Scientific proof that God exists?

[Mr.Bitty]

You can't find scientific proof for god, because the hypothesis, god exists, is not falsifiable, neither is the hypothesis, god doesn't exist.
Philosophical proofs with word games are not scientific proof.
Falsifiability is a core tenet of the scientific method.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability

Science is quite literally the wrong tool, but since science is the only tool we have for determining facts in the physical world, we are out of luck. Deductive logic can only determine truths that are self congruent, like mathematical truths. Science uses inference not deduction. You  can not deduce god from first principals, neither is there sufficient, if any, evidence to infer god.

Yes,Maybe to you God doesn't exist because you can\t see it or feel it,God is a spirit is not a body...and if you don't believe God exist look at all that He created .

[1714934069]

1714934069

[1714934069]

1714934069

[1714934069]

1714934069

[BADecker]

Sorry, atheists, but saying "it just happened" isn't going to cut it anymore.

Yet, 'god just happened' does cut it?

god did not just happen, god always was.

god predates the universe, god predates time itself.

how is this possible, you say?

Well, the bible does not answer this in detail, all it says is that god existed before anything, and that god has no beginning and no end. However, i developed a theory based on that.

God is not limited by the universal laws, because he created those laws in the first place. The speed of light, the 4 dimensions we see (three spatial dimensions plus time), gravity, etc. All are the works of god, and he existed before any of those laws were written.

Before anything, he created the laws of the universe, including time. After that, he created the universe itself, bound by those laws. During all this, he existed, but not within the limited universe. He is an extra-dimensional being, and he can choose to enter our dimension if he wishes, but we can not enter his dimension. It's a bit like 'flatlanders' (google it if you don't know what i mean by that). To god, we are flatlanders, we just can't even imagine the dimension he lives in, and we refer to it as heaven. Heaven is not bound by the same rules as the visible universe.

So, if god created time, and he obviously had to exist before time existed in order to create time, than we can conclude that god ALWAYS was, because anything that existed BEFORE time and space, existed always and will always exist.

This also makes sense because the universe DID have a beginning (study thermophysics and specifically entropy and you'll come to the conclusion that the universe must have had a beginning, a state of zero entropy, since negative entropy is not possible, it must have had a definite beginning), and there is no space without time and there is no time without space. And what was before time? Nothing, just god.

So, even though it's illogical and a huge leap of faith to claim the universe just spontaneously came into being, it is NOT a leap of faith to believe some powerful extra-dimensional benign being existed even before the universe. In some weird alternate dimension that has COMPLETELY DIFFERENT RULES. This totally makes sense and even though it can not scientifically be proven (unless we invent a trans-dimensional something, and god does not prevent it) it is the most logical answer to the facts we have.

This!

[zimmah]

Here is something interesting. It is also possible what most think is God, was actually ancient aliens. Look up the wiki article on Ancient Astronaut theory and how certain events in the bible could've been weapons of mass destruction from aliens.

even if that were to be true, where did the aliens come from?

where did the universe come from?

We could always be a simulation you know, and what we think we know isnt actually real, but a fabricated universe with fabricated laws.

than what are we a simulation of, for what purpose, and who wrote the program? Who wrote the laws?

Your idea is a pretty good analogy actually.

If we were a simulation inside a program, no doubt someone would have written the code. Would have created the hardware and software for the machine etc. Hours and hours of work would need to be put into it.

Now, why do many people think that real life just suddenly appeared?

Simulation or not, it's still an amazing feat, and everything is too complex and well balanced and it seems like all of this could not exist without a very intelligent designer.

[BADecker]

Here is something interesting. It is also possible what most think is God, was actually ancient aliens. Look up the wiki article on Ancient Astronaut theory and how certain events in the bible could've been weapons of mass destruction from aliens.

even if that were to be true, where did the aliens come from?

where did the universe come from?

We could always be a simulation you know, and what we think we know isnt actually real, but a fabricated universe with fabricated laws.

But sometimes the pain of it or the joy of it makes it seem absolutely real. So what's the dif?

[jackjack]

This is exactly why God wants us to have faith. The universe and nature are full of many wonderful evidences for God. In fact, we are so close to proving that God exists by the evidences, that we are right on top of the proof. Yet, we will never get there. God is too big. We might have revelations from Him. But we won't ever quite get scientific proof. The evidences are there to show us that we don't have to have blind faith. God is making faith easy for us through the multitudes of evidences for His existence.

I wasn't sure
Now I am
You Sir are a troll

If you don't accept the existence of God, you are working for the Devil by default. So that makes YOU one of HIS trolls.

I think you misunderstood
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/troll?s=t

troll2
[trohl]

noun
1. (in Scandinavian folklore) any of a race of supernatural beings, sometimes conceived as giants and sometimes as dwarfs, inhabiting caves or subterranean dwellings.

Good for you.
Still that's not what I meant.

[jbrnt]

If there is such things as a super being, there is no reason why there is only one super being as the creator. Everything we know could be designed and created by a ring of super beings, or even different types of super beings. So, the god(s) we know today could all exist, or none of them existed and we got it all wrong.

[BADecker]

If there is such things as a super being, there is no reason why there is only one super being as the creator. Everything we know could be designed and created by a ring of super beings, or even different types of super beings. So, the god(s) we know today could all exist, or none of them existed and we got it all wrong.

Something similar to this DOES happen, sort of, somewhat, now and again. One example is Moses, in the Old Testament in the Bible. Often when Moses entered into the presence of God, he so humbled himself that he was actually moved into God likeness to some extent. The evidence of this was that, after he left the presence of God, his face was radiant, even though the radiance faded the longer he was away from the presence of God.

However, the major thing against a ring of super beings is because there CAN'T be for the creation of the universe. The universe is such a complicated piece of machinery, that, even if there were a ring of god-like beings, they would have to be acting as ONE to create something like the universe. One God.

[zimmah]

If there is such things as a super being, there is no reason why there is only one super being as the creator. Everything we know could be designed and created by a ring of super beings, or even different types of super beings. So, the god(s) we know today could all exist, or none of them existed and we got it all wrong.

there would be no reason other than that the god mentioned in the bible tells us he is the only one.

but if you do not give any credit to the bible, then sure, there could be a whole bunch of gods. It still makes more sense to believe in multiple gods than to believe in nothing.

[BADecker]

The danger in believing in multiple gods is the thing that caused the nations to fall. The ancient city of Ugarit is an example of how people gradually fell from the One God as Noah worshiped, into many Gods by the time of Abraham. Part of what made Abraham special was that he continued to believe the One God.

[BADecker]

The danger in believing in multiple gods is the thing that caused the nations to fall. The ancient city of Ugarit is an example of how people gradually fell from the One God as Noah worshiped, into many Gods by the time of Abraham. Part of what made Abraham special was that he continued to believe the One God.

The reason that I mention Ugarit is, some of the Bible writings were taken from Ugarit writings. This was done by the Hebrew priests to train the people of Israel back into the One God knowledge, when the people were starting to believe like Ugarit, and the nations around them - that there are more gods than One.

[zimmah]

it was very common to believe in multiple gods, all around the world.

At many places it's still quite common (many native cultures, as well as asian religions), although less common than in previous years.

Monotheism got reintroduced by Abraham IIRC and with the spreading of christianity and judaism, on which most modern religions are based, monotheism got more popular. Especially since religions spread quickly due to the nations that had those religions were highly imperialistic and pretty successful at that.

[jackjack]

The danger in believing in multiple gods is the thing that caused the nations to fall. The ancient city of Ugarit is an example of how people gradually fell from the One God as Noah worshiped, into many Gods by the time of Abraham. Part of what made Abraham special was that he continued to believe the One God.

[BADecker]

The danger in believing in multiple gods is the thing that caused the nations to fall. The ancient city of Ugarit is an example of how people gradually fell from the One God as Noah worshiped, into many Gods by the time of Abraham. Part of what made Abraham special was that he continued to believe the One God.

Now that God has virtually been proven to exist, you are reading part of the next step - some of what God has revealed to us about Himself and what He wants us to do.

[Cortex7]

Here is something interesting. It is also possible what most think is God, was actually ancient aliens. Look up the wiki article on Ancient Astronaut theory and how certain events in the bible could've been weapons of mass destruction from aliens.

even if that were to be true, where did the aliens come from?

where did the universe come from?

We could always be a simulation you know, and what we think we know isnt actually real, but a fabricated universe with fabricated laws.

The simulation hypothesis certainy does imply that it is more like that we exist within a simulation than not.

Basically it goes like this:

[1]
Do you think (extrapolating current technology) that we will ever be able to create realistic VR, say we could learn to jack into our nervous system, or maybe even transfer our conscious mind (scan it) into a machine? The point being do think it is possible to simulate a universe such that the observer/user would never know, the sensory input banwidth needed is not that great even by todays standards.

If you think yes, then proceed to [2], else leave.

[2]
Do you think that if some civilization somewhere ever does reach true VR technology then they will for some reason kill themselves shortly afterward. In other words do you think there is some universal barrier that will dissalow simulation universes from being created/ran. If you think that civilizations will develop them and run them then goto [3], else leave.

[3]
Do you think we "humans of planet 3 of sol" are the most advanced in the universe (technology wise), if not then goto [4], else leave.

[4]
If just 1 simulation was running in the "real" universe then the chance of us living in a simulated one is 0.5 (50/50).

[5]
How many simulations are running out there, take a guess, call it N, the chances of us living in a real universe is 1/N. for all we know simulated universes of the complexity we perceive may be quite common.

Of course the creators of our simulation might themselves be simulants, perhaps in a higher than 3 dimension universe, asking the same questions, it may be simulations all the way down.

[jackjack]

The danger in believing in multiple gods is the thing that caused the nations to fall. The ancient city of Ugarit is an example of how people gradually fell from the One God as Noah worshiped, into many Gods by the time of Abraham. Part of what made Abraham special was that he continued to believe the One God.

Now that God has virtually been proven to exist, you are reading part of the next step - some of what God has revealed to us about Himself and what He wants us to do.

You don't cease to amuse me

I prefer having faith in something I have proofs* of than in some little invisible guy with a beard rotating around the Earth. 
Even if I must suffer until the end of times.


* Proofs backed by scientific rigour. Not some crazy nonsense like "oh lord the universe is huge, it must have a creator!"
Truth has nothing to do with feelings. It's based on hard facts. And not knowing isn't equal to "it's god lol".

[zimmah]

Here is something interesting. It is also possible what most think is God, was actually ancient aliens. Look up the wiki article on Ancient Astronaut theory and how certain events in the bible could've been weapons of mass destruction from aliens.

even if that were to be true, where did the aliens come from?

where did the universe come from?

We could always be a simulation you know, and what we think we know isnt actually real, but a fabricated universe with fabricated laws.

The simulation hypothesis certainy does imply that it is more like that we exist within a simulation than not.

Basically it goes like this:

[1]
Do you think (extrapolating current technology) that we will ever be able to create realistic VR, say we could learn to jack into our nervous system, or maybe even transfer our conscious mind (scan it) into a machine? The point being do think it is possible to simulate a universe such that the observer/user would never know, the sensory input banwidth needed is not that great even by todays standards.

If you think yes, then proceed to [2], else leave.

[2]
Do you think that if some civilization somewhere ever does reach true VR technology then they will for some reason kill themselves shortly afterward. In other words do you think there is some universal barrier that will dissalow simulation universes from being created/ran. If you think that civilizations will develop them and run them then goto [3], else leave.

[3]
Do you think we "humans of planet 3 of sol" are the most advanced in the universe (technology wise), if not then goto [4], else leave.

[4]
If just 1 simulation was running in the "real" universe then the chance of us living in a simulated one is 0.5 (50/50).

[5]
How many simulations are running out there, take a guess, call it N, the chances of us living in a real universe is 1/N. for all we know simulated universes of the complexity we perceive may be quite common.

Of course the creators of our simulation might themselves be simulants, perhaps in a higher than 3 dimension universe, asking the same questions, it may be simulations all the way down.

Nice theory, but you're missing the point.

These simulations must have had makers, makers more advanced than us.

So no matter if the universe is an advanced hologram or other piece of machinery, or an actual universe. Someone or something must have created it. Something that existed before the simulation or the real thing ran. Most likely something outside of our dimensions.

It's very likely that heaven is somewhere outside our 4D world, say heaven is 5D or even higher.

Is it so weird to call the creator of this reality (or simulation) our god? For whoever wrote the 'program' wrote the rules, would that not make him able to bend the rules at will? Performng miracles in our eyes? He can even change the rules permanently.

The universe is like an advanced computer program, we are part of it, god is the programmer, as well as the PC manifcturer. The angels are system admins and the devil and his demons are crackers.

[zimmah]

The danger in believing in multiple gods is the thing that caused the nations to fall. The ancient city of Ugarit is an example of how people gradually fell from the One God as Noah worshiped, into many Gods by the time of Abraham. Part of what made Abraham special was that he continued to believe the One God.

Now that God has virtually been proven to exist, you are reading part of the next step - some of what God has revealed to us about Himself and what He wants us to do.

You don't cease to amuse me

I prefer having faith in something I have proofs* of than in some little invisible guy with a beard rotating around the Earth.  
Even if I must suffer until the end of times.


* Proofs backed by scientific rigour. Not some crazy nonsense like "oh lord the universe is huge, it must have a creator!"
Truth has nothing to do with feelings. It's based on hard facts. And not knowing isn't equal to "it's god lol".

Oh, please enlighten me.

When did abiogenesis become a proven fact? When did scientist observe spontaneous creation of lif from non-life?

The fact that this hs never happened is proof enough.

Either

A) life can be created from non-life (it's an universal law like speed of light and gravity), and we can observe it all around us all the time.

B) life can not be created from non-life, but life only comes from life. (I.e. Living organisms giving birth to living organisms). The origin of life was a one time miracle and for that reason can not be observed.

The  absence of observable evidence points to B).

Show me a single event where life was spontaneously created from non-life.

You claim science disproves god, and that logic dictates there is no god.

But please, show me scientific evidence that even gives so much as a hint that god does not exist. Show me a logical hypothesis or even philosophical thought that shows a logical answer to the absence of god that would be more logical than there being a god.

Don't you realize how ridicous you sound, claiming science supports you, while you don't give a single piece of evidence to back you up?

[Vod]

Something inanimate will never come to life.

You'll watch it on TV within the next 10 years.

Science is going to allow us to do things your gods never could.  7 days to create a world?  
Within the next century, we will be doing it in 7 minutes:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsr-XtuKuSw

[jackjack]

The danger in believing in multiple gods is the thing that caused the nations to fall. The ancient city of Ugarit is an example of how people gradually fell from the One God as Noah worshiped, into many Gods by the time of Abraham. Part of what made Abraham special was that he continued to believe the One God.

Now that God has virtually been proven to exist, you are reading part of the next step - some of what God has revealed to us about Himself and what He wants us to do.

You don't cease to amuse me

I prefer having faith in something I have proofs* of than in some little invisible guy with a beard rotating around the Earth. 
Even if I must suffer until the end of times.


* Proofs backed by scientific rigour. Not some crazy nonsense like "oh lord the universe is huge, it must have a creator!"
Truth has nothing to do with feelings. It's based on hard facts. And not knowing isn't equal to "it's god lol".

Oh, please enlighten me.

When did abiogenesis become a proven fact? When did scientist observe spontaneous creation of lif from non-life?

The fact that this hs never happened is proof enough.

Either

A) life can be created from non-life (it's an universal law like speed of light and gravity), and we can observe it all around us all the time.

B) life can not be created from non-life, but life only comes from life. (I.e. Living organisms giving birth to living organisms). The origin of life was a one time miracle and for that reason can not be observed.

The  absence of observable evidence points to B).

Show me a single event where life was spontaneously created from non-life.

You claim science disproves god, and that logic dictates there is no god.

But please, show me scientific evidence that even gives so much as a hint that god does not exist. Show me a logical hypothesis or even philosophical thought that shows a logical answer to the absence of god that would be more logical than there being a god.

Don't you realize how ridicous you sound, claiming science supports you, while you don't give a single piece of evidence to back you up?

You miss the whole point of science: when we don't know how something happens, we say so. That's the point of proofs.
When we didn't know what composed atoms, we didn't say this was god's place, we just said that we didn't know. And eventually, we found out.

Same goes for the apparition of life. We don't know, no need to think our granpa is floating around and made that.

PS: "evidence points to B)"
LMFAO

PPS:

Something inanimate will never come to life.

Oh. Where are your proofs?

PPPS: "You claim science disproves god, and that logic dictates there is no god."
Damn, I didn't realized it's Troll O'clock
I just never said so

[zimmah]

The danger in believing in multiple gods is the thing that caused the nations to fall. The ancient city of Ugarit is an example of how people gradually fell from the One God as Noah worshiped, into many Gods by the time of Abraham. Part of what made Abraham special was that he continued to believe the One God.

Now that God has virtually been proven to exist, you are reading part of the next step - some of what God has revealed to us about Himself and what He wants us to do.

You don't cease to amuse me

I prefer having faith in something I have proofs* of than in some little invisible guy with a beard rotating around the Earth.  
Even if I must suffer until the end of times.


* Proofs backed by scientific rigour. Not some crazy nonsense like "oh lord the universe is huge, it must have a creator!"
Truth has nothing to do with feelings. It's based on hard facts. And not knowing isn't equal to "it's god lol".

Oh, please enlighten me.

When did abiogenesis become a proven fact? When did scientist observe spontaneous creation of lif from non-life?

The fact that this hs never happened is proof enough.

Either

A) life can be created from non-life (it's an universal law like speed of light and gravity), and we can observe it all around us all the time.

B) life can not be created from non-life, but life only comes from life. (I.e. Living organisms giving birth to living organisms). The origin of life was a one time miracle and for that reason can not be observed.

The  absence of observable evidence points to B).

Show me a single event where life was spontaneously created from non-life.

You miss the whole point of science: when we don't know how something happens, we say so. That's the point of proofs.
When we didn't know what composed atoms, we didn't say this was god's place, we just said that we didn't know. And eventually, we found out.

Same goes for the apparition of life. We don't know, no need to think our granpa is floating around and made that.

PS: "evidence points to B)"
LMFAO

Wait what?

You say science points to there being no god, I show you otherwise, and you suddenly say science does not speak about what it doesn't know.

Who's sticking their head in the sand now?

It's easy to win arguments from religious fanatics who just copy with ever their priests tell them, but this is probably the first time you argue with a sensible theist who can think for himself. How does it feel to get your ass handed to you by a theist who actually has his shit togheter?

Please do some research and come back here when your arguments make sense. I don't have time to waste on trolls.