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Author Topic: [SDC] ShadowCash | Welcome to the UMBRA  (Read 1288969 times)
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cypherpunkrock
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November 17, 2014, 04:22:19 PM
Last edit: November 17, 2014, 04:47:28 PM by cypherpunkrock
 #2241

So, I just went through the web page, and read through twenty+ pages of this thread, and can not figure out what sdc is promising in terms of "zk". If you could excuse me for my laziness for not digging deeper, could someone respond to three quick questions?

1. With the beta that is being tested now, are the devs planning on implementing Zerocash, Zerocoin, or something else?
2. If Zerocash, how do you set up the security parameters? This requires trusted third parties.
3. If Zerocoin, how do you set up the security parameters? Do you use RSA UFOs? If so, how where these generated, and what is their bit length?

Thanks.

hi,

shadow simply has zk-snarks and ring signatures and has its own built-in which doesnt need 3rd party and has nothing similar to zerocash, etc.

A real (not vaporware), working, ZK implementation with ring signatures

sdc dev and whitepaper will explain it in details...

by the way...welcome on board guys....nice to have new bloods here

Thanks for throwing out a clue on how SDC handles the zerocoin initial seeding parameters issue.  This is the first and number one question to ask when a coin claims they are the first to implement zerocoin.  SDC has done an excellent job with it's website and OP so it's a pity there aren't a couple lines of explanation to address the seeding issue on everyone's mind.   There's plenty of discussion on Anoncoin's thread about Gnosis' approach.  In contrast, there's no mention of handling the initial seed parameters with Zerovert and the info on this coin is so scant it smells like scam.



Info is in the OP, there's plenty of infographics that break down the project. SDC has never claimed to implement zerocoin or zerocash.

To answer the question: Shadow is not using zerocoin or zerocash.. its a unique approach to achieve anonymity that uses dual-key stealth addresses, unique ring signatures and non-interactive zero knowledge proofs. Not one line of code is shared with zerocoin/zerocash and shadowcash so it doesn't share the trust issues associated with ZC. One needs to look at Shadowcash as a unique protocol; a first of it's kind not associated with any prior work.

A short explanation taken from IRC:

"@SDCDev: only really SDC -> SDC is traceable.. SDC -> Shadow creates an anonymous output, and Shadow -> SDC redeems an anonymous output, but in order to make it anonymous, you need to use a certain number of rings.. we use ring signatures which are then turned into a proof (zk), so its similar to cryptonote, except without sending the whole signature."

The attached graphic explains the function of each property related to the protocol. This is meant to be an brief infographic overview of the methods used to achieve anonymity. It's not a whitepaper and as stated in the infographic a detailed whitepaper is in the works that should be released shorty. The devs here are working their butts off to push the envelop of what's possible so excuse them while they make time to document everything correctly before releasing a whitepaper. Devs are already making improvements to the model to automate everything based on feedback from testing.

https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F2XTQhYF.jpg&t=546&c=FReoKtrmHHKDDw
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00Smurf
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November 17, 2014, 04:23:40 PM
 #2242

Price going up.
0.00032525

whether to reach
0.00078 ?

if zk snarks is realeased and flaws can be quickly fixed we are talking .1 not .00078

Can't guarantee for the 0.1,  but i think the technology is gonna work Smiley.

0.00078 have ANC who never update anything in almost 1.5 year, coins stucked at exchanges,
nothing is working there. Only good is wiki what lunokhod made, and promises from devs!

SDC could/should reach 0.05 in few months, in my opinion.

I agree. And I am still blown away by the anc tweet. What a bunch of awesome dudes!

The anc guys are a good group.
AnonCoinTwitter
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November 17, 2014, 04:35:50 PM
 #2243

Price going up.
0.00032525

whether to reach
0.00078 ?

if zk snarks is realeased and flaws can be quickly fixed we are talking .1 not .00078

Can't guarantee for the 0.1,  but i think the technology is gonna work Smiley.

0.00078 have ANC who never update anything in almost 1.5 year, coins stucked at exchanges,
nothing is working there. Only good is wiki what lunokhod made, and promises from devs!

SDC could/should reach 0.05 in few months, in my opinion.

I agree. And I am still blown away by the anc tweet. What a bunch of awesome dudes!

The anc guys are a good group.

Thanks. My philosophy is that it is counterproductive to attack the competition with FUD. Instead I prefer to diversify and invest in multiple promising technologies.  I don't think anyone has a crystal ball to know exactly which investments will work out as panned.  Variance can be reduced be investing in multiple coins.

I still believe in asking legitimate questions (as some other ANC investors are doing now, so please be nice to them as well).  As of right now SDC looks VERY promising to me, but like others I hope the white paper will answer some more technical questions.

Great work on delivering SDC dev team! Please understand that many ANC investors were burned by false deadlines/delays from the ANC dev team. Don't necessarily assume their questions are meant to attack SDC. My opinion is that many ANC investors (and more) will come to SDC soon, but they will be cautious until they become well informed.

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November 17, 2014, 04:44:04 PM
 #2244

Price going up.
0.00032525

whether to reach
0.00078 ?

if zk snarks is realeased and flaws can be quickly fixed we are talking .1 not .00078

Can't guarantee for the 0.1,  but i think the technology is gonna work Smiley.

0.00078 have ANC who never update anything in almost 1.5 year, coins stucked at exchanges,
nothing is working there. Only good is wiki what lunokhod made, and promises from devs!

SDC could/should reach 0.05 in few months, in my opinion.

I agree. And I am still blown away by the anc tweet. What a bunch of awesome dudes!

The anc guys are a good group.

Thanks. My philosophy is that it is counterproductive to attack the competition with FUD. Instead I prefer to diversify and invest in multiple promising technologies.  I don't think anyone has a crystal ball to know exactly which investments will work out as panned.  Variance can be reduced be investing in multiple coins.

I still believe in asking legitimate questions (as some other ANC investors are doing now, so please be nice to them as well).  As of right now SDC looks VERY promising to me, but like others I hope the white paper will answer some more technical questions.

Great work on delivering SDC dev team! Please understand that many ANC investors were burned by false deadlines/delays from the ANC dev team. Don't necessarily assume their questions are meant to attack SDC. My opinion is that many ANC investors (and more) will come to SDC soon, but they will be cautious until they become well informed.

Thanks for the fairplay. All the best, and i'm sure the SDC team will do its best to answer your questions and all the others once they'll be fully done with it.
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November 17, 2014, 04:46:26 PM
Last edit: November 17, 2014, 05:07:06 PM by LongAndShort
 #2245

So, I just went through the web page, and read through twenty+ pages of this thread, and can not figure out what sdc is promising in terms of "zk". If you could excuse me for my laziness for not digging deeper, could someone respond to three quick questions?

1. With the beta that is being tested now, are the devs planning on implementing Zerocash, Zerocoin, or something else?
2. If Zerocash, how do you set up the security parameters? This requires trusted third parties.
3. If Zerocoin, how do you set up the security parameters? Do you use RSA UFOs? If so, how where these generated, and what is their bit length?

Thanks.

hi,

shadow simply has zk-snarks and ring signatures and has its own built-in which doesnt need 3rd party and has nothing similar to zerocash, etc.

A real (not vaporware), working, ZK implementation with ring signatures

sdc dev and whitepaper will explain it in details...

by the way...welcome on board guys....nice to have new bloods here

Thanks for throwing out a clue on how SDC handles the zerocoin initial seeding parameters issue.  This is the first and number one question to ask when a coin claims they are the first to implement zerocoin.  SDC has done an excellent job with it's website and OP so it's a pity there aren't a couple lines of explanation to address the seeding issue on everyone's mind.   There's plenty of discussion on Anoncoin's thread about Gnosis' approach.  In contrast, there's no mention of handling the initial seed parameters with Zerovert and the info on this coin is so scant it smells like scam.



We have answered it over and over and keep saying "please jump in irc until the white paper is released"! Zerovert have also explained themselves, idk, about 10 times already in a 20 page thread they use rsa modules (still trusted but they have a massive bounty if you crack them) Just as anoncoin wished to use them for a trustless setup (there is no "seed" or trust parameters!.

Honestly i don't know where half of you are getting this information and how you're tieing it to Zero Knowledge but its completely seperate. Proposed anon implementations have many tools they can use to try and achieve an efficient, secure anon transaction (zero proofs, commitment schemes, accumulators)

I personally will start work on the wiki as soon as i get my hands on rynomsters whitepaper i encourage everyone else to help with the FAQ. Untill then not many people here can tell you completely what is implemented because not many people understand exactly what invisible money is! Hell even the devs heads are spinning! Please try and understand that. No one is hyping it yet, people are just excited because many of us have been here for a long time supporting its growth.

The devs are aware of the "education" issue here as we have hammered them for the past 2 months about the problem of people not being educated on the topics. They have chosen to mainly pump out the tech. But they will now start answering your questions. Now that they have put some final touches and refinements onto their tech. They can explain it without it changing to much and people who don't understand "nerd raging" and "smelling a rat". I'm sure you can understand that sometimes its a double edge sword for them and the stronger supporters. No one is asking you to give anyone money there is no premine and no obligation to buy and support the project. Please take some time to settle in and i'm sure you will catch on fairly quickly. A lot has happened in a short amount of time but the core tech has been the main focus because thats the main asset that sustains heavy pressure from markets and crowds.

So now it can be the other important parts of Shadow that catch up. The education and information phase is no in effect and you will all understand fully the nature of this epic beast. Because i believe people do need to understand better, what this is or they just wont take it seriously!

Personally that is what i've been waiting to work on. But it has been impossible because i never wanted to lead anyone astray with misinformation so most of us have waited until we have the final spec sheet.. I'm sure you can understand and appreciate how responsible that is of the Shadow community? But i can understand why it may look dodgy to new commers arriving right now because the price is spiking.
We have said and will say it again, please step into irc until the white paper is released.  I believe you may feel more satisfied if you do but if you don't want to thats fine but please be patient and wait on the white paper and dev responses. Please understand, they have been extremely busy the past 4 months to produce so much amazing tech and remain relevant with their many industry firsts. Allowing the long time supporters to celebrate a bit is not unreasonable.

1: Shadows invisible money will be called "Shadow" it is not called "zerocoin" Shadow is not minted in the same fashion as zerocoin.
2: There is no zerocoin implementation here, it is not zerocoin at all!
3: Shadow uses ZK= Zero Knowledge proofs that do not require a seed or a trusted setup parameter.
4: There is no accumulator, accumulator moduli (rsa UFO) there is ring signatures which create a zero knowledge proof. (no need for a trusted setup parameter)

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November 17, 2014, 04:56:44 PM
 #2246

So, I just went through the web page, and read through twenty+ pages of this thread, and can not figure out what sdc is promising in terms of "zk". If you could excuse me for my laziness for not digging deeper, could someone respond to three quick questions?

1. With the beta that is being tested now, are the devs planning on implementing Zerocash, Zerocoin, or something else?
2. If Zerocash, how do you set up the security parameters? This requires trusted third parties.
3. If Zerocoin, how do you set up the security parameters? Do you use RSA UFOs? If so, how where these generated, and what is their bit length?

Thanks.

hi,

shadow simply has zk-snarks and ring signatures and has its own built-in which doesnt need 3rd party and has nothing similar to zerocash, etc.

A real (not vaporware), working, ZK implementation with ring signatures

sdc dev and whitepaper will explain it in details...

by the way...welcome on board guys....nice to have new bloods here

Thanks for throwing out a clue on how SDC handles the zerocoin initial seeding parameters issue.  This is the first and number one question to ask when a coin claims they are the first to implement zerocoin.  SDC has done an excellent job with it's website and OP so it's a pity there aren't a couple lines of explanation to address the seeding issue on everyone's mind.   There's plenty of discussion on Anoncoin's thread about Gnosis' approach.  In contrast, there's no mention of handling the initial seed parameters with Zerovert and the info on this coin is so scant it smells like scam.



We have answered it over and over and keep saying "please jump in irc until the white paper is released"! Zerovert have also explained themselves, idk, about 10 times already in a 20 page thread they use rsa modules (still trusted but they have a massive bounty if you crack them) Just as anoncoin wished to use them for a trustless setup (there is no "seed" or trust parameters!.

Honestly i don't know where half of you are getting this information and how you're tieing it to Zero Knowledge but its completely seperate. Proposed anon implementations have many tools they can use to try and achieve an efficient, secure anon transaction (zero proofs, commitment schemes, accumulators)

I personally will start work on the wiki as soon as i get my hands on rynomsters whitepaper i encourage everyone else to help with the FAQ. Untill then not many people here can tell you completely what is implemented because not many people understand exactly what invisible money is! Hell even the devs heads are spinning! Please try and understand that. No one is hyping it yet, people are just excited because many of us have been here for a long time supporting its growth.

The devs are aware of the "education" issue here as we have hammered them for the past 2 months about the problem of people not being educated on the topics. They have chosen to mainly pump out the tech. But they will now start answering your questions because now they actually have put some final touches and refinements onto their tech and can explain it without it changing to much and people who don't understand "nerd raging" and "smelling a rat". I'm sure you can understand sometimes its a double edge sword for them and the stronger supporters. No one is asking you to give anyone money there is no premine and no obligation to buy and support the project. Please take some time to settle in and i'm sure you will catch on fairly quickly.

We have said and will say it again, please step into irc until the white paper is released.  I believe you may feel more satisfied if you do but if you don't want to thats fine but please be patient and wait on the white paper and dev responses. Please understand, they have been extremely busy the past 4 months to produce so much amazing tech and remain relevant with their many industry firsts. Allowing the long time supporters to celebrate a bit is not unreasonable.

1: Shadows invisible money will be called "Shadow" it is not called "zerocoin" Shadow is not minted in the same fashion as zerocoin.
2: There is no zerocoin implementation here, it is not zerocoin at all!
3: Shadow uses ZK= Zero Knowledge proofs that do not require a seed or a trusted setup parameter.
4: There is no accumulator, accumulator moduli (rsa UFO) there is ring signatures which create a zero knowledge proof. (no need for a trusted setup parameter)



+1. My respect to You


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OATH

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CryptoChronic
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November 17, 2014, 04:57:46 PM
 #2247


Gonna have to try harder, your terrible at fudding, Its well known that Ryno was hire just to help Cinni. He was never the lead dev, some work was outsourced to him from cinni. And nice new topic started by yourself! Roll Eyes
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November 17, 2014, 04:58:41 PM
 #2248

So, I just went through the web page, and read through twenty+ pages of this thread, and can not figure out what sdc is promising in terms of "zk". If you could excuse me for my laziness for not digging deeper, could someone respond to three quick questions?

1. With the beta that is being tested now, are the devs planning on implementing Zerocash, Zerocoin, or something else?
2. If Zerocash, how do you set up the security parameters? This requires trusted third parties.
3. If Zerocoin, how do you set up the security parameters? Do you use RSA UFOs? If so, how where these generated, and what is their bit length?

Thanks.

hi,

shadow simply has zk-snarks and ring signatures and has its own built-in which doesnt need 3rd party and has nothing similar to zerocash, etc.

A real (not vaporware), working, ZK implementation with ring signatures

sdc dev and whitepaper will explain it in details...

by the way...welcome on board guys....nice to have new bloods here

Thanks for throwing out a clue on how SDC handles the zerocoin initial seeding parameters issue.  This is the first and number one question to ask when a coin claims they are the first to implement zerocoin.  SDC has done an excellent job with it's website and OP so it's a pity there aren't a couple lines of explanation to address the seeding issue on everyone's mind.   There's plenty of discussion on Anoncoin's thread about Gnosis' approach.  In contrast, there's no mention of handling the initial seed parameters with Zerovert and the info on this coin is so scant it smells like scam.



We have answered it over and over and keep saying "please jump in irc until the white paper is released"! Zerovert have also explained themselves, idk, about 10 times already in a 20 page thread they use rsa modules (still trusted but they have a massive bounty if you crack them) Just as anoncoin wished to use them for a trustless setup (there is no "seed" or trust parameters!.

Honestly i don't know where half of you are getting this information and how you're tieing it to Zero Knowledge but its completely seperate. Proposed anon implementations have many tools they can use to try and achieve an efficient, secure anon transaction (zero proofs, commitment schemes, accumulators)

I personally will start work on the wiki as soon as i get my hands on rynomsters whitepaper i encourage everyone else to help with the FAQ. Untill then not many people here can tell you completely what is implemented because not many people understand exactly what invisible money is! Hell even the devs heads are spinning! Please try and understand that. No one is hyping it yet, people are just excited because many of us have been here for a long time supporting its growth.

The devs are aware of the "education" issue here as we have hammered them for the past 2 months about the problem of people not being educated on the topics. They have chosen to mainly pump out the tech. But they will now start answering your questions because now they actually have put some final touches and refinements onto their tech and can explain it without it changing to much and people who don't understand "nerd raging" and "smelling a rat". I'm sure you can understand sometimes its a double edge sword for them and the stronger supporters. No one is asking you to give anyone money there is no premine and no obligation to buy and support the project. Please take some time to settle in and i'm sure you will catch on fairly quickly.

We have said and will say it again, please step into irc until the white paper is released.  I believe you may feel more satisfied if you do but if you don't want to thats fine but please be patient and wait on the white paper and dev responses. Please understand, they have been extremely busy the past 4 months to produce so much amazing tech and remain relevant with their many industry firsts. Allowing the long time supporters to celebrate a bit is not unreasonable.

1: Shadows invisible money will be called "Shadow" it is not called "zerocoin" Shadow is not minted in the same fashion as zerocoin.
2: There is no zerocoin implementation here, it is not zerocoin at all!
3: Shadow uses ZK= Zero Knowledge proofs that do not require a seed or a trusted setup parameter.
4: There is no accumulator, accumulator moduli (rsa UFO) there is ring signatures which create a zero knowledge proof. (no need for a trusted setup parameter)



Always a pleasure reading posts from Longandshort

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November 17, 2014, 05:00:47 PM
 #2249

So, I just went through the web page, and read through twenty+ pages of this thread, and can not figure out what sdc is promising in terms of "zk". If you could excuse me for my laziness for not digging deeper, could someone respond to three quick questions?

1. With the beta that is being tested now, are the devs planning on implementing Zerocash, Zerocoin, or something else?
2. If Zerocash, how do you set up the security parameters? This requires trusted third parties.
3. If Zerocoin, how do you set up the security parameters? Do you use RSA UFOs? If so, how where these generated, and what is their bit length?

Thanks.

hi,

shadow simply has zk-snarks and ring signatures and has its own built-in which doesnt need 3rd party and has nothing similar to zerocash, etc.

A real (not vaporware), working, ZK implementation with ring signatures

sdc dev and whitepaper will explain it in details...

by the way...welcome on board guys....nice to have new bloods here

Thanks for throwing out a clue on how SDC handles the zerocoin initial seeding parameters issue.  This is the first and number one question to ask when a coin claims they are the first to implement zerocoin.  SDC has done an excellent job with it's website and OP so it's a pity there aren't a couple lines of explanation to address the seeding issue on everyone's mind.   There's plenty of discussion on Anoncoin's thread about Gnosis' approach.  In contrast, there's no mention of handling the initial seed parameters with Zerovert and the info on this coin is so scant it smells like scam.



We have answered it over and over and keep saying "please jump in irc until the white paper is released"! Zerovert have also explained themselves, idk, about 10 times already in a 20 page thread they use rsa modules (still trusted but they have a massive bounty if you crack them) Just as anoncoin wished to use them for a trustless setup (there is no "seed" or trust parameters!.

Honestly i don't know where half of you are getting this information and how you're tieing it to Zero Knowledge but its completely seperate. Proposed anon implementations have many tools they can use to try and achieve an efficient, secure anon transaction (zero proofs, commitment schemes, accumulators)

I personally will start work on the wiki as soon as i get my hands on rynomsters whitepaper i encourage everyone else to help with the FAQ. Untill then not many people here can tell you completely what is implemented because not many people understand exactly what invisible money is! Hell even the devs heads are spinning! Please try and understand that. No one is hyping it yet, people are just excited because many of us have been here for a long time supporting its growth.

The devs are aware of the "education" issue here as we have hammered them for the past 2 months about the problem of people not being educated on the topics. They have chosen to mainly pump out the tech. But they will now start answering your questions because now they actually have put some final touches and refinements onto their tech and can explain it without it changing to much and people who don't understand "nerd raging" and "smelling a rat". I'm sure you can understand sometimes its a double edge sword for them and the stronger supporters. No one is asking you to give anyone money there is no premine and no obligation to buy and support the project. Please take some time to settle in and i'm sure you will catch on fairly quickly.

We have said and will say it again, please step into irc until the white paper is released.  I believe you may feel more satisfied if you do but if you don't want to thats fine but please be patient and wait on the white paper and dev responses. Please understand, they have been extremely busy the past 4 months to produce so much amazing tech and remain relevant with their many industry firsts. Allowing the long time supporters to celebrate a bit is not unreasonable.

1: Shadows invisible money will be called "Shadow" it is not called "zerocoin" Shadow is not minted in the same fashion as zerocoin.
2: There is no zerocoin implementation here, it is not zerocoin at all!
3: Shadow uses ZK= Zero Knowledge proofs that do not require a seed or a trusted setup parameter.
4: There is no accumulator, accumulator moduli (rsa UFO) there is ring signatures which create a zero knowledge proof. (no need for a trusted setup parameter)



Always a pleasure reading posts from Longandshort


We miss you on IRC Longandshort.
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November 17, 2014, 05:47:47 PM
 #2250

when the testnet implementation is going live? there is any ETA?
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November 17, 2014, 05:50:19 PM
 #2251

when the testnet implementation is going live? there is any ETA?

welcome chinchs join us in IRC #shadowcash the testing is happening right now
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November 17, 2014, 07:10:42 PM
 #2252

awesome talks in IRC, team is very helpful
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November 17, 2014, 07:47:18 PM
 #2253

when the testnet implementation is going live? there is any ETA?

welcome chinchs join us in IRC #shadowcash the testing is happening right now

Testing is actually on #shadowtest
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November 17, 2014, 08:31:19 PM
 #2254

shadow is about to be sitting with the big players soon we will have a cap higher than DARK
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November 17, 2014, 08:49:11 PM
 #2255

when the testnet implementation is going live? there is any ETA?

welcome chinchs join us in IRC #shadowcash the testing is happening right now

Testing is actually on #shadowtest
Thx
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November 17, 2014, 09:10:56 PM
 #2256

I think it is going to take some time for people to figure out how big this is. There should be a big pr push/investment behind this too to spread awareness.

"the destruction of privacy widens the existing power imbalance between the ruling factions and everyone else" -- Julian Assange
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November 17, 2014, 09:30:03 PM
 #2257

I think it is going to take some time for people to figure out how big this is. There should be a big pr push/investment behind this too to spread awareness.

Its in the works.

Feel free to donate Smiley

http://shadowhangout.com/topic/74/new-branding-wallet-logo-icons-visuals-infographics-media/12

Just Nao Tomori and Bitcoin ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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November 17, 2014, 09:36:17 PM
 #2258

I think it is going to take some time for people to figure out how big this is. There should be a big pr push/investment behind this too to spread awareness.

Once the whitepaper and official announcement is out, things are gonna change.
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November 17, 2014, 09:47:25 PM
 #2259

after a lot of work today, ShadowTalk is finally in v2  Smiley


ShadowTalk v2

Ask your questions about the testing and ShadowSendv2 in this new category : http://shadowtalk.org/category/36/shadowsend-v2-testnet

The forum was slow so i have updated the server, and it's now improved in every way.

Don't hesitate to put feedback in the appropriate category: http://shadowtalk.org/category/16/feedback

Quote
I would be happy to receive some donations to pay the server (& the work) - (ShCEPkbdix9qBjJ6TNNatjA7YU8PAHq2PJ)

Don't forget crz- and his beautiful design too (Sd9w1zqFhC5p2Q6Sf3hUXZ2zMRt3gU1CQr)

For the other currency addresses : http://shadowtalk.org/topic/11/donation-list-of-donation-addresses

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.Private  ...
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LongAndShort
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November 17, 2014, 10:08:57 PM
 #2260

after a lot of work today, ShadowTalk is finally in v2  Smiley


ShadowTalk v2

Ask your questions about the testing and ShadowSendv2 in this new category : http://shadowtalk.org/category/36/shadowsend-v2-testnet

The forum was slow so i have updated the server, and it's now improved in every way.

Don't hesitate to put feedback in the appropriate category: http://shadowtalk.org/category/16/feedback

Quote
I would be happy to receive some donations to pay the server (& the work) - (ShCEPkbdix9qBjJ6TNNatjA7YU8PAHq2PJ)

Don't forget crz- and his beautiful design too (Sd9w1zqFhC5p2Q6Sf3hUXZ2zMRt3gU1CQr)

For the other currency addresses : http://shadowtalk.org/topic/11/donation-list-of-donation-addresses

ShadowTalk v2 haha cool upgrade Smiley
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