Scientific proof that God exists?

[Rassah]

The brain uses bio-electricity when people think. Although there are probably many other things that are not material, or scientifically measurable, or electronic, in a human being's thinking and identity, the vibration of the being, the soul, that makes everyone different from everyone else, is that person's vibration of existence.

One, bioelectric signals in the brain are not vibrations. They are noise, with massive numbers of synapses turning on and of at different times and completely different intervals. It's about as much a "vibration" as a popular YouTube video being sent to a bunch of computers from a server. If you ever used a dialup modem (or listened to dubstep), you'd know electronic data is complete noise, not a vibration.

And two, basically the same thing happens in a computer network, and to some extent your computer's and phone's CPUs. Does that mean they have vibrations and "vibrations of existence" too?

[Rassah]

Rassah,  you know you have a soft spot in my heart for whatever reason. 

Likewise. You're too nice! Though I feel a bit sad suspecting that maybe the only reason you have a soft spot for me is because you think I am a horribly wretched sinner and you hope to save me 

You seem to think teaching the hypothesis of creation in schools would be a negative thing. 

Actually I just think it would be a pointless thing. There is no evidence to support that hypothesis, no tests for kids to do in class, and no history of discoveries related to it to read about. The entire creation topic can just be covered in a single sentence: "some people believe things in nature are so complex that they think only god or an intelligent designer could have created them, and possibly the end of the world." End of chapter, end of lesson, end of day, see you tomorrow kids. Compared to the history of biologists who discovered various species and how they are related, the fossil records of animals and plans showing how similar they looked and how they seem to morph from one to the next in their appearance, the tons of vestigial organs in animals suggesting they lived in different environments before, and the DNA similarities in species, creation would seem like a passing thought, like "I think my house has trolls, because my socks sometimes disappear."

It seems that you really would prefer that the world would think like you do

Absolutely not! Keep in mind, though, that "God" and "No God" are not the only alternatives. Just on the "No God" side there are tons of conflicting theories and hypotheses about how the world works. Plenty to discuss and debate, even from real world evidence.

With that in mind, do you really think it is better if the world got to the point where it was completely "Godless?"  A world that was free from any religion whatsoever?  Where everyone had come to the agreement that there is no God so therefore He should not be talked about or discussed

I don't know. Maybe? We still talk about and discuss Egyptian gods. Mainly from the cool historical context. And we still talk about and discuss historical beliefs about bad vapors and bad blood from an old historical perspective, though it's great that we don't believe in those things any more, and don't bleed people to help them when they get sick. Not believing in made up stories, myths, and lies is generally a good thing, as it keeps you from doing stupid things (like wasting hours every week talking to yourself, or giving money to someone who is very likely just swindling you, or wasting days of your life worried about what some men may be doing with each other). On the other hand, getting beliefs and stupidly following them despite others telling you they are stupid is very necessary, because that's how we explore, invent, and discover new things. Almost everyone didn't believe Satoshi's idea would work. But there is still a difference between believing what may be possible and achievable, and believing what is.

or taught to children? 

God is not taught to most children. I don't mind god being taught to children (which is what I had, where I was given literature on gods, history, Greek myths, bible, and books about other gods). What happens instead is that god is forced on children. They are told that this is how god is, and this is the truth, and they better believe all this, or else they will be sent to hell, where... and at this point the "teacher" usually goes into gory details explaining horrific brutalities to literally scare the kids into believing or else. I think the way god is taught to children is literal child abuse.

It seems to me that many atheists are convinced that this would become a utopia and a perfect world. 

Not at all. Again, it's not a duality, where if it's not A it MUST be B. A godless world will not be a utopia or perfect. Hitler's Germany was an example of a religious world gone horribly wrong, and at the exact same time Stalin's Russia was an example of a godless world gone horribly wrong. This only goes to show that the presence or lack of god doesn't determine how good or ethical something is. It may make the world a bit better though, in the same way that us understanding that the bible should not be taken 100% literally has improved our world since the Dark Ages and made it better. Frankly, replacing any beliefs with actual knowledge makes things better.

My fear is if this is indeed your hearts desire

Why is it heartless? I truly believe that it will make the world better, will make people smarter, will stop wasting so much of humanity's time and resources, and will stop many conflicts and wars over who's god is right. Am I heartless for wanting a better, more just, and more peaceful world?

God does promise a day when that will happen and His Spirit will be removed from the earth.

Why would god want that? Or is he powerless to stop that?

If evil is present now, with death, hate, abuse, sickness and so on, it will only be much much worse then. 

Note that much of the hate in the world stems from what people think their god commands them. Hate homosexuals because the bible condemns it. Hate the Jews because Allah commands them. Hate the Muslims and atheists because they are heathens. I would think without god at least half of the hate in the world would have no reason to exist. Also note that things like death and sickness are greatly improved upon every year, with no reliance on god. Lives are prolonged and illnesses cured with science, not with prayer. Imagine if all the time spent in churches and money given to corrupt priests could be used to help cure diseases. Why do you think death and sickness will suddenly start getting worse?

If God is love, and He is no longer present here, love will be gone.  A world without love would not be the world I want to be in.

But if god is not love, and love is love, and love and compassion is something humans do, then love will not be gone. A world without love is easily remedied: just start to love and show compassion.

[BitChick]

Rassah,  you must have missed me with that long reply!  

As for your comment about my thinking you are "horribly wretched sinner"  if I was pointing a finger at you, I would just be pointing four back at myself!    Everyone in the world are "sinners" so that evens out the playing field there, doesn't it?  For all I know, I might even have a more evil mind than you that God's Spirit is working tirelessly on.  You seem to have a very compassionate heart from the things I have read, but also a righteous anger at the many injustices you have seen.  Your anger is justified, however, I think that righteous anger is misguided.  Perhaps the true enemy is not God but Satan?  As for my own sinfulness, the more I pray, read and really understand what sin is, the more I see I have so much more that needs to change in my heart.  It is a lifelong journey really.  But one that I am not doing alone.  I am like a tree being pruned constantly.  All the crap (hate, jealousy, anger, lust, greed etc. . . ) is being cut off of me when I allow God's Spirit to work, and in allowing that I can be more compassionate and see things like God does. But would I like you to be saved?  I would be lying if I said "no."  How could I not?  I pray someday we will be eternal friends! But I guess the "soft spot" is generally because I enjoy your honest candor, your intelligent mind and your willingness to even have discussions with me even though we have such different world views.    

It would take a while to comment on each thing.  I appreciate your responses to each one though!  

First, I apologize for not giving you as much credit as I should have.  You have always been amazingly open to discussions and even willing to hear other people's point of view so for me to say that you might prefer a world in which everyone thinks like you do was obviously not true.  It really says a lot about you.  Many are not so open minded.  That doesn't mean that you agree with other view points of course.

I do agree, in someways, that children should make up their own minds about God.  In reality, we all have to don't we?  The church I grew up in would not even baptize children because they needed to make up their own minds about it.  It needed to be their own personal decision and not one that was forced upon them. That said, I feel that we have gone the other direction in many cases and now many children do not even get the basic understanding of any religion at all.  The Bible is a very valuable book, as well as other religious books, in understanding history and how the world thinks.  Now, in many cases, it isn't discussed at all.  It makes it harder for kids to even understand literature and world history because of that.  

Of course, as a Christian, I believe that there are huge moral implications to not studying God's law.  We are moving more towards a lawless society because of it and with that will come more negative consequences than good ones.  

Which leads to the idea of a Godless world.  A world without God's Spirit would not be a good one.  The fruit of God's Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, kindness, goodness and self-control.  These are fruit that are supposed to be evident in a true Christian's life.  (This is the measure I use to really test to see if someone else is really a Christian or not BTW.  If these fruit are not evident then chances are that they are either not really a Christian or not a very mature one.) Also, the way some supposed Christians are hateful towards others because of their lifestyle choices is wrong, and again, you are justified in your feelings about this but it is just Satan making a so called "Christian" be prideful and judgmental. But that said, the kind of world I want to live in is one that is filled with God's Spirit.  Unfortunately, the world is not moving in this direction.   Like is says in Timothy 3: " There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. . . always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth."  At some point God will say "enough" and then He has warned He will remove His followers from earth (what is commonly referred to as the rapture) and then the world will get to really see what it is like without Him here.  It is not going to be a pleasant time.  

[username18333]

What matter is coming to dead?

Dead is has two parts.
1. death of body.
2. Death of soul.

Death of body may mean little. It may mean to simply stop working/living in this life.

Death of soul means, in part, cessation of all vibration of existence. This will take an eternity, because that is how long the soul will exist. This death is continual dying.

In God's realm, this will have an ending, a finishing, because God's realm exists with eternity and beyond eternity as well. But in the realms in which man exists, there will be no ending of this death. We cannot understand it from God's point of view, because we are not God, Himself. We will only feel it and experience it from man's point of view, because we are people.

God has worked to save people from the death, both of body, and of soul. That is what the story of Jesus is all about. Accept Jesus, be resurrected to eternal life with God, not eternal death away from God.

Much of this is beyond our clear understanding in this life. But it will happen to all of us something like this. Perhaps we will have a clearer understanding in the resurrection. But then it will be too late to change.

This does not explain how no longer being alive is significant (that significance being the subject of the question you quoted).

Insofar as I have seen, christian gods are ultimately pursued for the sake of continuing to exist in manners that may reasonably be termed "living." However, it seems one pursues these extensions out of an innate fear of ceasing to exist not reasoned determinations as to what ought transpire about oneself.

(Indeed, even your elucidation of death - being largely divorced from observation [and that little evidence you have, consisting of confirmation bias] - would seem hailed of that fear.)

[Rassah]

Rassah,  you must have missed me with that long reply!  

As for your comment about my thinking you are "horribly wretched sinner"  if I was pointing a finger at you, I would just be pointing four back at myself!    Everyone in the world are "sinners"

Except nazis, who are pointing all five fingers at you  

But seriously, saying "everyone is a sinner" makes it sound like all sin is equally bad. Obviously a white lie or a surprise party is not as bad of a sin as murdering someone.

Your anger is justified, however, I think that righteous anger is misguided.  Perhaps the true enemy is not God but Satan?

My anger is not at god or satan (since I don't believe in either of them) but at god's followers. I haven't seen followers of satan doing pretty much any evil recently (ever?).

As for my own sinfulness, the more I pray, read and really understand what sin is, the more I see I have so much more that needs to change in my heart.

What do you mean what sin "really" is? Harm and injustice is a fairly basic concept. I am not not sure hot it can be more twisted by religion.

I pray someday we will be eternal friends!

Well, I am working towards that goal by eating healthy, taking vitamins, monitoring my health, and saving up as much money as I could to make sure I can prolong my life (biologically or technically) whenever the opportunity arises. Sadly, I suspect the only thing you are doing is wishing  

The Bible is a very valuable book, as well as other religious books, in understanding history and how the world thinks.  Now, in many cases, it isn't discussed at all.  It makes it harder for kids to even understand literature and world history because of that.

I sort of agree. Christians have been very forceful at pushing their religion, and the overreaction completely kicked that topic out of educational discussion, when it would have been much better if bible stories were still included in history classes as part of our human history, along with all the other historical records of that time, including ones that may or may not contradict biblical records. On the other hand, historical books and bible have very different connotations, the former being "this is what we believe happened based on this evidence," and the later being "this is the truth, and since all this history is true, everything else it lists must be true too." It would at the least be VERY tempting for christian history teachers to imply as such.

Of course, as a Christian, I believe that there are huge moral implications to not studying God's law.  We are moving more towards a lawless society because of it and with that will come more negative consequences than good ones.

I think god's law is actually a major handicap to a good law based society. It teaches us that law MUST be established by authority, and must not be questioned. Even if you feel that the law may not be ethical. Especially since in many ways god himself is not ethical. I think it would be much better if we switched to understanding laws and ethics as being built from such axiomatic principles as the Non Agression Principle, respect for people's property and life, and understanding that your actions can and should have consequences imposed on you by those you may harm. That is way more effective than "Don't to this thing, because I said so, or else you'll be sent into this possibly imaginary place that I can't even prove exists." Concrete explanations of reasons and consequences are way better at governing human behavior than empty threats.

Which leads to the idea of a Godless world.  A world without God's Spirit would not be a good one.  The fruit of God's Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, kindness, goodness and self-control.

Can you explain why this "fruit" is dependent on god? What god mechanism causes people to experience love, joy, peace, etc, and why would it be gone if those people didn't know about god? Doesn't this also imply that all of India, China, and Japan, which are mostly not christian, don't have love, joy, peace, etc? (despite them obviously having all of those)

(This is the measure I use to really test to see if someone else is really a Christian or not BTW.  If these fruit are not evident then chances are that they are either not really a Christian or not a very mature one.)

Which, again, would make a Hindu, a Budha, a Shinto, or an Atheist "really a Christian" in your test, making it a faulty test.

Unfortunately, the world is not moving in this direction.   Like is says in Timothy 3: " There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. . . always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth."

Well that's good to hear, because that means we're nowhere near the last days. Most of those problems you mentioned are actually decreasing, not increasing. Most of the bigger world problems have recently been from ultra-nationalism and religious extremism (people believing in god TOO much), not from those things on the list. Except, what the heck does "always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth" mean? And doesn't the alternative imply "figuring out the truth, and stopping learning," which is the biggest problem of the "god did it" nonanswer?

At some point God will say "enough" and then He has warned He will remove His followers from earth (what is commonly referred to as the rapture) and then the world will get to really see what it is like without Him here.  It is not going to be a pleasant time.  

So it will be like China or Japan? Sorry if I'm not being very nice. It's just that there are tons of places without belief in god, and your concerns about such an existence are a bit perplexing.

[BitChick]

@Rassah, I guess we are back to our fun debates now.  

Do I think every sin is equally bad?  Actually I do.  I know that sounds totally crazy but in God's eyes a sin is a sin and any sin however "small" in our eyes, is enough to separate us from Him.  Does that mean that the consequences for all sins are the same?  No.  This is where we, as humans, start grading them on a scale.  Some sins do way more damage to ourselves and others, so in that way it seems that some sins are much worse.  But in the big picture, all sin is what keeps us apart from God.  This is why a person who was a super amazing good person and did everything right their entire lives still cannot earn their way to heaven-  All have sinned and everyone needs forgiveness for that sin.

You haven't seen followers of Satan doing evil?  Basically it is pretty simple.  There is good and evil.  God is good, He is love.  If we are not for God, we are against God.  Therefore, anything that is not for God is not good and therefore evil. All rapists, murderers, child abusers, lairs, thieves and so on are serving Satan when they make evil choices and decide to do these sinful choices.  So anyone doing evil is serving Satan.  On the flip side, are there people out there doing "good" and "loving" without knowing they are in reality unknowingly doing what God wants?  Yes.  And many of these same people also end up having very blessed lives because of that!  God wants to give us all good gifts.  Every good and perfect gift in our lives comes from Him, even if we don't realize it.  Instead of thanking Him for it, many of us just ignore Him, are angry at Him, or even deny He is the one giving us all the blessings we have.  

I believe the Spirit of God is present all around us.  This is why throughout the world there are people that have a conscience and realize that some things are just wrong.   There is a universal belief among most cultures that murder, abuse, adultery, stealing and lying is not a good thing to do and It doesn't matter what nationality, race or religion you are.  You can see my other lengthy post about my not so common belief on heaven, hell and Sheol and how God looks at the heart.  If a person truly wants to do what is right in their hearts God is fair and just and will give that person a chance to accept or reject Him I believe.  

[username18333]

Rassah,  you must have missed me with that long reply!  

As for your comment about my thinking you are "horribly wretched sinner"  if I was pointing a finger at you, I would just be pointing four back at myself!    Everyone in the world are "sinners"

Except nazis, who are pointing all five fingers at you  

But seriously, saying "everyone is a sinner" makes it sound like all sin is equally bad. Obviously a white lie or a surprise party is not as bad of a sin as murdering someone.

...

Christian gods' objections are of infinite magnitude (for their absolute "goodness"); therefore, all "sins" (processions outside their will) are infinitely offensive to them.

[username18333]

@Rassah, I guess we are back to our fun debates now.  

Do I think every sin is equally bad?  Actually I do.  I know that sounds totally crazy but in God's eyes a sin is a sin and any sin however "small" in our eyes, is enough to separate us from Him.  Does that mean that the consequences for all sins are the same?  No.  This is where we, as humans, start grading them on a scale.  Some sins do way more damage to ourselves and others, so in that way it seems that some sins are much worse.  But in the big picture, all sin is what keeps us apart from God.  This is why a person who was a super amazing good person and did everything right their entire lives still cannot earn their way to heaven-  All have sinned and everyone needs forgiveness for that sin.

You haven't seen followers of Satan doing evil?  Basically it is pretty simple.  There is good and evil.  God is good, He is love.  If we are not for God, we are against God.  Therefore, anything that is not for God is not good and therefore evil. All rapists, murderers, child abusers, lairs, thieves and so on are serving Satan when they make evil choices and decide to do these sinful choices.  So anyone doing evil is serving Satan.  On the flip side, are there people out there doing "good" and "loving" without knowing they are in reality unknowingly doing what God wants?  Yes.  And many of these same people also end up having very blessed lives because of that!  God wants to give us all good gifts.  Every good and perfect gift in our lives comes from Him, even if we don't realize it.  Instead of thanking Him for it, many of us just ignore Him, are angry at Him, or even deny He is the one giving us all the blessings we have.  

I believe the Spirit of God is present all around us.  This is why throughout the world there are people that have a conscience and realize that some things are just wrong.   There is a universal belief among most cultures that murder, abuse, adultery, stealing and lying is not a good thing to do and It doesn't matter what nationality, race or religion you are.  You can see my other lengthy post about my not so common belief on heaven, hell and Sheol and how God looks at the heart.  If a person truly wants to do what is right in their hearts God is fair and just and will give that person a chance to accept or reject Him I believe.  

There is neither good nor evil but merely that entropy one has accepted.

[manobra]

Just once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is an attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which suggest that God exists.

But first consider this. When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider...

1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:

The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

existence of GodThe Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.4

Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

proof of GodWater is a universal solvent. This property of water means that various chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.5

Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.

Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.

Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.6

The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

existence of GodThe human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.

The eye...can distinguish among seven million colors. It has automatic focusing and handles an astounding 1.5 million messages -- simultaneously.8 Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution alone does not fully explain the initial source of the eye or the brain -- the start of living organisms from nonliving matter.

2. Does God exist? The universe had a start - what caused it?

Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself.

Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, "The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion...The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen."9

Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, "the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade...and the universe was filled with light."10

The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.

3. Does God exist? The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?

Much of life may seem uncertain, but look at what we can count on day after day: gravity remains consistent, a hot cup of coffee left on a counter will get cold, the earth rotates in the same 24 hours, and the speed of light doesn't change -- on earth or in galaxies far from us.

How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable?

"The greatest scientists have been struck by how strange this is. There is no logical necessity for a universe that obeys rules, let alone one that abides by the rules of mathematics. This astonishment springs from the recognition that the universe doesn't have to behave this way. It is easy to imagine a universe in which conditions change unpredictably from instant to instant, or even a universe in which things pop in and out of existence."11

Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle."12

4. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.

existence of GodAll instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billion of these letters in every human cell!!

Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.13

existence of GodWhy is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.

Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.

5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.

I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.

proof of GodI didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.

I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."

Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.

6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us.

Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.

He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."14 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."15

What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people...blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects...created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing.16

Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us. Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of his punishment, his love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God himself took on the form of man and accepted the punishment for our sin on our behalf. Sounds ludicrous? Perhaps, but many loving fathers would gladly trade places with their child in a cancer ward if they could. The Bible says that the reason we would love God is because he first loved us.

Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with him. Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to himself. Because of Jesus' death and resurrection, he offers us a new life today. We can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. He says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."17 This is God, in action.

Does God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We're told that "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."18

God does not force us to believe in him, though he could. Instead, he has provided sufficient proof of his existence for us to willingly respond to him. The earth's perfect distance from the sun, the unique chemical properties of water, the human brain, DNA, the number of people who attest to knowing God, the gnawing in our hearts and minds to determine if God is there, the willingness for God to be known through Jesus Christ. If you need to know more about Jesus and reasons to believe in him, please see: Beyond Blind Faith.

If you want to begin a relationship with God now, you can.

This is your decision, no coercion here. But if you want to be forgiven by God and come into a relationship with him, you can do so right now by asking him to forgive you and come into your life. Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door [of your heart] and knock. He who hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him [or her]."19 If you want to do this, but aren't sure how to put it into words, this may help: "Jesus, thank you for dying for my sins. You know my life and that I need to be forgiven. I ask you to forgive me right now and come into my life. I want to know you in a real way. Come into my life now. Thank you that you wanted a relationship with me. Amen."

God views your relationship with him as permanent. Referring to all those who believe in him, Jesus Christ said of us, "I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand."20

Looking at all these facts, one can conclude that a loving God does exist and can be known in an intimate, personal way.

[username18333]

Just once wouldn't you love for someone to simply show you the evidence for God's existence? No arm-twisting. No statements of, "You just have to believe." Well, here is an attempt to candidly offer some of the reasons which suggest that God exists.

But first consider this. When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.1 On the other hand, for those who want to know God if he is there, he says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know him? Here then, are some reasons to consider...

1. Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.

Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:

The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface. If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury. If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.3 Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.

existence of GodThe Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees. If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up. Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph. It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.

And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet our massive oceans are restrained from spilling over across the continents.4

Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.

proof of GodWater is a universal solvent. This property of water means that various chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.5

Water is also chemically neutral. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body.

Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.

Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.

Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe. Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.6

The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

existence of GodThe human brain processes more than a million messages a second.7 Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. The brain functions differently than other organs. There is an intelligence to it, the ability to reason, to produce feelings, to dream and plan, to take action, and relate to other people.

The eye...can distinguish among seven million colors. It has automatic focusing and handles an astounding 1.5 million messages -- simultaneously.8 Evolution focuses on mutations and changes from and within existing organisms. Yet evolution alone does not fully explain the initial source of the eye or the brain -- the start of living organisms from nonliving matter.

2. Does God exist? The universe had a start - what caused it?

Scientists are convinced that our universe began with one enormous explosion of energy and light, which we now call the Big Bang. This was the singular start to everything that exists: the beginning of the universe, the start of space, and even the initial start of time itself.

Astrophysicist Robert Jastrow, a self-described agnostic, stated, "The seed of everything that has happened in the Universe was planted in that first instant; every star, every planet and every living creature in the Universe came into being as a result of events that were set in motion in the moment of the cosmic explosion...The Universe flashed into being, and we cannot find out what caused that to happen."9

Steven Weinberg, a Nobel laureate in Physics, said at the moment of this explosion, "the universe was about a hundred thousands million degrees Centigrade...and the universe was filled with light."10

The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.

3. Does God exist? The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?

Much of life may seem uncertain, but look at what we can count on day after day: gravity remains consistent, a hot cup of coffee left on a counter will get cold, the earth rotates in the same 24 hours, and the speed of light doesn't change -- on earth or in galaxies far from us.

How is it that we can identify laws of nature that never change? Why is the universe so orderly, so reliable?

"The greatest scientists have been struck by how strange this is. There is no logical necessity for a universe that obeys rules, let alone one that abides by the rules of mathematics. This astonishment springs from the recognition that the universe doesn't have to behave this way. It is easy to imagine a universe in which conditions change unpredictably from instant to instant, or even a universe in which things pop in and out of existence."11

Richard Feynman, a Nobel Prize winner for quantum electrodynamics, said, "Why nature is mathematical is a mystery...The fact that there are rules at all is a kind of miracle."12

4. Does God exist? The DNA code informs, programs a cell's behavior.

existence of GodAll instruction, all teaching, all training comes with intent. Someone who writes an instruction manual does so with purpose. Did you know that in every cell of our bodies there exists a very detailed instruction code, much like a miniature computer program? As you may know, a computer program is made up of ones and zeros, like this: 110010101011000. The way they are arranged tell the computer program what to do. The DNA code in each of our cells is very similar. It's made up of four chemicals that scientists abbreviate as A, T, G, and C. These are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. There are three billion of these letters in every human cell!!

Well, just like you can program your phone to beep for specific reasons, DNA instructs the cell. DNA is a three-billion-lettered program telling the cell to act in a certain way. It is a full instruction manual.13

existence of GodWhy is this so amazing? One has to ask....how did this information program wind up in each human cell? These are not just chemicals. These are chemicals that instruct, that code in a very detailed way exactly how the person's body should develop.

Natural, biological causes are completely lacking as an explanation when programmed information is involved. You cannot find instruction, precise information like this, without someone intentionally constructing it.

5. Does God exist? We know God exists because he pursues us. He is constantly initiating and seeking for us to come to him.

I was an atheist at one time. And like many atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothered me greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don't believe even exists?! What causes us to do that? When I was an atheist, I attributed my intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people...to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded. To be honest, I also had another motive. As I challenged those who believed in God, I was deeply curious to see if they could convince me otherwise. Part of my quest was to become free from the question of God. If I could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and I would be free to go about my life.

proof of GodI didn't realize that the reason the topic of God weighed so heavily on my mind, was because God was pressing the issue. I have come to find out that God wants to be known. He created us with the intention that we would know him. He has surrounded us with evidence of himself and he keeps the question of his existence squarely before us. It was as if I couldn't escape thinking about the possibility of God. In fact, the day I chose to acknowledge God's existence, my prayer began with, "Ok, you win..." It might be that the underlying reason atheists are bothered by people believing in God is because God is actively pursuing them.

I am not the only one who has experienced this. Malcolm Muggeridge, socialist and philosophical author, wrote, "I had a notion that somehow, besides questing, I was being pursued." C.S. Lewis said he remembered, "...night after night, feeling whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England."

Lewis went on to write a book titled, "Surprised by Joy" as a result of knowing God. I too had no expectations other than rightfully admitting God's existence. Yet over the following several months, I became amazed by his love for me.

6. Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God revealing himself to us.

Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets. None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at him. Though he talked about his Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind. Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in him, believed in the Father.

He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."14 He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth." He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."15

What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people...blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects...created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people. He performed miracles over nature...walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends. People everywhere followed Jesus, because he constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing.16

Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us. Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of his punishment, his love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God himself took on the form of man and accepted the punishment for our sin on our behalf. Sounds ludicrous? Perhaps, but many loving fathers would gladly trade places with their child in a cancer ward if they could. The Bible says that the reason we would love God is because he first loved us.

Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with him. Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to himself. Because of Jesus' death and resurrection, he offers us a new life today. We can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. He says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you."17 This is God, in action.

Does God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We're told that "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life."18

God does not force us to believe in him, though he could. Instead, he has provided sufficient proof of his existence for us to willingly respond to him. The earth's perfect distance from the sun, the unique chemical properties of water, the human brain, DNA, the number of people who attest to knowing God, the gnawing in our hearts and minds to determine if God is there, the willingness for God to be known through Jesus Christ. If you need to know more about Jesus and reasons to believe in him, please see: Beyond Blind Faith.

If you want to begin a relationship with God now, you can.

This is your decision, no coercion here. But if you want to be forgiven by God and come into a relationship with him, you can do so right now by asking him to forgive you and come into your life. Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door [of your heart] and knock. He who hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him [or her]."19 If you want to do this, but aren't sure how to put it into words, this may help: "Jesus, thank you for dying for my sins. You know my life and that I need to be forgiven. I ask you to forgive me right now and come into my life. I want to know you in a real way. Come into my life now. Thank you that you wanted a relationship with me. Amen."

God views your relationship with him as permanent. Referring to all those who believe in him, Jesus Christ said of us, "I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand."20

Looking at all these facts, one can conclude that a loving God does exist and can be known in an intimate, personal way.

1. Entropy
2. Fundamental tendency
3. Fundamental tendency
4. Entropy
5. Entropy
6. Entropy

Entropism (Limakasidian tradition): "For an absolute tendency to become less orderly, the sum of existence is absolute entropy."

[BADecker]

1. Entropy
2. Fundamental tendency
3. Fundamental tendency
4. Entropy
5. Entropy
6. Entropy

Entropism (Limakasidian tradition): "For an absolute tendency to become less orderly, the sum of existence is absolute entropy."

Yes.

We see two things. We see entropy. Entropy suggests that everything will finally neutralize to the point of something that we can't understand... a balance where everything equals everything else... a point of absolutely no complexity.

We also see complexity that is great. So far, this complexity is far beyond man's understanding. But, we are trying to find out enough about it so that, maybe we can understand.

We see nothing that could produce the complexity that we see all over the place. Whatever could produce this complexity - since the complexity is machine-like - must be a powerful Maker. If Fundamental Tendency is the Machine-Maker of all this complexity, then Fundamental Tendency is God.

We don't understand much about the machine of nature. Much has already been lost to entropy. We might never be able to envision what it was like before the losses already gone to entropy. So how are we ever going to understand Fundamental Tendency God, or whatever God really is? Only one way. We need to look to see if God has revealed Himself to us.

[username18333]

1. Entropy
2. Fundamental tendency
3. Fundamental tendency
4. Entropy
5. Entropy
6. Entropy

Entropism (Limakasidian tradition): "For an absolute tendency to become less orderly, the sum of existence is absolute entropy."

Yes.

We see two things. We see entropy. Entropy suggests that everything will finally neutralize to the point of something that we can't understand... a balance where everything equals everything else... a point of absolutely no complexity.

We also see complexity that is great. So far, this complexity is far beyond man's understanding. But, we are trying to find out enough about it so that, maybe we can understand.

We see nothing that could produce the complexity that we see all over the place. Whatever could produce this complexity - since the complexity is machine-like - must be a powerful Maker. If Fundamental Tendency is the Machine-Maker of all this complexity, then Fundamental Tendency is God.

We don't understand much about the machine of nature. Much has already been lost to entropy. We might never be able to envision what it was like before the losses already gone to entropy. So how are we ever going to understand Fundamental Tendency God, or whatever God really is? Only one way. We need to look to see if God has revealed Himself to us.

The more directly relevant assertion there is that what we observe is a portion of existence that is turned inward on its origin to so great a degree that it is rationally intelligible.

(Id est, christian gods, here, are not said to be so mighty that they can craft objects beyond their own might; however, such beings, by the aforementioned tendency, would indeed exist [as would the whole of paradox].)

[BADecker]

1. Entropy
2. Fundamental tendency
3. Fundamental tendency
4. Entropy
5. Entropy
6. Entropy

Entropism (Limakasidian tradition): "For an absolute tendency to become less orderly, the sum of existence is absolute entropy."

Yes.

We see two things. We see entropy. Entropy suggests that everything will finally neutralize to the point of something that we can't understand... a balance where everything equals everything else... a point of absolutely no complexity.

We also see complexity that is great. So far, this complexity is far beyond man's understanding. But, we are trying to find out enough about it so that, maybe we can understand.

We see nothing that could produce the complexity that we see all over the place. Whatever could produce this complexity - since the complexity is machine-like - must be a powerful Maker. If Fundamental Tendency is the Machine-Maker of all this complexity, then Fundamental Tendency is God.

We don't understand much about the machine of nature. Much has already been lost to entropy. We might never be able to envision what it was like before the losses already gone to entropy. So how are we ever going to understand Fundamental Tendency God, or whatever God really is? Only one way. We need to look to see if God has revealed Himself to us.

The more directly relevant assertion there is that what we observe is a portion of existence that is turned inward on its origin to so great a degree that it is rationally intelligible.

(Id est, christian gods, here, are not said to be so mighty that they can craft objects beyond their own might; however, such beings, by the aforementioned tendency, would indeed exist [as would the whole of paradox].)

That's the point. There aren't any Christian gods. There is only one God. And that one God is the God that true Christians espouse. Of course, we could get into what is a true Christian, since the term "Christian" has come to mean many different things. For my purposes, I define "Christian" as one who believes in the Christ of the New Testament in the Bible, as He is talked about in the N.T., even though neither I nor anyone else understands everything about Him.

[username18333]

1. Entropy
2. Fundamental tendency
3. Fundamental tendency
4. Entropy
5. Entropy
6. Entropy

Entropism (Limakasidian tradition): "For an absolute tendency to become less orderly, the sum of existence is absolute entropy."

Yes.

We see two things. We see entropy. Entropy suggests that everything will finally neutralize to the point of something that we can't understand... a balance where everything equals everything else... a point of absolutely no complexity.

We also see complexity that is great. So far, this complexity is far beyond man's understanding. But, we are trying to find out enough about it so that, maybe we can understand.

We see nothing that could produce the complexity that we see all over the place. Whatever could produce this complexity - since the complexity is machine-like - must be a powerful Maker. If Fundamental Tendency is the Machine-Maker of all this complexity, then Fundamental Tendency is God.

We don't understand much about the machine of nature. Much has already been lost to entropy. We might never be able to envision what it was like before the losses already gone to entropy. So how are we ever going to understand Fundamental Tendency God, or whatever God really is? Only one way. We need to look to see if God has revealed Himself to us.

The more directly relevant assertion there is that what we observe is a portion of existence that is turned inward on its origin to so great a degree that it is rationally intelligible.

(Id est, christian gods, here, are not said to be so mighty that they can craft objects beyond their own might; however, such beings, by the aforementioned tendency, would indeed exist [as would the whole of paradox].)

That's the point. There aren't any Christian gods. There is only one God. And that one God is the God that true Christians espouse. Of course, we could get into what is a true Christian, since the term "Christian" has come to mean many different things. For my purposes, I define "Christian" as one who believes in the Christ of the New Testament in the Bible, as He is talked about in the N.T., even though neither I nor anyone else understands everything about Him.

There is one "God" for every christian, hence, "...christian gods..."

(As well, convention dictates that a christian is one who professes the Apostle's Creed.)

[BADecker]

1. Entropy
2. Fundamental tendency
3. Fundamental tendency
4. Entropy
5. Entropy
6. Entropy

Entropism (Limakasidian tradition): "For an absolute tendency to become less orderly, the sum of existence is absolute entropy."

Yes.

We see two things. We see entropy. Entropy suggests that everything will finally neutralize to the point of something that we can't understand... a balance where everything equals everything else... a point of absolutely no complexity.

We also see complexity that is great. So far, this complexity is far beyond man's understanding. But, we are trying to find out enough about it so that, maybe we can understand.

We see nothing that could produce the complexity that we see all over the place. Whatever could produce this complexity - since the complexity is machine-like - must be a powerful Maker. If Fundamental Tendency is the Machine-Maker of all this complexity, then Fundamental Tendency is God.

We don't understand much about the machine of nature. Much has already been lost to entropy. We might never be able to envision what it was like before the losses already gone to entropy. So how are we ever going to understand Fundamental Tendency God, or whatever God really is? Only one way. We need to look to see if God has revealed Himself to us.

The more directly relevant assertion there is that what we observe is a portion of existence that is turned inward on its origin to so great a degree that it is rationally intelligible.

(Id est, christian gods, here, are not said to be so mighty that they can craft objects beyond their own might; however, such beings, by the aforementioned tendency, would indeed exist [as would the whole of paradox].)

That's the point. There aren't any Christian gods. There is only one God. And that one God is the God that true Christians espouse. Of course, we could get into what is a true Christian, since the term "Christian" has come to mean many different things. For my purposes, I define "Christian" as one who believes in the Christ of the New Testament in the Bible, as He is talked about in the N.T., even though neither I nor anyone else understands everything about Him.

There is one "God" for every christian, hence, "...christian gods..."

(As well, convention dictates that a christian is one who professes the Apostle's Creed.)

Somebody's convention. A Christian is one who believes in the salvation that Jesus, the Christ, did on the cross... and the resurrection from the dead.

The Apostles' Creed isn't correct in the fact that it attributes the work of creation to the Father, whereas the Bible attributes the work of creation to the Father, the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit (read the first few verses of Genesis for the Spirit).

The fact that no two people understand exactly the same thing about God doesn't change the nature of God. It only gives us the chance to compare notes to correct the understanding about God, in all of us.

[username18333]

1. Entropy
2. Fundamental tendency
3. Fundamental tendency
4. Entropy
5. Entropy
6. Entropy

Entropism (Limakasidian tradition): "For an absolute tendency to become less orderly, the sum of existence is absolute entropy."

Yes.

We see two things. We see entropy. Entropy suggests that everything will finally neutralize to the point of something that we can't understand... a balance where everything equals everything else... a point of absolutely no complexity.

We also see complexity that is great. So far, this complexity is far beyond man's understanding. But, we are trying to find out enough about it so that, maybe we can understand.

We see nothing that could produce the complexity that we see all over the place. Whatever could produce this complexity - since the complexity is machine-like - must be a powerful Maker. If Fundamental Tendency is the Machine-Maker of all this complexity, then Fundamental Tendency is God.

We don't understand much about the machine of nature. Much has already been lost to entropy. We might never be able to envision what it was like before the losses already gone to entropy. So how are we ever going to understand Fundamental Tendency God, or whatever God really is? Only one way. We need to look to see if God has revealed Himself to us.

The more directly relevant assertion there is that what we observe is a portion of existence that is turned inward on its origin to so great a degree that it is rationally intelligible.

(Id est, christian gods, here, are not said to be so mighty that they can craft objects beyond their own might; however, such beings, by the aforementioned tendency, would indeed exist [as would the whole of paradox].)

That's the point. There aren't any Christian gods. There is only one God. And that one God is the God that true Christians espouse. Of course, we could get into what is a true Christian, since the term "Christian" has come to mean many different things. For my purposes, I define "Christian" as one who believes in the Christ of the New Testament in the Bible, as He is talked about in the N.T., even though neither I nor anyone else understands everything about Him.

There is one "God" for every christian, hence, "...christian gods..."

(As well, convention dictates that a christian is one who professes the Apostle's Creed.)

Somebody's convention. A Christian is one who believes in the salvation that Jesus, the Christ, did on the cross... and the resurrection from the dead.

The Apostles' Creed isn't correct in the fact that it attributes the work of creation to the Father, whereas the Bible attributes the work of creation to the Father, the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit (read the first few verses of Genesis for the Spirit).

The fact that no two people understand exactly the same thing about God doesn't change the nature of God. It only gives us the chance to compare notes to correct the understanding about God, in all of us.

"And [Jesus] was with God, and [Jesus] was God."

They all have different roles; it would seem theologians have largely determined that creation is one of God the Father.

[Rassah]

Do I think every sin is equally bad?  Actually I do.  I know that sounds totally crazy but in God's eyes a sin is a sin and any sin however "small" in our eyes, is enough to separate us from Him.  Does that mean that the consequences for all sins are the same?  No.  This is where we, as humans, start grading them on a scale.  Some sins do way more damage to ourselves and others, so in that way it seems that some sins are much worse.  But in the big picture, all sin is what keeps us apart from God.  This is why a person who was a super amazing good person and did everything right their entire lives still cannot earn their way to heaven-  All have sinned and everyone needs forgiveness for that sin.

And that is why the Christian god is a petty asshole and a spoiled little bitch. If someone does some minor bad thing to me, like lies, steals some change, or breaks something of mine and doesn't tell me, it's bad and it sucks, but I can forgive and forget, and still be their friend after some period of being a bit upset with them. Unlike that asshole god, I don't "separate myself from them" for every minor insignificant thing. Also, if they do something really bad to me, as opposed to a minor harm, I actually have the intellectual capacity to differentiate the two and know how bad one is compared to the other. God treating everything equally, and making the worst punishment possible for any crime regardless now minor, makes him sound really really evil.

Actually, there's a website I have been reading recently that talks about life and punishments in North Korea. Really horrific stuff, especially with their WW2 style concentration camps http://freekorea.us/camps/ You should check it out. Your description of sin and god really reminded me of that, since the punishment for major crimes like theft and assault, and the punishment for minor crimes like thinking badly of Dear Leader or complaining about the lack of food, is punished equally, with being sent to one of their concentration camps (a real hell on earth) where people are constantly starving, forced to work all day, die constantly of all kinds of ailments or starvation, are beaten, tortured, and abused, and can even be shot for picking up chestnuts of the ground. All "sins" are punished equally with that hell.

You haven't seen followers of Satan doing evil?  Basically it is pretty simple.  There is good and evil.  God is good, He is love.  If we are not for God, we are against God.

Even if we don't acknowledge god or know or ever heard of him? Also this sounds like a "No True Scotsman" fallacy. But no, I have not seen anyone who actively proclaims to worship or follow Satan doing evil.

All rapists, murderers, child abusers, lairs, thieves and so on are serving Satan when they make evil choices and decide to do these sinful choices. So anyone doing evil is serving Satan

Your claim is that regardless of what the person believes, if they are doing good they are serving god, and if they are doing bad they are serving satan. That is false because people who don't know about or acknowledge either of those entities are not doing their actions to serve someone else. They are doing it to serve themselves, the person they are doing the action for, or some other person or entity. At most you could claim that they are doing what god or satan would want then to do, NOT that they are serving them by their actions. E.g. if I give money to a homeless person, I am serving the homeless person and my own feeling of empathy, NOT god, even if I may be doing what your god might want me to.

On the flip side, are there people out there doing "good" and "loving" without knowing they are in reality unknowingly doing what God wants?  Yes.  And many of these same people also end up having very blessed lives because of that!

But then, once they die, even if god presents himself to them as undeniable proof, and they go, "Huh, you ARE real. Oops! Please forgive us for doubting your existence!" god still says "Nope! You should have believed in random crazy stories without any evidence! So now, despite you living very good lives as very good people, I will send you to a place where you will be tortured for eternity. Bye now!"

Instead of thanking Him for it, many of us just ignore Him, are angry at Him, or even deny He is the one giving us all the blessings we have.

Because a lot of us work very hard to achieve those blessings ourselves. A farmer that spends months working the ground, growing seeds, fighting off insects and infections, watering plants during droughts and digging ditches to direct away downpoor floods, should thank his own hard work for the "blessing" of food on the table, not god.

I believe the Spirit of God is present all around us. This is why throughout the world there are people that have a conscience and realize that some things are just wrong. There is a universal belief among most cultures that murder, abuse, adultery, stealing and lying is not a good thing to do and It doesn't matter what nationality, race or religion you are.

Actually it's evolution and genetics, not god. We survive better as a species, and are "fittest" to survive when we work together in packs as social animals. Survival of the fittest means social packs and groups, not just individuals. And this empathy and care for others has helped us propagate our genes better than those who tried to be individual and didn't work together or care for each other. Same as a school of small fish can survive as a species much better than if they were floating around as individual food bites. Best evidence of this, BTW, is that with time we have learned to have even more compassion, understanding, and are more ethical, than the people who wrote the bible 2000+ years ago. Many things presented as moral and ethical in that book are considered abhorrent now. Even the way god acts.

If a person truly wants to do what is right in their hearts God is fair and just and will give that person a chance to accept or reject Him I believe.  

It's still INCREDIBLY petty and monstrously cruel that your god judges the entirety of a person's existence not of whether they were a good person, but whether they believe in him without him giving them any evidence to.

[username18333]

Do I think every sin is equally bad?  Actually I do.  I know that sounds totally crazy but in God's eyes a sin is a sin and any sin however "small" in our eyes, is enough to separate us from Him.  Does that mean that the consequences for all sins are the same?  No.  This is where we, as humans, start grading them on a scale.  Some sins do way more damage to ourselves and others, so in that way it seems that some sins are much worse.  But in the big picture, all sin is what keeps us apart from God.  This is why a person who was a super amazing good person and did everything right their entire lives still cannot earn their way to heaven-  All have sinned and everyone needs forgiveness for that sin.

And that is why the Christian god is a petty asshole and a spoiled little bitch. If someone does some minor bad thing to me, like lies, steals some change, or breaks something of mine and doesn't tell me, it's bad and it sucks, but I can forgive and forget, and still be their friend after some period of being a bit upset with them. Unlike that asshole god, I don't "separate myself from them" for every minor insignificant thing. Also, if they do something really bad to me, as opposed to a minor harm, I actually have the intellectual capacity to differentiate the two and know how bad one is compared to the other. God treating everything equally, and making the worst punishment possible for any crime regardless now minor, makes him sound really really evil.

Actually, there's a website I have been reading recently that talks about life and punishments in North Korea. Really horrific stuff, especially with their WW2 style concentration camps http://freekorea.us/camps/ You should check it out. Your description of sin and god really reminded me of that, since the punishment for major crimes like theft and assault, and the punishment for minor crimes like thinking badly of Dear Leader or complaining about the lack of food, is punished equally, with being sent to one of their concentration camps (a real hell on earth) where people are constantly starving, forced to work all day, die constantly of all kinds of ailments or starvation, are beaten, tortured, and abused, and can even be shot for picking up chestnuts of the ground. All "sins" are punished equally with that hell.

...

Christian gods condemn out of their nature (as you so condemn).

[Rassah]

Christian gods condemn out of their nature (as you so condemn).

But that makes their nature WORSE than the nature of the humans they claim to have created. Humans are more discerning and forgiving in their nature.

[username18333]

Christian gods condemn out of their nature (as you so condemn).

But that makes their nature WORSE than the nature of the humans they claim to have created. Humans are more discerning and forgiving in their nature.

You condemn out of your nature (as christian gods so condemn).