[XMR] Monero Speculation

[bitebits]

So in a matter of 45 minutes there is wild 35% increase and decrease of the price.

Can someone who trades explain what the benefit of such pump during the simultaneous dumping is? If the buyer wants to accumulate or defend a certain price level, why don't just buy anything below 0.0027 during the dumps? Why drive the price up all the way to 0.0032, what is the benefit?

Margin call the shorter.

I could not get my head around it. Thanks.

So basically the buyer keeps buying the price up till the shorter gets margin called -> price spikes even more, potentially causing other shorters to get margin called as well (domino effect). And to prevent that the shorter has been dumping into the buyer. Correct?

[klee]

So in a matter of 45 minutes there is wild 35% increase and decrease of the price.

Can someone who trades explain what the benefit of such pump during the simultaneous dumping is? If the buyer wants to accumulate or defend a certain price level, why don't just buy anything below 0.0027 during the dumps? Why drive the price up all the way to 0.0032, what is the benefit?

Margin call the shorter.

I could not get my head around it. Thanks.

So basically the buyer keeps buying the price up till the shorter gets margin called -> price spikes even more. And to prevent that the shorter has been dumping into the buyer. Correct?

Actually it is hard to estimate what really happened - it all begun with a 40k ask wall.
It started to get eaten and when it was 30k (after it moved price a couple of times) a same size bid appeared close to it.

The ask was removed and immediately dumped to the bid.

Then probably the bullwhale got pissed off and started to push aggressively higher - some bids/walls that appeared may were in fact stoplosses/margin calls from other traders. Fact is price got at around 32k and then a big dump happened probably to stop the hunt for stops/margin calls.

I don't remember if it was in the 1st or 2n dump but a big 70k ask appeared for seconds, then removed and then got dumped again.

Point is that trading/investing has not, as most people think, to do about an asset but more about as a means to 'steal' money from others.

The assets are just vehicles for market makers/ whales.

They give shit about fundamentals.

[MrGood]

In a nutshell:-

Someone stormed into the operating theater, grabbed a pair of defibrillators and then shouted - "STAND BACK!" - before unleashing a double dose of 80000 volts to an otherwise sleeping patient. Following this he probably then turned to the startled chief surgeon and quietly said something along the lines of - "that should do it" - before walking out with a bottle of whiskey in his hand.

The net result is that the order-book has been rebooted.

0.003 is the new 0.001.

This is the new XMR.

[phibay]

I have seen this coin going around for a while. If I'm not mistaken it is a coin from Morocco ? If anyone want to sell some XMR at 5% below market please let me know , thanks.

[iCEBREAKER]

Point is that trading/investing has not, as most people think, to do about an asset but more about as a means to 'steal' money from others

Traders win or lose money from/to each other.  They don't 'steal' it anymore than a champion poker player does.

It's all a means to the ends of the market's invisible hand, so ethically there's no problem.

The idea of a pissed off, dumped-upon bullwhale hunting for stops and margin calls is hilarious and probably accurate.   

[nioc]

I have seen this coin going around for a while. If I'm not mistaken it is a coin from Morocco ? If anyone want to sell some XMR at 5% below market please let me know , thanks.

Actually it's from planet Earth although other planets will soon be included in the network.

I don't normally sell but at 500% above market I might be tempted.

[TrueCryptonaire]

I have seen this coin going around for a while. If I'm not mistaken it is a coin from Morocco ? If anyone want to sell some XMR at 5% below market please let me know , thanks.

You made my evening.  

[TrueCryptonaire]

So in a matter of 45 minutes there is wild 35% increase and decrease of the price.

Can someone who trades explain what the benefit of such pump during the simultaneous dumping is? If the buyer wants to accumulate or defend a certain price level, why don't just buy anything below 0.0027 during the dumps? Why drive the price up all the way to 0.0032, what is the benefit?

Margin call the shorter.

I could not get my head around it. Thanks.

So basically the buyer keeps buying the price up till the shorter gets margin called -> price spikes even more. And to prevent that the shorter has been dumping into the buyer. Correct?

Actually it is hard to estimate what really happened - it all begun with a 40k ask wall.
It started to get eaten and when it was 30k (after it moved price a couple of times) a same size bid appeared close to it.

The ask was removed and immediately dumped to the bid.

Then probably the bullwhale got pissed off and started to push aggressively higher - some bids/walls that appeared may were in fact stoplosses/margin calls from other traders. Fact is price got at around 32k and then a big dump happened probably to stop the hunt for stops/margin calls.

I don't remember if it was in the 1st or 2n dump but a big 70k ask appeared for seconds, then removed and then got dumped again.

Point is that trading/investing has not, as most people think, to do about an asset but more about as a means to 'steal' money from others.

The assets are just vehicles for market makers/ whales.

They give shit about fundamentals.

I agree with you when you think about hunting for leveraged positions. It is basically hunting your fellows who are in a more vulnerable position (leveraged). At some point obviously there will be a repayment of such deed mastered by the Great Architect of the Universe.
On the other hand, if you are trading with any commodity speculating simple supple vs. demand it is actually pretty Biblical way of making money. In the Torah Yosef had an information of upcoming famine in days of great prosperity and he stored wheat for coming not-so-good days and was able to buy all the real estates in Egypt, a lot of precious metals all over etc.

[dnaleor]

If someone wants to have up to date USDXMR charts, you can now check bit.ly/xmrcharts !
Data: poloniex for XMRBTC and bitcoinaverage for BTCUSD

[klee]

If someone wants to have up to date USDXMR charts, you can now check bit.ly/xmrcharts !
Data: poloniex for XMRBTC and bitcoinaverage for BTCUSD

Wow extremely useful thank you!

[generalizethis]

I was listening to a TEDtalks on spreading ideas and the presenter mentioned two things that reminded me of the recent GUI discussion: Otaku and remarkable. I believe Monero's core community is Otaku in regards with privacy and the GUI is the remarkable that can get people to pull off the road and look at the purple cow (min 6:30).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBIVlM435Zg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otaku (min 10:30)

[dnaleor]

If someone wants to have up to date USDXMR charts, you can now check bit.ly/xmrcharts !
Data: poloniex for XMRBTC and bitcoinaverage for BTCUSD

Wow extremely useful thank you!

I should have some spreadsheet somewhere with the early (pre poloniex) data... If I find it, I'll add that as well.

[Drhiggins]

If someone wants to have up to date USDXMR charts, you can now check bit.ly/xmrcharts !
Data: poloniex for XMRBTC and bitcoinaverage for BTCUSD

Now if we can just get back to the opening days of Monero and the price on 6/21/14 of $5.07

[luigi1111]

If someone wants to have up to date USDXMR charts, you can now check bit.ly/xmrcharts !
Data: poloniex for XMRBTC and bitcoinaverage for BTCUSD

Now if we can just get back to the opening days of Monero and the price on 6/21/14 of $5.07

That's a nice starting point to end up at.

^That makes so much sense.

[klee]

I have a theory that the market is trying to find if a serious challenger to Bitcoin's 1st place exists.

It tried this in the past with Ripple and then ETH. Ripple failed at 700m or close to 1bn market cap, can't remember correctly.

Ethereum seems to have failed to, around 950m usd.

Bitcoin got serious after it broke that threshold.

IMO if a coin surpasses this barrier for good (eg 1.2bn) it will replace Bitcoin sooner than most think - maybe in a week or month at most.

I have a feeling that Monero is destined to make the same attempt too.

So I see 1bn market cap as the ultimate target & resistance.

I would sell at 900-950m and wait to see what happens.

Could be wrong of course - this is my gut speaking.

[klee]

Funny thing is that someone might say how is it even possible to replace BTC without a GUI wallet when there are so many projects even better than BTC (second generation coins like ETH, MAID, NXT etc).

Well, the more I think about it the more I am convinced that it is exactly for this reason that XMR is a very serious canditate, even more than them.

Maybe we should postpone the wallet as much as possible. I don't want every god damn nerd in Silicon Valley trying to make applications and shit like this!

I want stealthy, underground, store of value for the elite.

Paper wallet only.

[aminorex]

If I were to lever in crypto, I would do it by borrowing fiat offline.  Rates are nigh zero, and you won't get stopped out, except by your own fear or greed.

Anyhow, there is plenty of short interest in XMR yet, if I am not mistaken, which is nicely bullish.  Active traders should definitely keep some largish tail bets on both sides, just in case of a repeat of this morning's battle, because we haven't seen the end of this drama.  It might be anticlimactic in the end, but it is still on-going.

[aminorex]

I want stealthy, underground, store of value for the elite.
Paper wallet only.

I don't think you can bootstrap to adequate market cap and liquidity to have the kind of low downside volatility required in such a currency market, unless you first have a grass-roots transactional economy (preferrably at low velocity).

I would be very pleased to be proven wrong, however.

[Kramerc]

You guys talking about XMR overtaking BTC makes me think this price is a very good sell.

[klee]

I want stealthy, underground, store of value for the elite.
Paper wallet only.

I don't think you can bootstrap to adequate market cap and liquidity to have the kind of low downside volatility required in such a currency market, unless you first have a grass-roots transactional economy (preferrably at low velocity).

I would be very pleased to be proven wrong, however.

I think of it this way - xmr being something like paying to buy illicit antiquities/paintings and hiding them forever.