reap the largest bounty.

Just my 2 million ECC.
 

Agree that price is not the relevant issue , but I don't really see the relevance of the number of coins on the network control either. You quote 18,000,000 and it's actually 1000x that, which rather disproves that point. x100, x1000, x1m, whatever.

My main point is that we need numbers of users and holders asap, because there is no reason for them to turn up later (over and above any other coin), and ECC has to survive until mainstream, above all.  The attraction for new users is the 'free' stake. You can read the theory in this thread : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=783697.100;topicseen   if you want to know why: go from the beginning.

ok , missed a few 0s, over 18,000,000,000 of ECC if that is better for you , but was spot on on the others.
A typo on my part does not mean your assertions are correct, just means I made a typo.
My point is that the price of all coins will increase when they become mainstream.

If you want to increase number of users right now setup some faucets to increase the number of wallets out there. like http://www.multifaucet.tk/
That is free coins and it is right away and the users will have to setup a wallet to even receive them,
or setup bounties for something paid in eccoins.

The only way you can up the interest rate as high as what you want to do , is if you do a reverse split like 100000 to 1, so 18,000,000,000 becomes 180,000, then you can set whatever interest rate you want without major problems in the future. If the rate hike happens with the current # of coins at the current demand level , it will be suicide for eccoin not success.

 

FYI:
ECCTrade on Comkort.com & Swisscex.com exchanges are currently down.

[Majormax]

I believe that the majority of altcoin users miss the point that high inflation is an extremely important thing to have, in order to drive currency velocity and adoption. A deflationary currency encourages hoarding (fixed supply) and not spending, thus the holders hold on to it, driving a cycle of decline in velocity and thus stagnation.

Unlike Fiat, Cryptocurrencies have little or no real-world need to be spent, and thus holders of non-inflationary currencies can artificially and temporarily raise price by speculation, but the price always peaks and then drifts to new lows. This is because the currency is concentrating in fewer hands all the time, who are holding (not spending) it, and thus a cycle of falling velocity and less distribution (with unequal distribution) continues.

This is actually happening in Fiat currencies (Japan is well down the road), but it is much slower owing to the huge need for spending Fiat. The holders of cash are getting larger and larger balances relative to everyone else, and currencies are in a slow death spiral (which is now beyond the event horizon, with interest rates at the zero bound). The 'apparent' rise in value of fiat currencies (so called deflation) is only a temporary symptom of the monetary (true) inflation that has occurred, and has been caused by the hoarders of fiat (the 1% or whatever) pursuing monetary policies designed to limit price rises (rises = so-called inflation).

Whilst inflation may discourage holders and investors in the early days and drive down the price short term, it is extremely important to redistribute the wealth from the holders to the spenders allowing an economy to work properly. The only reason this is working out currently with Bitcoin is that it will take years until it becomes deflationary and so far its mining inflation has worked out to great effect.

Concluding, I restate my thesis that a Cryptocurrency, in its early life , has nothing other than inflation to drive its wider adoption. Bitcoin did/does it with PoW mining (and that is Satoshis original intention). A PoS coin needs high inflation to drive adoption, and that can only be achieved through the PoS rate. As competition is very fierce, the ones with the highest PoS will have the best chance.
I would go so far as to suggest that even 1000% is not too much, provided that it only lasts for a limited period (maybe years), and is tapered after that.

[Griffith]

FYI:
ECCTrade on Comkort.com & Swisscex.com exchanges are currently down.

comkort is in contact with me. they are fixing it. swisscex is only doing LTC market at https://www.swisscex.com/market/ECC_LTC


i like the discussion so far.

only thing i am wondering is: Majormax why do you think that only high inflation will cause crypto adoption?

[Majormax]

FYI:
ECCTrade on Comkort.com & Swisscex.com exchanges are currently down.

comkort is in contact with me. they are fixing it. swisscex is only doing LTC market at https://www.swisscex.com/market/ECC_LTC


i like the discussion so far.

only thing i am wondering is: Majormax why do you think that only high inflation will cause crypto adoption?

Not just high inflation : Great technology, merchant use, huge promotions, thousands of community members will drive adoption better. However, high inflation is the most powerful driver that lies within the power of ECC community without incurring large costs.

ECC is pretty nearly inactive by comparison with its competitors : most of them are afraid of high inflation and it is a great way to steal a march on them, with nothing to lose.

I don't want to dominate this discussion, so please, let's hear from someone else, refuting my specific points.

[renbit]

FYI:
ECCTrade on Comkort.com & Swisscex.com exchanges are currently down.

comkort is in contact with me. they are fixing it. swisscex is only doing LTC market at https://www.swisscex.com/market/ECC_LTC


i like the discussion so far.

only thing i am wondering is: Majormax why do you think that only high inflation will cause crypto adoption?

Not just high inflation : Great technology, merchant use, huge promotions, thousands of community members will drive adoption better. However, high inflation is the most powerful driver that lies within the power of ECC community without incurring large costs.

ECC is pretty nearly inactive by comparison with its competitors : most of them are afraid of high inflation and it is a great way to steal a march on them, with nothing to lose.

I don't want to dominate this discussion, so please, let's hear from someone else, refuting my specific points.

1- Great technology, merchant use, huge promotions, thousands of community members will drive adoption better.
i'd like to hear some of your suggestions to acheive this aim Majormax as this is clearly fundamental.
2-(when you say ECC is pretty nearly inactive by comparison with its competitors )(specifically which? - the ones you mentioned as holding ? or others?? )-
i think the ecc community is increasing but then i dont have the stats.
3- can you reFute the deduction that you simply want loads more ecc without investing any more btc/ltc.
4- I am prepared to plant trees to offset any carbon emmission incurred from ecc use- think that was originally an idea for ecc - way back in the day (earlier this year)- although i use solar power i suspect that parts of the network and probably some of the electrons that are channelled through my computer have a carbon footprint that deserves to be addressed. anyone wishing to get involved with a tree for ecc plan - please say.
5- i think 25 percent is pretty good - i mean i think back in the day when it had a leaf on it and it was one of if not the first to go proof of stake, it was about 20 percent - correct me if i'm wrong - and besides ... Griffith has done the coin a great favour by all the hard work and effort , off his own volition , for which i am grateful and wouldn't want to see him spending all his waking hours doing extra little tweaks for no wages just  for the benefit of users who wanted more of a monopoly on the total coin weight . perhaps if on balance if it did end up look like a good idea to put up the interest there would be some sort of a cash incentive . discuss.

[Majormax]

FYI:
ECCTrade on Comkort.com & Swisscex.com exchanges are currently down.

comkort is in contact with me. they are fixing it. swisscex is only doing LTC market at https://www.swisscex.com/market/ECC_LTC


i like the discussion so far.

only thing i am wondering is: Majormax why do you think that only high inflation will cause crypto adoption?

Not just high inflation : Great technology, merchant use, huge promotions, thousands of community members will drive adoption better. However, high inflation is the most powerful driver that lies within the power of ECC community without incurring large costs.

ECC is pretty nearly inactive by comparison with its competitors : most of them are afraid of high inflation and it is a great way to steal a march on them, with nothing to lose.

I don't want to dominate this discussion, so please, let's hear from someone else, refuting my specific points.

1- Great technology, merchant use, huge promotions, thousands of community members will drive adoption better.
i'd like to hear some of your suggestions to acheive this aim Majormax as this is clearly fundamental.
2-(when you say ECC is pretty nearly inactive by comparison with its competitors )(specifically which? - the ones you mentioned as holding ? or others?? )-
i think the ecc community is increasing but then i dont have the stats.
3- can you reFute the deduction that you simply want loads more ecc without investing any more btc/ltc.
4- I am prepared to plant trees to offset any carbon emmission incurred from ecc use- think that was originally an idea for ecc - way back in the day (earlier this year)- although i use solar power i suspect that parts of the network and probably some of the electrons that are channelled through my computer have a carbon footprint that deserves to be addressed. anyone wishing to get involved with a tree for ecc plan - please say.
5- i think 25 percent is pretty good - i mean i think back in the day when it had a leaf on it and it was one of if not the first to go proof of stake, it was about 20 percent - correct me if i'm wrong - and besides ... Griffith has done the coin a great favour by all the hard work and effort , off his own volition , for which i am grateful and wouldn't want to see him spending all his waking hours doing extra little tweaks for no wages just  for the benefit of users who wanted more of a monopoly on the total coin weight . perhaps if on balance if it did end up look like a good idea to put up the interest there would be some sort of a cash incentive . discuss.

1. I am not suggesting any. The best I have to offer at present is higher stake.

2. Hyperstake, Hobonickels, Bottlecaps, Tekcoin, Supercoin, PPCoin (lower stake) Novacoin.

3. High stake does not benefit me specifically, but would benefit everyone who holds ECC. The value of my ECC holding will likely never get near 1% of my total Cryptoholdings (even if ECC multiplies massively from here). It would be better for me to give away my ECC (would save me some time, and I have done that with several other coins), as I am more interested in the technical and intellectual discussion.

4. Refer to reply above .

5. I think it started at 30%, but anyway, similar % to now. Griffith is doing great work : I like the new GUI.  

I too am here unpaid, in fact I spend about 20 hours a week in altcoins, and have done so for 16 months (with negligible reward) : my professional charging rate in my other 2 businesses is plenty, so money is hardly my motivation. I support dozens of coins, but obviously I have (very) limited time.

[kiklo]

# of coins are a major factor in High interest

Hyperstake  22,304,814    coins    750% yearly
Hobonickels   6,466,084    coins    2% every 10 days (~6% a month)
Bottlecaps     6,364,910    coins    200% yearly
TEKcoin         2,301,584   coins     40% Monthly (few bugs at the moment)
Supercoin      14,739,465  coins    1st year 100%, 2nd year 50%, then 1% forever

Notice none are over a billion, and when they get more coins they will most likely drop the rates.
Tek forum has discuss lowering rate.
Supercoin rate lowering is already set to 1%
Hyperstake is already placing limits on how much you can stake at one time.

ECC is over 18 billion now. Super High interest with high volume of coins with low demand is a death blow. Can not be done safely without massively lowering the number of ECC coins.
Also how will community react to a reverse split?

 

FYI:
Numbers are from http://coinmarketcap.com.

[Majormax]

# of coins are a major factor in High interest

Hyperstake  22,304,814    coins    750% yearly
Hobonickels   6,466,084    coins    2% every 10 days (~6% a month)
Bottlecaps     6,364,910    coins    200% yearly
TEKcoin         2,301,584   coins     40% Monthly (few bugs at the moment)
Supercoin      14,739,465  coins    1st year 100%, 2nd year 50%, then 1% forever

Notice none are over a billion, and when they get more coins they will most likely drop the rates.
Tek forum has discuss lowering rate.
Supercoin rate lowering is already set to 1%
Hyperstake is already placing limits on how much you can stake at one time.

ECC is over 18 billion now. Super High interest with high volume of coins with low demand is a death blow. Can not be done safely without massively lowering the number of ECC coins.
Also how will community react to a reverse split?

 

FYI:
Numbers are from http://coinmarketcap.com.

I think it would work better with billions of coins. The bar to mainstream adoption with most cryptos is not enough units.