[XMR] Monero Speculation

[johnfoss]

THE MONERO MOON (ISSUE 28) IS OUT NOW! Grab a coffee or a beer and kick back for a read. Like, share, and spread the word of Monero as it continues to grow and offer unmatched financial privacy.

https://medium.com/themoneromoon/the-monero-moon-issue-28-307de4b1db15

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[tokeweed]

the legacy proof of work coins did nothing this bull cycle. xmr, litecoin, bch, all terrible performance, dont go anywhere near these legacy coins if you actually care about making money.

monero is great for privacy if you wanna do some hidden transactions but never store your economic energy in xmr, its a terrible store of value!

bitcoin and ethereum did over 3x from the previous highs during the 2017-2018 peak. Accounting for usd inflation monero never even broke its previous all time high from the last cycle.

And since we have entered a bear market monero is gonna go below $50.

I will try to be polite, but like cAPSLOCK I totally disagree.  
Personally Monero has been the best investment I ever made after Bitcoin and a fair amount of the Bitcoin I acquired have been from profit taking on Monero's peaks.  This may not be the case for everyone, of course - but 'storing my economic energy' in it has proved to be very rewarding.

As to a $50 Monero?  Er.. not anytime soon IMO.  It was way under that level ($26) as recently as 2020, but that only proves that today's price is hardly disappointing.  On the contrary, Monero is currently acting bullish and a 75%-plus collapse is unlikely in any near timeframe.

Since you seem very confident, may I ask within what amount of time do you expect Monero to be under $50?

But relative to the market, Monero actually is very disappointing.  If you’re an XMR maxi and everything you have is in XMR, I don’t think you’ve out performed the market that much and that’s if you’ve even out performed the market.  I mean sure ‘the market’ has new coins being listed during the bullish phases and their all pumped to bloated market shares.  Use XMR/BTC as the core basis then.  It’s really an ugly chart for the XMR holder tbh.

[Diamond Rolex]

Over this year we will see bitcoin do a 80% drop which happens every cycle. People continue to post "this time is different" , heard that meme too many times in the past.

Elon musk already bought, NFTs selling for absurd prices. El Salvador bought.  Is there another worlds richest guy that can buy next?

People are coping, we are in a bear market, btc will go under 15k, ethereum under 500. I've seen this same thing happen before, yah this cycle had a 2nd bull trap but we are in bear season now.

Also amount of transactions doesn't mean the value actually go up. Bitcoin transitioned from peer to peer cash to a store of value.

To the guy that said monero made a new all time high this cycle, ya it did in usd number but the actual value all time high is less when you count all the fiat inflation. The XMR/BTC chart from 2017 till now looks absolutely horrific.

And i hold a fair amount of monero for what it stands for, but reality is that is not a good investment compared to bitcoin and ethereum.

[tokeweed]

^  I’m with you, whoever you are.  I mean let’s be honest.  Just go to the WO thread, go to CT.  People are def coping and I gotta say, it used to annoy the hell out of me.  Lol.   But now not so much.  We have to understand that it takes a while for some people to start being honest with themselves and become more self aware.  But they could also really be selling their bags while trying to make everybody bullish.  Hilarious.  Lmao.  But I guess I could respect that than the people who lie to themselves.

[cAPSLOCK]

I think one of the very worst arguments a person can makes goes like this:

I believe X, but they believe Y therefore they are stupid and I will laugh at them.

The reason it's bad in particular is it not even an argument.  It is just a judgement on people who see things differently.

I am in the camp (to an extent) that you are making fun of and belittling.  I believe this time *IS* different (nuance: I believe every time has been different).  But I also have a LOT of nuance in my beliefs.  If you read what I have posted you would see I have made arguments against S2F for example.

I have publicly said that I think another 80%+ pullback is EXTREMELY unlikely. (Nuance: I accept the reality that I might be wrong and we will see bitcoin go to ~13500). Because this time *IS* different.  The difference is we have a growing number of people who see Bitcoin is a once in a lifetime opportunity, and they will be there to buy it as it goes lower.  They are going to create a floor that is more difficult to breech than past cycles. To go to 13k we will have to cross 30k first.  Nuance: dropping below 30k is a VERY REAL possibility, as it is the next real area of support.

There are billionaires who feel like they missed the best opportunity of a lifetime, and if presented even half of a second chance they will come in.  

I think there just are so few paths that lead to <15k.  Where in the past there was very little to stop an 80-90% pullback.

Another argument that supports that view is we have not increased the amount that we did in past "cycles".  In the past a 90% drop literally followed a 1000x rise.  If you are still counting in "cycles" then you will notice that this was only a 3x rise. so why wouldn't we have a bear that matches? Nuance: or that this bull is actually not over!

I still think the most likely possibility is we see the highs and lows continue to tighten up as we steadily rise.  It takes a LOT more money to move Bitcoin because it represents SO much money now.  Likewise it takes greater effort to drop it as well.

I will also joke about hopium as I express my ideas because I know that I am not a fortune teller and I do not know the future.  There is a non-zero chance that Bitcoin has reached the highest relative value it ever will, and it's all down from here.  Nuance: I think this is particularly unlikely.

Also I have no need to "cope" about anything.  I have been in Bitcoin since 2011.  And I have, for the most part, NEVER SOLD.  The main reason for this is I am just not a trader.  If I were I might be much more wealthy, but it is more likely I would have less than I have now.  Nuance: I have nothing to cope with here because I have accepted 80+% drops as a significant possibility for over a decade and even survived a few of them.

Monero is the only other coin I hold.  And it is a slave to bitcoin.  The chances of it flipping bitcoin as are the generally popular narratives out there are fairly outlandish in my opinion.  Nuance: I am not belittling those with whom I disagree about this.  But I continue to hold some value in Monero because I believe it is extremely undervalued, and in time will be worth much more.

To clarify my position, I do not think we go down tons more.. I think it is MOST likely we drop to ~30k at the furthest, and resume a gentle upward grind after that...  But I also see significant possibilities that we breach 30k, or that we get an explosive upswing that resumes the bull portion of this "cycle".  Nuance: I just give each of those scenarios less weight than the first one.

So, we might be in for a long Bitcoin winter where we go under 15k.  Or not.  My money will stay exactly where it is in either case... AND I congratulate those with the balls and foresight to sell close to the top of this bull.  Sometimes I wish I was wired that way, but I am not.  And from my vantage point it has worked out fairly fucking well for me in spite of that.

[tokeweed]

Monero is the only other coin I hold.  And it is a slave to bitcoin.  The chances of it flipping bitcoin as are the generally popular narratives out there are fairly outlandish in my opinion.  Nuance: I am not belittling those with whom I disagree about this.  But I continue to hold some value in Monero because I believe it is extremely undervalued, and in time will be worth much more.

Yup, def no chance XMR goes no. 1 at CMC esp if we look at where it’s at right now.  I had a different opinion tho during 2017.  Lmao.  And it was the reason why I traded most of my BTC for XMR.  I thought the next years would be a slow grinding climb to at least the top 3.  But no...  It never really gained any serious traction unlike ETH.  But ETH tho could do a flippening.  All the stuff  that I thought were real all really didn’t matter.  If you guys have watched enough of Bitcoin Uncensored, you would know what I mean.  Even De Rose himself was saying he doesn’t know if it matters anymore.

And for being undervalued, sure.

[johnfoss]

THE MONERO MOON (ISSUE 29) IS OUT NOW! Grab a coffee or a beer and kick back for a read. Like, share, and spread the word of Monero as it continues to grow and offer unmatched financial privacy.

https://medium.com/themoneromoon/the-monero-moon-issue-29-34ae7f793bfe

[cAPSLOCK]

Anyone out there hear the rumors that might be driving this little rally?

If they are true it will piss me off a little, but will undeniably be good news for Monero... I guess. Lol.

I really do not want to say anything till i verify this some more... I suppose I will go take a gander at reddit.

[tokeweed]

^  No rumors.  It’s just most alts are following what BTC is doing atm...  Everybody seems to be getting bullish.  I won’t lie, I’m getting a bit bullish too.  But gotta hold back, it could just be a dead cat bounce.  I’ll wait for BTC to break out of 45k, make a correction around that level and if it holds and goes up from there, then I’ll be bullish.  For now I’m just looking.

[cAPSLOCK]

^  No rumors.  It’s just most alts are following what BTC is doing atm...  Everybody seems to be getting bullish.  I won’t lie, I’m getting a bit bullish too.  But gotta hold back, it could just be a dead cat bounce.  I’ll wait for BTC to break out of 45k, make a correction around that level and if it holds and goes up from there, then I’ll be bullish.  For now I’m just looking.

I heard a rumor about a particular blow-hard loading up with the intent to pump Monero.  I do not think this rumor is true.  And I also think I found the BS it was based on.  It could be extremely good for XMR price in the short term as this particular clown has a lot of mojo (that he does not deserve at ALL as he is an idiot).  So it's win/win really...  If he was doing this it would fall into the "there is no bad publicity" category, but we also don't want his stink on it.

But I think you are right... this is just a micro alt season.

But we are standing on the threshold of a huge Bitcoin awareness explosion.  It is turning into big news all over the world.  Idiots (like this asshole) will get tied up in NFTs, and a few of those will actually make money, I guess... but that is all part of what we will see.  Most of us went through our "alt period" in our Bitcoin journey, and a few of us degenerates have not let go of THIS particular alt for various reasons.  I know some of us like all kinds of alts... but I am more of a Maxi.  I think Bitcoin is really just about the only thing that matters.  With "just about" being super key there...

The good news is, just like some of us saw Monero and said "Oh, Wow... that actually does something unique and needed", and a lot of folks are going to come to that same conclusion eventually.  Monero is inevitable, really.



xmrig -o 127.0.0.1:18081 -u 49XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX --coin monero --daemon -t 30  <- aiming 15Kh at the network.  One day a block will pop.


Wow... a 54% increase month over month, and XMR has moved into third place in use (at coincards.com) after BTC and ETH with Ethereum having only about 20% more TRANSACTIONAL traffic than Monero in February.

This seems fairly significant to me.  This is a measure of non darknet real world use, with Monero being used in quite a bit!  There are several chains that are having HUGE amounts of traffic as they cram all sorts of ridiculous data (NFTs, game data, etc) on their blockchains.  But these chains (other than ETH) are not being used as a form of money.

I think Bitcoin was wisely designed to do exactly one thing very well.  Smart Contract/Web3/Panopticon chains are force centralizing for foolish, in my opinion, use of their blockchains, but Monero, like Bitcoin has chosen to do exactly ONE THING and do it well.  I have thought since 2014 that Monero will be able to co-exist with Bitcoin as we go forward.  I know some folks think it could topple Bitcoin.  That I think is ignoring that Bitcoin does it's one thing better than Monero. (And vise/versa)

I do find it mind boggling that DOGE is being used more than lightning lol.  I really think the next crop of Bitcoiners will be lightning native, particularly in emerging countries. But I betcha Monero keeps a certain market share.



[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

[tokeweed]

  I know some of us like all kinds of alts... but I am more of a Maxi.  I think Bitcoin is really just about the only thing that matters.  With "just about" being super key there...

I tend to agree.  That’s why it hurts thinking how much I’ve lost in BTC and how much more I would’ve made in USD if I just stayed put and held everything in BTC or ETH even.  Damn...  I mean DOGE would’ve been a better trade than XMR during the bull market.  Lol.  It’s funny cos I really thought 2020 and beyond would be XMR’s time in the sun and be a permanent fixture at top 5 in CMC.  But no, it’s at 47.  

But anyway, from a pure trading perspective, watch out for ETH.  If it doesn’t implode after the hard fork to POS, easy trend up to 10k imho.  Talks going around that it’s def happening this year.

[Hueristic]

But anyway, from a pure trading perspective, watch out for ETH.  If it doesn’t implode after the hard fork to POS, easy trend up to 10k imho.  Talks going around that it’s def happening this year.

Borrowed from jjg.

[cAPSLOCK]

But anyway, from a pure trading perspective, watch out for ETH.  If it doesn’t implode after the hard fork to POS, easy trend up to 10k imho.  Talks going around that it’s def happening this year.

Borrowed from jjg.

I am probably about as anti-ETH as one could possibly be.  That is not to say it might not be a good ROI, as it HAS been.

But ETH, like all big-block projects completely breaks what Satoshi designed.  First of all this is the simple logic: Blockchain databases with several other tech solves the Byzintine General problem and allows a decentralized database.  Once you make a blockchain huge you limit the people who can be nodes.  This centralizes the coin/project leading to things like chain roll-backs and scaling panic.  Sound familiar?  Thing is once you centralize you then have removed the only real reason to use a blockchain.  Now you could just use some high efficiency standard (SQL type) database.

So ETH ends up really only being smoke and mirrors.  And that's not even the worst part.  This decentralized world computer theater paves the road to a system that looks a lot like the current one, but with all the advantages of being centralized and digital.  But because it is centralized the banks will either kill it and issue CDBCs or absorb it INTO a CDBC.

That latter is your payday if you want to invest in ETH.  But it is also t he smallest chance, in my opinion.

Monero, on the other hand, might have problems scaling and remaining decentralized... but it has a shot not to, either by increasing use at a pace tech can keep up, or by 2nd layer scaling.

ETH makes no sense.  

[gembitz]

But anyway, from a pure trading perspective, watch out for ETH.  If it doesn’t implode after the hard fork to POS, easy trend up to 10k imho.  Talks going around that it’s def happening this year.

Borrowed from jjg.

I am probably about as anti-ETH as one could possibly be.  That is not to say it might not be a good ROI, as it HAS been.

But ETH, like all big-block projects completely breaks what Satoshi designed.  First of all this is the simple logic: Blockchain databases with several other tech solves the Byzintine General problem and allows a decentralized database.  Once you make a blockchain huge you limit the people who can be nodes.  This centralizes the coin/project leading to things like chain roll-backs and scaling panic.  Sound familiar?  Thing is once you centralize you then have removed the only real reason to use a blockchain.  Now you could just use some high efficiency standard (SQL type) database.

So ETH ends up really only being smoke and mirrors.  And that's not even the worst part.  This decentralized world computer theater paves the road to a system that looks a lot like the current one, but with all the advantages of being centralized and digital.  But because it is centralized the banks will either kill it and issue CDBCs or absorb it INTO a CDBC.

That latter is your payday if you want to invest in ETH.  But it is also t he smallest chance, in my opinion.

Monero, on the other hand, might have problems scaling and remaining decentralized... but it has a shot not to, either by increasing use at a pace tech can keep up, or by 2nd layer scaling.

ETH makes no sense.  

NFTs coming to \/\/XMR? reeeeeeeeeeeee

[kurious]

(snip...)
And since we have entered a bear market monero is gonna go below $50.

I hope he didn't put his money where his mouth is and go short...

[cAPSLOCK]

(snip...)
And since we have entered a bear market monero is gonna go below $50.

I hope he didn't put his money where his mouth is and go short...

You are a nice guy kurious.  I am not.  I hope he sold his house and shorted it.

[tokeweed]

But anyway, from a pure trading perspective, watch out for ETH.  If it doesn’t implode after the hard fork to POS, easy trend up to 10k imho.  Talks going around that it’s def happening this year.

Borrowed from jjg.

LOL!  Yeah I know it sounds delusional but then again 10k is what...  Just around three times the current price.  And from what I heard it’s really looking like the merging of Ethereum and the beacon chain is going to happen this year.

Does everybody outside the ETH community really think it isn’t happening?

I am probably about as anti-ETH as one could possibly be.  That is not to say it might not be a good ROI, as it HAS been.

But ETH, like all big-block projects completely breaks what Satoshi designed.  First of all this is the simple logic: Blockchain databases with several other tech solves the Byzintine General problem and allows a decentralized database.  Once you make a blockchain huge you limit the people who can be nodes.  This centralizes the coin/project leading to things like chain roll-backs and scaling panic.  Sound familiar?  Thing is once you centralize you then have removed the only real reason to use a blockchain.  Now you could just use some high efficiency standard (SQL type) database.

So ETH ends up really only being smoke and mirrors.  And that's not even the worst part.  This decentralized world computer theater paves the road to a system that looks a lot like the current one, but with all the advantages of being centralized and digital.  But because it is centralized the banks will either kill it and issue CDBCs or absorb it INTO a CDBC.

That latter is your payday if you want to invest in ETH.  But it is also t he smallest chance, in my opinion.

Monero, on the other hand, might have problems scaling and remaining decentralized... but it has a shot not to, either by increasing use at a pace tech can keep up, or by 2nd layer scaling.

ETH makes no sense.  

Here’s what I think...  I think we might have put a premium on ‘decentralization’ and all the idealistic stuff too much.  Giving up some of it is fine for other projects that want to achieve something more than just being ‘digital gold’.  Think about a world with no ETH, or BSC or AVAX.  We’d all be stuck having BBQcoin or Auroracoin.  Lmao.  

And ETH has come to a point where we can say that it’s not going anywhere.  If anything, it could flippen BTC.

*place batman_slap.jpg here*

[cAPSLOCK]

In the US government documents concerning the takedown of the alleged Bitfinex hackers, only one other cryptocurrency is mentioned (as far as I have been able to see).  It is not ETH, Not BCASH.

Guess which one.  Bullish.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-release/file/1470186/download

[tokeweed]

^  A couple of years ago, I’d be really bullish.  But now?  Honestly not so much.  Not with the exchanges so quick to delist coins once they’re pressured by the government.  TPTB even got to binaryFate and it forced him to close XMR.to down.  They got Fluffy in prison.  Sucks...  I’d really prefer XMR to be away from the spot light and just be left alone to grow organically tbh.  XMR is a step up and it needs more time imho.

[cAPSLOCK]

Had more money than the entire market cap of Monero.